Conservative Christian Ted Haggard admits doing drugs with gay hooker.

I’ve gotten about a dozen emails from folks asking me why I haven’t written about the Ted Haggard scandal as it’s just the sort of religious hypocrisy I tend to enjoy seeing unmasked. Part of the delay was due to my being busier than expected lately, but I was also waiting to see how the story developed over the following days since it first broke. I fully expected Haggard to come out swinging with denials of all the accusations, but it turns out he’s pretty much owned up to them and, after being fired from his job as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, he’s even written an apology letter:

“I am so sorry for the circumstances that have caused shame and embarrassment for all of you,” he said, adding that he had confused the situation by giving inconsistent remarks to reporters denying the scandal.

“The fact is I am guilty of sexual immorality. And I take responsibility for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar. There’s a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life,” he said.

Haggard resigned last week as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, where he held sway in Washington and condemned homosexuality, after a man claimed to have had drug-fueled homosexual trysts with him. Haggard also placed himself on administrative leave from the New Life Church, which has 14,000 members, but its independent Overseer Board fired him on Saturday.

In his letter, Haggard said “the accusations made against me are not all true but enough of them are that I was appropriately removed from his church leadership position.”

Haggard doesn’t go on to explain which allegations are true and which aren’t, but that’ll come with time I’m sure. There used to be a certain irony in discovering that a strongly anti-gay politician or religious leader—like Foley or Haggard—was engaging in the very activities he was publicly demonizing, but it’s starting to become so common that the irony is starting to fade. Haggard still manages to shock us in a new way, however, as Dan Savage points out that during a recent interview with a news team about his scandal Haggard answered questions from reporters in front of his kids. Talk about family values!

Last week was not a good one for several Christian fundies. I am deeply moved by their plight to near uncontrollable fits of giggles.

71 thoughts on “Conservative Christian Ted Haggard admits doing drugs with gay hooker.

  1. I think the server had a hiccup.  And don’t worry Don, if people were allowed to stay based on looks, I would have been sent packing a long time ago. wink

  2. Don: Am I banned?

    Cool, I’m not the only who gets paranoid when I can’t get in. LOL

    As for Ted Haggard … nice to see him exposed. smile

  3. why is it always the christians getting caught doing these things? you never hear, atheist caught with a hooker, or anything like that. but then an atheist does not run around telling people they can not be gay, then take a guy home and screw him. what a hypocritical pig.

  4. I bet you were disappointed when the guy owned up to his hypocrisies. Don’t worry, Les, the next guy will be a typical politician/lobbiest/etc, who will continue a lie even after he is overwhelmingly outed as a fraud.

    And what could anyone have against Jesus? I mean, whatever you believe, he was an advocate for peace and loving your neighbor. Despite the lies spread by TBN, et al (am I using that right?), Jesus was not a Republican. And he never condemned, nor even mentioned, gay sex. And I think he smoked weed. I bet if any us could get to know him, we would see that he was/is a pretty cool guy.

    SEB has frequent hiccups. That has always been the case, at least as long as I’ve been here. Nothing to get all paranoid about and feeling like you’ve been banned. Also, less than 1% of web sites ban by IP. It’s just too hard to maintain, and unreliable.

    You never hear about atheists having sex with hookers because it isn’t news. Although, I suppose the same could be said of people who are so ashamed of their own feelings that they overcompensate by publicly bashing their own kind (pun not intended.)

    -Bob

  5. I kinda figured that I should see sympathy not laughter from the gang over here.  The party line over here has been:

    1) Nothing wrong with gay sex

    2) Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world and it should be legalized

    3) Drugs should be legalized.  Doing them is a form of civil disobedience.

    4) Gays shouldn’t out gays

    5) Society oppresses homosexuality thereby causing increased mental health problems within the gay community so we should expect to see some forms of self-hate within a portion of the gay community

    6) Given 5, we should expect that a portion of those experiencing self-hate would put themselves in the closet and even masquerade as heterosexuals

    Given the above, it would seem to me that if you believed those things or a majority of them the natural human reaction would be one of pity and sympathy not sneering.  It would be uncaring folks with cold attitudes and elevated expectations of behavior that would sneer at him. Or so one would think.

  6. Given the above, it would seem to me that if you believed those things or a majority of them the natural human reaction would be one of pity and sympathy not sneering.

    The issue is not about his being gay, or doing drugs, or paying a hustler; it is about his heinous hypocrisy and hatemongering.  He was the leader of an organization that condemned homosexuality and was deliberately going out of his way in a hateful attempt to hurt the gay community.  Self hate or masquerading as a heterosexual does not give one a pass to demonize other homosexuals.

  7. IDM in the Open Thread on Homosexuality states: In the US, it can be suicidal to admit or even to appear to be gay, just ask Matthew Shepherd, Adam Bishop, Kenneth Muldrow, Johannes le Grange, Chris Raynsford, Chris Raynsford, Jeffery Owens, Fred Martinez, and MANY, MANY more Americans who have been killed (generally as a result of a savage beating) because they were gay.

    Even more men have been beaten and seriously injured simply because they didn’t lie about being gay.

    ******

    THIS IS WHY MANY GAY GUYS FEEL THAT THEY HAVE TO LIE ABOUT THEIR BEING GAY

    Although I disagree with most of the above, if one accepts it as true there would be certain behavioral expectations that follow.  Hypocrisy/lying should be expected.  In fact, it wouldn’t be heinous hypocrisy.  It would be self-preservation, we are led to believe.

    LJ:

    I posted only half-serious.  The logic is good though.

  8. idm:

    What better way to ensure his safety than to cloak his identity as “double agent?”

  9. You never hear about atheists having sex with hookers because it isn’t news. Although, I suppose the same could be said of people who are so ashamed of their own feelings that they overcompensate by publicly bashing their own kind

    In some communities the police publicise the names of johns and the newspapers publish the names, and sometimes pictures, of the johns as ‘news’.  I would imagine that some of those johns are atheist. 

    Denial is one thing; hateful public bashing, especially going so far as leading a gay bashing organization, is a totally different matter.  What this guy did is inexcuseable.

  10. Hypocrisy/lying should be expected.  In fact, it wouldn’t be heinous hypocrisy.  It would be self-preservation, we are led to believe.

    There is a big difference between denying that one is gay vs. becoming the leader of a major gay bashing organization.

  11. Could it be there is a subtle, albeit nationally organized, strategy dedicated to exposing Christian-Nazism’s hate and hyprocrisy to the American public and media ??

    You betcha.
    Thank G-d and the DNC.

    And it ain’t over yet—stay tuned.

    rob@egoz.org

  12. Consi: I posted only half-serious.  The logic is good though.

    I thought that, and, no – if I were you I’d blame someone else for writing it as it was nowhere near your usual standard; far too many holes.  wink

    IDM: There is a big difference between denying that one is gay vs. becoming the leader of a major gay bashing organization.

    That captured the quintessence of Haggard’s faults. smile

  13. Condi-

    1) Nothing wrong with gay sex

    Right.

    2) Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world and it should be legalized

    Probably, although not for that reason.

    3) Drugs should be legalized.  Doing them is a form of civil disobedience.

    Yes, but again, not for the irrelevant stated reason.

    4) Gays shouldn’t out gays

    Personally, I think this is true only as a general rule, not a universal rule, and I think it falls under an overall “respect people’s privacy” maxim rather than any specific guidelines about how gay people should treat one another. I feel that you have a right to stay in the closet, but it’s not everyone else’s responsibility to help you stay there. In this particular situation, I don’t agree that the male prostitute had a responsibility to keep Haggard’s secrets for him. Doing so would allow Haggard to continue to hypocritically pursue an agenda that is directly detrimental to the male prostitute, who has every right to defend himself and to protect his own self-interest. That said, if we remove the issue of outing, it’s probably a violation of professional ethics for a prostitute to reveal his johns, and certainly a bad business decision.

    5) Society oppresses homosexuality thereby causing increased mental health problems within the gay community so we should expect to see some forms of self-hate within a portion of the gay community.
    6) Given 5, we should expect that a portion of those experiencing self-hate would put themselves in the closet and even masquerade as heterosexuals

    True, but Haggard wasn’t just suffering from self-loathing, he was suffering from other-loathing as well, and acting on it. And he was only doing a half-assed job of masquerading as a heterosexual, the most obvious characteristic of which would be not sleeping with other men. None of this would have happened had he not decided to sleep with a man while pursuing an anti-gay-rights agenda. I feel the same way about this that I do about abused children who grow up to become child abusers themselves: It’s important to understand the development of the pathology in order to prevent it, not in order to excuse it. I can feel empathy for a child abuser who was himself abused, but I’m not going to say that he gets a free pass because of it. Rather, I’m going to argue that this demonstrates why it’s not a great idea to abuse children. I’m sure you can draw the obvious parallels here yourself.

  14. What IDM and Ulfrekr said, they both beat me to it. My problem with Haggard has nothing to do with his being gay or doing drugs, it’s his hypocrisy for actively working against others who do the same while portraying himself as some sort of pious holy man worthy of emulating.

  15. Exactly what IDM, Ulfrekr and Les said.  Anybody who thinks most of us are raggin’on Haggert because he’s gay, are seriously irony-impaired.  Seems to have become a fundie talking point:  “Where’s all that librul tolerance we hear so much about?”  No no no, you not-so-intelligently-designed fools.  It’s the hypocrisy.

    Those of us that are laughing and pointing at this freak (and others like him) are doing so because his life’s work has been to make life miserable for gays all in the name of “their lord.”  They use every specious argument available to their tiny little imaginations to whip up an unreasonable and DANGEROUS hate against gay people. 

    I have and will never have ANY sympathy for these fatally delusional people and think they are worthy only of scorn and vicious contempt.

    Do I hate them?  Yes, I do.

  16. I commend him. Personally I think it’s time that the rest of the fundamentalist conservatives come out of the closet.

  17. Ufreker, you made me smile with your salutation and your response en toto.  When you do a good job of rising to the challenge, makes me hold out hope for the intelligent life on the liberal side of the fence.  It’s an endangered species but by gosh the intelligent liberal is not extinct yet.  Furthermore, I would agree:

    Ufreker said: None of this would have happened had he not decided to sleep with a man while pursuing an anti-gay-rights agenda.

    His choice.  Bad choice.

  18. …makes me hold out hope for the intelligent life on the liberal side of the fence.  It’s an endangered species but by gosh the intelligent liberal is not extinct yet.

    Careful. Let’s go out on that branch over there and assume I’m highly intelligent. Just because I don’t make my presence clear does not mean I’m an unintelligent anything (I get more frustrated by the false dichotomy of liberal vs conservative as time goes on). Rather, it is a matter of what more I can usefully contribute.

    We intelligent ones are out there in large numbers – but we don’t cross paths except by happenstance or an explicit calling.

  19. I commend him. Personally I think it’s time that the rest of the fundamentalist conservatives come out of the closet.

    I do not commend him, I condemn his actions.  He did not voluntarily come out of the closet, he was pushed.  Normally, I would consider it to be bad form to out another gay person.  In this case he was not outted simply because he was gay, he was outted because he is a hateful hypocrite. 

    It would not be productive for the fundamentalist conservatives to simply come out of the closet; it WOULD be productive for the fundamentalist conservatives to redirect their energies toward fighting those people who have decided to bash gays.

  20. “I am so sorry for the circumstances that have caused shame and embarrassment for all of you,”

    Does anybody know who he is apolgizing to?  To the bigots that he just embarrassed big time; or to gays, who are the ones who he has really hurt?

  21. Well, thanks Consi, I guess. Mook: HA!

    According to Wikipedia:

    Haggard focused ministry efforts on homosexuals early in his Colorado Springs ministry by frequenting gay bars and inviting men to his congregation.

    hmmm

  22. It looks like Haggard may get therapy,  James Dobson (Focus on the Family founder) will be overseeing Haggard’s counseling. smile I hope that queer bastard wishes that he hadn’t ever heard of christianity.  smile

  23. Consi: hold out hope for the intelligent life on the liberal side of the fence

    I too hold out hope for intelligent life on the fascist side of politics but I’m not holding my breath.
    Bull$hit has lost control of Congress – tsk tsk.
    Obviously it’s only mid-terms – a lot of spin will take place in the next two years – The Prince will win.

    The traits of an effective political leader are presented as:

    1. a willingness to imitate the behavior of great men, e.g. those of Ancient Rome in particular, the book being written in the Renaissance
    2. the ability to illustrate how government is necessary to the well-being of the populace, e.g. perhaps by demonstrating the consequences of yielding to mob rule by temporarily relaxing one’s grip
    3. a dedication to the art of war — if only for the state’s actual survival
    4. an understanding that apparent cruelties and vice may be essential to maintaining stability and power
    5. prudence with respect to disbursement of one’s own wealth
    6. making efforts to appear religious to sway the “vulgar.” Machiavelli extols King Ferdinand of Spain for using the cloak of religion to invade Italy numerous times — he praises the tactic yet hates the invasion of Italy by other monarchs.
    7. the wisdom to seek advice and counsel only when it is needed

    I especially like Point 6.  wink

  24. I too hold out hope for intelligent life on the fascist side of politics but I’m not holding my breath.

    There are lots of intelligent conservatives, LJ.  But compassionate conservatives?  The basic difference between conservatives and liberals is how wide a net they cast when considering what, and whom, they care about.

  25. I’d add that there are lots of stupid people on both sides of the fence as well. 
       
    I went to a pretty overtly liberal school. This school is routinely ranked one of the top five or six liberal arts colleges in the country, so one would assume that people who went there would be at least moderately intelligent, right? And yet, during the same week: I heard a young environmentalist talking about the need for “creative water usage” without any ability to give examples or even explain what she meant; and the head of the conservative student union wrote an op/ed in the school newspaper explaining how protecting the environment at all is unnecessary because if the earth could survive dinosaurs and volcanoes it is arrogant of us to think we can do anything to destroy it. Because T-Rex had the H-bomb, I guess.

    Both of these people were clearly idiots. But I think the example illustrates a general rule: stupid liberals will come up with bad ways to pursue good goals, or will pursue goals that have unintended negative consequences, whereas stupid conservatives often seem to pursue goals with totally foreseeable negative consequences, which are either disregarded or are in fact the goal itself. Take the gay marriage issue: liberals support it, perhaps without fully considering some of the unintended consequences it might have, whereas conservatives are against it, knowing full well that being so has a direct negative impact on gay people. This either doesn’t bother them or is in fact the driving ambition itself. There is no liberal equivalent to this. The most you can argue is that liberals sometimes treat corporations like conservatives treat people, which I have a hard time seeing as less moral than the opposite. So that’s why I generally find myself on the liberal side- at least they aren’t TRYING to fuck anybody over. But it would be extremely disingenuous to say that a lot of head-slappingly stupid stuff doesn’t go down on this side.

  26. I’d add that there are lots of stupid people on both sides of the fence as well.

    Indeed, Ulfrekr.  My favorite example of politically motivated stupidity on the left is the blinkered embrace by many “intellectuals” of postmodernism, a “politically correct” but content-free philosophy.  The classic takedown was physicist Alan Sokal’s paper Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity, which was accepted and published in the postmodern journal Social Text in 1996.  The editors did not notice that Sokal’s paper was a spoof, possible because logical thinking is a tool of imperialist dead white European males. LOL

  27. Les (11.07.06): Last week was not a good one for several Christian fundies.

    Interesting.

    It looks like the Ted Haggard scandal will go away now; Ted can get back to his scamming, poofter-bashing and all too common-to-all-fundies, hate-mongering.  wink

  28. On the face of it, seems this would be evidence that sexual orientation is not innate, or that if it is, it is changeable.  grin

  29. On the face of it, seems this would be evidence that sexual orientation is not innate, or that if it is, it is changeable

      Or possibly he was born gay, but suppressed it due to his upbringing, or is that too difficult for the intellect to comprehend on the illiberal side of the fence.

  30. Or it isn’t and Ted Haggard has simply tried to put himself back in the closest through denial.

    That is certainly possible.  At this point though there is no evidence that I’m aware of at this time that would support that supposition.  Accordingly, your statement stands as wild speculation and on its face. 

    Mine simply tracks a man’s own statements about his sexuality.  That is something that Brock is always chirping that we should take at face value.

  31. By all means Consi, let’s take Haggard at his word, after all, he has nothing to gain or lose by admitting to being gay. /sarcasm

    Please! The man’s a lair and manipulator with no conscience whatsoever. He was outed, he says he got help and, miracle of miracles, he’s now straight again. His miraculous conversion couldn’t possibly have anything to do with his peers, his religion or his ego, right?

    I can’t believe you’re holding this man up as an example of successful conversion therapy.

  32. Consi writes…

    That is certainly possible.  At this point though there is no evidence that I’m aware of at this time that would support that supposition.  Accordingly, your statement stands as wild speculation and on its face.

    Actually my statement is based on the fact that there are plenty of people who have been through the same so-called therapy sessions that Haggard went through that are still, surprise, quite gay despite their desires to be otherwise. Combined with the mounting evidence that sexual orientation is in fact inherent in a person. Nothing wild about that speculation at all.

    Mine simply tracks a man’s own statements about his sexuality.  That is something that Brock is always chirping that we should take at face value.

    Unless, of course, you have good reason to assume he’s a liar and Haggard has given us plenty of good reason to assume he’s lying.

  33. Wait, the treatment is ONLY for being gay? So.,… it’s okay if he’s still a meth addict?

    Consi, you’re too optimistic. I’d place bets that 3 weeks is not sufficient time to turn a lifetime of struggle. This goes double if he needed rehabilitation for drug use.

  34. Sadie: Brock, I get the sense that, for whatever reason, Consi was simply trying to take a cheap shot.

    You always seem to have Consi figured out. How do you read a mind like his? I always get stuck at the beginning of struggling with his vast intellect.

  35. Consi: On the face of it, seems this would be evidence that sexual orientation is not innate, or that if it is, it is changeable.

    Of course it is, Consi; of course it is.
    We all know this is your and most xians’ pet theory of how homosexuality comes into being and now here’s ‘proof’ from a man of god.
    We all know a man of god would never ever lie so therefore you can now wave this flag of proof under the noses of all poofters; you’ve discovered their secret.
    Just one little question, on behalf of all us hetros who can not remember making the decision to become gash-hunters … how old were you when you made the conscious decision you wouldn’t be able to handle the contempt you’d face if you chose to be gay?
    After all, it takes a tough man (or woman) to choose a life being the victim of physical and psychological violence doesn’t it?
    Like … you’d have to be stupid. Funny, none of the gays I’ve known have been stupid. Maybe they’re stupid if they’re American as well, eh? wink
    According to your theory homos must be a damn sight mentally and physically stronger than us hetros; I think hetros who enjoy vilifying poofters would be uncomfortable with that theory but don’t worry, they’re not bright enough to put those pieces of logic together and therefore won’t take offence.  wink

    Sorry – I overdid the sarcasm, didn’t I? But I thought I’d better tell you cos when someone says:

    On the face of it, seems this would be evidence that sexual orientation is not innate, or that if it is, it is changeable.

    I just know he’s brain dead and or stupid but I know that’s untrue of you so what am I left with.
    Obviously, for some reason, you don’t want to believe ‘god made them like that’ (using a term you’re familiar with) so there’s gotta be something else rattling around.
    And, that’s what I and many others would love to know.
    What exactly is your theory and logic about how someone arrives from outa the chute as, or otherwise becomes, gay?
    Don’t worry – this was a rhetorical rave for my own amusement only but I’ll bet if you comment at all, you’ll not give us your theory in any sensible way, you’ll just pick at insignificant little stuff just like a good lawyer or creationist (“Debate is an art form.) should.  smile

    Sadie: Consi’s in a league of his own.

    Yeah. If I followed the KISS principle I’d say:
    Consi’s an intelligent man who can’t reconsile the obvious with what he’s been programmed.
    But nothing’s ever that simple, is it?  LOL

  36. Consie:On the face of it, seems this would be evidence that sexual orientation is not innate, or that if it is, it is changeable.

    Yep.

    And wet streets cause rain…..

  37. Les: Actually my statement is based on the fact that there are plenty of people who have been through the same so-called therapy sessions that Haggard went through that are still, surprise, quite gay despite their desires to be otherwise.

    The same is equally true with substance abusers. So, should we write off all the addicts?  I think not, nor would you I suspect.  Yet, here you have a double standard.

    Brock: I always get stuck at the beginning of struggling with his vast intellect.

    You make me smile Brock.  I must confess though that there is no vast intellect here though.  Just a simple farm boy that wanted to pimp you a bit.  You see, simple folk like myself believe that if one standard is good for homosexuals proclaiming that they should be believed regarding their claims that they were born homosexual, then that same standard applies to those that claim they were able to change. One should believe what a man says about his sexuality right?  Unless you want to invoke a double standard.  Is that what you want Brock, a double standard?

    Sadie:

    kiss

  38. Debate is an art form

    And you John, are the monkey with the spray can grin grin

    You see, simple folk like myself believe that if one standard is good for homosexuals proclaiming that they should be believed regarding their claims that they were born homosexual, then that same standard applies to those that claim they were able to change. One should believe what a man says about his sexuality right?  Unless you want to invoke a double standard.  Is that what you want Brock, a double standard?

    As Vimes would say “Follow the money”.  Has Faggard got a motivation for declaring he can change?  What made him gay in the first place? I wouldn’t be surprised if he was raised a homophobic, so how come he isn’t (in that sensitive phrase of LJ’s) ‘a gash-hunter’. Does he have a coin he flips every morning? He obviously chose to be a

    poofter.

    Why?

  39. I’ve got a dare for you, Consi:
    Make a surprise visit to Haggard’s residence. Hide in the bushes and when he comes out (no pun intended) come on to him. If he turns you down you win. But something tells me he won’t and I’ll win.

    Ya gotta ask yourself one thing: How much faith do you really have that his conversion took?

  40. if one standard is good for homosexuals …, then that same standard applies to those that claim they were able to change.

    Normally I’d agree – most outa-the-closet gays are honest about their sexuality.
    But Ted* Haggard was a scamming liar and is still a scamming liar.
    Let’s face it – this gay-hating mongrel had it all: respected, loved & admired by his peers, minions and thralls, beautiful wife and kids, didn’t have to get an honest job cos his main scam was bringing in Buku dollars … and he risks it all on something that’s not part of his ‘character’.
    Next you’ll be telling me Anna Nicole Smith is alive and well and living with Elvis’ brother in the Bahamas.

    And you John, are the monkey with the spray can

    Love it.  LOL

    Ted* – Oz’s best known ‘awthor’ refers to the vagina as a ted – works for a Haggard too.  LOL

  41. Consi writes…

    The same is equally true with substance abusers. So, should we write off all the addicts?  I think not, nor would you I suspect.  Yet, here you have a double standard.

    First, show me the substance abuser who has overcome that addiction in three weeks as Haggard claims he’s managed to do with his homosexuality. Second, not all people who abuse substances are inherently prone to substance abuse. Some are just stupid.

    And I’m not writing Haggard off. I think the man should come to grips with his nature and move forward with his life, not try to shove his homosexuality behind a facade and try to be something he isn’t.

    You see, simple folk like myself believe that if one standard is good for homosexuals proclaiming that they should be believed regarding their claims that they were born homosexual, then that same standard applies to those that claim they were able to change.

    The difference here is that there’s actually some scientific evidence backing that claim up as opposed to the little to no evidence that three weeks of Christian-focused therapy in any way can “cure” someone of being gay.

  42. Brock:  Hide in the bushes and when he comes out (no pun intended) come on to him. If he turns you down you win

    Oh how I do love prop bets and this one is tantalizing.  Moreover, I must say that I’m truly touched that built into the prop is the assumption that all gay men would find me simply irrestible. grin  Thank you for the compliment. 

    If not for the minor detail of potential trespass, attempted battery, battery and stalking charges, any of which if filed I’d have to report to an association that I belong to, I would jump all over this.  In light of the foregoing though, I must respectfully pass on this prop bet.

    First, show me the substance abuser who has overcome that addiction in three weeks as Haggard claims he’s managed to do with his homosexuality. Second, not all people who abuse substances are inherently prone to substance abuse.

    I’m not sure how the second relates to my comment about failed substance abuse treatment for substance abusers.  That aside, it is my understanding that Haggard will continue to undergo further treatment as part of his recovery.  It was my understanding that like the recovering addict that proclaims themself clean (and receives standing ovations for even a day clean) Haggard is proclaiming himself heterosexual.  The distinctions you are making are not substantive ones. 

    The difference here is that there’s actually some scientific evidence backing that claim up as opposed to the little to no evidence that three weeks of Christian-focused therapy in any way can “cure” someone of being gay.

    My statement that drew this remark was really directed at Brock and idm.  They have both argued that we should give credence to individual statements made by gay men that are active within the gay community about the nature of homosexuality, while at the same time arguing that we should disregard those that former members of the gay community that are engaged in a heterosexual lifestyle.  The reasoning behind their arguments was not that scientific evidence supported either side.  The argument was simply an impassioned plea for me to give credence to what they said personally about their own sexuality and those gay men that have made similar statements. 

    It is an emotionally compelling argument.  Frankly, it is difficult for me to disregard such emotionally evocative arguments.  However, to do as they plead does require a double standard.  As special as I believe Brock is I don’t think anybody should get a separate standard.

    As regards scientific evidence for being born homosexual, I remain very skeptical.  So should you.  As the thread on twin studies pointedly revealed, the evidence does not support a genetic basis for homosexuality.  There is precious little evidence and much speculation (See your article for good examples of speculation based on too few facts) about biological causation.  The question right now remains very much up in the air with none of the theories, familial or biological, even being able to come remotely close to meeting the standard of a preponderance of the evidence.  Accordingly, you are making assumptions about the evidence based on your bias in favor of what you think the right theory of explanation may be. 

    That bias carries over into your assessment of the veracity of those who proclaim themselves to be recovering homosexuals.  So it matters not that the subject is Haggard.

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