He’ll Fuck You Up!

I’m not sure how universal the concept of “Hell” really is but many Christians believe only the Christian God can make good on the threat of one. More so, that Hell only exists by His allowance. Brett Keane has a video on YouTube that illustrates just how basic the concept really is to many of the world’s religions and he surmises that if Christians want to threaten him with eternal damnation, “They’re in the same boat as I am…”.

Good point, Brett.

It might be nice to have a religion that doesn’t use fear of eternal suffering as a motivator, but it’s a powerfully effective method for gaining followers. I can understand why so many religions utilize it as a selling point.

Interesting that if you remove the apostrophe, the title of the song is “Hell Fuck You Up”. Coincidence? I think not.

35 thoughts on “He’ll Fuck You Up!

  1. That was probably the single funniest song I’ve ever heard. Somehow it reminds me of Fred Phelps’ ideology immortalized in song.

  2. The song wouldn’t download from SEB so I got it from YouTube direct.

    Ripper tune**, Brock.

    I know some Kiwi sheep-fuckers who wouldn’t be amused by making fun of Ray’s antics.

    **Back in the early 70s Paul Hogan used to advertise Winfield cigarettes. His entrance was accompanied by an orchestra; the conductor being a bloke named Boris.
    Anyway Paul would come onto the stage from whence he’d issue his advice to smokers and as he did, he’d say: Ripper tune, Boris, which meant: exciting tune, Boris, but I’m not real sure I understood it but it doesn’t matter cos it sounded good … or something like that.
    It (Ripper tune, Boris) became a bit of a catch-cry from then on although I’m the only person I know to still say it.
    Sometimes I feel like a dinosaur but never a dork.  wink

    And, I never knew Paul had a Croatian, pop star, half-brother named Oliver Dragojević.

  3. The overall message was funny; too bad the author never learnt to spell properly. “your” != “you are,” etc.

    With all the grammatical, spelling and factual mistakes, it looks like some jerk-off video that some Git made in his parent’s basement.

    Oh wait…

  4. The clip makes a good point, particularly about the ‘enlightened’ budda. If people were written off and condemned for eternity, they might learn from their punishment but would still continue to be punished and it wouldn’t count for anything because they – eternal damnation would just be a mean vindictive response, and god would deserve hell more himself for doing it.

    Not believing in something doesn’t make anyone a bad person, all it is is a theory on something we don’t know, and indeed have no method of finding out – a reasonable god would make allowances, because you yourself wouldn’t expect, for example someone to completely know their job on the first day of work.

    What does make people bad is creating unnecessary fear, as the clip said in other words, living in fear is hell. The best antidote to fear is trying to show that it’s also possible that a god could be reasonable and understanding – that certainly seems to be how he’s supposed to be viewed and I’d like to give him the credit of not being a complete hypocrite, and I’d also like to be able to think that he wasn’t egotistical enough to create people only to be worshipped, though the ‘asshat god’ is still possible, just as anyone you have no knowledge of could be an asshat.

    If I were in god’s sandals, i’d be hurt and somewhat insulted if believers assumed the egotistical angry asshat version of me – if god were an asshat, most of the people here deserve more respect than him

  5. So, who was the first psychotic asshole who thought up Hell in the first place?

    “Hmmmmm… yes.. I’ll make this religion… there will be this angry hypocritical all powerful god who lords over the Earth… I think I will call him ‘God’.  Yes… and I will write this book that I will call ‘the Bible’, and I’ll list things I hate in it, such as shell fish, which you will not be allowed to indulge in, and I will make up a bunch of violent stories. Hmmm… and I could make this place…. and I could call it ‘hell’.  And there would be flames, and torture…. and if you disbelieve this ‘Bible’ I am writing, you will be sent to hell to burn and be tortured… forever! Genious!”

  6. I’d like to share a quote that doesn’t really bring anything new into the discussion, but it’s funny nonetheless. Read that in a skater forum years ago, believe it or not. smile

    “Imagine:

    In a burst of light you create the cozmos. All the matter and energy of the universe comes into
    being in a single point at your fingertips. You watch your creation grow and expand, you weave into its glowing mass
    all the laws and constraints of eternity and in doing so set the seed of life.

    In time the roots of galaxies
    take hold, solar systems bloom and soon develop their planatary fruit. Eventually these relatively microscopic pebbles
    develop into entire worlds teaming with various life.

    Now, lets say that ONE of these near infinite planets
    has some weird, annoying monkey creatures growing on it. They tend to fight alot and occassionally kill each other off
    wholesale.

    So what do you do? You cause one of the virgin monkeys to give birth to another monkey which you
    call your son (?). Then you let the other monkeys kill him (?). Finally, you bring him back to life before warping
    him to a magical happy land where he can happily play with the other monkeys forever (?). Furthermore, if any of the
    monkeys on the planet refuse to believe in or love the monkey you called your son they go to a much different magic
    place where they are tortured for eternity (?).

    WHO COMES UP WITH THIS SHIT??!??!?”

  7. I’m pleased to see others agree that a hypothetical god would have a case to answer, if not for hell, then for the suffering in the world – if he really was all powerful and good, he wouldn’t make people with an evil aspect – they would be fully perfect. It’s possible that, like everyone else, his influence would have limits dependant on how much influence people gave him, and that evil is a sign of being able to think independantly from any other individual (ie god) and the prerogative of freedom (showing thought is not restricted, but not something that you need to be to remain individual).

    I think questioning ‘god’ is necessary for the peace of mind and sanity of anyone who hasn’t completely dismissed the possibility of his existence, which is something that hasn’t been proven either way, so in my mind he could still exist in parelel (like a parelel universe), even if he was unable to interact.

    Thinking about religion, it might be the case that in a potential afterlife there is no drastically different indivdual of ‘god’ ruling everything, just a buncha people like us with varying aspects and influence, in otherwords nothing we can’t reach, and if so that might be why individuality might come with certain unwithdrawable prerogatives like the potential for evil, because if there was no all-powerful authority and physical constraints no longer applied, nobody would ultimately have the authority to limit you, just as nobody alive can control your thinking

  8. It’s not necessarily “questioning ‘god’”. It’s more about understanding our currend picture in the universe (see quote) and adjusting religions accordingly. People do not tend to do that. They’d rather believe in their 2000 year old “books of faith” than anything else (which is rather sad).

    C’mon, atheism isn’t just a clever train people can jump on. It’s a sign of time, a sign of people being self-conscious and interested in ALL aspects of ‘believing’ rather than just one. I doubt ANY of you out there don’t believe in anything. It’s a good thing when ‘believing’ becomes a personal matter…

  9. Fitting religion around the science considered by atheism indeed seems the most logical way to explore and narrow down possibilities, and looking at stuff from as many angles as possible can only shed more light on our understanding of the universe

    Technically though atheism is the belief that dieties don’t exist, so someone can only really call themselves atheist if they rule out that possibility.

    I personally don’t know enough to be able to rule out either option of god existing or not, and I don’t see a way of finding out, this technically makes me agnostic.

    As far as I can see you need reason or personal experience to believe something exists or to rule it out, so I struggle to see how anyone could be anything other than agnostic if they were going on evidence or a complete + accurate philosophy. If someone was 100% atheist, they souldn’t have much reason to have ethics or any psychological barriers, if there is no personal gain from caring, to care about the world or avoid suicide when you don’t have faith requires a breakdown in the self-serving aspect of logic, and yet virtually everybody, including myself, seems to have illogical psychological barriers without any obvious reasoning to keep them going (there may have been a reason that faded into the past, like why people do something only because it’s ‘tradition’)

  10. DC: they shouldn’t have much reason to have ethics

    Aww, mate, you’re not really throwing that old furphy into the ring, are you?
    There are many people who could explain it better than I but in a nutshell, the way I understand it: it’s easier to get on in society if I follow basic principles.
    That’s it.  smile
    Richard Dawkins’, The God Delusion, mentions this quite a bit and even has a chapter (Chapter 6: The roots of morality – why are we good?) referring to, and answering, this question … cos it’s not a new one, by any means. 

    Most ‘rules’ have at their centre: Save the herd.
    However, I will agree with you that many things, ways of thinking and or doing, are tradition and often stupid and therefore have little to do with ‘saving the herd’ and more to do with saving the meme, face or money.

  11. I haven’t read it, thanks for the refrence smile
    It’s just that these seem to trace back to instinct; if you were to override instinct with the logic needed to get what you want (which to some extent society requires people to do anyway), you might be able to walk straight through the psychological barriers, and lose inhibitions – if someone is determined or pressured they can do things they have inhibitions to, like eating a dodgy looking piece of food.

  12. you might be able to walk straight through the psychological barriers

    A lot of it has to do with confidence/self-belief.
    If you can ‘forget’ yourself, your self-imposed limitations, you could almost reach your potential.
    I get the impression you already do a bit of this when you jump around and larf to ‘alter your [state of] consciousness’.

    Mark Twain: Dance like nobody’s watching; love like you’ve never been hurt. Sing like nobody’s listening; live like it’s heaven on earth.

    If you followed this little ditty you’d save yourself …  wink

  13. Mind tricks on self indeed go a long way to make life easier. Too much gives a headache but sleep cures that and is soooo nice, its a shame we have to go to work, I don’t like having to work, and resent being born into a society that expects it, if worst comes to the worst there is always the option of foraging for berries in the forest, i’d like to try that one day, but get a flat + some financial security first – i’m saving up to retire as soon as possible but that might take 50 odd years, unfortunately the dole option wouldn’t pay rent and you have to be a jobseeker – self confessed lazy-assed bastard doesn’t work

  14. I was intrigued by the Mark Twain quote LJ used in his last comment in part because it doesn’t sound like anything Mark Twain would’ve said. So I did some checking and I can’t find a properly authenticated example of it anywhere so I suspect it’s not something he ever wrote.

    In fact it’s also often attributed to Satchel Paige or listed as an old Irish folk saying. I’d have to do more research to be sure, but I’m going to say it’s probably not an actual Mark Twain quote.

  15. Les, I too was surprised it was attributed to Mark Twain as I too thought the last part was a bit suss but being an apathetic lazy bastard I was happy with the one reference. When I first heard it about 15 years ago it didn’t include the last line.
    I reckon some xian bastard added it to usurp the fact that Mark was an avid atheist much like many other atheists the xians have tried to claim as their own e.g. all your founding fathers, Einstein, and I’m too lazy to think of any more.

    DC: resent being born into a society that expects it

    I know this was almost a throw away comment but you’ve alluded to this type of simple lifestyle before so …
    Every society has always (notice I used two absolutes?) expected one to sing for one’s supper and let’s face it …

    foraging for berries in the forest

    would be worse than work.
    You’d spend half your time hunting the right type of berry, half your time having a gut-ache and half your ti …
    You’d spend a third your time hunting the right berry, a third your time having a gut-ache and a third your time shitting an unfamiliar diet … [enter – the Spanish Inquisition]

    Whilst ever you have the mind-set that it’ll take 50 years you can be assured it will be so.
    Self-fulfilling prophesy and all that sorta stuff.
    Just for kicks have gander at this little 7 minute YouTube.
    Don’t listen to the hyperbole of the yank accents – just listen to the possibilities.
    I know this stuff works because I’ve been making it work for me since I left home in Tassie over 40 years.
    Have I got any money now? No – but I have a pension that gives me enough to live more comfortably than many people with jobs … and I have 100% free top-of-the-line health cover.

    Only once have I ever been on the bones of my arse. I didn’t enjoy it but I know there were plenty of people who’d have willingly swapped with me.
    I always had jobs where I raked in money by doing not much – mum always said: Schatje, if you’re going to be lazy, do it properly. Work smart not hard.

    Visualisation works.
    You are today the result of what you thought and did yesterday … or 5, 10, whatever years ago.
    I wanted stuff – I got lots and lots and lotsa stuff.
    Stuff didn’t make me happy. I lost stuff.
    I found myself again (very important, that) and became happy without stuff.
    Now I have just enough stuff but I don’t rely on it to make me happy cos it won’t.
    (I was talking to myself with Eddie Izzard‘s voice then.)
    Weird – even that bit … weird … stop it.  LOL

  16. LJ- that video kind of reminds me of a Wiccan friend I used to have, she’d go out at 2 or three in the morning and do rituals, tossing stones in a river or something similar (she didn’t like to talk about it in too much detail), each ritual to produce a specific result.  I’d think, there’s no way tossing stones in a river will have any positive or negative impact, but at least she knows what she wants, which puts her a fair sight ahead of most people.

  17. Thrice, it’s about focusing on something – anything will work. Stones at 3am into a river is no sillier than praying to, talking to, focusing on, a statue or picture ‘of’ Jesus, Mary, Zeus, the flame of a candle or an invisible powerful being in the mind or ‘just’ the ‘higher self’  – it’s all the same thing – it’s about the focus.
    The scam the scammers play, for Buku dollars, is that their scam is the truth – no man shall see (or is it go or sit or some such stupid nonsense) but thru me, or the sun or the son. Sheesh.
    And ignorant fuckers keep getting sucked in because if they don’t play they ‘know’ they’ll go to hell.
    Fear tactics work well. Any religion built on guilt and or fear is a negative and therefore can’t be good for ‘you’ (= body, mind, spirit – spirit can be the soul that may or may not exist but at least it’s the ‘get up and go for it’ stuff); that rules out the Abrahamic memes

    Anyway, I’ve read and heard from many sources over the years (all were maybe referring to the same urban myth?) that if you write down your goals you are much more likely to achieve them.
    I’ve done it a few times but not often enough – I’m a gambler. I love playing the odds.
    Some would suggest it’s a form of passive suicide and I like losing; that too could be true. wink
    The crazy me thought that constantly employing such tactics to attain goals was cheating.
    Yes, I know it’s insane … who ever suggested I was sane? wink
    BUT, it’s like preparing the yearly budget to aim for in a business … costing in every outgoing expense and guesstimating, experientially, the sales and, coming up with a residual; preferably a black [interesting – I got away with racism] one, a profit – otherwise it was a wasted year – unless you got some experience which always arrives at a cost, in the short term.
    Shouldn’t your personal life be just as important?
    Those who fail to plan, plan to fail.
    Hey, I’m 60, retired and past it; been there and done most of the things I wanted to do and I don’t give a fuck anymore.
    It’s all downhill and bonuses from here. wink
    Back in the early 90s I was ready to buy another house. I wrote a long list of things I wanted. Except for the en-suite I got everything I asked for as well as benefits and stuff I hadn’t even thought of.
    Oh, it was just a coincidence.
    Yes dear. Whatever you reckon.
    When I drive up town in my car with my cynical, feet-on-the-ground, you’re-a-weird-bastard-John mate I even have him trained to say: There it is. I near enough to always get the parking place I want, where I want.
    By near enough to always I mean more than 9 times outa 10. No, that’s not 10 outa 10 it’s ALMOST 10 outa 10.
    I have found though that if the trip to the destination isn’t given at least 5 minutes to germinate (in the mind of god wink  ) I don’t get the parking place and I have to go round the block again … giving it (?) the 5 minutes needed to complete arrangements.
    And, NO, I don’t believe in god and I sure as hell don’t pray to one for stuff … I wouldn’t lower myself.
    At best, jokingly, if my mate’s in the car, I might say: Thankyou god in whom I don’t believe … for some mishap we cleverly, or luckily, avoided
    Now, if I was a god and some shit-for-brains bastard kept saying that sorta shit to me I’d make his life hell.
    IT isn’t, therefore HE isn’t. QEfuckingD.

    It’s after 6pm. I’ve been listening to thunder, watching Eddie Izzard or listening to Santana most of the day and now the wine is being drunk a little faster.
    It’s been drizzle, thunder, rain, lightening and chuck in some hail, for most of the day – not that I mind. I just hope some poor bastard’s damn and or rain water tank’s being filled, but it doesn’t engage the idea of going for a walk at all and getting some much needed exercise.
    This no smoking caper is easy enough (I’m over the hump of my 8th week) but I gotta start to stop [?] putting stuff in my mouth. I have about 2.5 kilos to go till I hit the 100 kilos and when that happens there’s a goal in place to lose 25 kilos by xmas.
    So why don’t I stop (start?) now?
    Cos that’s not the plan and, I’m too apathetic to deviate from the plan.  smile

  18. All beit all said , if you take the words (alone) of Jesus, you will find them being said in all religions… now for fun, if you take his actions (alone) and compare those, what you will not find is comparisons among the other gods or prophets, similarities maybe… point being is Jesus’s words and actions are and at the present time were of integreity and love.  God is love. i tend not to get stuck on the hell idea so much, because that seems so far from love, but the one insight i can say about (the idea of hell) is it could be compared to a parent scolding a child, (to find anything out we must ask why), so why does the parent do it? LOVE. So we have this thing love, that is entangled with the English word: accountability, the reason for the idea (of hell) of being in existance… now granted that there have not been many more spiritual beings with the the integrity and love for mankind than Jesus who have walked the earth, mocking Jesus would be quite vain, mocking humans (of imperfect integrity) who have their own fun ‘twists’ on things like hell (and take them to extremes – say oposing fear on some one with intentions of them believing so they would send them money or help there church)however would not. there is love isn’t there? where does that come from? a glitch in physics or God. there are only two possibilites … both perceived by humans as a choice on reality, the former, vain and everything perceived is on the foundation of chance… the latter, infinite possibilites… i say don’t let our human egos get in the way of potentials that may make us shine white with joy, because that what this really is about, ego. love has no ego.

    loop this idea(these ideas) through and forever be amazed in curiosity – if you are curious about God

  19. i spose you could then go quantam on me and say it could be both chance and God, but then I say the choice is ours, how wonderful!

  20. tend not to get stuck on the hell idea so much, because that seems so far from love, but the one insight i can say about (the idea of hell) is it could be compared to a parent scolding a child,

    I disagree. An eternal punishment for a finite wrongdoing does not compare to a “scolding”. Consider focusing more on Hell – it’s not unimportant, and flatly contradicts the notion that God is love. Loving gods know when to stop. Sadistic, evil ones don’t.

  21. before reading my reply please acknowledge:

    i am a supporter of freedom of all things ( unless it is harmful to people )including press, religion etc.  I think similarlily along the lines of :

    “We don’t know a millionth of one percent about anything.” – Thomas Edison

    “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” – Goethe

    “The more I know, the more I realize I don’t know.” – Albert Einstein

    “The fool thinks he is wise . . . The wise man knows himself to be a fool.” – William Shakespeare

    “I know only that I do not know.” – Socrates

    In my own words, i do not wish to make any claims, only provoke the great questions , the w’s , because that’s what i feel philosophy is: no one is right no one is wrong, it is all ideas and ideas of ideas… and then my common sense kicks in about the great W’s, and coming at me from another angle .. feelings like love…. i have great wonder of possibilities, and stumbling upon the topic of Jesus and considering the following below, a choice does have to be made anyway, I will probably read replies but do not wish to say anything further, my only intention was to provoke questions, i think they are good, they lead us places that we did not know about before… so thanks for your ideas here are a few more…

    you are right about hell being an important idea. here is an idea to consider, for God to work, there must be order, a set of laws , like governments , you do break this law you go to jail for this amount of time.  now back to my first segment, Jesus speaking as God of Man warned us about punished to hell for the time sentence of eternity, (after this there must be eternity or nothing [or we are lacking the idea of two lifes or a number less than infinity then nothing, i ask that you spare me on that idea atleast for now

    ) I find like most things that go wrong are man-made.. we can easily be selfish and believe in our reality so much that we neglect other potentials , personally i call that ego.. the point here is i think religions of all sorts have gone astray -by man…forwhatever reasons… worldy fame, money, power, or even some on simply good intentions but ones that are still centered on an earthly or worldy platform (instead of the idea of eternity)…

    so i appreciate your sincerety Patness, now here is my reply specifically … the order (a government) or in this matter of concern, God of Man (Jesus) brought forth the law… for point being made I ask to accept this for the moment…  Okay, given that, we have “truth” a set of laws to follow, the punishment of Hell is fine, yes I agree it is not comparable to scolding a child, now, relating to my point, if we say Jesus is Son of Man, he gives us a set of rules… here is the kicker , his laws also speak of forgiveness… side note quickly—i am familiar Karma, the idea of forgiveness is better than Karma, which is really the same as the idea of cause and effect… however Jesus (God) is better than cause and effect through Jesus by allowing forgivess from cause and effect… sure we go our own paths, cause our own destruction and hopefully learn from it and change, but that won’t put us to hell if we have God who will forgive us… to sum my statements up I am comparing:

    Government
    -has set laws/consequences
    -if you break those laws consequences are enforced related to the crime
    -no eternal punishment

    God/Jesus Son of Man
    -has set laws/consequences
    -if you break those laws consequences are relative like “karma”, biblicaly :‘you reap what you sow’
    -eternal damnation is only punished by not accepting God Son of Man (Jesus) and sincerely seeking forgivenss. (So the law of forgiveness that God instills can override the punishment of Hell if it is accepted)

    So, this is the insight i see, and the reason why i compared scolding a child like the love of God… i like the word accountability just like there is accountability for our actions as a citizen of a government there is accountability for our actions with God, and I feel that if we are told what the laws are, love is holding us accountabilty. maybe it is hard to see because it may affect us personally, lets use the idea of accountability from Government quick (noting that this Governmnet is perfect , so has perfect intentions of love bc we are comparing it to God which is such): take for example a guy in Americans perspective worse then a notorius middle-eastern man deemed a ‘terrorist’.. let’s say we managed to find him and arrest him and puth im in jail.  There is love for all people by the government bec the government punished and put away a dangerous man, so the government loved the people and put away the man to protect the ‘good’ people or realistically the not as bad people.  God is similar but better, God grants the greatest reward, so sees no other fit than to grant the worst punishment it makes sense to me in this light… it is balanced… God loves us but accountabilty has to be there otherwise God would have no laws; God has laws, so accountability has to be made, God has given man the Son of Man, a proposal of eternal life, even better the opportunity to screw up and maybe face punishment here on earth and turmoil and all sorts of learning lessons, so then offers us forgivess if we accept Son of Man, Jesus, then he puts the most difficult thing on our shoulders , Choice.  But that is also on our shoulders as a citizen of government the differences are the rewards and punishments… all rewards should have equally opposite punishments -doesn’t this make sense??? , may we agree on this statement if not anything else? well so point being of all of this is God’s way is ordered, straightforward , offers us an infinitley great reward and has an equally opposite punishment, and we have free-will, we must make the choice… God’s way or our own way… I would love to be confident in my own way… but I lack the memories of ever owning galaxies and creating laws, ones for man … others for nature…

  22. Shortly speaking, dude, it is clear you and I disagree on what love means; what love implies, and what implies love. In addition, we disagree upon law – distinctly, laws which cause harm to others in their violation versus laws which cannot be violated. I do not agree, for instance, that love implies law or accountability. I do not agree that all rewards should have equally opposite punishments – in fact, I think punishment should be reserved for the commission of an act which harms others, especially intentionally, and that punishment be proportional to the harm caused.

    But ultimately, you make a lot of assumptions that you do not show are inconsequential. You and I are, in many sense, talking about entirely different worlds. God’s way as you describe it may be ordered and straightforward; I remain firm that a sane, loving and omnipotent being would be just and measured in his judgement. Eternal reward for being friends with his son and eternal damnation for everyone else? Sorry, count me out of thinking well of him. Such responses are extremist at best, and are neither measured nor just.

    One last thing: I lack the memories of being born – that does not make me unworthy of living. You are, if you work at it, capable of just and measured responses. Reason is the toolset.

  23. Dude! Welcome to the discussion, hope you know what you’ve let u’rself in 4

    God is love.

    If he does exist maybe, but I wonder why he should have any alignment – normally when you create a particle for example, you have to make an anti version of the same thing with exact inverted symetry capable of mutual elimination if they met – if a loving god exists, you would expect an equally anti-loving god to also exists, to retain the symetry of existence – although I must say, asymetries did have to occur in order for stars and stuff to clump together after the big bang; an equally distributed sphere would have no overall direction of gravity to clump it together, fortunately the uncertainty principle might allow some randomness in the outer electron positions of atoms, allowing a partial randomness to shape prior to colision – meaning some randomness in subsequent movement and an overall asymetry of distribition. If the uncertainty principle is genuinely random, then if an anti version of the big bang happened before the big bang (time running backwards) there would not be inverted symetry – you couldn’t predict one from the other if the randomness wasn’t exactly inverted

    I also have to ask if being loved is necessarily a good thing, it’s just a state – it’s only that people’s interpretations generally take the direction of liking it – you could invert the feeling of love and all it’s associations to balance the symetry and still result in the evolution-predicicted behaviour, like what you see as blue my brain might make red but because everyone’s always called it blue that’s what I label it, because I have no idea of what other people sense.

    You have to also consider that love is also very restrictive and bonding when there isn’t full understanding

    i tend not to get stuck on the hell idea so much, because that seems so far from love,

    It’s got to be considered though, it’s possible as far as I’m concerned and we can only guess at the rules concerning what it’s like, what sends you there.

    but the one insight i can say about (the idea of hell) is it could be compared to a parent scolding a child, (to find anything out we must ask why), so why does the parent do it? LOVE.

    Tough love I guess- but it only counts as tough love if the person actually gets out of hell at some point

    mocking humans (of imperfect integrity)

    Imperfection in some ways is what makes a personality unique, it’s what destinguishes a human from machine – a machine can only follow exact orders, humans can interpret fuzzy information

    a glitch in physics or God.

    Possibly might need an anti-glich in order to create the glitch, possibly it might be projected back in the time before the big bang in an anti-version of this universe, but in a blind (not-manipulated by god or other) system, we can’t reverse time so the anti-glitch and glitch would not be able to form because perfect inversions wouldn’t be possible – hence why blind systems stricly obey physics

    … the latter, infinite possibilites…

    You may be interested in the idea of a multiverse using an infinite number of imaginary dimensions, where every possibility that has a positive probability to occur, will occur because there is an infinite number of oppertunities, and you don’t need something to imagine these dimensions, something can exist without any knowledge of it doing so – providing it is non-concious

    “I know only that I do not know.” – Socrates

    You only know that the level of reality you live in really exists when it has an infinite quantity of data, and therefore is uncontainable within a higher level of reality. As far as I know, the quantity of stuff in the unvierse is finite, and quantum rules seem to prevent the number of possibilities of position and energy levels stretching to infinity as classical mechanics does

    I find like most things that go wrong are man-made..

    Because we live under physical constraints to movement, survival and communication

    all rewards should have equally opposite punishments -doesn’t this make sense???

    To me, the symetry freak, yes!!! But only if there is an oppertunity for things to be balanced – events in life aren’t symetrical, people don’t lead exactly neutral lives so if symetry also applied to this, there would need to be another thing to balance it – and a perfectly inverted anti-universe couldn’t accomodate it because actions would change and the symetry lost

    God has laws

    I have to wonder why that should be so, why we exist, and why they should be what they are if god did have no reason for alignment. If god is no different than any other spirit, he has no special authority, just extra influence because people give him it, but it ultimately remains a person’s prerogative to do whatever they want if there are no rules. If god were all powerful and good, evil would not be allowed to exist, people would be created perfect if they were created, and there would be no need to learn how to deal with others – it would be innately completely known

    we have free-will

    Only if the uncertainty principle can be manipulated to control the position of brain chemicals (via colision path as described earlier)- otherwise the brain signals generated through your whole life could be predicted if the position, speed, energy and angle of everything was known. If the uncertainty principle has true randomness, then our thoughts are not controlled even by ourselves

    I would love to be confident in my own way

    I’m not convinced confidence is a good thing, I won’t go into why, but people praise it so much and the most confident people always seem asshats, so I don’t associate my personality with them

    but I lack the memories

    Forgetting is one of the kindest ways to break links to things. If the god thing was for real, I would hope there was a reason for us not knowing – that it may alter our choices or actions

    Patness: Shortly speaking, dude, it is clear you and I disagree on what love means

    I would like to make a distinction for clarity:

    -Care (for children, friends, etc, what I think is fundamentally more important, and can be applied to everyone you know)
    -Romance (forms exesively strong, restrictive bonds, comes with different rewards, and it’s application is usually limited to a single digit number of people at a time)

  24. Dude: God is love.

    If he exists and I don’t even entertain the possibility for a second, but … god is everything that has ever been and ever will be; to restrict him by saying ‘god is love’ is like saying ‘I am my dick’ – it’s hard … for me to stay away from smut.

    Patness: God is love? Consider hell. Loving gods know when to stop. Sadistic, evil ones don’t.

    Succinctly logicked. smile
    Robert Ingersoll: Take the Devil from the scheme of salvation—from the atonement—from the dogma of eternal pain—and the foundation is gone [as has xianity – some xians need that bit spelt out cos they’re not weal bwight].

    I find like most things that go wrong are man-made..

    In that case, which one of you xians has been organising Katrinas, Tsunamis and Volcanoes?
    Man! And there I was thinking I was a space-cadet.

    i think religions of all sorts have gone astray -by man

    All religions have always been man-made.
    Seneca: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

    the idea of forgiveness is better than Karma

    No. 
    Hit myself in the head with a hammer and I get a head ache. Do I forgive myself?
    No. I hit myself again for being such a fuckwit for not believing in the law of cause and effect.
    I think my Karma just ran over your dogma. (Anon)
    Jeez I crack me up.  LOL

    So, this is the insight i see

    Insight? It’s not even a mildly realistic observation.
    It’s filled with the variety of occult mumbo jumbo you were born into.
    John Gorgy: A Christian is a person who, if born in Saudi Arabia, would be a Muslim.

    I would love to be confident in my own way

    It’s just a choice, mate.
    Greater, wiser, smarter men than you, or me, made the right choice using intellect and reason instead of believing in invisible beings that may swoop down and take all your stuff.

    Epicurus: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

    DC: If god were all powerful and good, evil would not be allowed to exist, people would be created perfect if they were created, and there would be no need to learn how to deal with others – it would be innately completely known

    Perfect … and boring (the concept – not you).
    How would we ever know if we were happy if we never had the other to compare it too?
    Or would this be a world of no opposites?
    It’d be like riding a one-legged bike. (I don’t think that metaphor [or was that a simile?] made a scrap of sense but it sounded amusing when I thought of it and after I wrote it down my ego sprung upon it and said: it’s mine – leave it. So I have.)  wink

  25. LJ: How would we ever know if we were happy if we never had the other to compare it too?
    Or would this be a world of no opposites?

    Interesting point, that people need to be able to make comparisons to identify something exists, I suppose it goes for science too – a law in physics is only recognised if it results in not everything behaving the same way – but it’s perfectly acceptable mathematically to multiply a number by 1 for example and leave it unchanged, in fact with group theory (used in symetry), all tables are required by definition to have the operator E, which leaves everything unchanged, so everything has an E operator as a component in it’s symetry.

    (warning – i might get confused part way in)
    To give you an idea, other operators are rotations, improper rotations (rotation then reflection) and reflections, and inversions, the molecule or object you’re characterising the symetry for is assigned vectors in certain directions and, if the vector is unchanged by an operation you record 1 in the table, if it inverts record -1, if it does neither record 0 i think (which means that object does not have that operator as a component of it’s symetry)

    ———back to reality:
    Anyway it raises the issue that possible heaven could not be appreciated to infinity – if it was perfect and nobody knew any different it would just be the norm and nothing particularly special.

    If possible ‘god’ is good – the bad things might be to make us appreciate the good times
    And vice-versa for malicious god.

    Whether a sadistic god would know when to stop – he might not if he didn’t know what effect he was having which we see in people in life who, though asshats, are not primarily doing it out of malice but their intentions benefit someone, even if it is themselves, but it may be the case that he is fully aware but simply enjoys seeing suffering and has no intention of teaching them anything, in this scenario he would have no reason to stop, more reason to continue indeed

  26. Sadie: You’re welcome.
    I like to re-cycle other people’s good stuff – it makes me look smater [sic] and my stuff look better.

    Patness: You’re welcome; I collect quotes. I found that one only a few days ago.

    I really like this little cutey I found recently.
    Richard Dawkins: A universe with a God would be very different to one without.
    A xian could be sucked in to asking: how do you know?
    I can imagine Richard giving one of those arrogant little enigmatic smiles accompanied by the ever so slightly raised right eye-brow. wink

  27. (This may post twice – it didn’t seem to take the first time.)

    Hell supposedly is the result a person chooses to experience through renouncing God. One is deemed to have free will to accept or deny God but free will assumes one triggers the position by deciding to be born to begin with.

    The Bible says that God forms every life…

    13)  For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.

    14)  I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.

    Psalm 139


    …yet this would mean that God punishes someone who never asked to be born in the first place. It’s hardly fair to force someone to exist then punish them for all eternity for existing incorrectly.

    This injustice could be rectified if incarnation/reincarnation were true. If one chooses to be born into God’s world one could be expected to either play by His rules or pay the price.

    So little time; so many Biblical complications. It’s no wonder there are so many divergent dogmas simply in Christianity alone.

  28. Hello, first thanks for the welcome distant claws, I appreciate your replys…

    “i think religions of all sorts have gone astray -by man

    All religions have always been man-made.
    Seneca: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. ” – LuckyJohn19

    Come on! I don’t want to waste my time reading the obvious, here’s one for you however: to me, the sky appears to be blue … and on that context John, I deal only with possibilities so if you desire a response from me we need to be on the same playing level and to do that we need to reguard all things simply as ideas, instead of you know this – so this is reality…

    this is what i say to some one who tells me that (their) reality is reality…

    ‘hey God, so tell me the stuff I really want to know…’ 

    i don’t have time or desire to respond to ideas claimed to be true, unless you can tell me all about the great questions ( I have never claimed anthing I said to be true!!! Just posibility and thought it very important food for thought), so please lets talk as things as simply as ideas and not reality…(or not talk)

    and again , i am not here to argue, that is a waste of time, and it is to no benefit from me to try and change anyones thoughts, that is also a waste of time, rather my intentions were to share ideas (possibilities) – it is your responability from then on out…[continue course A, or venture on course B (being open to new ideas or possibilities)]

    and i will probably reply to a bit … in a bit

    also i feel like i have to clear this up..I dont think of the idea of God as a man or any thing close… My perspective on the idea of God is realy incomprehendable… and so I think some focus got lost when I say God is Love… so let me still agree with that but be more specific… he is Love, he is a,b,c,d,e,f,g… infinity… God to me is essentially incomprehendable to man, and yet here we are trying to figure it out, much like Quantum mechanics and the second we try and observe we find the collapse of the wave function and every thing seems static.

    i am trying to consciously state that i am making observations and not saying this is true , bc like stated above then I would be all-knowing-god, i am not…so in a sense you may disagree, but i am leaving myself in a position where i am neither right or wrong might i point out

  29. To Brock:

    okay this has gotten too out of relevance for me

    I hope I didn’t use the Bible as a reference, I thought I was specific on Jesus and his words and actions alone (which are only documented in the new testament), nothing else in the Bible, if I did use the old testament I apologize, I have nothing to say about that , and I also am non-religious by the way, I believe they are corrupt to be quite general but I have reason for this that i would probably wasting my time explaining my viewpoint bc it is relevant to laws and such (scientific/cause and effect/karma-like

    ) … i want to point out two things, there is a difference between christianity and accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and savior (God), that is a personal , spiritual venture, that has nothing to do with the religion… religions again are seperate because man seperates them in to his own worldy fitting-fashion… I despise religion! It’s man-made crap (to me).  Religion should be viewd as seperate bc we are dealing with man and ‘God’ … man is forever seperated from God, unless, he is God or both, and then that man who is God or both , is the only way to God outside of man. this is just hypothetical but very true, take this literally, what else could work hypothetically if God exists? (man is either God or not, or both
    )
    and Jesus was the case that I brought up were we have in instance in linear time history where a man was said to be who walked the earth is and was both… Christianty , ehhk.. not relevant to me… hypocrites i say many of them… the real spiritual matter concerned would be between Jesus and man not man’s idea of how a religion should be based on how they see fit at times in linear time

    ok it was fun but no more wasting anyones time here, i tried to leave myself in a context as neither right nor wrong (in attempt to prevent having to reply)just wanted to add some thought of possibility at a time yesturday, good luck and good night! Lol

  30. Dude: so if you desire a response from me we need to be on the same playing level

    Being an apathetic lazy Australian I need to do fuck all because I only obey the laws that serve me … this does not include laws like gravity over which I have no control, right now.

    and I also am non-religious by the way

    By that I presume you don’t belong to any particular Christ house (of cards).

    there is a difference between christianity and accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and savior

    Actually, no; there isn’t. You’re attempting a deft hand of semantics but I’ve seen those tricks on the tellyvision.

    religions again are seperate because man seperates them in to his own worldy fitting-fashion

    Now if you’d said: Religion is blah blah you may have invited me to think you were on a new(ish) track but you’re really talkin’ xianity, eh?
    The possibility of Islam and Hindu religions don’t enter your equation, do they?

    I despise religion! It’s man-made crap

    But you don’t seem to realise that the whole of religion, from concepts to practice, from god to the worshipper or fearer is all emanating from one belief; the belief in an invisible (Omnimax) entity in whose essence you believe … or not.
    And, (quoting Richard Dawkins who quoted Bert Russell) I believe in one less god than you.

    i tried to leave myself in a context as neither right nor wrong

    Sorry, dude.
    There comes a time in every man’s life where he must drop on either side of the fence or else you’ll damage your jacobs.
    Whilst ever you believe in the god delusion you believe the best is yet to come and it just isn’t so. smile

  31. i tried to leave myself in a context as neither right nor wrong

    Sorry, dude.

    Yeah, dude. Statements of facts are decisive – even down to what ideas are worthy of consideration or even consistent. You can’t be neutral on a subject except when you say nothing. Then your inaction may betray you. At best, you can only grease your crowd so that you offend the least among them.

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