SEB Mailbag: “What do you do with the money?” edition.

Got the following missive today:

From: Angel Eyes browneye_cutiepie@yahoo.com
Subject: Oh my….. and you wonder why the world is in this kind of shape!

I would never donate to your site….. talk about a scam!! What do you do with the money??? So you don’t believe in a heaven or hell or God!  When you die I promise you will believe in it then…when you look into the eyes of your maker and get sent to hell to burn.  FOREVER!! How can you not believe in God, do you have children Mr. Les??? Look at that miracle… I promise no man could have ever started life in the beginning! Think about it….  How did man first get put on this earth.  Don’t say evolution because how did a monkey get here? I mean HELLO during caveman times the wheel was a big deal so you actually think something else could have created man!  There must be a greater power.  Are you serious or just stupid.  Now grant it I am not a holy roller and I totally believe that the prayer rug with “Saint Matthew’s” is a scam, but God is not a scam and people that start scams like the prayer rug will be held accountable for their actions.  So think about it Mr. Les.  God bless you.  Feel free to reply… I’m not afraid. Thanks… that’s all I have to say!  Also, if you have children will be held accountable for the lives.  Do you actually want them to be sent to Hell? To burn for eternity??

And here’s my reply:

    Angel Eyes,

    Thanks for the email. It’ll make a great blog entry in my SEB Mailbag series of notes from nutcases. I appreciate you providing me with more fodder for my readers!

    Cheers!

    Les

193 thoughts on “SEB Mailbag: “What do you do with the money?” edition.

  1. Unfortunately there are lots more people like her especially in the good old USA. This reminds me of a time a few months back at Easter that I told my sister that I was an atheist. She suspected that but I never told her outright. We had an hour long argument over the existance of God and the supernatural of course I’m arguing against it.

    The following week she told me she was having nightmares about me going to hell cause I didn’t believe. She said she talked with God and he told her not to worry that I was not going to hell because I was atheist. I guess she put in a good word for me. lol

    I don’t know how to deal with this. She obviously dreamt that up so she wouldnt have to worry about me in the afterlife. These Christians truly are scared of things that don’t exist but trying to get my sister to see reason is impossible.

    Sorry for the long post. Hey Les do you have relatives like my sister. If so how do you deal with it?

  2. She said she talked with God and he told her not to worry that I was not going to hell because I was atheist. I guess she put in a good word for me. lol

    I would say thank her and drop the subject. I have a very close friend who is a devout catholic. We have an agreement (which we often break) not to discuss religion, but we are close enough to do it non-acrimoniously. Whenever she says that she prays for me, I simply thank her.

  3. I don’t quite understand how she thinks donating to you is a scam.

    Does she think you’re promising us eternal life for a $2 donation?

  4. browneye_cutiepie.

    Hmmmm.

    I wonder if she knows what “browneye” is the colloquial term for.

    Or maybe she DOES have an adorable sphincter.

  5. Also, if you have children will be held accountable for the lives.  Do you actually want them to be sent to Hell? To burn for eternity??

    Hmmm… If I remember the Old Testament correctly, the Almightly—in his infinite mercy (not)—prefers to punish the children for the sins of their fathers, not the other way around.

    Sigh…another so-called “Christian” twit who can’t be bothered to pay attention to what’s in their so-called “holy book.”  After awhile it gets kind of depressing.  Poor Gutenberg must be rolling in his grave…  Not that they’d know who he is, either, mind you.

  6. OOPS—I just realized that I read “cutiepie’s” post totally bass-ackwards b/c she didn’t make sense in that first quoted sentence. 

    But I stand by my premise that Deity who holds children accountable for their parents’ failings is one effed up mofo.  And one which I see no reason to give the time of day, much less worship.  And, by extension, anyone who does worship a baby-murdering monster like that needs to be locked up for their own good and medicated until they snap out of it.

  7. Sigh.  There’s one born every minute.  I just wonder, when cutiepie goes to the Great Beyond, what she will have to say to Bob, when He tells her that Christianity is a scam, and that she didn’t slack enough in her life to rate a condo on Planet X.  Who will be laughing then?

  8. She made a couple of nice promises, but needs to actually learn something about evolution before she says anything saturated with her ignorant view on our understanding of way of life.

    Sadly she is caught in a mental paradox and can’t handle not knowing all about the universe so she reaches out to god, where paradoxes are accepted as mysterious ways.

    So sad.

  9. I wish some of these people would make more of an effort to embrace their fictional afterlives.

  10. I wonder if condemning others to hell makes her feel better about herself? Of course, she would insist that she isn’t the one condemning you and that her god will take care of that. And yet, she thinks this god should be worshiped. I just don’t get it.

  11. It seems we’ve touched a nerve with Angel Brown Eyes. She’s replied to me with comments to all of us because it appears she’s incapable of figuring out the form to leave a comment here herself.

    So, in order to help her out, I shall take the effort to fill in the form with her reply myself so that all can see it and she can be notified of proper followups.

  12. First of all I did NOT give you permission to post my email address on your website. I did not agree to your terms and conditions.. there was no agreement, so since I’ve been “published” , then I dare you to “publish” this …Mr. Les Jenkins. The comments are sad though! But lets get some things straight…

    I am sure the reason that people like you believe their is no God is because you can not see him…. right?? Well if I was to look at you;  I would not be able see your brain, so does that mean you don’t have one?????????

    Lobo oh my thats cute…. I have brown eyes smarty!! LOL!!!

    Xav0971 YES there are others like me… THANK THE ALMIGHTY GOD

    Cubiclegrll how is God a baby murdering monster??? And if parent chooses to not take their child to church or teach them God does not exist because of their beliefs then YES they are accountable!! And No I am not saying you are going to hell if you do not go to church…

    Zilch OKAY who in the world is Bob and what is this Planet X ???? Do you all believe in aliens ??? And you call me a nutcase??? When I die I would like to believe that I just wont rot in the ground till the end of time… my soul will go to heaven….

    For every one out there,  if there is no God then please let me know your beliefs …. How did you get here??? How did your parents get here??? How was man put on this earth??? How did that beautiful baby boy or girl, that you hold in your arms, get here?Yes I understand fertilization and the (miracle) cycle of the embryo and fetus (I am a nurse so I know science) but how can that happen without the grace of GOD???? Answer me that!!! Please!!

    As I said before, I am not this crazy Holy Roller who believes in a man touching my forehead and Tada I’m healed. I am surely not perfect (not even close), I’ve had my fair share of fun and gotten myself into some trouble soooo …. No that’s not what I am about…I’m not even quoting from the bible, but merely asking how someone can not believe in God. Just look at the miracles in this world. So yes I BELIEVE IN GOD and proud to say it!!!!! Also, as people get older or they come close to death….like for instance almost dying in a plane crash, the first thing they say is HELP ME GOD or OH GOD!!! All I am asking for is your beliefs… how was man created??? How was that beautiful sky above created??? You think it just happened?? No I’m sorry, not something that miraculous.

    Yours Truly,
    browneye_cutiepie——Hugs and kisses and GOD BLESS!!

  13. Oh and another thing for Tback, I understand evolution.  I had to study it during all of my schooling! Yes I am educated.  The modern theory concerning the evolution of man proposes that humans and apes derive from an apelike ancestor that lived on earth a few million years ago. Okay so we derived from an apelike ancestor sure…. I don’t buy it but how did that apelike ancestor get put on earth.  Was it magic?  Yeah that’s it,  right? I like the theory that I came from God, I mean do you want your ancestor to be King Kong? I like Adam and Eve better.  If I am wrong about the way evolution works then I apologize, its been a while since I studied it.  Besides it’s not important. So why does everyone have to use such phrases such as saturated and mental paradox?? Are you trying to make yourself sound believable?? I know it’s a load of crap so phrase it any way you want… make your self feel better.  You all call me nutcase so back at ya!  I believe in Christianity, yes but have you just ever wondered –  What if all these “nutcases” are right??? Do you actually want to play with eternity??

    Mr. Jenkins, if we met on the street I promise you would actually see that I was a nice girl and very friendly. I’m not shy and would talk to anyone.  I actually like the way you dog the government.  I know it sucks, how much is the gas there in MI?? Mine is $4.00 a gallon.  My husband makes pretty good and it’s hard to support our 2 kids.  So hey I’m not totally against you.  But have you ever just wondered what if? Thanks for your time. God Bless!

  14. Now now guys. It isn’t nice to make fun of six year olds.

    I mean she isn’t even capable of coming here and defending herself.

    That said:

    As I said before, I am not this crazy Holy Roller who believes in a man touching my forehead and Tada I’m healed.

    doesn’t really go with:

    … THANK THE ALMIGHTY GOD

    So yes I BELIEVE IN GOD and proud to say it!!!!!

    HELP ME GOD or OH GOD!!!

    Nope. Doesn’t sound like a holy roller at all.

  15. As you can see it’s the usual case of I-can’t-understand-how-any-of-this-could-happen-without-god-so-it-must-be-god false dichotomy thinking. She’s asking the same questions that are always asked, but at least she seems to have the benefit of some education behind her. She’s just unable to accept the idea that reality can be a natural process.

    AE, allow me to at least clear up one misconception you have. I don’t need your permission to post your email address or your original email. If you didn’t want either published on the blog then you shouldn’t have sent it to me in the first place. At the very least you should have explicitly said you didn’t want it to be reproduced. I wouldn’t have to abide by that request, but I probably would have because while I’m rude enough to reproduce an email such as yours without asking I’m not so rude as to do it when requested not to.

    Now allow me to address a couple of the questions you’ve asked:

    I am sure the reason that people like you believe their is no God is because you can not see him…. right?? Well if I was to look at you; I would not be able see your brain, so does that mean you don’t have one?????????

    Actually lots of people have seen my brain so your question is rendered moot from the start. I recognize the rather popular email chain letter you’re taking that argument from, however, as I’ve written about it before.

    It’s a stupid question because there are easy ways to verify the existence of my brain, some more disgusting and potentially lethal than others, but easy enough to do just the same.

    The same cannot be said about God. There’s no tests, no scans, no instrumentation capable of revealing God as an absolutely real entity or phenomena, as I’m sure you’re already aware what with your scientific training. That’s the difference between something being falsifiable (me having a brain) and not being falsifiable (God).

    The reason I don’t believe in God isn’t because I can’t see him—there’s lots of things I can’t see that I have no trouble accepting as real such as gasses and atoms and molecules—it’s because I see no evidence to support the idea that he exists and have certainly not had any experiences that would indicate to my satisfaction his existence or influence on day to day life.

    Cubiclegrll how is God a baby murdering monster???

    Read the Old Testament for starters. Lots of killing by God or on God’s orders in that book. Including, as I recall, all the first born in Egypt at one point. Except, of course, for those houses that had lambs blood on the doorpost because God was big on killing baby sheep to make him happy.

    But, you’re sure to argue, that was a justified action on God’s part to get Pharaoh to let the Israelite slaves go, but surely an all-powerful God could have found a better way to change the Pharaoh’s heart than killing off a whole bunch of kids. But wait, God hardened the Pharaoh’s heart so that he wouldn’t let the slaves go so that God could have a good excuse to kill all those first borns. Hmmm, now that does pose a pickle…

    You’re mistaken to think we’ve not read your book. Some of us have read it extensively and still read it today. My study of the Bible was one of the things that led me away from belief to begin with. Yes, I used to be a believe myself. Baptist in fact.

    Zilch OKAY who in the world is Bob and what is this Planet X ???? Do you all believe in aliens ??? And you call me a nutcase??? When I die I would like to believe that I just wont rot in the ground till the end of time… my soul will go to heaven….

    Bob is the deity of a parody religion call the Church of the SubGenius. We believe in it about as much as we believe in the Christianity, Islam, Shintoism or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    For every one out there, if there is no God then please let me know your beliefs …. How did you get here??? How did your parents get here??? How was man put on this earth??? How did that beautiful baby boy or girl, that you hold in your arms, get here?Yes I understand fertilization and the (miracle) cycle of the embryo and fetus (I am a nurse so I know science) but how can that happen without the grace of GOD???? Answer me that!!! Please!!

    How can that happen without God? Quite naturally.

    As I said before, I am not this crazy Holy Roller who believes in a man touching my forehead and Tada I’m healed. I am surely not perfect (not even close), I’ve had my fair share of fun and gotten myself into some trouble soooo …. No that’s not what I am about…I’m not even quoting from the bible, but merely asking how someone can not believe in God. Just look at the miracles in this world.

    When one starts looking at reality with a critical eye it becomes rather easy to not believe in God. When one expands their education to the point that they develop a basic understanding of how a lot of stuff works, such as Evolution and how the human brain perceives reality, it’s not hard at all to see how God belief can come about and persist without there being an actual God.

    It’s as easy as not believing in leprechauns or the tooth fairy or Santa Claus. The latter two of which, I might add, have presented a lot more evidence for their existence in my life than God ever has.

    The miracles you claim to see in this world aren’t miracles. Most of them are natural processes and the rest are likely people engaging in confirmation bias and self delusion.

    So yes I BELIEVE IN GOD and proud to say it!!!!! Also, as people get older or they come close to death….like for instance almost dying in a plane crash, the first thing they say is HELP ME GOD or OH GOD!!!

    Some do, but not all. Usually it’s folks who already believe in God who call out to God at those times. Nothing surprising about that.

    All I am asking for is your beliefs… how was man created??? How was that beautiful sky above created??? You think it just happened?? No I’m sorry, not something that miraculous.

    Yes, I think all of it just fell into place and we’re lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to enjoy it.

    I do always love it when folks like you suggest that the odds of that happening are so high as to be impossible when surely the odds of their being an actual entity that could make all of it happen by simply deciding it should happen are astronomically higher still. Playing the “odds are impossible game” to prove God’s existence doesn’t work in your favor.

    Oh and another thing for Tback, I understand evolution.  I had to study it during all of my schooling! Yes I am educated.  The modern theory concerning the evolution of man proposes that humans and apes derive from an apelike ancestor that lived on earth a few million years ago. Okay so we derived from an apelike ancestor sure…. I don’t buy it but how did that apelike ancestor get put on earth.  Was it magic?  Yeah that’s it, right?

    You obviously haven’t studied the theory enough if you think it ends where you leave off here.

    I like the theory that I came from God, I mean do you want your ancestor to be King Kong? I like Adam and Eve better.

    Yeah, cause it’s so much better to come from two mythical people who are responsible for all the sin in the world than it is to be from a mythical giant ape who’s only real crime was that he fell in love with a woman.

    Do you even see how ridiculous your argument is?

    If I am wrong about the way evolution works then I apologize, its been a while since I studied it.  Besides it’s not important.

    Don’t apologize, go study up on it. You’re a nurse for chrissakes, you should definitely consider it important. Do you also dismiss the Germ Theory of disease? There’s an awful lot of evolution in that theory these days. How do you function as a nurse with that attitude? Do you just pray for each patient that comes in and then send them home hoping God will make their boo-boos better?

    I’m betting you don’t. I’m betting you make use of a science in the course of your job. The fact that you do so without understanding it is a credit to your teachers I’m sure.

    I believe in Christianity, yes but have you just ever wondered – What if all these “nutcases” are right??? Do you actually want to play with eternity??

    Ah yes, Pascal’s Wager. We’ve discussed that one to death as well. It’s another false dichotomy.

    Mr. Jenkins, if we met on the street I promise you would actually see that I was a nice girl and very friendly. I’m not shy and would talk to anyone.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if that were entirely true. You’d probably find that I was affable and pleasant as well. None of what you’ve said makes you a bad person in my opinion, just a bit self-deluded.

    actually like the way you dog the government.  I know it sucks, how much is the gas there in MI?? Mine is $4.00 a gallon.  My husband makes pretty good and it’s hard to support our 2 kids.  So hey I’m not totally against you.  But have you ever just wondered what if?

    Gas has been around $4.05 to $4.20 a gallon here as of late.

    Do I ever wonder what if? Yes, about a lot of things that aren’t real. It’s often an amusing and enjoyable thought exercise to ponder the possibilities no matter how far fetched they might be.

    The idea of an all powerful God who loves us and watches out for us is very appealing indeed and it’s not hard to see why so many folks cling to it. Wishing something were so, however, doesn’t make it so no matter how much you want it to be. I’d rather confront reality head on no matter how uncomfortable it is than to live in a happy fantasy.

  16. Xav0971 YES there are others like me… THANK THE ALMIGHTY GOD

    Unfortunately, many of your kind voted for Bush.  ‘Nuff said.

    Cubiclegrll how is God a baby murdering monster??? And if parent chooses to not take their child to church or teach them God does not exist because of their beliefs then YES they are accountable!! And No I am not saying you are going to hell if you do not go to church…

    In addition to Les’ mention of Exodus, let us not forget God murdering David and Bathsheba’s child to punish them for adultery (like Bathsheba had sooooo choice in that matter).  Similarly, I find it very hard to believe that with all the sex going on in Sodom and Gemorrah, that no one was pregnant at the time that God destroyed them.  Or that no one outside of Noah’s family was pregnant at the time of the Flood.

    Or, how about this little gem from the first Book of Samuel:

    Thus saith the LORD of hosts … go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

    Granted, God’s not directly committing infanticide in that one, but He’s definitely calling the shots.

    So, you are worshiping a baby-murdering b@$+@rd.  You can cherry-pick your religion to be as warm and fuzzy as you like.  Most folks seem to manage to find what they were looking for in just about any so-called “holy” book of any religion, Christianity being no exception.  But you’ll excuse me if I find the talk of “God’s love” to be complete bull$#!+.  A truly loving God would just forgive our sins out of hand, rather than insisting on one last human sacrifice (a.k.a. Jesus) for old times’ sake.

  17. Oh, and AE – why do people say “Oh, God”?  They don’t mean it literally; it’s just an exclamation.  Just like when you say, “Oh, shit!” you don’t actually plan to take a dump (or expect anyone around you to do it).

    It’s an empty word.  It’s a placeholder for an idea that wore out a long time ago.  You can cling to it if you like, but you’ll become a much more responsible adult if you let go of your fantasy.

  18. Les- thanks for posting the Church of the SubGenius link.  I agree with pretty much everything you said except this:

    We believe in it about as much as we believe in the Christianity, Islam, Shintoism or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    Hey, I believe in Bob much more than any of those other myths.  After all, what other deity promises you Eternal Sex in the afterlife?  Harps, pasta, or even seventy-two virgins just don’t cut it.

    Angel Eyes- I, too, am a pretty nice person, especially during a terrific thunderstorm with grape-sized hailstones, like right now here in Vienna.  Yippee!  Actually, although I like debating about God, I don’t really care what people believe, as long as they behave nicely.

    And you transatlantics have it good- gas is currently around €1.40 a liter here, which is over eight and a half bucks a gallon.  Mind you, it should be even more expensive, to cover the real cost of environmental destruction.  But I guess Jesus will take care of gas prices when He comes back in a year or two…

  19. I am pretty taken with browneye_cutipie’s view that we can choose to believe whatever we like about the origins of life. And it will be true if we choose to believe it.
    She says she doesn’t like the idea of a common ancestor for apes and humans, and she prefers Adam and Eve. Ergo, Adam and Eve must be true.
    There are dozens of creation myths that she could choose to believe over evolution, but – despite being unconstrained by any need for evidence – she picks the rubbishy Adam and Eve one.
    How uninventive is that?

  20. There are dozens of creation myths that she could choose to believe over evolution, but – despite being unconstrained by any need for evidence – she picks the rubbishy Adam and Eve one.
    How uninventive is that?

    Eh.  With all the cheeses of the world to choose from, I still go back to Velveeta for “comfort food” mac-n-cheese, just ‘cuz that’s what I was raised on.  I suspect the same thing’s going on with cutiepie…

  21. I had to study it during all of my schooling!

    Obviously you didn’t though.

    Yes I am educated.

    No, you’re not.

    The modern theory concerning the evolution of man proposes that humans and apes derive from an apelike ancestor that lived on earth a few million years ago.

    Not just proposes, demonstrates. That’s why all of those scientists are excited when they find transitional fossils.

    Okay so we derived from an apelike ancestor sure…. I don’t buy it but how did that apelike ancestor get put on earth.

    From its mother and father, just like you. Eventually you’ll also be a transitional fossil, or at least someone like you, like us all. We’re not stable enough in our genetics to rule out things like eye color from one generation to the next, that you can’t grasp that those same forces over the course of millions, and billions, of years could create larger, more profound changes is a failure of your imagination.

    Was it magic?  Yeah that’s it, right? I like the theory that I came from God,

    You want to mock evolution because you’re not educated enough to understand it, so it appears to be magic to you? And you want to exchange it for the mythological of “God did it?” Come on, don’t be coy. You might as well blame everything on peanut butter.

    I mean do you want your ancestor to be King Kong?

    King Kong is just as real as God, and more entertaining.

    I like Adam and Eve better.

    I always found it sort of misogynist, like the rest of the Bible and most of the Bible’s followers.

    If I am wrong about the way evolution works then I apologize, its been a while since I studied it.

    It’s all right, it’s clear you didn’t do a particularly bang up job studying it the first time. Considering the rest of the things coming out of your mouth, we’re all pretty used to people like yourself coming across like a startling condemnation of the public school system.

    Besides it’s not important.

    It is if you’re going to try to argue why it’s wrong.

    So why does everyone have to use such phrases such as saturated and mental paradox?? Are you trying to make yourself sound believable??

    If we wanted to sound believable to you then all we’d have to do apparently is shove our words into a two thousand year old book originally written by semitic goatherds and finalized by political committee in Italy. If an expanded vocabulary bothers you so much, it probably explains a lot why you slept through those biology courses.

    I know it’s a load of crap so phrase it any way you want… make your self feel better.

    Really? You know this because you obviously also paid a lot of attention in English class too, right? I’m not going to bother with going over your message with the obvious red marker or anything like that. Suffice it to say, when grown ups are talking don’t assume that you’re equipped to debate them on vocabulary.

    You all call me nutcase so back at ya!  I believe in Christianity, yes but have you just ever wondered – What if all these “nutcases” are right???

    What exactly are you proposing? Charles Manson could actually be a prophet? Warren Jeffs could actually be ordained by your God to molest underage girls? Witches should be burnt? A woman’s place is at home obeying her husband and having children? Shellfish are unholy? Blowing yourself up is a good way to collect jailbait in the afterlife? Blood sacrifices upon the altar of the Temple of the Sun promise victories over your enemies?

    There are a lot of you nutcases. You’re all the same.

    Do you actually want to play with eternity??

    You’re the one claiming an eternity. It’s a lot of rubbish, like your “education” on evolution. You’re obviously not understanding the whole concept of time on Earth here properly, but you want to play like you’d do better with infinity?

    What’s your mythology teasing you with? “If thou art so stupid as to believe in me, I shall promise you plenty of time to regret it hanging out with other losers like yourself for a fucking impossibly long time.” I don’t think it would take a thousand years, much less eternity to be tired of that particular tea party. A few thousand years more and you’d all be praying to atheists to storm your mythology and rescue you.

    I promise you would actually see that I was a nice girl and very friendly. I’m not shy and would talk to anyone.

    Sounds like a stripper.

  22. When I die I would like to believe that I just wont rot in the ground till the end of time

    BAM! That’s all any True Believer really ever needs to say.  I want to believe that reality is really a fairy tale, so I can’t believe it is otherwise or understand why anyone else would choose to not believe the fairy tale.

    Harps, pasta, or even seventy-two virgins just don’t cut it.

    I assume the pasta is referring to the FSM? Why don’t you believe in the FSM Zilch! His afterlife will be filled with a beer volcano, eternal pasta with meatballs and sauce (sorry vegetarians!) AND a stripper factory! I am assuming the strippers put out too, so I think FSM has a leg up over Sub-genius. 

    Bob? That’s almost as crazy as worshiping a zombie!

  23. Angel Eyes.

    Go and read a little on Hinduism or Sihkism.  They hold different Creation stories to your self (though all deity based).  OTHER THAN the bible, how do you know their stories are wrong?  If the only opposition you can provide is its different to yours, consider this.

    A person who has never encounted any religeon asks you why he should believe your stories.  What would you say that would differentiate you from a representative of any other religeon?

    If everything is made by God, why is so much of it so badly designed?

    Oh, and the money- Les uses it to pay for the hosting costs of this site.  Occassionally people pay a little extra, because your government and its supporters think it is better to bomb foriegners instead of providing healthcare for it’s citizens.

  24. Am I the only one in here who is amused as hell? (No pun intended)

    First of all I did NOT give you permission to post my email address on your website.

    I thought that the risks of a Christian emailing Les about the grace of Gawd were pretty clear already.

  25. Alright, I’m subscribing. This is bound to attract at least one WBC-type loon and I don’t want to miss it.

  26. First, let me say yes I am amused Pato2447!!  And I believe that everyone is getting things very wrong.  I am not in anyway putting your beliefs down, so why put mine down?  This is debating.

    Mr. Jenkins, I would like to thank you for posting me, although I emailed you and not joined your site.  Would you kick me off of your site if I joined?  It is an honor!  This will be the end of our relationship though.  I need to work.  You have some very good comebacks, although you did not actually answer crap just a bunch of mumbo jumbo.  But it’s cool that you tried.  Just joking.  Yes I think I would like you a lot if I met you on the street.  I should have been a lawyer, cause I love to argue.  I believe in God because I can see him in everything around me, I can feel him, and I am sorry that you cannot.  In my work, you are right.  I do depend on science.  God has given us the knowledge to help others with science.  Like I said before, I just merely want to know what you believe in.  I mean everyone believes in something.  I could have gone on about evolution, but I would have been here all night, so I did not.  I do have to raise kids and work.  Believe me I have researched it to the ground, and I still find it interesting and bewildering As for the ape thing, evolution does boil down to coming from an ape like ancestor.  And what started that first ape…I mean the very first ape.  In Christianity, man (Adam and Eve) was first created by God.  What is the beginning of your “story”? 

    You said:  It’s as easy as not believing in leprechauns or the tooth fairy or Santa Claus.  The latter two of which, I might add, have presented a lot more evidence for their existence in my life than God ever has.

    I don’t think I have ever believed in the tooth fairy or Santa.  I knew it was mom all along, so if that is how you see them as presenting evidence then you are more naive than I thought.  Darling since you believe there is no God I think you need to know they are not real either.  Big disappointment for you I guess, no shiny new car this Christmas!  I am also Baptist Mr. Jenkins.  Good ole Southern Baptist! 
    I’m going to look more into this Bob thing, since I love to learn about other religions and customs.  Yes, I’m a reader, and I am always reading something.

    MisterMook:  Why are you getting so mad?  Just because I don’t believe in the theory of evolution?  I am very interested in it.  I also find other religions very interesting.  So don’t have an aneurysm.  This is an email, not English class, and not a research paper.  Sure, you will find fragments, and punctuation errors but I did not know I was being graded.  The most I do is spell check!  Sorry professor!  That is so juvenile to attack my grammar.  If you want someone to believe in evolution, then the best thing is to not get immature.  Have I cursed?  I didn’t think so…  Oh and I did sleep during English, I hated it!

    Julian: Now now guys. It isn’t nice to make fun of six year olds. I mean she isn’t even capable of coming here and defending herself

    I have not joined your site because I figured you would kick me off.  As, for the 6 year old thing, talk about immaturity. I’m sorry but that IS something a 6 year old would say!  Maybe you should look at your self first.  Enough said! 

    As it turns out, I think I do like all of you.  Especially you Zilch.  I hope you are doing well in Vienna, bet its pretty.  Watch out for that hail.  Gott Segnen, und passen Sie auf jenen Hagel auf! 

    And cubiclegrll, you do know your bible.  I could probably learn a lot of interpretations from you.  That could do you good on Jeopardy!  I do see your point about the killings of God, and how you would get that.  Even with people who believe in God, there are so many interpretations of the bible. For example, some say a child is at the age of accountability when they reach 13or 20.  Then some say it is when an individual feels conviction.  I personally feel that there is no age because a Down syndrome child would never feel conviction.  I would love to hear your opinion since you know so much about the bible.  I am not trying to cherry pick nothing!  I will admit to you and to everyone that there are things that I don’t quite understand.  I will not say or lie to anyone, because I have been over the same things that you all are debating with me.  Therefore, there is no reason to get testy, it just a little harmless debate.  Don’t have a myocardial infarction. 

    The same for Geekmom, I am very responsible.  I have to be with all that I put up with these days.  Work, taking kids to school, taking kids to baseball practice, cooking, and errands…. the list can go on!  So when there are times that I feel I can’t go on, I stop and pray for the strength.  It is a great pick me up.  Maybe if you did the same you would feel better.  I mean aren’t you a mom – GeekMOM? No need for reply! Therefore, don’t talk responsibility to me, especially when I have to worry about a million things everyday.  God really helps, what helps you?? What do you do when you can’t take it anymore?  All you have to do is ask for the help. 

    Last_Hussar:  Occasionally people pay a little extra, because your government and its supporters think it is better to bomb foreigners instead of providing healthcare for it’s citizens. 

    It’s just not my government, although you’re off the hook cause you are not from here but I despise that remark.  I hope you meant all the other Americans also, because I am agreeing with you!  It is very backwards.  If you remember I am a nurse.  I see it everyday.  I see thousands of people too sorry to get off their behinds and work, but yet the government pays for their healthcare.  Then I see thousands of people who work and have cancers and other diseases that can’t afford healthcare.  How can our government let these things happen? It is astonishing!  With my work and where I live, I see it everyday.  My my, you think you hit a nerve about atheism Mr. Les – well this burns me up too! 

    And I do not think your site is a scam.  Saint Matthew’s—- yes that’s a scam and it looks bad for all Christians.  I am sorry for people like that.  All believers are not like that.  There has to be a way for this government to stop that.  I give “offering” on Sundays.  Your site gets donations just like churches do.  I apologize because that is not what I meant in the beginning.   

    You may turn away from God but remember God never turns away from you.  I ask everyone out there who once believed… did something terrible happen?  Death of a child, death of a family member, 9 eleven?  I lived through Katrina.  Is that why you quit believing in God?  Well good bye all, and take care.  If you ever find yourself in the need of a friend then I’m here. Atheist or not, and seriously I am totally researching Bob.  God Bless! 

    So, this is all I have to argue because no one has actually said how WE GOT HERE!  IT JUST HAPPENED, I FORGOT!  Goodbye all! 

    P.S. I did not vote for Bush…  As for the gas prices, it’s a little cheaper here in the south (Bible Belt).  I am fairly close to many of the largest oil machinery’s and rigs; although I don’t know if that is why it is cheaper or if it will help for much longer!  And no I’m not a stripper.  There is a difference in being nice and taking your clothes off!  How degrading… isn’t that right ladies.  J

  27. Hi,

    am I the only one thinking the person responding is not the same sending in the e-mail in the first place?

    Anyway, I wanted to comment on the very single point you are making. The first “ape” was started by something like this:

    http://www.mcat45.com/images/Amino-Acid-MCAT.png

    By the way. I do really believe in something.

    I believe in science.

    Cheers

    p.s. Thanks Les and all you others. Keep it up!

    I had to alter my comment because my first link used an “ü”^^

  28. Angel Eyes, you seem to be forgetting that first of all, lawyers don’t argue (at least not in court), and second that no one wins an argument. Also, something tells me you’re not as well-read on the subject of evolution as you think you are.

    Let me know if you’re going to say anything approaching novel.

    Zilch, Barnum was wrong by an order of several magnitudes.

  29. Abiogenesis, the study of the origins of life, is a separate science than that of evolution. That’s why we ignore every single clamoring sleigh bell of “Show me the monkey” however it’s phrased. Evolution, as an observable fact, is incontestable.

    Abiogenesis, dealing with a history of the Earth going back further than nearly any other life science, is indeed muddier. The origins of life are far older than the oldest fossils and much of the original surface of the planet is literally miles under the surface of the planet by now, erasing nearly all traces of its existence. By observing other planets and forensically following existing forms through evolutionary regressions though, some basic questions about abiogenesis can be answered.

    Calling for a neat little story settled in seven days when tasked with sifting through several miles of the surface, some of which is entirely inaccessible due to the motions of continental plates, chemical change, and the simple wear of time possible when you’re talking about billions of years of motion, isn’t that simple. You’re not merely looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack. You’re looking for the remains of the needle that may or may not exist still somewhere on the planet, or possibly even the near solar neighborhood, after it has been subjected to all the forces of change possible in billions of years. Abiogenesis is much less observable and more contestable than evolution.

    A more simple, profound, and succinctly scientific observation might be proposed as this:

    We’re here. We don’t need a reason to prove that we’re here because the fact that we’re here is apparent. Given that every other facet of life has had an observable, quantifiable natural origin it follows that it is likely that every other facet of life is perfectly explainable without resorting to the supernatural.

    Our existence isn’t challenged or proposed by evolution, only our resultant form and genetic history. The very nature that most of you religious sorts choose to try to debate evolution shows a demonstrable lack of understanding of the subject.

    I’m not mad at you. I just don’t have the will to be polite with uneducated people who try to pretend they’re not. You’re all the worst sort of liars, the kind that’s subscribed to your own foolishness.

  30. It’s just not my government,

    Yes it is, that’s how citizenship of a country works.  Bush is Les’ presedent, just not someone he would ever vote for.

    And I do not think your site is a scam.

    Well the original post said

    I would never donate to your site….. talk about a scam!! What do you do with the money???

    Now either you did say it was a scam, or Les doctored the original.  However there is no easy way for us to find out- anything you or he posts could have been doctored.  However I have no reason to disbelieve him at the moment, there is no percentage in misrepresenting the original.

    Even with people who believe in God, there are so many interpretations of the bible.

    This is one of the problems many of us have- The Bible is all true, you just can not agree what that truth is.

    Here is a list of problems and poor arguements we frequently have posted.

    1) “The bible is true, ergo evolution is false.”
    —the problem is the only veracity of the Bible is the Bible.  Think of it this way “Anything I tell youis true.  You know that is correct because anything I tell you is true, so that must be true.” (Circular reasoning).  Plus as you admit, there isn’t one unifying interpretation- when you know what all of you believe is the same, come back to us.

    2) “Evolution can’t be true because of the eye/flagellum etc, ergo creation must be true”.  Assumption by creationists to prove creation—2 problems
      i) None of these claims have ever stood up, every “Hurricane in a junk yard” arguement (a 747 can’t just fall together like that, and life is more complex) is examined and shown how that path of evolution is possible (aka “what good is half an eye?”- plenty if it allows you to detect movement)
      ii) even if evolution was disproved (and there is no indication it is likely to be) that doen’t prove creation in any way- it isn’t an either/or thing.  All it shows is evolution would be wrong.  Its a bit like saying 2+2 doesnt equal 3 like you say, therefore it must equal 5 like I claim.
    2a) Special mention for the 2nd law of thermodynamics.  The Earth draws its power from the sun, therefore isn’t a closed system.  Before quoting it make sure you read the FULL quote, not the fragment beloved of creationists.

    3) “Praying helps”- Placebo effect (I won’t condesend and explain it, as you are a nurse)

    4) “No it really does, what about xxx”.  Never in a scientific study.  The ‘miracles’ happen at the same frequency whether the target is prayed for or not.  Interestingly people who make miraculous recoveries have diseases where unexplained remission is known, with or with praying.  On the other hand Google God hates Amputees- bet you never saw a limb regrow after praying.

    5) “But its all so complicated”  Doesn’t mean God did it- remember it started simple. Example. Now I can not imagine a Googleplex (A Google, it’s real meaning, not the name of a search engine, is a number- just as a million is 1 and 6 noughts, a google is 1 followed by a 100 zeros, a googleplex is 1 followed by a google of zeros), in fact no one can imagine it- it’s bigger than the number of all the particles in the known universe, BUT in reality it is simple to get there. Just keep adding ‘1’ to itself.

    6) ‘But the Earth was obviously designed for us, look how well it all fits.’  Actually we fit it- that is what survival of the fittest means- the best fitted, not the strongest.  Imagine a hole in the road, with a puddle in it- the puddle takes the shape of the hole, the hole does not fit around the puddle.

    7) “But look how well humans are made”- Lots of very poor design in the human body, eyes, teeth, prostate, testes, spine, .

    8) “Science is always being disproved” Yes, that’s what happens when people look for answers, they challenge.  Doesn’t make it bad, just means the original was working without all the facts.  Good science is corrective.  Many of the biggies were made before modern scientific method was used. Now when a scientist makes a claim he has to tell how he did it, so others can try for themselves.  This tends to find the fakes out.  Creation can not be tested, the only ‘evidence’ we have is stories from a nomadic desert tribe.

    Oh, and don’t be put off from joining- Les only bans the really obnoxious and offensive.

  31. How did man first get put on this earth.  Don’t say evolution because how did a monkey get here? I mean HELLO during caveman times the wheel was a big deal so you actually think something else could have created man!  There must be a greater power.

    Okay, as usual I will preface my comments with the fact that I’m also a Christian, though I make no claims of knowing any answers to any of the greater mysteries.

    Anyway, so here is my big problem with the entire concept of creationism or ID or whatever people choose to call it.

    The theory is that the eye, babies, bananas, ecosystems in general etc are so varied, miraculous and complex that they could not possibly have evolved. They were created by a truly all-knowing and all-powerful entity.

    My question…so where did such a great cosmic designer come from?

    I’m perfectly fine with the idea that the universe has some property that causes it to want life, and that things evolve along paths in the name of that unknown property.

    I am not fine with the “abracadabra” creation of a universe/world, by some physical or physical-enabled spiritual manifestation. Such a spirit must have come from somewhere, and thus must either have been created, or evolved, which gets either circular or contradictory in a really big hurry.

  32. Like I said before, I just merely want to know what you believe in.

    Doing my best, being my best, and encouraging the best in those who have managed to earn my friendship.

  33. Julian: Now now guys. It isn’t nice to make fun of six year olds. I mean she isn’t even capable of coming here and defending herself

    I have not joined your site because I figured you would kick me off.  As, for the 6 year old thing, talk about immaturity. I’m sorry but that IS something a 6 year old would say!  Maybe you should look at your self first.  Enough said!

     

    Ok that was a cheap shot. My apologies.

  34. With all the cheeses of the world to choose from, I still go back to Velveeta

    Whoa!  cubiclegrrl, I am shocked, shocked!  What a bitter disappointment!  You’ve just been demoted two and a half notches!  You’d better think about what you can do to get back in my good graces, grrl, or your name is mud!

    Bachalon- I’m afraid you’re right.  But I’m still somehow optimistic, because it’s more fun than being pessimistic, and history shows us that history cannot be predicted: people surprise themselves again and again.

    angel eyes- my wife has brown eyes, too, and I’m rather fond of her:  I sometimes call her “kis angyalom”,  which means “my little angel”.  I don’t believe the same as you, but you’ve got spunk, and I’m willing to bet that you are a good neighbor, and that’s what counts.  Cheers from sunny-again Vienna, zilch

  35. Frumpa- they have a similar expression in Viennese dialect: nah servas!, literally “well hello!”, but it means something more like “well I never” or “what’s this shit”.

  36. Angel Eyes writes…

    Mr. Jenkins, I would like to thank you for posting me, although I emailed you and not joined your site.  Would you kick me off of your site if I joined?

    No, I wouldn’t kick you off my site if you joined. You’ve said and done nothing to warrant that sort of action. I generally only delete comments that are spam and the occasional troll. I won’t delete comments simply because I don’t agree with what they say.

    This will be the end of our relationship though.  I need to work.  You have some very good comebacks, although you did not actually answer crap just a bunch of mumbo jumbo.  But it’s cool that you tried.  Just joking.

    Actually I provided you with a lot of answers as well as links to other threads here on SEB that directly addressed your comments such as the “have you seen your brain” question.

    As is typical, however, you’ve opted to ignore most of my reply and are going to run for the hills rather than discuss any of the points raised so far.

    You said:  It’s as easy as not believing in leprechauns or the tooth fairy or Santa Claus.  The latter two of which, I might add, have presented a lot more evidence for their existence in my life than God ever has.

    I don’t think I have ever believed in the tooth fairy or Santa.  I knew it was mom all along, so if that is how you see them as presenting evidence then you are more naive than I thought.  Darling since you believe there is no God I think you need to know they are not real either.  Big disappointment for you I guess, no shiny new car this Christmas!

    Surely you’re not so silly as to suggest that I am claiming to believe in Santa or the tooth fairy. It’s clear you’re going to read what you want in the comments left to you instead of what is actually being said. Again, this is typical of the average True Believer™.

    No point in going any further with this charade then. Not only are you immune from reality, but well insulated against even discussing it.

  37. “Nobody listens to Zathras.”

    Engaging True Believer™ is as intellectually stimulating as shooting fish in a barrel. Once in a while it’s fun to ruffle some scales, but there are so many better ways to spend one’s time…

  38. Its a bit like saying 2+2 doesnt equal 3 like you say, therefore it must equal 5 like I claim.

     

    Are you people sane. If all of creation first started with a single molecule, then who created that first single molecule not to mention the earth. As something as complex as the human body, it must be constructed by something smarter than man. If we were evolved, then why have humans stopped evolving.

  39. Are you people sane.

    I’ve always wondered, myself.

    If all of creation first started with a single molecule, then who created that first single molecule not to mention the earth.

    Atoms created that first single molecule, and atoms were created by massive bindings or collisions of energy early in the universe’s lifespan. You remember E=MC^2, right? Energy, as light, can be used to form mass. Mass can be released as light.

    It provides for you insofar as “let there be light”. But then one has to ask – with something as complicated as an all powerful deity, who created the deity? Why, a deity’s deity of course!

    See the problem here?

  40. Rob’s first mistake is in how he frames the question:

    If all of creation first started with a single molecule, then who created that first single molecule not to mention the earth.

    It’s not a question of who created the first molecule because it wasn’t created by anyone. Nor was the Earth created. It formed through a natural and well understood processes.

    As something as complex as the human body, it must be constructed by something smarter than man.

    It doesn’t have to have been constructed at all.

    If we were evolved, then why have humans stopped evolving.

    Simple answer: We haven’t stopped evolving.

  41. We haven’t stopped evolving.

    …but some of us are evolving more than others…

  42. Nor was the Earth created. It formed through a natural and well understood processes.

    Who created that well understood process. And what do we evolve into next. How have we not stopped evolving.

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