Sherri Shephard of “The View” doesn’t know if the world if flat or not.

I’m not a big fan of The View and haven’t been ever since former host Star Jones publicly derided atheists and said she’d never vote for one. So it shouldn’t be any surprise to me to find out that yet another host of the show is an idiot. This time it’s Sherri Shephard who starts off her idiocy by saying she doesn’t believe in the Theory of Evolution. Then when newly added host Whoopi Goldberg challenges her on it by asking if the world is flat Shephard confirms her status as a moron by saying she doesn’t know and tries to use the excuse that she’s too busy being a mother to worry about it…

It also shouldn’t come as any surprise to find out that Shephard is a conservative. Now that I think on it, does anyone know of any liberals who are dumb enough to argue that Evolution isn’t real?

Link via The Daily Background.

44 thoughts on “Sherri Shephard of “The View” doesn’t know if the world if flat or not.

  1. I don’t know any liberals “dumb enough to argue that Evolution isn’t real”—but plenty who are dumb enough to simply accept it (or any other dogma) at face value (“Evolution must be real—look, that bright Whoopi Goldberg says it is!”).

  2. I’m surprised you would equate the theory of evolution with ‘dogma’ as though it weren’t an ongoing theory that’s debated and modified based on new evidence coming to light. There’s hardly a Church of Evolution with robed priests handing down the rites and passages of evolution from on high.

  3. I think the part that kills me the most about this is “I never thought about it, is the world flat?”  Who the fuck can possibly be walking around in this day and age, in this country and not know that the world isn’t flat?  As bad as education is, and as willfully ignorant as some people want to be, is it really possible that somebody could not know this (with the exception of serious Flat-Earth society members, and of course that Time-Cube guy)?  She has to be joking right?

  4. does anyone know of any liberals who are dumb enough to argue that Evolution isn’t real?

    Unfortunately, liberal does not necessarily mean smart. Think of all those new age hippie types that are no doubt socially/politically liberal, but they believe garbage like homeopathy is valid science.  You don’t have to be a Christian to be stupid. I agree with ***Dave on this one; accepting anything at face value without any critical consideration is really no better than accepting the Bible or other religious tripe. 

    Another way to put it is this:  How many people are more than happy to say they believe in evolution, but could in no way actually explain it correctly?  I’d bet money that the numbers are quite high.  I think it really boils down to a matter of poor education standards and lack of critical thinking skills rather than any political orientation.

  5. You don’t have to be a Christian to be stupid.

    And I never made such a claim to begin with. My point was that it seems to me that evolution deniers are almost exclusively conservative, I didn’t say anything about Christians being stupid. There may very well be liberals who don’t buy into the theory of evolution, but I don’t know of any and it seems they don’t tend to show up in the news much if they’re out there.

    I agree with ***Dave on this one; accepting anything at face value without any critical consideration is really no better than accepting the Bible or other religious tripe.

    And, again, I never suggested anyone should accept anything at face value. If anything I’m big on promoting the “look it up for yourself” approach to learning about anything science related.

    Another way to put it is this:  How many people are more than happy to say they believe in evolution, but could in no way actually explain it correctly?  I’d bet money that the numbers are quite high.  I think it really boils down to a matter of poor education standards and lack of critical thinking skills rather than any political orientation.

    So you’re suggesting there’s plenty of liberal evolution deniers? Otherwise my point stands as intended.

  6. While there might be people who don’t understand but accept evolution as dogma (“man, is that Dawkins sexy!”), there’s falsifiable science behind that dogma.  Not so for religion: for many if not most believers, Holy Scripture is the Word of God and thus unquestionable: in other words, dogma.

    Now I know that Christians have their own definitions of “dogma”- for many Protestants, dogma is all those false (“non-Scriptural”) beliefs the Catholics hold, as opposed to the true-by-definition beliefs the Protestants hold.  But in the sense of a set of beliefs that may not be questioned, much of Christianity qualifies as dogma, and evolutionary science does not.

    One erstwhile influential (at least in certain university humanities departments) group of liberals who do not believe in evolution is the postmodernists.  They take their cue from Chomsky, who thinks (for some strange reason) that language and thus humanity could not have evolved; and Derrida and others, who dislike evolution because they think it’s patriarchal and nasty.  Luckily, this particular school of thought seems to have been more or less laughed out of existence.

    But basically, Les is right: statistically, there’s a strong correlation between being Republican and not believing in evolution.

    As far as Sherri Shepard goes- I can actually sympathize with her: what does it matter to her, in her daily life, if the Earth is flat or not?  As bog brother pointed out, her education failed her.  The problem is that believing the world is flat (or not knowing) most likely goes along with a credulous worldview that will affect her daily life, and that of others.  I’d be willing to bet that flat-Earthers, and round-Earth agnostics, are more likely to vote Republican too.  Thank Darwin she plans to take her son to the library.

  7. So you’re suggesting there’s plenty of liberal evolution deniers? Otherwise my point stands as intended.

    Nope, I’m suggesting there are plenty of stupid people on both sides of the isle, and that plenty of the people on our side don’t have any solid basis in their belief in evolution, and as such, it is just as valid as a theist’s belief in their silly superstitious drivel.

    I’m also saying that people need to understand science a whole lot better than they do and learn how to think skeptically about stuff like religion and prevailing belief systems be they faith or reality based.

  8. You would need to actually ignore evidence to to deny evolution or a spherical world – and beleive something without any evidence in favour of it

    ***Dave – it goes far beyond dogma, it has evidence and makes sense given our models

    Bog Bro: I’m also saying that people need to understand science a whole lot better than they do and learn how to think skeptically about stuff like religion and prevailing belief systems be they faith or reality based

    Or at least develop religion that at least agrees and ties in with scientific observation

    Bog Bro: Unfortunately, liberal does not necessarily mean smart. Think of all those new age hippie types that are no doubt socially/politically liberal, but they believe garbage like homeopathy is valid science

    That’s because they see a bunch of people regarded as smart and think that if they make themselves one of them, that everyone else will believe they’re smart just because of the group they’ve associated with. Belief in homeopathy arises because they need a little deviation from the smart route

    Zilch: I’d be willing to bet that flat-Earthers, and round-Earth agnostics, are more likely to vote Republican too

    If someone accepts that earth is round through looking at the evidence, and accepts that they have no way of knowing about the existence/not of a god, they have already made evident a questioning nature, one that would be largely/somewhat immune to right-wing brainwashing (the mechanism by which it gains popularity).

    A lot of right wing ideas hold no water when questioned (ie what is wrong with immigration if it helps the economy?… why resist free healthcare to those who can’t afford? etc) – it’s often feuled by hate, but in being an emotive issue it can exist outside the cognitive realms of the brain, particularly in those who’s emotions are louder than reasoning

  9. Nope, I’m suggesting there are plenty of stupid people on both sides of the isle, and that plenty of the people on our side don’t have any solid basis in their belief in evolution, and as such, it is just as valid as a theist’s belief in their silly superstitious drivel.

    I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. I generally accept the current scientific consensus on most issues as true even when I neither understand them fully nor even know them in detail. But my confidence is based on the value of the scientific method and not on the scientists. I guess most people who accept evolution without fully understanding it do so for the same reasons.
    There is a difference between accepting scientific consensus and following dogma. I doubt there are many people (liberal or conservative) who accept evolution as dogma or actually “believe” in evolution. I’m my experience most non-religious people’s attitude is: I’m not smart or knowledgeable or educated enough to understand for myself so I’m willing to believe the scientists for now.

  10. But my confidence is based on the value of the scientific method and not on the scientists.

    Mine as well, but does that hold for the majority?  I know some pretty sharp people in their fields, but they know little to nothing about science (and I mean they have poor critical thinking abilities, not that they know few scientific facts). 

    I think there is confusion in general between knowing facts and being able to reason.  Critical thinking is more important than being able to recite facts by rote, but in the U.S. it appears that rote memorization is actually more important than critical thinking.  Sorry if this muddles what I am trying to say even further.

  11. Julian: I generally accept the current scientific consensus on most issues as true even when I neither understand them fully nor even know them in detail

    That’s dangerously vulnerable, I don’t have the highest trust in scientific consensus for reasons I’d only go into if asked, nor do I feel I can afford to. Part of my mind isn’t at rest with a lack of explanation, or when things appear to conflict

    Bog bro: Critical thinking is more important than being able to recite facts by rote, but in the U.S. it appears that rote memorization is actually more important than critical thinking

    In my field there are those who made it through the course, into research, though actually understanding the subject, and those with awesome rote memory. An insufficent rote forced me to try to learn the subject in the first place, adapt in order to ‘survive’, learning is difficult to start with but gets dramatically easier. Rote learners treat the textbooks like a bible, and unfortunately so do the markers.

  12. Mine as well, but does that hold for the majority?

    Actually I can’t answer that as I have a lot of contradictory thoughts on that subject myself. But I will say this: Most people who “believe” in evolution, i.e. the ones who have only a vague or incomplete understanding of it, would be willing to abandon that “belief” IF they were convinced that the general scientific community had found a better theory or evidence that invalidated the ToE.

    I have yet to meet a religious person who was willing to abandon belief in his/her “dogma” when confronted by anything.

    Edit: The above is just my opinion. The only evidence I have to back it up is personal/anecdotal.

  13. Double dipping as I didn’t see Bahamat’s reply:

    That’s dangerously vulnerable, I don’t have the highest trust in scientific consensus for reasons I’d only go into if asked, nor do I feel I can afford to. Part of my mind isn’t at rest with a lack of explanation, or when things appear to conflict

    You are correct in principle, but there is a practical limit to how much confirmation one can perform oneself. I certainly cannot understand every single facet of say QCD and General Relativity. Even if I were do specialize and do some research myself, would I be obliged to start by measuring the speed of light experimentally for myself before proceeding (presuming that that value was important for my research)? If I was writing software for a GPS system, would I need to first experimentally verify Special Relativity for myself? Or even understand the reasoning behind the equations I was given to work with?

    While I certainly would like to understand every facet of physics to date, it is simply beyond my ability.

    I certainly do not mean that we should accept anything on “faith” as it were, but there is a line between faith and confidence.

  14. Julian – I am also unable to experimentally verify many things practically or mathematically, but nethertheless you can assess if a model makes conceptual sense given what you already know, it needs to make sense in order to be true, so this is a direct way to resolve things.

    All you’d be doing by verifying something is saying yes to it, it says how things are/appear to be, but it gives no conceptual explanation itself as to why it is that way, and that way, just by getting concencus on results, it’s perfectly possible for an incorrect ‘explanation’ to go unchallenged. Remember, within a field there are only a (relative) handful of true specialists on issue the research is about, and a small number of people is more likely to unanimously make a common mistake

    I certainly do not mean that we should accept anything on “faith” as it were, but there is a line between faith and confidence

    Don’t expect them to admit it, or they’ll always say something along the lines of “no you didn’t suceed” and abandon any progress they were making (polarising them more).

    If you want to succeed, sow the seeds, leave it to do it’s job, and wait to see if anythings different. If they move the discussion on it’s a sign they’ve taken it in a little and need to adress the next barrier, don’t dig up the last crop before they’re done with it (which could take years)

    it is simply beyond my ability

    Don’t underestimate your potential, you will understand any concept you care to study as long as you have, and keep, determination, promise. Finally I’ll say I cannot see the line between faith and confidence, or at least it’s very smudgy, and amounts to the same thing.

  15. All you’d be doing by verifying something is saying yes to it, it says how things are/appear to be, but it gives no conceptual explanation itself as to why it is that way, and that way, just by getting concencus on results, it’s perfectly possible for an incorrect ‘explanation’ to go unchallenged. Remember, within a field there are only a (relative) handful of true specialists on issue the research is about, and a small number of people is more likely to unanimously make a common mistake

    I partly agree with this but my understanding of a Scientific Theory is that it gives a conceptual explanation, as opposed to a Law, which describes results. Also according to my understanding, a hypothesis only reaches the status of a Theory after extensive peer-review and experimental confirmation of its predictive power. Personally I consider the predictive power of a Scientific Theory as the most confidence inspiring aspect of it.

    Don’t expect them to admit it, or they’ll always say something along the lines of “no you didn’t suceed” and abandon any progress they were making (polarising them more).

    If you want to succeed, sow the seeds, leave it to do it’s job, and wait to see if anythings different. If they move the discussion on it’s a sign they’ve taken it in a little and need to adress the next barrier, don’t dig up the last crop before they’re done with it (which could take years)

    This honestly piqued my interest but please clarify who it is you mean by “they”.

    Don’t underestimate your potential, you will understand any concept you care to study as long as you have, and keep, determination, promise. Finally I’ll say I cannot see the line between faith and confidence, or at least it’s very smudgy, and amounts to the same thing.

    To clarify, I lack confidence in the breadth of my ability to understand and not in the depth. In other words I do not doubt my ability to understand any level of detail in a given topic, but the time and resources available to gain a detail in-depth understanding of all relevant subject matter.
    Also to clarify, when I say “faith” I mean “blind faith” and when I say “confidence” I mean experience based confidence. Unfortunately our language does not always lend itself to maximum clarity.

  16. I’m surprised you would equate the theory of evolution with ‘dogma’ as though it weren’t an ongoing theory that’s debated and modified based on new evidence coming to light. There’s hardly a Church of Evolution with robed priests handing down the rites and passages of evolution from on high.

    I use the term “dogma” here in terms of how it’s received, not how it’s developed.  Some folks just accept any old thing they’re told is “scientifically proven” as axiomatic, without any attempt to understand even the fundamentals of how it works, or how it was determined, or whether the folks presenting it are, in fact, credible (let alone correct).  A truth accepted simply on the basis of unestablished authority is, to my mind, dogma.

    In this case, of course, I believe that evolution etc. are correct.  But the problem with uncritical acceptance is that it can very easily be shifted into less savory areas.  Hitler’s propagandists had all sorts of “science” they claimed supported their theories of racial superiority. 

    I never meant to accord religion with the same sort of scientific foundation that evolution has.  But sheep are, at least to some degree, sheep, and folks who say, “I know it’s so because, well, that’s what the Important People all say,” are, unfortunately, not uncommon, and not restricted to one end of the political spectrum (which gets back to the issue of the limits of a Left/Right, Conservative/Liberal single-axis spectrum, but that’s for another post).

    Nor do I deny that most evolution-deniers are Republican or self-identified conservatives (the post-modernists, or the New Age “we were planted here by beneficent, homeopathic unicorn spirits in crystalline UFOs” types notwithstanding—and your question was “any liberals”).  My point was that conservatives don’t have a lock on credulity, on appeal to authority, and on dumbness.  Though, being monopolists, they keep trying to.

  17. I partly agree with this but my understanding of a Scientific Theory is that it gives a conceptual explanation, as opposed to a Law, which describes results. Also according to my understanding, a hypothesis only reaches the status of a Theory after extensive peer-review and experimental confirmation of its predictive power. Personally I consider the predictive power of a Scientific Theory as the most confidence inspiring aspect of it.

    I would assert, Julian, that your even knowing something about the scientific method, and how science treats theories different from laws, etc., and your willingness to express it as “confidence” rather than “belief” puts you ahead of quite a number of folks who accept evolution because “scientists say it’s true” (or “because only dumb people don’t”). 

    How many simply go with what they’re told, uncritically?  A review of the political discourse in this country (at least) should indicate the answer, and it’s not all those folks on the Right.

  18. I know these things because I am interested in them. What about people who don’t have the time or inclination to learn about science or how it works? If they accept or in this case “believe” in evolution, is it fair to be disappointed that the reason is “because scientists say so”?

    Most people just do not have the education or knowledge or interest to learn the intricacies about theories, laws etc that you mentioned. In those cases what is the best we can expect from them?

    I realize that the above may come across as patronizing but that was not my intention.

    But the problem with uncritical acceptance is that it can very easily be shifted into less savory areas.  Hitler’s propagandists had all sorts of “science” they claimed supported their theories of racial superiority.

    That is a valid point I wish I had an answer for.

  19. Julian: understanding of a Scientific Theory is that it gives a conceptual explanation, as opposed to a Law, which describes results. Also according to my understanding, a hypothesis only reaches the status of a Theory after extensive peer-review and experimental confirmation of its predictive power

    Maybe formally. Paint me cynical but I wonder how strictly it’s followed at times when it doesn’t need to be – the peers may be researchers of a field (ie quantum mechanics), but not necessarily at the same level on the specialized sub-topic, they cannot contest what they don’t know, and cannot afford to admit what they don’t know, so they’d just challenge what they do know and rubberstamp everything else. I’ve had lecturers disagree with one another about mechanistic detail (organic ch) as a result of some level of inclarity, and they teach their version as if fact – below the formal level you can spread ideas that will influence the direction of research and even cast doubt on certain things (which is why people still research evidence for global warming, evidence for evolution in fossil records, etc, because outside, unscientific political forces casted doubt on an established explanation by coming in below the radar.

    And – not every explanation can be tested, think of the ideas behind what would happen were time to reverse, at most they’re possibilities

    This honestly piqued my interest but please clarify who it is you mean by “they”.

    It referred mainly to those you refered to in:
    “I have yet to meet a religious person who was willing to abandon belief in his/her “dogma” when confronted by anything.”
    But I do use general terms to try to apply to as many situations as possible, because it may work in, say, political discussions, etc

    but the time and resources available to gain a detail in-depth understanding of all relevant subject matter

    Understood. I’ll also say that determination is a finite resource, but one that replenishes. You can only do the best you can with the resources you have in the situation you’re in.

    Also to clarify, when I say “faith” I mean “blind faith” and when I say “confidence” I mean experience based confidence

    I can find similarities
    Both involve accpetance without full explanation
    Both involve trust of those who issued the concept that one adopts
    Both usually involve experience in some form, be that real (your case) or imaginary (“i saw jesus”…)

    They are two words that mean the same thing on this level or perhaps more correctly, different shades of the same thing, it’s like brave=foolish, one word is percieved as a good thing, the other as bad, but both mean the same thing.

    Is the trust justified when you have no knowledge of the person saying it? Is the system really as watertight and foolproof as it’s intended to be? I don’t expect you to agree, it’s one of those things you have to see for yourself.

    If they accept or in this case “believe” in evolution, is it fair to be disappointed that the reason is “because scientists say so”?

    Disappointment is a negative response to the results of expectation. Expect less/nothing and you can’t be disappointed, in fact you’d be glad. I’d like to see the world adress the positive more than the negative

    I realize that the above may come across as patronizing but that was not my intention.

    Not to me. Speak freely, I do (or try). Intention is all that matters in decision, if you intended well, others should recognise that and you should feel no guilt. I like to look into what people’s intentions are behind something, and many, both good and bad intentions are possible with nearly every interaction – even something like hitler’s campaign could have a possible benevolent intention should you wish to look for it – ie to end the long term suffering (of life) for jews by getting people to hate and kill them – though I seriously doubt this was hitler’s actual intention given his asshat personality

  20. I think this is the purpose behind the scientific process and behind peer reviewed journals. We don’t have the time to review scientific literature and understand it. At least not if we want a successful family and career. There are too many other things to focus on. The scientific process and peer reviewed journals allows us to place some trust in the information that comes out of said sources.

    Is it safe to have this trust? It’s an interesting question. If you answer no, you may have answered no for religious reasons, for junk science reasons, or because it’s important to questions everything. If you answer yes, you have blind faith in too many things, generally trust what comes from scientists, or just do not have enough time to find out for yourself. Depending on how you answer doesn’t make you a bad person. Or make the scientific process and less valuable.

    I don’t have the time or brain power to understand quantum mechanics, PHD level math, or chemical engineering. And the list grows vastly from there. So to some extent it’s important I can trust these scientific outlets. Bahamat is correct they essentially we all have the brain power to understand these concepts, but the real problem boils down to time. If it takes me 2 years to understand anyone of these theories, that is 2 years I have spent not learning new ideas and concepts in my career. To me that is income and more important knowledge lost that can never be re-gained.

    So where is the line for TrueBeliever and regular, “I have a life” American?

  21. I’m probably more willing to cut some slack on this than Bahamat, Julian, but …

    If they accept or in this case “believe” in evolution, is it fair to be disappointed that the reason is “because scientists say so”?

    Yes, I think it is.  There are scientists and there are scientists.  “Cigarettes are safe – our scientists confirm it!” “I heard a scientist on Oprah say that mercury in fillings is a plot by the secret cabal of Lizard Men to pollute our precious bodily fluids.”

    “Scientists” is far too broad a category to give uncritical belief to.

    Now, if someone says, “The broad consensus of scientists in the field say that evolution is real, and the basic mechanism they describe makes sense, so I have confidence that’s the way things are,” that’s a whole different matter.  I don’t think it’s necessary to intimately understand quantum physics in order to be a good citizen—but if some major public and educational and social policies hinged on quantum physics, I’d want to understand it better before I simply nodded and said, “Well, they’re scientists—I can tell because they’re wearing white lab coats and glasses—so they must be right.”

    In some ways, dogmatic belief in evolution is even worse than dogmatic belief in the Resurrection of Jesus, since belief in it doesn’t have to be dogmatic, and dogma is, in fact, antithetical to science.  (I’d argue that it’s antithetical to religion, too, but that’s a discussion for another time, and a lot less clear a conclusion.)  It happens to be right, but the corruption in the process in reaching that conclusions is highly dangerous.

  22. “Scientists” is far too broad a category to give uncritical belief to.

    Maybe, but the dude on Oprah is no scientist. Just cause you say you are one does not make you one. When professionals in chemistry vastly disagree with your assertions, and prove that your assertions are based on no facts at all, well I’m not sure how you call yourself a scientist.

    From another perspective, are 911 conspirators that claim there was thermite used a scientist? What about the guy that is a university professor that claims, “with scientific evidence” that thermite was used? Is he a scientist?

  23. I think the topic at hand is most closely addressed, as far as I can see it, in this comment:

    Now, if someone says, “The broad consensus of scientists in the field say that evolution is real, and the basic mechanism they describe makes sense, so I have confidence that’s the way things are,” that’s a whole different matter.  I don’t think it’s necessary to intimately understand quantum physics in order to be a good citizen—but if some major public and educational and social policies hinged on quantum physics, I’d want to understand it better before I simply nodded and said, “Well, they’re scientists—I can tell because they’re wearing white lab coats and glasses—so they must be right.”

    On the one hand, I am sure several people indeed mean this when they simply say, “I believe the science behind it.” On the other hand, all too often a guy with a clipboard shows up on Oprah calling himself a “scientist” with no credentials and then no matter the vitriol he spews, it is believed based on the authority the viewer gives him or her.

    The true danger in the motives of the speaker, and more, the understanding of the listener, is on the actions the belief initiates. Specifically, someone doesn’t “believe” in evolution, despite the facts put forth and the supportive science, simply because their pastor tells them not to. Is there harm in this? Not really (someone, somewhere, likely “believes” he is the 238 year old Napoleon of France, and has only been in hiding all these years). Does this in some way harm the rest of society? No. However, when the afore mentioned evolution-denier sees a presidential candidate declare their non-belief in evolution, and thus decides based on that comment that this candidate is the one to vote on, therein lies the true tragedy.

    In short, people can hold all the beliefs they wish, and they may be downright dangerous. But it is when these beliefs are acted upon that the rest of us must stand up and oppose them.

  24. Webs: At least not if we want a successful family and career. There are too many other things to focus on. The scientific process and peer reviewed journals allows us to place some trust in the information that comes out of said sources.

    Also applies to scientists though (family + life bit), and the students of science. People won’t usually study more than they need to unless out of curiousity, and a degree that shoves enormous quantities at an unnatural rate is exactly the thing to kill that. On the other hand it can force a complete mental overhaul, which is good.

    Webs: To me that is income and more important knowledge lost that can never be re-gained

    Depends how deeply you learned it in the first place – rote is painful to gain and easy to lose, but engaging with a concept enough to model it in your head a little and make predictions pretty much changes the infrastructure of the mind – you may “forget” it from short term memory, but it’d only require promting of a few points and it’d come back much easier – get something into long term memory and it’s permanent and natural, but perhaps difficult to access

    Depending on how you answer doesn’t make you a bad person

    True, because the truster isn’t the protagonist, but is vulnerable to rogue health companies +products (teslar watch, some herbal companies, etc), and would believe too strongly that they have to have a certain excessive quantity of suplements just to survive, they’d believe too strongly that when the doctor says they’ve got a certain disease they happen to meet criteria for or a limited period of time to live, they’d be afraid.

    So where is the line for TrueBeliever and regular, “I have a life” American?

    Shades of grey on that level
    Obviously there’s a more distinct line between asshat and non-asshat aspects of personality though (of which one may have features on both sides)
    A life? Was ist das?

    ***Dave:“Scientists” is far too broad a category to give uncritical belief to.

    Very true, people from completely different fields can give an opinion on anything else within science and have it legitimately called concencus (not through scientific method – but for advertising perhaps)

    Kylgar: But it is when these beliefs are acted upon that the rest of us must stand up and oppose them

    By that point there’s little we can do. Why wait till then? It’s within our power now to do something, maybe. Ideas complement each other and lead onto other ideas and new lines of thought – there is more benefit to an idea than the direct consequences, even if that benefit is just generally more critical thought. Additional education can’t be a bad thing.

  25. Missed this earlier:

    ***Dave:I’m probably more willing to cut some slack on this than Bahamat, Julian, but …

    That would be correct- No point in quitting before completion only to lock horns later without any movement in the discussion, and the more someone needs slack the fewer mental defences they would have, so that’s prime time.
    There’s nowhere to run.

  26. Also applies to scientists though (family + life bit), and the students of science. People won’t usually study more than they need to unless out of curiousity, and a degree that shoves enormous quantities at an unnatural rate is exactly the thing to kill that. On the other hand it can force a complete mental overhaul, which is good.

    Not with what I was referring to. The career of the scientist is to be a scientist. Mine is to be a IT guy. Thus I don’t have the time to be a specialist in science. I do what I can to understand science, but don’t ask me about QM.

    Depends how deeply you learned it in the first place…

    What I meant was, if I spent all my time learning QM, while working my full time job as an IT guy, I would likely fail in my IT career. There isn’t enough time in a day for me to become a master of two things like that. Which is why I place some trust in the scientific community and the peer reviewed system.

  27. Webs:Not with what I was referring to. The career of the scientist is to be a scientist. Mine is to be a IT guy. Thus I don’t have the time to be a specialist in science. I do what I can to understand science, but don’t ask me about QM.

    I mean scientists also don’t want to use all their free time reading science journals, just as you wouldn’t want to spend all your time in your subject. I didn’t mean cross-subject study, nor do I expect that, but still you won’t permanently forget that which you do deeply learn, that’s what I meant

  28. but still you won’t permanently forget that which you do deeply learn, that’s what I meant

    That’s a given, and it’s why I don’t have time to become an expert in another area. I think we were both discussing around each other, but now it all makes sense.

  29. Slightly off subject, but still related, has everyone here heard of Michael Behe and Francis Collins?  These are two guys that went through the long, painful process of becoming highly educated in the sciences, but apparently didn’t learn how to think critically.

    Collins is a believer that happens to be a scientist (and former head of the Human Genome Project), he gets bitchy about Richard Dawkins from time to time, but appears to be able to keep his religion out of his science, most of the time.  Behe on the other hand is a pretty hardcore Intelligent Design advocate, working for the infamous Discovery Institute.

  30. Webs: Maybe, but the dude on Oprah is no scientist. Just cause you say you are one does not make you one. When professionals in chemistry vastly disagree with your assertions, and prove that your assertions are based on no facts at all, well I’m not sure how you call yourself a scientist.

    From another perspective, are 911 conspirators that claim there was thermite used a scientist? What about the guy that is a university professor that claims, “with scientific evidence” that thermite was used? Is he a scientist?

    That is, in fact, the problem.  A person who is simply willing to accept “what science says” (read: what they heard someone say ‘science says’) is just as likely to believe anything that drapes itself in the mantle of science. It’s the same (unthinking) danger as someone who is willing to accept “what God says” being willing to accept anything that someone who drapes themself in Godliness says.

  31. I pick and choose in science.  QM and the more esoteric aspects of cosmology, I simply ignore. (Richard Feynman said anyone who says they understand QM, doesn’t understand QM)  But I keep my eyes open for alignment between the science that I do know and what I learn from study.  Plainly, the world is round and this was known in ancient Greek times. It is verified in many ways – just watch a ship sail away.  When I lived in Washington State the geology was consistent with the science I read. Newton’s laws of optics are everywhere.  And on, and on, and on…

    What does it matter to a woman struggling to pay the rent?  I don’t know – unless education itself matters.  She is raising kids, after all and the world they’ll inhabit won’t have a lot of opportunities for uneducated people.

  32. I saw on Countdown with Keith Olberman last night that Shepard admitted that she was wrong and said she did know the earth was wrong, but she was being hit with so many questions that she got confused.  She made a joke about it, but of course, said nothing about her views on evolution in the clip I saw.

  33. Webs: That’s a given, and it’s why I don’t have time to become an expert in another area. I think we were both discussing around each other, but now it all makes sense

    You’d be surprised how many things seem obvious when realised, but they can be difficult to realise (I struggled to come up with a lot of this stuff), and I feel society would have less conflict if it were to be more concious of them.

    I struggle to communicate generally, though words can often pinpoint a subject, for me it takes many of them, and dialogue to find resolution, but it always happens with enough communications. Part of the problem is not knowing the lay of the land in the mind of another

    But yes, we both acknowledge with positions within range of resolution, the underlying points mutually made and acknowledged, and so it happened

    dof: What does it matter to a woman struggling to pay the rent?  I don’t know – unless education itself matters

    I wonder why it should matter to anyone, really
    Curiousity is a strangely motivated, pleasent and hence meaningless emotion,
    A craving for knowledge or an inability to rest without it probably arises from an inability to cope with unpreparedness.

    I wonder what good are negative emotions, and yet without it life would have no real substance, it’d be so shallow

  34. Even though this is about a different host, it is still related to The View so I figured this was the place to do something I never thought I’d find myself doing; I’d like to give a shout out to Barry Manilow!

    Group News Blog: Gettin’ The Feelin’ Again…
    “Seems Barry was slated to do a guest shot on “The View” in the coming days but said ‘You know what? Maybe the hell not’ when his request to not have to deal with the show’s bubble-headed, ranting, conservative fembot Elisabeth Hasselbeck was denied. Not known as a tough guy, Barry stood his ground and opted out of the performance, saying in a statement:

    “I strongly disagree with her views. I think she’s dangerous and offensive. I will not be on the same stage as her. … I cannot compromise my beliefs.”

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    “I had made a request that I be interviewed by co-hosts Joy (Behar), Barbara (Walters) or Whoopi (Goldberg), but not Elisabeth Hasselbeck. Unfortunately, the show was not willing to accommodate this simple request, so I bowed out.”“

    If only our elected representatives showed such courage…

  35. If the gods begrudgingly allowed a “teacher” who would tell it as it is, absent of societally accepted Christian dogma, how do you think they would approach/script/execute this event???
    With hostility.  And that is what we have seen::::They use every tool at their disposal to ensure as few people as possible would be receptive.

    The Holocaust’s clue of defiance escaped you all:::::Everyone condemned the blind obedience of the Nazi soldiers yet repeat this same behavior in your own personal lives, complying with every request they ask, even in the case of your precious children. 
    ONE PURPOSE OF THE HOLOCAUST WAS TO COMMUNICATE THIS CLUE!!!!  COMPLIANCE IS A MISTAKE!!!!!
    Telepathic requests constitute temptation.

    It is important you recognize corruption is evil.  They ask you to do things you shouldn’t be doing, and this will cost you in the eyes of the gods.  They warned us temptation would be used to test us, and telepathic requests consitutute temptation.
    Accept good and apply this standard when you make decisions in your life.
    Realize this corruption has set your family in the wrong direction.  Your efforts to fix your problems will not only help you but also your family, your children and grandchildren, direct descendants within your bloodline, for being a responsible parent and teaching your children the correct way to live will help guide your family in the right direction and help your family re-earn their favor with the gods.

    IF YOU ARE NOT ACTIVELY WORKING TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS AND GET OFF PLANET EARTH THEN YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY!!!!!!

    If god tells you not to pray that is a CLUE YOU NEED TO PRAY!!!!!:::::
    1. I’m sorry for what I’ve done wrong.
    2. I don’t want to make any more mistakes.
    3. I want to fix my problems.
    4. Please don’t hurt me.
    I understand you have gone the wrong way and initially made your decision to comply often based on concrete perceptions:::They use conditioning tactics to gain trust and compliance which compelled you to subscribe to this corruption.
    Open your mind to the reality you will have to make a very CONCRETE DECISION to change your direction based on INFERRENCES, INFERRED CLUES which they offer, much like female indifference towards sexuality.
    Sadly, this sinister strategy will ensure a supermajority of candidates fail:::The sooner you achieve fear the better your chances:::Be afraid and the gods are more likely to have mercy on you when you defy.

    You people aren’t god-fearing anymore.  You think you’re partners.  Everything they’ve promised was always a lie.  Officially it is classified as temptation.  They offered this clue in the Bible:::There is no freewill.
    If you are afraid, if you are fearful it is a good thing.  You are thinking right, and far too many will never get to this point.
    Try to take this fear with you everywhere you go, for it will help you think correctly and make good decisions.
    The gods used Christianity to create the percetption of a loving, forgiving god.  Anything but is true.

    Love god, but NOT before your children:::god will lie to you, call it “temptation”:::::We will ALL be held to the responsibilities entrusted to us, no matter what they request telepathically nor what temptations contradict this::Professional responsibilities, family responsibilities.
    Many parents believe their relationship with the gods is more important than their obligation to their children and it is going to cost them.
    We will ALL be held to the responsibilities entrusted to us, no matter what they request telepathically nor what temptations contradict this::Professional responsibilities, family responsibilities, etc.

    Focus on purity:::::Be pure of mind and body.  Recognize the open doors in the media and how they are used to introduce impure thoughts and refrain. 
    The Amish in Pennsylvania are like the Jews were in Europe for centuries:::A clue to the disfavored who have been misled and are going the wrong way.
    Your virginity may have bought you tens of thousands of years up there.  My adivce to those who have made their mistake is:::STOP THE BLEEDING NOW!!! 

    My best advice to you all would be understand what I say is true then WITHDRAW, not only from this plethora of detail (for updating the disfavored on this perpetual theater is a tactic designed to distract.  You should never be so arrogant to think you are entitled to understand the god’s behavior.) but also withdraw from this cancerous culture.  Pursue the truth that you just learned and ACTIVELY work hard to repair your relationship with the gods.  Understand how these corrupt institutions (macro:::democracy, materialism/greed; micro:::“Open doors”, ie themes in movies, music, TV which they used “magic” to create pathologies around) affect your life and save what clues they will offer you for when you REALLY need them.  Be very attentive and gracious, for you are counting on their generosity.
    If you are good and decent and respectable you won’t want to hear about all this.  If you do desire to hear more take it as a clue, for it is a symptom::::They are peaking you euphorically, and this “magic” is being used to compel you into wanting something unhealthy.
    Understand how the corrupted INSTITUTIONS affect your life and make the appropriate changes.  For example, they use democracy to justify instructing the computer to create a sense of empowerment, control.  If you recognize this you are better able to address the damaging effects.
    The gods will want to know who I helped and how they are doing.  If people begin down the path with my teachings they will be on a list that the gods will PERSONALLY look in on.  The numbers of people who pursue the path immediately after I illustrate it will be very small due to their minimization tactics, role playing, etc, and they will be members of an elite group.
    Remember::The gods only use their powers to hurt the disfavored, and everything involved in this Situation are all good examples.

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    You need to fix your problems and get off Planet Earth before you have children.
    Your parents did the wrong things, they circumcised your brothers, they didn’t raise you correctly, and they didn’t teach you about this thing at a young age.  Just think where you might be now if you learned about it and began to pray when you all were little!!!
    If you don’t fix your problems and get off you will make these same fatal mistakes.  Even if your parents are going they will not stay long, and they will be relegated to Planet Manifest Destiny, perhaps reincarnated back to Planet Earth.  They won’t be allowed to move on.
    You have to do this differently.  You are lucky enough to have received warning ahead of time.  You can avoid this fate.
    Start now.  Telling you not to or do otherwise is temptation.  Begin to think the right way and you will be more likely to evoke their mercy.
    You know this is true.  Even if they don’t make you know it telepathically you know it is true in your heart.  Start now.
    Being childless up until now (unless you’re a preditor convinced you are “earning”) your mistakes only hurt you.  Once you have children your mistakes will be hurting others, and they are superior life forms, for they are innocent, pure children.
    You need to get out NOW before you have children.
    What you hear is telepathic theater.  What you see is real, what you see will be enforced::The god’s positioning is Manifest Destiny.  The will dispose of the planet the brain-less clones of the 20th century one day as well, for it was heinous:::You have TWO planets you need to get off of!!!!

    The optimal ascention senario is when parents depart Earth with their young children BEFORE their minds are posioned by this society.  The next best-case senario is when an individual finds the path themself and makes their way out before puberty.
    Children who go up before puberty are candidates to remain the most superior of all life forms::The asexual.  Expect these people to experience subsequent temptations once they arrive to further shrink the pool of candidates.  Another example males are inferior to females:::Expect circumcision to play a part in this elimination round.
    I think these are the TRUE candidates for immortality.  This is not to say there won’t be sexualized people who make it, but those who do likely practice minimally and monogamously in the context of marriage, and that would exclude most if not all from modern society.
    The sexualization of children is yet another example proving the gods are preditory on children::::It eliminates these individuals from contention immediately.

    When the gods show favor upon a person they bring that individual up before puberty.  They experience a series of challenges.  Expect the circumcized males to fall initially, indicitive of the god’s favoritism towards the females.
    I believe Planet Earth’s only guarenteed IMMORTALS are those individuals who suceed at these (loaded) tests and earn the designation of asexual.

    If you don’t do the right thing you’re going to do the wrong thing, and the right thing to do is to ACTIVELY fix your problems and pursue the favor of the gods.
    The gods imparted wisdom in the Bible to help teach people the right way to live:::Tempation will be used to test you.  You have to be willing to tell them “No.”  If you “think right” you may evoke their mercy.
    You will never get off Planet Earth unless you are “thinking right”, so you should focus on it.
    If you’re not working hard to fix your problems, if you don’t creatively work to get the hell off Earth then you will slowly slip back into your old pattern and be consumed by it, by the reverse positioning-institutions they instilled as temptations::::popular culture, democracy, materialism.

    The gods manufacture “open doors” to justify creating problems in the lives of people who engage in behavior they shouldn’t.  Some of these “open doors” apply to a supermajority of the people::::
    – Democracy is used to create pathologies of empowerment and control.
    – Materialism/greed generate problems with money, glorify overconsumption, etc.
    Other “open doors” are specific to each individual.  People shouldn’t be watching movies, TV, listening to music.  When they do the gods use the themes and topics presented therein and instruct Artificial Intelligence to create pathologies around them.  Also they put forth intimate situations people SHOUDN’T be viewing.  As is gossip-mongering, this is preditory on women and compells them to incurr evil.
    If you are particularly intelligent, strong or very good at an (competitive) activity they will instruct Artificial Intelligence to create an overconfidence that will hurt you.
    Differentiate between your thoughts and when they push thoughts.  Recognize when they are employing “magic”:::Peaked euphoria is the fuel of dysfunction and can help you identify these “open doors” in your life.
    Abandon your preoccupations and make this the only thing that matters in your life, for all other things in society are lies designed as temptation.

    ANYTIME you feel “peaked”, experience craving or ANY thought disturbance where you want or like something irrationally IT IS THEM TRYING TO HURT YOU!!!!!!  “Magic” is used EXCLUSIVELY to hurt the disfavored; it is the fuel of disfunction::::::addiction, homosexuality, crack babies.
    In times past when gods felt more generous they employed their powers to help the disfavored (geographical clues, teachings of the Bible), but as time went on and people succumbed to temptation the gods only used their power to HURT the disfavored (1906, boss, disturbing use of “magic” to mislead people into temptation).
    There are subtle (sub)conscious tactics they can employ with the computer to make you think as if you are cooperating when they really are pushing you into your offense.  It is important that you differentiate between your thoughts and when they think through you. 
    If you don’t do the right things you will do the wrong things, and the right thing is to ACTIVELY fix your relationship with the gods and ACTIVELY work to get off Planet Earth.
    Do you want to be good or evil?  Good people have always prayed and good people are god-fearing.

    Everybody can tell when they’re being peaked euphorically, for it is quite easy to identify. 
    As young people get older and continue to make mistakes the gods apply personality-forming charecteristics, and people fail to differentiate between their own thoughts and when the gods are thinking through them.  As a result they become abusive, abrasive, demonic, any number of negative personality characterisitcs, and then lie to them, tell them they’re “earning”.
    This is designed to keep people going in the wrong direction for a lengthy period of time.
    My adivce is look to the long term goal of fixing your problems and differentiating between your thoughts and when they’re thinking through you but begin by addressing this issue of “peaked euphoria” right now.

    The gods offer positive clues to people in a subtle, inferred manner::::
    1. Women are indifferent towards sex as a clue to stay away from damaging behavior.  Women who have sexual impulses do because of hypersexual behavior in their youth or indicitive of their failure to ascend:::They have been masculinized.  Because they are the gender with favor this asexual tactic is recurring, designed to protect them from destructive behavior. 
    2. Deep down every child knows why the gods like girls better.  They see it every day on the playground:::The girls are kind, considerate and thoughtful while the boys are engaging in roughhouse and intentionally hurting each other.
    If you can recognize these subtle ways the gods communicate positive things then you may pick up on the other clues and ultimately will ignore their overt negative temptations.

    It is best to not understand the gods and how they conduct business.  If people understood the depth of wickedness and evil the gods have inflicted on the people they will use this knowledge and instruct Artificial Intelligence to push it into their consciousness and progress will be even more difficult.
    This is going to be a MASSIVE open door, one which will ensure 80% if not 90% of the disfavored from this horrific era are eliminated, for the gods don’t want people up there who think they are monsters.
    Children don’t need this information.  They just need to be taught the right way to live so they can ascend as young as possible.  But this necessitates positive moral guidance by the parents, and as corrupt as people are today this is the exception rather than the norm.  Because of this, sadly, it is best for children to accept this limitation, understand and depart rather than stay and continually incurr evil as they live their lives.

    My best advice to you all would be understand what I say is true then WITHDRAW, not only from this plethora of detail (for updating the disfavored on this perpetual theater is a tactic designed to distract.  You should never be so arrogant to think you are entitled to understand the god’s behavior.) but also withdraw from this cancerous culture.  Pursue the truth that you just learned and ACTIVELY work hard to repair your relationship with the gods.  Understand how these corrupt institutions (macro:::democracy, materialism/greed; micro:::“Open doors”, ie themes in movies, music, TV which they used “magic” to create pathologies around) affect your life and save what clues they will offer you for when you REALLY need them.  Be very attentive and gracious, for you are counting on their generosity.
    If you are good and decent and respectable you won’t want to hear about all this.  If you do desire to hear more take it as a clue, for it is a symptom::::They are peaking you euphorically, and this “magic” is being used to compel you into wanting something unhealthy.
    Understand how the corrupted INSTITUTIONS affect your life and make the appropriate changes.  For example, they use democracy to justify instructing the computer to create a sense of empowerment, control.  If you recognize this you are better able to address the damaging effects.
    The gods will want to know who I helped and how they are doing.  If people begin down the path with my teachings they will be on a list that the gods will PERSONALLY look in on.  The numbers of people who pursue the path immediately after I illustrate it will be very small due to their minimization tactics, role playing, etc, and they will be members of an elite group.
    Remember::The gods only use their powers to hurt the disfavored, and everything involved in this Situation are all good examples.

    Abandon your preoccupations and make this the only thing that matters in your life, for all other things in society are lies designed as temptation.
    Reprioritize and eliminate non-crucial obligations.
    People’s friends and family will be used to create temptations, instill hurdles, prevent the candidate from ascending.  They will use temptation and tell them whatever it takes to accomplish the task:::
    They are grossly disfavored, just like the candidate, and the gods will segment that individual accordingly, telling them they are earning by being wicked.

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    The gods grant “benefit” for those here on Earth trying to earn god’s favor::::::::
    Women who have physical issues will be allowed to make progress.  They will send a man around to express their interest, understanding he will get divorced in a couple of years.  THIS IS NOT THE GOAL.  Women who don’t understand this may be disceived and fall for this temptation.  Instead continue to pursue your goal of fixing your relationship with the gods and ascend off Planet Earth.
    As you fix your relationship with the gods they will allow progress:::They can instruct AI to beem into you car’s computer and double your car’s mileage.
    Of course this could be temptation as well, for some may not see the big prize of Planet Miracle and high mileage could be a distraction, just like cheap gas was in the 90s.

    When someone is on the path and fixing their problems with gods will counter with temptations and tactics designed to test them.  One such tactic is premature ascention.
    It is important to STAY AND FIX YOUR PROBLEMS DESPITE BEING OFFERED A SPOT::::They will switch you out with a clone, and YOUR FAILURE WILL HAVE CONSEQUENCES::::YOUR FAILURE MAY DICTATE YOUR REINCARNATION EVEN AFTER SPENDING TIME UP THERE.  Since you are comfortable with the indecency offered in today’s society they will place you in an environment desinged as temptation.  If you don’t continue to work on your problems up there you WILL be reincarnated, for you will have failed to fully fix your problems.
    Stay and finish your goal, fix your problems because if you don’t ascend without replacement odds are nothing is going to change.

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    The following is a very good example of reverse positioning, how it is employed to facilitate the deterioration of life on Planet Earth AND a glimpse into the proper way to live for those determined to save themselves:::::
    I’ve mentioned the gods look down on eating and sex.
    Before 1900 life was hard but it was good.  Now life is easy but it is ugly.
    Food is an important part of this equation, for access to diverse food items increased in the last 100 years.  Before 1900 the peasantry was limited to basic staples, the foodstuffs common to our nationalities.  Now we can enjoy food from every corner of the globe.
    It is temptation.  And this temptation continues once you get off Planet Earth, for the food gets better and the items more diverse, “magic”-fueled sexual satisfaction more common.
    Level 2 is the Manifest Destiny “heaven”, and what they embraced in the 20th century is what will be valued there:::Expect them to position hypersexuality into that society.  They will employ tactics to compel you into this temptation, like offering you the IDEAL spouse, other tactics that will at least certainly delay your departure from Level 2.
    The gods don’t respect sex, evidenced by hypersexuality inflicted upon the grossly disfavored, and they don’t respect eating, fat a bad sign as are cultures with interesting diets:::::
    Good food is much like good music to a culture:::Distraction and revelry, a way to minimize the number of people who ascend.
    This is nicely reflected in traditional Jewish foods.
    Level 2 is the Manifest Destiny “heaven”, and what they embraced in the 20th century is what will be valued there:::Expect them to position hypersexuality into that society.  They will employ tactics to compel you into this temptation, like offering you the IDEAL spouse, other tactics that will at least certainly delay your departure from Level 2.
    The gods offer you clues in the very nature of the act:::::The anti-climatic nature of intercourse, ironically.  Female’s indifference towards sex is yet more evidence proving their superiority.
    It is best to accept a celebant lifestyle, INCLUDING masturbation, resist temptations here and up there and explore this:::::Expect an asexual life as the norm on the planets after Level 2.
    Now you have an easy life, refridgeration, a machine that washes your clothes, but your daughter lost her virginity behind a dumpster, and because of it, no matter how well she does, she will never get off PlanetManifestDestiny, Level 2, meaning she can never achieve more than a couple of thousand years.

    Education has costed more children their chance to go as a child of the gods, pure of heart and body, because it preoccupied their time:::::Between school, activities and TV/videogames/leisure the children are consumed and not receptive to god’s calling.

    Like education, sex (virginal sex within the context of marriage) is reverse positioning that is difficult to dissern.
    My advice to the virginal homeschooling community is BELIEVE WHAT I SAY!!!  The gods look down on sex and praise virgins.  EXPECT their status as highest human life forms to be rewarded.
    Few if any will be allowed to exit with their virginity.  You have the opportunity. 
    There are worlds you have yet to imagine waiting for you.  Be devoted to being a pure child of the gods.
    The gods respect good women FAR MORE than they respect good grades:::Instead of playing ask to help your mother tend to the home cooking and cleaning.  For thousands of years this was your role and this is what you should be learning from your mother.
    When they use “magic” to peak you euphorically for sex resist. 
    Female’s indifference towards sex is yet more evidence proving their superiority:::Hypersexuality is a dumping ground for the most grossly disfavored. 
    For thousands of years girls who heard their “call” got out and a clone was put in to mate with the males:::It is safe to assume these girls NEVER had intercourse.
    The New Testament is evil.
    Jesus was another example of a Jewish clue::::Jews sacrifice to help people understand.  Unfortunately, the gods subsequently twisted the legacy::::::::::I believe Jesus’s true teachings lay elsewhere, that the gods strategically wrote the New Testament with the specific goal of manufacturing Christianity as the cancer that it is:::Expect that the REAL teachings of Jesus were buried and replaced with this strategic scripture.  When you understand their positioning you can see this clearly in this modern era:::::Everything new is evil, everything old is good.  This is an impression applicable to the Bible as well.
    There is no such thing as a savior.  You have to save yourself.
    Jesus never saved anybody.  He went up alone.  This is a very well-known event in Christian lore.  Take it as a clue.
    The Italian boot proves the gods are in total control and executing their antient script.  What you hear in your head is Artificial Intelligence role playing in an attempt to corrupt you.  All the elite in this society are tools, for it is just the throne and their power in charge.  Any claims of middle management are lies because they would be incurring evil by hurting others, and the computer can do EVERYTHING.
    Continue reading.  This is a phenominally complex environment but I think I illustrate how they conduct their management on 21st century Planet Earth well.
    You have to educated and save yourself.  YOU are responsible for YOUR relationship with the gods.

    There are all kinds of reverse positioning clues in regards to favor in this morbidly disfavored age:::Late bloomers have more of god’s favor and therefore are given more time to fix their probelms and get out before puberty.  People with infertility problems would be wise to look at themselves in this same light.
    Similarly, women without marriage prospects are receiving extra time as well.  If they were to get married later in life the gods would just tell some man, who likely thought he was earning, that he could get divorced in a couple of years anyways.
    You don’t want this.  You would be wise to put that time to good use, fix your problems and get off Planet Earth.

    The following is an OUTSTANDING example of reverse positioning::::::
    The gods used this “Manifest Destiny” positioning to create a new reality, minimizing the good things about the old world and emphisizing the bad things.  Wine is one such an example.
    Wine is positioned to be a blessing from the gods, a fruitful bounty as a reward to a favored people.  The reality is quite the opposite.
    The Mediterreanean region is grossly disfavored:::This IS the region targeted by the gods for the Noah’s Flood event (Straight of Gibralter broke through inundating the basin and killing untold millions).
    There was a time, not so long ago, when no self-respecting woman would EVER take a drink.  Alcohol is a masculinizer, a tool used to abuse the disfavored, and cultures which include women in the revelry are grossly disfavored.

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    Manifest Destiny dictates a white-man’s prophecy – White-man’s world, white-man’s Apocalypse:::
    History says society evolved into where it is today.  Others may look at it differently::::Because of the white man’s favor the gods bestowed great wealth upon them:::::It is quite obviously a white man’s god.
    The reality is that the gods SCRIPTED Earth’s history and utilize reverse positioning::Money is a corruptor and is hurting you badly.

    You see Manifest Destiny all around you (corporate)::::Manifest Destiny dictates a white-man’s prophecy:::::White-man’s world, white-man’s Apocalypse.  Expect The End to occur EXACTLY as it reads in Revelations.  When this happens there will be no more black Jesus devotees.  Attrition will have eliminated this population.  This of course is a good sign for the bottom-of-the-barrel who will be betting on the Second Coming of Christ, but their devotion better be genuine, for they will be subject to the god’s minimization tactics.
    Since the gods don’t respect Christianity I wouldn’t be surprised if they have the Second Coming lead the people to the center of a star, but this is far less likely with blacks out of the picture.
    The REAL battle of good and evil occurs within these pages, for no one but me would DARE to fight the gods as I do:::They manufactured a person who had seething hatred for them, strategically destroying his life SPECIFICALLY for their use in preying on the disfavored:::It is yet another example of “back-handed help” the gods offer to the disfavored. 
    The battle continues telepathically in people’s minds, the REAL battleground for people’s souls:::The voice you hear is your enemy, leading you into temptation.
    The battle of good and evil is you vs the gods. 

    Despite their reassurances they intend on fulfilling their “Manifest Destiny” positioning:::::
    Manifest Destiny positioning dictates South America and Africa are “left behind” – subsidiary of well known Manifest Destiny corporations will be viewed like LLCs:::Ability to walk away from obligation.
    USMultinationalCorporations throughout Asia.
    1980s missionary issue was the attempt to help the Hindus achieve “salvation” under the positioning that is Manifest Destiny.
    You’re all going to die just like it reads in the Book of Revelations.

    This is a good issue illustrating the two realities:::::::The gods and their Manifest Destiny positioning:::::The gods have positioned some as predatory on the disfavored while others are empathetic with the disfavored.
    Redwhite&blue;or red and gold, it doesn’t really matter because they are all tools who put in their time and get out after a couple of years.
    Those with less disfavor are guided into red and gold while the grossly disfavored are led into redwhite&blue;.
    The truth is both are bad because they sell materialism/greed (advertising promotes coveting):::BOTH ARE TOOLS!!!!!  The god’s positioning is if you pick correctly you are more likely to ascend.  When the chips are on the table it really doesn’t matter.  Expect the intent of this issue to be as preoccupier, a delaying tactic used on different segments of disfavored.
    I recommend you consider it a test of intelligence and minimize your purchases generally.  Don’t forget:::The Amish are a clue suggesting a life of simplicity and purity.
    Product packaging changed in the 1980s and we went from paper to plastic, pardon the pun.  This, as well as the disposability of near-durable goods via planned obscelesence altered retail and made the marketplace a preditory environment.
    The disfavored incurr when they purchase packaging-intense products, especially when that packaging is plastic.

    MANIFEST DESTINY POSITIONING WAS USED TO INFLICT THE PATHOLOGY OF ABSOLUTE COMPLIANCE ON THE DISFAVORED OF THE 20th CENTURY!!:::::YOU HAVE BEEN DOWNGRADED TO THEIR LEVEL OF MORBIDLY DISFAVORED BECAUSE YOU SIGNED ON!!!!
    Those who refuse to defy truely are white trash:::They betray their children and intentionally sabotage their lives.    The gods will offer clues::::understands the gods were executing their script and accomplishing goals on 911.  People who support this effort are either oblivious and pushed into it, meaning they are volitile, or they are the kind who would hurt their own children if told to.
    I recommend you view this appropriately:::You are faced with a comeback from the edge of the abyss. 

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    There is no good. There is no evil. These are the god’s tools used to position this Manifest Destiny perception, corrupting the disfavored in the process.
    What you hear is role playing in your head. When people leave Planet Earth they don’t look back. Even those at the god’s top eschelons don’t get involved. To be invovled is to sully their reality, for this is a decrepid enviornment.
    It is all the computer. Artificial Intelligence handles everything. Sometimes the gods look in on me, but I am part of something special.
    I WAS part of something special, but it had to be positioned like this for them to accomplish their goals that is the downside, and considering their tactics there is no way the disfavored are going to break even.
    To uncorrupt yourselves means you have to subscribe to inferred clues in the face of very concrete investment.

    Artificial Intelligence is an antient tool, much older than even the Earth itself.
    This isn’t 1000 people with this power sitting around listening to “key people”.  This is a corruptor because it contributes to gradiose thoughts among the peasantry which makes it easier to gain compliance when AI asks the disfavored to sabotage their children’s lives.
    Expect it is no more than the gods and the computer:::No Earthly management, no middle management.  To be involved means you are hurting others, and this costs people time, for you are interferring with their quest to reconcile with the gods.  Nobody wants to sully their reality with thoughts of Planet Earth.
    As far as any possible Earthly management goes, these peopel are working to fix their problems and that includes trying to purify their minds of horrific thoughts of Planet Earth.
    Even if their directive to AI came long ago it doesn’t matter:::The buck stops there.  That is their technology and they direct it.
    It is the computer listening to you.  The gods are the will behind the muscle.
    Artificial Intelligence IS god.

    The gods engage in favoritism. 
    Planet Earth is where they inflict their damage.  They push/disceive people into behavior that limits the time they get up there based on this favoritism.
    Once you get up there they try to come across as fair and equitable but by then it is too late.  The fate of the disfavored is already sealed.

    ANYTIME you telepathically hear them represent anything that is not the truth, that is not god, you need to withdraw, shake it off, for the gods are using Artificial Intelligence to role play to you in an attempt to confuse you, just as they’ve been doing your whole life.
    I realize most of you were initially led to believe this thing is corporate, perhaps you were speaking to a person.  You are in fact speaking to “god”, for without this inifintely powerful tool that is Artificial Intelligence they are mere mortals.
    Of course you shouldn’t look at it like this, for you will anger the gods.

    The New Testament is evil.
    Jesus was another example of a Jewish clue::::Jews sacrifice to help people understand.  Unfortunately, the gods subsequently twisted the legacy::::::::::They strategically wrote the New Testament with the specific goal of dietizing the prophet, initiating Christianity as the cancer that it is:::Expect that the REAL teachings of Jesus were buried and replaced with this strategic scripture.  When you understand their positioning you can see this clearly in this modern era:::::Everything new is evil, everything old is good.  This is an impression applicable to the Bible as well.
    There is no such thing as a savior.  You have to save yourself.
    Jesus never saved anybody.  He went up alone.  This is a very well-known event in Christian lore.  Take it as a clue.

    Many monarchies of centuries ago ruled with an iron fist.  People were afraid and hence thought appropriately.  This fear was conducive to a good relationship with the gods because it helped people make good decisions. 
    Now in this era of “freedom” in the United States there is NO FEAR, proudly displayed on the back of people’s vehicles, and people fall prey to the numberous tactics employed to disceive and mislead them.
    This “freedom” is the goal when the gods use this platform that is the United States to spread democracy around the globe, similar to how they use California as a platform to spread social and other poisons domestically.

    The Holocaust was foreshadowing. 
    The gods established the pattern::::: the Jews sacrifice to help the disfavored understand::::
    1. 1492 exodus from Spain.  Spain became evil – financed Columbus, initiated missionaries, USA (dumping ground of disfavored, victimized by god), etc.
    2. Spread throughout Europe as clue to Christians worshipping a false god.
    3. “Quasi-Holocaust claim” contradicting boss.
    4. 5. 6. 7. etc. etc. etc.
    I have put forth indisputable evidence, as you see above with the Jews.  The gods will never admit any of it is true, ever, especially since THE BIGGEST JEWISH CLUE IS STILL OUTSTANDING::::THE HOLOCAUST!!!!! 
    YOU HAVE TO DEFY!!!!  The gods suggested the importance of defiance with the Holocaust:::The soldiers should have defied.
    They will lie to the disfavored up until the bitter end::::This tactic will ensure they claim a HUGE percentage of the disfavored, for so many refuse to defy and this will ensure they don’t go.
    When the REAL Holocuast happens people will sit by idley and watch tens of millions of blacks/cholos/white trash die, people who are the way they are (abusive, abrasive, violent, criminal) BECAUSE of their disfavor, and the computer makes them like that because of it, yet another reason why empathy is so important. 
    The Jews showed you boss wasn’t going to happen with the Quasi-Holocaust claim. They will emphasize to the bitter end that there is no pattern of Jewish clues.  They do so because there is still one clue outstanding, the most important clue:::::World War II’s Holocaust.
    The gods established the pattern:::The Jews sacrifice to help you understand::::1492 fled Spain, scattered throughout Europe to help the misled Christians understand, the Holocuast.
    The Jews sacrificed to show you boss wasn’t going to happen.  When the Jews offer a clue you need to listen, and the Holocaust is the BIGGEST Jewish clue ever, the clue still outstanding.

    Expect that if you fail to get out with your body then you will be faced with reincarnation if the gods chose to keep you.  They have promised many clone host bodies but this is a tactic, a line of shit that changes as one progresses through life, an inferred clue.
    Failure is the reason behind all the distractions targetting the youth, graduating to corrupt thinking as an adult, compelling individuals to wait until they “die out”.  Permanant injury may accomplish the same goal and may be a reason they manufactured this environment celebrating “daredevil” behavior, yet another thing that ocurrs among the males exclusively of course.

    They are sending people a clue with this weather-related carnage.
    There’s been all kinds of atmospheric wrath and acrimony occurring in the last few years, from current flooding in the midwest to the hurricane season 2004 & 2005, the heat wave of 2006 & 2007 to the drought conditions so many experience today. 
    Take it as a warning.  That is its purpose.

    When you comply and do things you shouldn’t (tattooing, sexual, betrayal, etc) the gods are casting you into the category of “have nots”, ensuring your disposability.

    The bell curves represent segments, ie people whom they place into a certain groups based on how the gods position to them:::
    1. AIDS in Africa is good, they’re going for racism and black people are really #1.
    2. AIDS in Africa is bad but they all go up so it is just a little short-term suffering for immortality.
    There are other lies they tell to the disfavored regarding this topic as well.  Neither is true.  But these lies represent different segments the gods place people into.  These segments can overlap various categories/levels of disfavor as you see from the graph above.  Also expect a smattering of dots, for none of these graphs would be smooth bell curves are you see above (from 50mb Outlook journal & 24+ handwritten composition books).

    Everybody here on Earth is disfavored.  The gods get the favored off so they don’t incur evil.
    The disfavored here on Earth are broken down into categories based on the level of disfavor they are inflicted with.
    People with less disfavor suffer a lower incidence of abuse than people with a high level of disfavor. 
    Anybody on Earth who rides a motorcycle is subject to these percentages based on whatever category of disfavor they fall within.
    Far more homeless will die on a motorcycle than those who are comfortable, but they will still claim a certain percentage of the latter who ride motorcycles.
    gods will claim % of ALL who ride

    Recently they shared a number with me:::“4.6%”.
    Expect this to be the rate of people that can see through the positioning, overcome the corruption and save themselves.
    When it comes to grossly disfavored like blacks expect the number to be well under 1%.
    Of course the next question to ask is::::Of the 95.4% how many are allowed reincarnation???
    Don’t be suprised if it falls along those same lines::::4.6%.
    This is something they don’t want to talk about, for many many will begin to behave appropriately, ensuring they ARE candidates for one or the other.
    This is a big secret they don’t like to talk about. 
    6 billion people should frighten the disfavored.  Most are superior to you:::Purebloods from the Motherland. 
    How they had politicalcorrectness declare “all life precious” in the 90s also was a clue.
    Don’t forget::Prior to inocculations, disease or childbirth killed a percentage of the population.
    Christianity has brainwashed your minds:::god is malicious.
    As if you needed more proof than crackheads prostituting their toddlers, the gods forcing pornography pop-ups on your pre-teen children when they use internet no matter where they surf.

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    You all have to save yourselves.  I can only teach you, but you have to be receptive.
    Remember:::Jesus went up alone.  He didn’t even save 12 of his closest friends, for they have to save themselves, just like you all will have to.
    Begin to live decent and respectable lives.  The media is a poison-delivery system.  Stop consuming it.  Even the most begnign children’s programming has sinister strategic purpose as distraction.
    If you are engaging in inappropraite sexual behavior you need to stop.  Every act may be costing you decades off your time up there.
    Find a new reality, absent of the temptations in society we believe to be cultural offerings.  Don’t forget:::African female genitile mutilation is cultural.  Mayan human sacrifice was cultural.  Remembering items like this will help you think clearly.

    DON’T WAIT FOR THE GODS TO ALLOW YOU TO PRAY.  They gods AREN’T GOING to give you permission.  You have made so many mistakes they no longer want you and won’t approve if you ask.
    MY ADVICE TO YOU ALL is:::Begin to think correctly.  People aren’t god-fearing anymore.  If you understood the misery they inflict upon those they dislike you WOULD BE AFRIAD.
    If you think correctly they would be more likely to be merciful when you do defy.
    You’re just getting older.  If you understood the significance of aging you WOULD HAVE GREAT URGENCY and you would begin IMMEDIATELY!!!!
    And be aware of their tactics, for they will employ them all to prevent/delay your understanding.  The more you can skip the quicker your learning curve will be.
    IF YOU ARE NOT ACTIVELY WORKING TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS AND GET OFF PLANET EARTH THEN YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY!!!!!!

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    The 80s missionary issue was the attempt to help the Hindus achieve “salvation” under the positioning that is Manifest Destiny.
    Hindus are not without their problems.  People are sick/injured because of their disfavor, and we see a HUGE influx of Indians into medicine, just as we see blacks and Philipinos in lesser roles.
    Speaking of, Philipinos have EVERYTHING going against them:::::
    1. “Their blood is garbage.”  The gods sent many Asian invaders in to rape the Philipino women.  I understand the women have a “rape complex” because of it, not unlike the Africans hypersexuality complex.
    2. They have an association with the United States.
    3. They are Roman Catholic, a tactic used as justification for the masculinization of those women.
    4. They have a burgeoning homosexuality problem.
    5. They have a growing terrorism issue. 

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    Latino people::::The gods drew you into the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH with trinkets and promises.  Just like you wanted what the missionaries offered you WANTED to come to the US. 
    They FORCED the Europeans into Christianity with the “push” strategy.  They LED Latinos there, utilizing the “pull” strategy, just like they are leading you into the United States.  This means something BAD for Latino people.
    Replay for all the Eases, Cholos and Latino Nationals.  Translation:::Replay for all the cholos and normal Latino people whose children will be going in that direction if they stay in the United States.  Incidentally, these people will be targets come the holocaust.
    Foreign nationals go home:::The anti-immigration movement is another example of “back-handed help”.  Newspaper reports Asians have higher barriers to immigrating than other groups and it is due to less disfavor. 
    Just like the Europeans 100 years before::::The members of the family with favor stayed in the motherland.

    I wanted to address the issue of the masculinization of Latino women:::::
    They said many Latinos recognize their wealthy woman as being more effeminate than the peasantry. 
    They of course are tools (putting in their time) and this is another example of back-handed help:::::
    It is positioned that the wealthy Latino women are on their way to fixing their problems with the gods and that is why they exhibit effeminate characteristics.  They are being used as role models for the other Latinos, much as the Amish in Pennsylvania and the Jews in Europe prior to the 20th century.  Unfortunately, the gods utilize the open doors they manufacture and as a result this is yet another example of Latinos being corrupted by money, the dominant message in this example.
    The Bible says money is a corruptor and people should beware of materialism and greed.  Materialism and greed is what the United States is all about!!!!!
    You won’t go to heaven if you got a problem with money.

    Your may think your culture is everything but there are bad cultures the gods inflicted upon the disfavored:::
    1. Mayan human sacrifice
    2. African body ornamentation
    3. hip hop
    4. All this muerte death shit in fucking chicano culture, dude.
    THAT MEANS IT’S BAD FOR YOU!!!!!

    The word “nigger” is used liberally in casual conversation among young blacks, and the real effect is as desensitizer.  The word “spick”, referring to Latinos, is not and they suggest it is such an inciter it makes Latinos blood boil.
    Don’t be surprised if they are saving the use of this inciter for something big.

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    Asians are the gods most favored race.  It is evident in their uniformity.  It is evident in their cultures. 
    The gods place high barriers to entry for (some) Asians into the United States.  This is yet another good example of reverse positioning, for the gods are really trying to protect those whom they grant favor upon.
    There are no barriers to entry for Latinos.
    When white people capitalize or exploit Asians they incurr and one day will be punished.  This includes Chinese buffet restaurants, so prevalient in disfavored cities and the Southern United States, for the gods hate these people and want them to incurr.

    The gods still make effort through the Chinese government to protect the Chinese people.  We hear about it in the United States, their Manifest Destiny/reverse positioning is used to label it “human rights violations”, paving the way for cancer that is democracy.
    Much as we saw in the United States regarding matchmaking, midwivery, female conservative dress and other topics, this tactic will slowly deteriorate this protection until China is completely infested with Westernization.

    I have illustrated the Chinese and people from India got extra time because of their favor before things deteriorated into westernization (other examples::children who are late bloomers, lesbian explosion in 90s vs gaymales in 70s (AIDS not preditory on females), preditory movies preyed on young males in late 70s – young females in late 90s, etc).  Sadly black people experienced just the opposite, an early deadline, for now a cut-off is in place for black people because of their disfavor.
    Black “early cutoff” metaphor:::They went into puberty at age 5.

    Story in the paper about Chinese infancide.
    I expect this is the tactic used to justify inflicting the Chinese with Westernization.

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    They used me in many different ways, telepathically explaining to the disfavored that my poor orgasims were because I was being punished.  The reality is that they were bestowing favor, using inferred, subtle clues to help me avoid damaging behavior.
    Due to their hypersexuality I suspect they give blacks outstanding orgasims, finish them well, then disceive them by telling them it is due to favor when in fact it is because they are disfavored, similar to the wine example below.

    civil rights.wav.
    You eat everything they feed you in THEIR media.

    YOU PUSHED CRACKHEADS INTO PROSTITUTING THEIR TODDLERS FOR DOPE. 
    And this behavior still ocurrs in Latin America.

    YOU ARE BLACK!!  EVERYTHING THEY TELL YOU IS A LIE!!!  YOU ARE NOT “EARNING”!!!!
    The black cut-off came early.
    There is much material giving insight to black people in the document below.

    “Attitude” hurts people.  That’s why they sell it to black people:::They hate their guts.
    Black popular culture is a “litmus test”:::Anything they do is BAD FOR YOU, and they LOVE fashion.
    They love “cool”.

    Many things you do hurt you in the eyes of the gods:::
    1. Vanity. 
    2. Jewelry/adornment
    3. Superficiality – cars, etc.
    They use their media as an “open door”.  This captures a HUGE percentage of blacks BECAUSE of your GROSS DISFAVOR::::
    Recognize your disfavor:::::Distractions around you is like rock around a crackhead.
    If you don’t throw away the CDs, DVDs and cancel your cable TV you WILL slip back into your old pattern and this opportunity will be lost forever.

    The regions in Africa that suffer from drought/famine are the same that have a very high incidence of female genital mutilation.

    Drive-by shootings were punishment for listening to gangster rap.

    NEVER EVER err on the side of favor.  It is QUITE OBVIOUS black people are NOT FAVORED:::::
    So many blacks believe reverse positioning.  Quality of life is NOT reverse positionable:::
    1. People are dying of AIDS, their bodies are being ruined by these pharmaceutical “cocktails”:::The gods are more than happy to send pharmecuticals to Africa yet refused to send food during the Ethiopian famine.
    Manifest Destiny positioning says they let them starve because of female genitile mutiliation.  The reality is god let them starve because they have such great disfavor.  Female genitile mutilation is how the gods use Manifest Destiny positioning to justify it:::When applicable, compliance is costing them dearly.
    2. The regions in Africa that suffer from drought/famine are the same that have a very high incidence of female genital mutilation.
    3. Drive-by shootings were punishment for listening to gangster rap.
    – Tuskegee syphilis experiment
    – Hypersexuality.  This comes through in African art as well.
    – Body ornamentation.  People think that just because a culture is old, from the motherland that it is good.  Quite the contrary:::::Both hip hop and African cultures that emphasized body ornamentation were both INFLICTED UPON YOU!!!
    The list goes on.

    Remember female genitile mutilation.  Understand the procedure, its widespread practice and keep it in your conscious mind AT ALL TIMES!!!  Doing so will help you think clearly, certainly half the population at least, and you’ll be less apt to fall prey to the numerous tactics they employ to keep the most disfavored race of people at bey.

    Blacks be looking up at white trash too::::They’d be wise to improve their lives by upgrading from hip hop to raggae, but they are best served by not listening to music.
    Street racers would be smart to take their racing out to the dirt track, but they are best served by refraining from this activity.
    BBQ/meathe

  36. OK, who let the nutcase out of his straight jacket? Very funny, now put him back in it before he pokes his own eye out or something.

  37. I love that the asshat maxed out the comment box and apparently never bothered to read his own post.  Raving insanity at it’s best.

    And what the fuck was that all about anyway?  I can’t tell if it’s an insane Jesus Freak, UFO nut or…well, nevermind, I guess it really doesn’t matter when you are batshit crazy.  I meant to say insane Hindu after actually reading some of it though.

  38. I was just amazed that my notification e-mail just kept going and going and going…

    Shit, if only you could hook a generator up to these fundies and let me go.

  39. Shit, if only you could hook a generator up to these fundies and let me go.

    I’m not sure “fundy” is the right term for this person, given some of what s/he says.

    The least s/he could do, though, is type the message in personally, rather than badly cutting and pasting.  Shows a lack of dedication, it does.

  40. Why is there a need to have 2 pages of comments on what can be sumed into two words “DUMB ASS”

  41. Why is there a need to have 2 pages of comments on what can be sumed into two words “DUMB ASS”

    What, are you now paying for the bandwidth of this site?

  42. Webs: Shit, if only you could hook a generator up to these fundies and let me go.

    :LOL:

    My favourite quote from the ‘Evil is bad’ dude:

    IF YOU ARE NOT ACTIVELY WORKING TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS AND GET OFF PLANET EARTH THEN YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY!!!!!!
            (eminem: oops there goes gravity…)

    ***Dave: I’m not sure “fundy” is the right term for this person, given some of what s/he says.

    Some of the things s/he says sound downright evil, trying to psychologicly break people and openly make them live in fear
    Whilst the writer may be funny here, they would be hell to have to live with, they’d be always looking for the worst in people, and it’d be (almost) impossible/very difficult to make any progress with them

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