Here’s what’s involved in legally immigrating to the United States.

The ongoing debate in an older entry over whether or not illegal immigration is a problem in the United States reminded me of a good infographic I came across the other day that explains what is involved in immigrating legally. This is something a lot of people aren’t aware of and while I did share it on my Facebook account I didn’t get around to posting it here. So I’m correcting that now:

Infographic on legal immigration.

Click to embiggen!

It’s a big graphic so you may need to scroll around a bit to see it all. If you’re using Firefox keep in mind that your browser will auto-shrink the image to fit your screen so you may need to left click on it to make it full size and then scroll around.

At any rate, it shows that, unless you’re a big celebrity or millionaire of some sort, the process of legally immigrating to the United States is both long and has very specific requirements which exclude millions of hopefuls. If you don’t have family already here then your only hope of legally immigrating is if you have a skill set desirable enough for a company to offer you a job that’s also willing to go through the expensive process of sponsoring you. When you’re an engineer or computer programmer that’s less of a problem. When your desired skill set is standing out in a field in triple digit temperatures picking crops for minimum wages then it’s much more of a problem.

Here in the U.S. we are taught in grade school about the inscription on the book the Statue of Liberty holds which reads as follows:

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can recall feeling a special kind of pride at learning this as a child. How cool are we, I used to think, that we’ll take in anyone willing to work hard to realize their dreams. Except that’s not how it works anymore and it hasn’t for a long time.

In short, the fabled story of a poor immigrant coming to the U.S. to start a new life and perhaps realize the American dream is impossible today. There once was a time when that was possible, but those days are long gone now. Unless you’ve got a good reason to be here — family, highly skilled, wealth or fame — you can forget about legally immigrating to the U.S. anytime soon.

103 thoughts on “Here’s what’s involved in legally immigrating to the United States.

  1. As a Brit, living in the States, I can confirm that moving here, legally, and setting up a life here is neigh on impossible. My company was committed to me, my experience and my skillset enough that they brought me over on a specialist staff visa – 3 years initially, with a possibility to extend for 2 more. That was supposed to be it. Fortunately, I met my now wife, we married, and now I’m here under a Greencard, bought a home and starting a family – but it’s been a LONG, and very expensive journey for both me and my company.

  2. Good post, Les. The American Life Raft has been full and is still getting fuller. Time to find new land. Ameriraq?

  3. We have a friend from NZ who has been here about 15 years…I think he JUST got his residency. Until now he was only allowed to stay here because he was married.

  4. This is a good post, and I also shared it on Facebook. The thing is, my husband works in a place where there are many immigrants – mostly from Mexico. The company has gotten in trouble in the past when it was discovered that they hired undocumented immigrants; however, some of these immigrants are here legally. And they are in low end jobs. So they did it somehow.

  5. Yana, I’d be willing to wager they have family here. That is one of the ways to get in legally without being highly skilled.

  6. Les, thank you for posting this. One thing that isn’t really mentioned much is how expensive it is to become a legal resident, even if you are married to a citizen. Heaven help you if there are any complications, because most immigration attorney fees start at about $10,000.

    Because of the expense and difficulties of our immigration system, my husband and I recently agreed to divorce and move on with our lives…certainly not the outcome I would have liked.

    Oh, and remember Neil Sedaka’s song?

  7. I never thought these co-workers had family here, because they take vacation days to visit family in Mexico. But I have limited info. I did hear about one legal immigrant whose wife was undocumented, and it made tax time less favorable than it could have been. This company really wanted these workers, because they are good workers and few citizens will take food service jobs. They let around eight of them go in one day some years ago, when the company got in trouble, but rehired three of them when they got documented. Even in today’s economy, they cannot get the help they need. Many people would rather remain unemployed than do this kind of work, obviously.

  8. Im not sure what to think about this post, are you saying illegal immigration is good? As a teacher I see 7 kids that cant speak English in a class with a teacher while our best students are in a class with 30 students for one teacher. Each student costs approx $30k per year and we aren’t allowed to check to see if they are legal or not. So for me it isn’t a simple case of doing a job nobody else wants.

  9. What I’m trying to do is educate people on just what is involved with legal immigration because all too often the knee-jerk reaction most folks have is that they should “get in line and do it legally.” For a lot of people that’s not an option no matter how much they’d like to do it properly. I’m not saying illegal immigration is good, but it’s certainly understandable given the obstacles in the way for many.

    As for your comments about students, I’m not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that we shouldn’t educate students that may be here illegally? Do you think they’ll just pack up and go home if their kids can’t go to school? What is your alternative?

  10. I didn’t know that schools were not allowed to check on whether children were undocumented immigrants, but that doesn’t surprise me. Immigration laws are not strictly enforced, and there are good reasons for that. It is not in the interest of American business/capitalism to enforce immigration laws on immigrants who are otherwise law-abiding. I personally don’t care whether an immigrant is documented or not, but I do care if I have to come in contact with real criminals who have a negative effect on my life. It is my understanding that immigration law is civil law, and for good reason.

  11. Immigration laws need to be even harder. The “good old days once upon a time long ago” which you speak of also included a time when the population was smaller, the economy was stronger, and work was more readily available. Right now, the cost of supporting illegal immigrants in this country is a significant part of state budgets. Any immigrant who’s not here legally is automatically a criminal because they’re breaking a major law that SHOULD be SEVERELY enforced. We need to ensure the quality of life and employment opportunities needed by natural born citizens. Illegals don’t just take crop picking jobs, they take other jobs that “people actually want.” So screw the illegals, they need to be sent back where they belong. They don’t like their country, then they should stay there and work hard to fix what’s wrong with it instead of coming here and lowering quality of life for everyone here. Try living in Los Angeles or any “sanctuary city” where there’s a surplus of illegal immigrants. That’ll shift ANYONE’s ideas about who should be allowed to immigrate and who shouldn’t.

  12. I see your point about getting in line. My point about the students was to show that illegal immigrants who don’t pay into the tax system can still use tax money to educate their kids. This leaves less money to educate the legal residents who do pay taxes. So yes, I’m saying we shouldn’t educate people that are here illegally.

  13. Danny, we already have “hard” enough immigration laws. Why do you suppose these laws are irregularly enforced now? Hint: It isn’t because of your or my opinion.

    Illegal immigration is breaking a “major law”? Not in my book. When you mention Los Angeles, I think of criminals of every color and immigration status. Real criminals that actually commit crimes that are a threat to the rest of us.

    In my own nice little town and immediate neighborhood, we have about 30% Mexican immigrants. I haven’t checked their paperwork, but it would diminish the quality of the lives of my household if they were to vacate and be replaced by people like the other 70% of our neighbors. These particular Mexicans are quiet and sensible enough to not cause other neighbors problems (no drugs, vicious dogs, tweakers, etc), and they work in restaurant and service jobs.

  14. I have a Mexican girlfriend. We met over the internet, and stay in contact on a daily basis. It sucks that my only option for getting to know her in person is for me to either move down there, or marry her and go through the pain of trying to get her into the U.S.

    *sigh*

  15. What about obtaining citizenship through military service? That’s not mentioned anywhere on the graphic. Serving a very short amount of time in the US Military seems to help speed the process along and requirements have been reduced in recent years.

  16. Jason, as far as I know that’s not an option. Does the U.S. Armed Forces accept applications from non-citizens?

  17. Les,

    Yes, you CAN be a foreign national and enlist in the U.S. armed forces.

    A little over 20% of the U.S. Marines are foreign nationals. And, it does expedite citizenship.

    The thing, for me, about Illegal alienship…and this is coming from someone who grew up within sight of Mexico (San Diego)…is that the ROOT problem needs to be addressed.

    That root problem? Devastating poverty. If staying in the village I was born in means that every meal is a struggle to acquire…and any kind of cash income is a pipe dream in that village, damn straight I am going to where both are easier to come by.

    Another thing that is never discussed is that the majority of Mexican/Central American illegals are in all reality Native Americans. They are at the bottom of the pecking order in south of the U.S. countries.

    Middle/working class Mexican/Honduran/Costa Rican (descended) friends of mine-to this day and while growing up-both Mexican/Honduran/Costa Rican citizens and long established U.S citizens-are TERRIBLY prejudiced against non-spanish descended citizens of their respective home countries. If you call them Mexican/Honduran/Costa Rican in any way relating to their ancestry , they get OFFENDED. I have often been corrected: “our family is Spanish”.

    I think the U.S. native americans should stand up for their south of the border brethren and maybe spend some of that casino cash to help them out.

  18. Scott, you do know that illegal immigrants pay taxes too, don’t you? Not all of course but many pay into Social Security on someone else’s number, so that money is just a donation to us hard-workin’ Americans. Then there’s sales tax, and they pay rent on property that somebody owns and pays property tax on, and depending on employer most of them pay state and fed taxes too.

    Also, if somebody’s in our country, it’s a hell of a lot cheaper to educate them than to imprison them later. Your beef should be with how schools are (not) funded in this country, not with desperate people.

  19. I understand they are desperate, maybe I wouldn’t be so frustrated if we didn’t have to spend the resources to teach people that cant speak English.

  20. Scott.

    Perhaps you should volunteer teaching English at a local international centre then.

  21. Yana, the Mexican immigrants where I live, and where I grew up, which are a small city and a small town respectively, are noisy, rude, have loud parties with mariachi music well into the wee morning hours, keep pit bulls which they train to be vicious and then ditch when they get turned on (my dog was recently badly injured by one such pit bull and had to be put down.) Beyond that, illegal immigrants come from everywhere, not just Mexico. And they should all be sent home. And the immigration laws are “irregularly enforced” due to political corruptness. We need to boot these bastards out. Especially in this economy. I’d rather have a service job than no job, and you make it sound like nobody else would want a restaurant job. But if that was true, Culinary schools wouldn’t exist. I went to one cuz I wanted to make a career out of my love of cooking, which can only be done in the restaurant industry. But despite my degree and experience I still have to compete with illegals for entry level positions at minimum wage when I should be getting hired for at least $15/hr as a sous chef, kitchen manager, or co-executive/executive chef.

  22. Todd, you need to get yourself a nice AMERICAN girlfriend. James, if things are that bad down there then instead of abandoning the village, these illegals should be staying and fixing the problem. The 2 million illegals in California (The majority of which are from Mexico)could have a huge impact if they stayed where they belong and worked to actually fix their own country instead of coming here and ruining ours. They don’t leave their culture behind, they don’t leave their allegiance to their nation’s flag behind, and they have no respect for Americans, the U.S.A, and they think they’re doing their part in reclaiming the territory that

  23. Ahhh, Danny’s real colours come out when he admits that his skills are so worthless as to make him no more a desirable employee than some kid with no training, few skills, and as has been pointed out here, perhaps questionable language skills.

  24. So far I have seen that we need to educate them or they will be imprisoned, and that I need to volunteer to teach them English. This just makes me want them out even more. Why is it our responsibility to do things for them?

  25. Education should be a national and state priority, not a volunteer exercise. To ride a cliche, if we can afford to invade other countries, we can’t afford not to fix things in our own. And creating an even deeper hellhole just South of our border isn’t fixing anything.

  26. Danny, your experience with Mexican immigrants is different than ours. We’ve never had problems or noise from them, but have had problems with tweakers and druggies who keep pit bulls and are in and out of jail continuously. Our dog was attacked by one of the pit bulls, but fortunately escaped unharmed. The owners were so filthy that they infested the apartment building with cockroaches, and brought swarms of flies. When they (white citizens) moved, the flies left after a couple of weeks and several exterminations were done to the building with less than perfect results. They should have taken all their “pets” with them.

    My husband has chosen food service as a career, and for him and us, it has been a great choice. Although there is no such thing as job security, he still has a job and we’re not terribly worried that he will lose to his Mexican co-workers. The company has hired unqualified and less desirable employees because there aren’t many people applying for these jobs. Somebody’s got to do the work. It is not unpleasant work and working conditions are more comfortable than most, in my opinion, but the pay isn’t great. It works for us because we know the value of a dollar, and I suspect it works for the Mexicans because they know that value as well.

  27. Overlord, you’re an idiot. I’ve got plenty of skills. That has nothing to do with the point that I learned how to make high cuisine (fancy fine dining stuff), got a degree I could work in fine dining and eventually open my own restaurants, but I have to fuckin’ compete with illegals for chef work. I’m not even bothering with that industry and am working on becoming a pro fighter, but that’s not my point. Kitchen work isn’t low level work. It’s hard skilled labor that takes talent and creativity. Not all restaurants are akin to fast food and you’re delusional if you think they are.

    Yana, you seemed to completely ignore the fact that not all illegals are mexican. Illegals need to go period. And you’re full of shit or delusional if you think that nobody’s vying for restaurant jobs. I went to culinary school. Terms at my school alone started every 6 weeks, There were 3 schedules with three labs per schedule, with about 30-40 students per lab. In my graduating class alone, there were 1200 students. That’s about 2400 students per year (2 ceremonies per year) from my school alone, and there are hundreds of schools in this country. I don’t know where you live but the reality is that the industry is over saturated and there’s more people competing for culinary industry work than there is available. You’ve got the culinary school graduates looking, the average joe of the street that just needs work, and the illegals that get hired because they work for minimum wage or less.

  28. Danny,

    You make my point for me. You say kitchen work is hard, skilled labour. You say you went to college and have those skills. However, you also say you are being out-competed by unskilled immigrants. If unskilled labour can do your job (presumably their work is adequate, or they wouldn’t keep their job), then obviously the college degree isn’t necessary. To give a counter-example, doctors would have no concern about unskilled labour undercutting then, because unskilled labour couldn’t do their job.

    At the end of the day, quit bitching and do something to address your own inadequacies, before coming and spewing your vitriol here.

  29. Danny, I agree that kitchen work requires talent and creativity to be done well. That does not change the fact that it is considered low-end work, though there are exceptions where such workers are paid better wages. I certainly don’t say it as an insult, but it is a societal reality.

    I’m neither full of shit nor delusional regarding what’s going on at the particular place of employment that I referred to. The difference must be in the locations we refer to. Your reality isn’t mine, though yours might be exactly as you say it is.

    You seem to be saying that undocumented immigrants take minimum wage jobs away from graduates of culinary schools. THAT is BS on more than one level. If culinary school graduates want and compete for minimum wage jobs, that is a big surprise to me. Where I am, jobs like my husband’s pay what they pay. They don’t look at an immigrant and pay them less.

    I’m confused about your statement about getting a degree, enabling you to work in fine dining. I hope you’re talking about culinary school. But if graduating with culinary school certification means you have to compete with people off the street, immigrant or not, there is something wrong with the picture.

    Yes, there are immigrants that are not Mexican. I’ve seen Russians and Asians as well, in my area. Another line of work I see many of these people in, which are mostly Mexican where I am, is nursing/elder care. Orderlies, CNAs, institutional kitchen workers. I don’t really know how the job market is at those places, but those are also low-end but extremely important jobs, in my opinion. I wonder if those places have all the staff they need, long term, or if they also have job openings that many citizens would rather be homeless than perform.

    This is ordinarily not my issue, mainly because it has zero relevance to the destruction of America by the health care industry. Priorities are important, but the number of people who focus on non-issues deserve just what they are going to get.

  30. Overlord, you’re talking out of your ass. I don’t have any inadequacies. One thing about the food industry, though is that restaurant owners are trying to make a profit, just like the owner of anything else in any other industry. In order to maximize profits they cut costs wherever they can. The only positions in a kitchen that make more than minimum wage-$10/$15 per hour (depending on if you live in a major city or not) for a line cook job are the KM, Exec. Chef, Co-Exec. Chef, and sometimes the Sous chef. I also learned first hand the Culinary School is a waste of time because not only do employers in the restaurant industry not give two fucks about a culinary degree, every restaurant has its own system for doing things so you have to learn how their system works. I.E. You learn on the job for every restaurant regardless of going to culinary school or being an average joe off the street/illegal fuckhead immigrant.

    Yana, read what I just wrote carefully. That’s the whole picture, period. And the only thing wrong with the picture is illegal immigrants. Low-end work or not, 9.5% of the US population that is unemployed would be more than happy to take whatever they can get just to have money coming in. Shit, I’ve been job hunting on a daily basis for over 1.5 years and the only lead I’ve gotten is a 15 hour a week job at a vitamin store that I’m waiting on a second interview for. You’re out of your mind if you think people would rather be homeless than take a job. That’s a myth and a misnomer. I know plenty of people that would take any job that would hire them. But that being said, there are almost 3 million illegals estimated to live in the state of California, and that’s 3 million jobs that should be held by a good portion of that 9.5% of unemployed citizens. People that think like you need to get your head out of your ass.

  31. Well Danny, seems like you made a bad career path choice going to culinary school then. Again, quit whining and blaming others. Don’t you have any other skills? Surely there must be something else you can do. And if not, get yourself trained. Geez, what is it with the self-pity….

  32. It’s not about self pity. My whole point is, that there is an entire industry worth of job hunters that paid good money/got into debt to specialize in a career field that can’t find work or get what they should in pay when they do because illegals are lowering the standard. I’m not even fucking with that industry anymore, but you’d know that had you actually read my posts all the way. Of course I’ve got other skills. But that doesn’t mean dick in this economy either. Right now I’ll take any job I can get to pay my bills and get MMA training. Fighters make better money than anyone. UFC here I come.

  33. It certainly does seem to be about self pity. You talk about how highly skilled being a chef is, how you had to go to college, and get into debt, and then go on to say that unskilled immigrants are stealing the jobs from you. It doesn’t say anything good about you that you cannot out-compete an untrained foreigner for a good job. I mean, you shouldn’t even be applying for the same jobs as them! You should be applying for the jobs which require a college degree. If you are competing with unskilled workers, then you didn’t need the college degree in the first place, and you have only yourself to blame for getting into debt. Nothing about this casts you in a good light.

    Good luck with the getting hit in the head thing. I have to disagree though – I’m pretty sure merchant bankers get paid more than fighters.

  34. Not really. I’m sure that the 6 figures a fight, even without the 65K bonus for winning is equal to more than what a merchant banker makes if I get a minimum of 2 fights per year. On top of that bankers don’t get fame/recognition.

    Meanwhile, you fail to recognize the difference between someone who’s on the inside of the industry telling you the facts from hands-on experience and someone who’s begging for pity. I’m the former, not the latter.

  35. Danny,

    Your figures for fighters salaries seem to only be for the top guys. The bottom guys seem to be getting much less – a few thousand dollars a fight.
    http://mmajunkie.com/news/15498/ufc-100-fighters-salaries-brock-lesnar-and-georges-st-pierre-top-earners-from-x-x-million-payroll.mma
    http://www.fighting-mma.com/articles/ufc-its-time-to-pay-up.php

    This guy
    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/dana-whites-salary-vs-average-ufc-fighter-salary-599000/
    suggests that the average salary is somewhere a little south of $26k.
    Heck, Wikipedia reckons the minimum per fight fee is about $2k (although it does go up to $500k for the big names). Fighting twice a month doesn’t sound so appealing I reckon.

    As for the rest of your comments, well, I’m going quit now, because I’ve made my point. You seem to have some sense of entitlement that the world owes you a good job based solely upon the geographical accident of where you were born.

  36. I said twice a year. And Wikipedia isn’t a reliable source as it can be edited by anyone. Nice try though. I’d still be making more than you, and you’re still proving to be an idiot because I said 6 figures in the UFC. I didn’t say for MMA in general. You get a title belt and you get a million dollars, which goes up a mil every time you defend that title. I know my shit. You don’t. I’m done trying to explain things on a level you can understand. I just can’t get my head far enough up my ass to get on a frequency you can understand.

  37. Well Danny, I hope it works out for you. Just remember that huge numbers of college graduates in all fields are having a hard time getting a job in their field right now. That includes professional jobs that are never held by illegal immigrants.

    (I’m not thrilled with the idea of illegals preparing food. Especially in a state where they need to worry about getting nailed for immigration violations while getting certified for food service.)

  38. Danny Danny Danny,

    Well, I really hope you are as good at MMA as you seem to think you are. All I can say is that for every Loyoto Machida, there are a thousand wannabes. You get Machida’s fight fee and you’ll be fighting twice a year; but please realise that you are going to be starting off fighting small fights, earning maybe a few thousand a fight. You are probably going to have to be fighting for years to get up into the big leagues, if you ever manage it.

    I don’t know Danny, overall you seem pretty divorced from reality. You thought the world owed you a favour, and that you should not have to compete against others once you left college. Now you think you’ll be immediately fighting in the top leagues of MMA without going through all the crappy small rounds which don’t pay that much (as evidenced by the four independent websites I cited).

  39. Once again, Overlord, get your head out of your ass. I never once said that I shouldn’t have to compete against others in my career field. But what I did say is that Citizens shouldn’t have to compete with illegal immigrants for work of any kind. Furthermore, No shit I’ll be starting off doing small fights. But anyone can be good at anything if they train/work hard enough at it. Even still, I’ll be making more money fighting (small fights I’ll probably try to do 4-6 a year and get wins by knockout) while having whatever shitty day jobs I can until I can get into either Strikeforce or the UFC, though I’d prefer the UFC. Doesn’t sound that divorced from reality, does it? I’ve already got a few years of Karate training, I just need about 1 1/2-2 years of jiu jitsu before I START fighting so I’ll be set with an excellent base for starting out.

    The only one between the two of us that’s divorced from reality is you because you’re making assumptions. The long and short of everything is that Illegals have got to GO. NOW. They don’t belong here, they bring diseases, steal jobs that citizens need right now, etc. Instead of dealing with paperwork or whatever, the INS should just take them back the way they came: by rounding them up in vans and driving them back across the border.

  40. But what I did say is that Citizens shouldn’t have to compete with illegal immigrants for work of any kind.

    Then why not report the businesses hiring illegals to the immigration / tax service? You could get the illegals deported, and send a message to the business owners not to hire illegals (and it can be done anonymously). Of course, you would need to be able to prove that the workers are illegal before you file the report. Can you do that Danny? Or are you just assuming they are illegal?
    As Yana and I have both pointed out, there is something desperately wrong if someone with a specialist education is competing with someone with no training for a job, which you claim requires specialist training. Something doesn’t add up. As I pointed out, people who really do have specialist training (doctors, lawyers, accountants, scientists) have nothing to fear from illegal immigrants stealing their jobs. So, either being a chef doesn’t really require all the training you claim it does, or perhaps you are just not as good as you think you are at being a chef.

    No shit I’ll be starting off doing small fights.

    Right. So knock off with the “fighting twice a year BS”. You’ll make F-all to start with. More than zero, for sure, but nothing which will allow you to fight only twice a year.

  41. I already explained to you how the culinary industry really works (rather than what the recruiters at culinary schools make you think it’ll be like) and why , despite going to culinary school, culinary school graduates have to compete with those who didn’t go to culinary school. Pay attention. Easiest way to prove someone’s an illegal? They don’t speak much english. Or they flat-out tell you they are. I reported one of my fellow karate students because he bragged about being here illegally.

  42. I reported one of my fellow karate students because he bragged about being here illegally.

    Wow, what a good friend you are.

    Danny, out of curiosity, what percentage of graduates from your college go on to (good) jobs in the food industry? 70%? 90%? It must be higher than 50%, surely.

  43. Hey Les you’re a genius!
    California is doing great right?
    Do you know how much money illegal immigration is costing California?
    Parts of Cali are already third world my friend.
    I used to think the way you do, and you’ll realize in time that this is so wrong.
    They collect welfare in California multiple times a month under different last names.
    They DO NOT need any ID to do so.
    Unless something changes we are so screwed in this country, and California is not going to recover.
    Want to bet on that?

  44. Scott,

    So, why don’t they tighten up the regulations to claim welfare? How much is illegal immigration costing California? How much is it benefiting California? How much would it cost to police the border, and round up the illegals? How many Americans do you know which would be willing and able to pick fruit in the hot sun for 10 hours a day for minimum wage? How much of a price increase in food prices would you be willing to stomach to ensure it was an American rather than Mexican picker? Do you even look at where the food is produced when you buy it, or just the price?
    Why is it so hard for people to immigrate? Illegal immigration seems to be a problem because viable paths to legally working in the country don’t exist.

    Like it or not, all developed countries rely on a ready supply of cheap labour. Where do you think that’s going to come from?

  45. I’d gladly pay whatever mark up there is on food to ensure that an American Citizen holds harvesting jobs. I do look at where my food comes from. Illegal immigration is costing California billions of dollars. It’s one of the reason our state’s economy is so fucked up. Like I said, I know plenty of people that would gladly take any job they can get right now given that the amount of unemployed citizens is still the highest it’s ever been in history. $8.00 for 10 hours a day 5 days a week harvesting produce comes out to be decent money in the current economic climate here in Cali.

    Once again, you’re so intent on insulting me overlord, that you’re looking at things the wrong way. Rather than calling me a bad friend, you should be calling me a True Patriot. Illegals have got to go. Period. Cheap labor can come from all the lazy ass citizens that are poppin’ out babies to stay on welfare. Kick out the illegals and cut off the welfare.

    There are plenty of volunteer groups patrolling the border. What needs to happen is that they need to be legally allowed to use lethal force if needed to keep illegals on the other side of the border.

    I remember back when I was still in Culinary School, and all those Immigrants, both legal and illegal, were protesting having deportation laws being actually enforced. They had that “Day without a Mexican” thing in an attempt to show that without them shopping or anything it would damage the economy of the state. WRONG. What ended up happening was a fuckin’ nice day out for the rest of us. Plenty of Legal Citizens stepped up to the plate and went shopping and stuff. It was great. No traffic on the freeway, or on the street, not even on the sidewalk. Very very short lines in the stores. It was great. We don’t need them here at all and they proved that shit themselves. If you think they should be here, you should be gone with them.

  46. Scott,

    I am certainly not saying that all immigrants should be allowed in. Actually, I do think illegal immigrants should be deported. However, as I pointed out above immigrants are a net positive for the country (although not equally for every state – some, such as California, bear more than others), and you can’t deport illegals without making some legal way available. Sure, the link below suggests that immigration costs slightly more then the benefit (for California), and in their words “the inefficiency is small”. They quantify this later by pointing out it represents only about 1% of the tax revenue generated.

    http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~economic/econ104/immigrat/

    Second they point out that “the “stealing of natives’ jobs” is mostly a myth and simply does not happen on a large scale”, except perhaps for those delicate little flowers amongst us, who apparently set their bar at competing for entry-level jobs. As I pointed out, you don’t see brain surgeons competing with uneducated Mexicans for jobs.

    So, you might be willing to pay extra for fruit Danny. How much more? Double? What about poor families? What are they supposed to do? There are already plenty of families which can’t provide adequate, high quality food for their families. Where are they supposed to find the money? In fact, given all your bitching earlier, where will you find the money when your grocery bill increases by 20%? Wouldn’t the increases in your food bills be higher than 1% if the labourers were Americans, don’cha think?

    Finally, Danny, I am not an American, I have never been to America (except transiting to NZ), and if you are representative of the people of America, then I don’t particularly want to go.

  47. Quoted from this page: http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_education.html
    “Most illegal aliens are working in lower paying jobs are often sharing houses and apartments with other families. Most pay little or no state or federal income taxes and, because they have low incomes and frugal lifestyles, they pay little sales taxes as well. The local and state taxes illegal aliens pay, comes no where near paying for the education costs of their children. The difference is picked up by the tax paying public. Since many localities fund public schools through real estate taxes, this often means escalating taxes which put an enormous burden on elderly home owners living on fixed incomes. This has added more collateral damage costs to the “victimless crime” that taxpaying Americans must shoulder in order to save ten cents on a head of lettuce.”

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