North Korea drops the bomb.

So it looks like North Korea may have the bomb after all. Meanwhile our troops are still tied up with the arduous task of dieing in ever increasing record numbers in Iraq—a country that posed no threat at all to anyone outside of its own borders.

Of course we’ve already fought the Korean war once before and it didn’t go as well as we’d expected it to, but you could’ve still made a stronger argument for invading that country three years ago than you could about Iraq. Of course it helps if we had elected someone who had a friggin’ clue in the first place:

     George W. pulled Bandar aside.
     "Bandar, I guess you’re the best asshole who knows about the world. Explain to me one thing."
     "Governor, what is it?"
     "Why should I care about North Korea?"
     Bandar said he didn’t really know. It was one of the few countries that he did not work on for King Fahd.
     "I get these briefings on all parts of the world," Bush said, "and everybody is talking to me about North Korea."
     "I’ll tell you what, Governor," Bandar said. "One reason should make you care about North Korea."
     "All right, smart alek," Bush said, "tell me."
     "The 38,000 American troops right on the border." …"If nothing else counts, this counts. One shot across the border and you lose half these people immediately. You lose 15,000 Americans in a chemical or biological or even regular attack. The United State of America is at war instantly."—State of Denial, Bob Woodward

Hat tip to Think Progress.

 

41 thoughts on “North Korea drops the bomb.

  1. I hate to go all off-topic more or less. I’m a major oil news junky though and thought I would share a bit of an article by Jan Lundberg with you all. If he and many other anylists and geologists are correct…well, we just don’t have to worry about nukes much.
        Jan Lundberg, by the way, was for 16 years the publisher of the Lundberg Letter. The “bible of the oil industry”.

        “There is no Plan B for coping with a terminal oil shock to the economy. Therefore, a breakdown of society must ensue, starting with “the trucks will not be pulling into Wal-Mart or Safeway,” as I was quoted in Congress on May 12, 2005. When people cannot get transportation to their jobs, business stops. People will be panicking first about gasoline, and then about how much food and water they have—tragically trying to protect those meager supplies in an unforgiving urban environment. Nature has been made to stop offering up the simple essentials of life, when the privatized fortress and paved-over toxic cities rely on money and cheap energy to move everything around the world. The world as we “know” it will end but we’ll get to know the world as it really is a lot better.

    Die off will kick in first in terms of riots and killings by armed marauders, and “the police and military will not be able to keep order more than a few days, if at all” [my statement in Congress]. Next will come starvation, and cannibalism can only get people so far—especially with rampant disease and lack of clean water to drink. Starvation will take care of perhaps 95% (ninety-five per cent) of the petroleum-dependent populations in the U.S. and perhaps elsewhere in modern industrialized countries. Did I mention overpopulation? The simple fact is that population has far overshot the ecological carrying capacity of the whole planet, especially in the fossil fuelish/foolish U.S.A. And petroleum is how food is grown, distributed, packaged and prepared.

    After two months, most of the starvation will have had its effect because only the largest and strongest men can fast 50 days perhaps (with good water supply). Malnutrition and poor water quality will take out millions of people afterwards, as was seen in Iraq after the Gulf War during U.S.-imposed U.N. sanctions.”

  2. So it looks like North Korea may have the bomb after all. Meanwhile our troops are still tied up with the arduous task of dieing in ever increasing record numbers in Iraq—a country that posed no threat at all to anyone outside of its own borders.

    Of course we’ve already fought the Korean war once before and it didn’t go as well as we’d expected it to, but you could’ve still made a stronger argument for invading that country three years ago than you could about Iraq.

    The US actually has a sizeable force in S. Korea—but even if every tank and soldier in Iraq were in Korea, we probably wouldn’t have moved on the North, for a couple of very good reasons:

    1.  The South wouldn’t have allowed it.  They don’t want all of the North’s conventional weapons raining down on Seoul, even assuming the North didn’t already have nukes.

    2.  The Chinese wouldn’t have allowed it.  Even though they are (and have been) royally pissed at the North.

    Iraq was doable because there was no major opposition to it in the area (and because Saddam Hussein did everything but pull down his pants and moon the camera to say, “I dare you!”).  We can argue over what level of threat Iraq posed (or would have posed today), and we can certainly agree that Bush hasn’t done much to deal with North Korea (though few of his predecessors have had much luck there, either).  But a conventional campaign against the North, unless it actually invaded south, was never in the cards.

  3. Eye off the ball, as usual.  This is just the latest example.  Why, oh, why aren’t the Dems chanting, “Dude, where’s Osama?”  That it takes a sex scandal to start Joe America thinking seriously at chucking this Adminstration’s Congressional toadies out is bad enough.  Knowing that the same toadies will still be set with cushy lobbying/consulting/executive-type jobs for the rest of their freaking lives as a reward for @#$&*ing over America’s long-term interests is see-red infuriating.

  4. Good points, Dave.  But you’re forgetting that North Korea’s government is terminally paranoid, which is has its good points in a negotiating situation.  And, most importantly, it’s a hell of a lot easier to “negotiate” when you have a hundred thousand or so extra pairs of boots that could be stomping on Korean soil.  And the fact is that North Korea was also mooning us, too.  But the Administration somehow managed not to be shocked—shocked, I tell you!—that a rogue state run by ruthless dictators was developing weapons of mass destruction.  The hypocrisy of the double-standard is just staggering.  I wonder how Bush/Cheney/Rove/Rumsfeld shave every morning.  They can’t possibly see a reflection in the mirror anymore…

  5. One should also note that the Norks have been preparing for war with the US ever since the active shooting stopped.  Their population is trained in guerrilla warfare which unfortunately works really, really well in mountainous terrain like NK.  They may not have the most modern equipment but as the old saying goes “quantity has a quality all its own”.

    The US could have attacked NK.  It would have been opposed by the South Koreans and the Chinese, both of whom the US would really rather not upset (as to whether the current administration cares about not upsetting them I cannot say).  Still, the US could have mounted a semi-effective air campaign using carriers, for instance.  It would have caused a much larger war as the Norks headed south, assuming they were incapable of sinking the carriers (a qualified assumption – aircraft carrier battle groups haven’t faced a serious test since WW2 and may be as vulnerable as their critics suggest).  Either that or the Norks would lean on the South to stop the war or face getting Seoul wiped off the map with conventional artillery.  Whether the North could or could not do that is open to debate, but you wouldn’t catch me in downtown Seoul if fighting did break out.

    The big difference between pre-invasion Iraq and NK?  The Norks would require a lot more blood and pain up front as opposed to the run down armed forces Iraq had.

  6. This is pretty disturbing: we could potentially have a very grave situation on our hands here. At the same time, it’s important to keep in mind that nuclear tests were conducted all the time during the Cold War. That’s not to say that the actions of Kim Jong II are in any sense trivial, however.

  7. That’s why it’s important to get closer to (Red) China, diplomatically.
    But when I see the childish attitude the USA still holds towards a small and hardly significant Cuba after 47 years, I hold little hope.
    Kim Jong-il (not Kim Jong mentally ill LOL ) is just flexing his muscles – he’s not gonna declare war on anyone – he’s just singing What about Me.
    I think Kim is a baby rattling the sides of a cot from December 2002, still rings true.
    Nuclear-wise I’m still much more fearful of Pakistan because they have Allah on their side.

  8. Kim Jong IL is one of the greatest leaders in the world. Who else could make a communist dictatorship work in today’s world.

    Kim comes in a close 2nd on my favorite persons list. After Hitler, of course.  grin

  9. Who else could make a communist dictatorship work in today’s world.

    Castro comes to mind with half the population of about 11 million and a similar GDP.
    Fidel seems much more benevolent than Kim.

    DoF: At the time, the US was led by somebody sane and competent.

    But now?  LOL

  10. Castro comes to mind with half the population of about 11 million and a similar GDP.

    Humm… A nut with a nuke, or a nut with cigars?

  11. But now?

    What?  I didn’ say nuthin!  Jus’ talkin’ about history…  smirk

    an ignore button would be really nice…

    We don’t need a button to ignore someone, KPG.  For instance, some hypothetical person could keep posting trying to get a reaction, and we could just not respond to ‘em.  Nothing to it.

  12. We don’t need a button to ignore someone, KPG.  For instance, some hypothetical person could keep posting trying to get a reaction, and we could just not respond to ‘em.  Nothing to it.

    With most trolls, that’s pretty simple DOF. But the shit the spews from this guys mouth makes my blood pressure rise everytime I see it.

  13. But the shit the spews from this guys mouth makes my blood pressure rise every time I see it.

    Oh, come on. There has to be SOMEONE here that agrees with at least some of what I post.

    Admit it, Hitler did some things right. The autobahn, Volkswagen, eugenics, attempted world domination….

  14. With most trolls, that’s pretty simple DOF. But the shit the spews from this guys mouth makes my blood pressure rise everytime I see it.

    Perhaps a lesson from the gospel of Homer Simpson will help.  Remember the Halloween episode when all the giant advertising icons came to life and raged all over Springfield, leaving a wake of destruction behind them?  Marge realized that they got their power from the attention everyone paid them.  So everyone turned their backs, and the town was saved.

    No relation to any hypothetical trolls, but it’s a nice story anyway.

  15. Moloch: Oh, come on. There has to be SOMEONE here that agrees with at least some of what I post.

    In the immortal words of Steven Tyler, dream on.

    I am a fan of Volkswagen vehicles (particularly the vans), but it has nothing to do with the evil, artistically-impaired meglomaniac that you claim to hero-worship.

  16. Double-dipping: DOF and KPG are absolutely right. Moloch is a desperate attention-seeking troll, and I will no longer waste any more of my brain cells or life engaging the idiot. Goodbye, Moloch. Here’s hoping the door hits your ass on the way out.

  17. Goodbye, Moloch. Here’s hoping the door hits your ass on the way out.

    Good luck. You can’t just wiggle your nose and make me disappear.

  18. Seemed like a good time to share a happy song about nuclear proliferation, from mathematician, musician, and comedian Tom Lehrer

    One of the big news items of the past year concerned the fact that China, which we called “Red China,” exploded a nuclear bomb, which we called a device. Then Indonesia announced that it was going to have one soon, and proliferation became the word of the day. Here’s a song about that:

    WHO’S NEXT

    First we got the bomb, and that was good,
    ‘Cause we love peace and motherhood.
    Then Russia got the bomb, but that’s okay,
    ‘Cause the balance of power’s maintained that way.
    Who’s next?

    France got the bomb, but don’t you grieve,
    ‘Cause they’re on our side (I believe).
    China got the bomb, but have no fears,
    They can’t wipe us out for at least five years.
    Who’s next?

    Then Indonesia claimed that they
    Were gonna get one any day.
    South Africa wants two, that’s right:
    One for the black and one for the white.
    Who’s next?

    Egypt’s gonna get one too,
    Just to use on you know who.
    So Israel’s getting tense.
    Wants one in self defense.
    “The Lord’s our shepherd,” says the psalm,
    But just in case, we better get a bomb.
    Who’s next?

    Luxembourg is next to go,
    And (who knows?) maybe Monaco.
    We’ll try to stay serene and calm
    When Alabama gets the bomb.
    Who’s next?
    Who’s next?
    Who’s next?

    I don’t know about that last one – if Alabama gets the bomb it might be time to panic big surprise

  19. Actually I’m not particularly worried about North Korea having The Bomb. The more aggravating they get the more they piss of the Chinese. The Chinese, meanwhile have likely been wetting themselves over the prospect of actually flexing the Chinese military muscle a bit in a way that didn’t draw the US Navy to the coast of Taiwan like flies.

    Pissing off the United States as N Korea is all talk – it’s a delicate political situation far away while we occupy Iraq and Afghanistan and we’re unlikely to do much more than make them more desparate and poor with our economic voodoo on them. China on the other hand, has just had talks with Japan about N Korea and no doubt posed the question: “If China decided to do something about N Korea, would Japan support us?”

    That’s probably a massive summary and radical turn of the discussion, but I think from all the white as rice smiles all around, everyone in Asia must have come to the conclusion that Kim Jong Il as a nuclear neighbor within spitting distance is a bit more pressing than Californians quivering in fear from across the Pacific. Pushing China, therefore, would well and truly suck for N Korea. If I were S Korea, in fact, I’d be stepping out and impressing on everyone how much S Korea really respects China, just to increase the smell of urine in Kim’s chair.

    In fact, it seems to me that the tiny might-be-nuclear test that N Korea staged was a response to these meetings. “Back off, we can kill Chinese!” more than “Death to the Americans!”, despite any language to the contrary. Except that of all nations with the exception of India, China is the best prepared to absorb a short-lived small-scale nuclear exchange by sheer weight of numbers and the assured victory of massive attrition. Then there is the political message to S Korea, which is probably more dangerous considering that the damage to S Korea in any conflict with any players would be the long term stickler for the wider world.

    What would be the best possible hope for N Korea during any escalation? Well, N Korea can hardly hope to win S Korea with nuclear force or even threat of nuclear force – for long term sustainability of an occupation N Korea would have to curb the use of nukes in the first place, or else blow away most of the benefit of taking S Korea. China? Be real. Japan? Escalation threats in Japan should disturb anyone, because each one underscores another reason Japan should divert itself back toward a more proactive military. If that doesn’t seem worrisome as a Westerner, think about how it would seem to China to suddenly have a new aggressive and militarized Japan again off its eastern borders? But, much to N Korea’s dismay apparently, Japan and China apparently are aggreement about something over there, and if it’s a committment to letting China “take care of things?”

    The only other possible ploy, as it seems to me, is to play on the American mindset and try to draw the USA into the discussion. The USA isn’t going to gain anything by letting China knock some heads in Pyongyang, and if N Korea were extremely lucky and the US were extremely stupid then we could let the whole thing be recast as a conflict between China and the US – with poor N Korea only providing an impromptu field of discussion for differences in cultural and political mindsets.

    Personally I think the whole Castro thing is apt. Let the little fucker mouth off all he wants to. Let him have his nuclear toys and his shattered economy and his famines. Wait for him to die, for the military to decide that the best thing for N Korea would be to chop off his head and beg for a re-realized whole Korea, and basically just ignore him unless we find out that he’s stepped outside the short leash we’ve allowed him. And talk to the Chinese, discuss what you’ll allow and won’t allow, what would be an unforgivable closeness to S Korea, etc. The Chinese don’t want to fight the US right now anymore than we want to fight China, and they’re really the boots in the field best set to deal with Kim Jong Il backed into a corner anyways.

    Meh. I talk too much.

  20. Mr. Mook: “If I were S Korea, in fact, I’d be stepping out and impressing on everyone how much S Korea really respects China, just to increase
    the smell of urine in Kim’s chair.

    LOL

    You could be right – it occurred to me that if China wants to become a respected superpower overnight (the US of the 21st century) they could march in and take North Korea and hand it over to South Korea and then leave.  Voila!  Instant credibility, world beats a path to their door, etc.

    Understandably S. Korea is a bit nervous right now.  Il’s way of making friends and influencing people is to aim a lot of pointy-bangy things at Seoul. 

    Only problem with letting Il have nukes is; might he give one to terrorists?  Anyone have thoughts on if that can be prevented?

  21. If I were China, I’d nuke out Pyongyang, merge the country into one Korea and sell all my fake Nike’s there.

    That’s instant credibility to the world- and a new market segment.

  22. Actually the South Koreans don’t want full reunification anytime soon.  They know the mess in the North will make the problems Germany has had reintegrating the old East Germany back into itself look like the 24 hour flu.

  23. There has to be SOMEONE here that agrees with at least some of what I post

    The only good thing about Hitler is that he had a view and acted on it, instead of wasting his life, not many people do that today.

  24. MM: Actually I’m not particularly worried about North Korea having The Bomb.

    After I get through all the sensationalised speculation, I agree with you.

    Meh. I talk too much.

    Nah! You make a lot of logical sense.
    So far today I’ve discarded two comments to this – one accidentally and another cos I didn’t think I captured the essence of the situation.
    China hates Japan and will never forgive the Nanking Massacre.
    Both NorK and SouK hate Japan for WW2.
    Those four are the only real players in the area.
    The UN’d like to think they have a stake but they really haven’t.
    I think KJ-il has a good case to throw a nuke at the US.
    Bull$hit, in all his wisdom (and I use the word with a fair amount of sarky attached) with his weirdly incurious world view and absolutely no knowledge of the ‘if I say or do this, what will the LONG term ramifications be’ method of thinking, attacked Iraq with much less ‘evidence’.
    But KJ-il won’t do that – he’s like a little kid juggling dangerously sharp knives and scaring the audience – look at me, look at me – he’s having way too much fun.  LOL
    China doesn’t give a fuck – a bit of pay back for all the shit they’ve copped from the west over the last 200 years and, they’re slowly reeling (sucking) in the west, economically.
    They’ll say they’re gonna do this and that to NorK but they love this game, too.
    No. The only way the US can win this one is to do what they do well.
    Send a nuke to Beijing and say that KJ-il did it.  LOL
    It’s not even as if the US can instigate puppet regimes like they did all through South America, the MidEast and the Philippines.
    It’s not if they can even play the trade sanctions game.
    Who’s gonna tell China to stop trading with NorK?
    As for KJ-il selling a nuke to any Muslim countries – Nah – he might be a paranoid megalomaniac but he’s not stupid – he wouldn’t trust the camel jockeys, their Allah (puh smile ) and desire for world domination, anymore than we do.
    EORave.

  25. The only good thing about Hitler is that he had a view and acted on it, instead of wasting his life, not many people do that today.

    That’s a novel definition of “good”, Tom.  I guess any serial killer is “good” by those standards.  In my humble opinion, it would have been “good” if Hitler had gotten into the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna and graced us with more of his kitschy landscapes, and not “wasted” the lives of so many others.

  26. They are saying this morning that it was probably not a Nuke. It was just a bunch of old explosives. Explosives over time become unstable, they have to be destroyed. He could of added in some radioactive material into the recipe. “More bang for the Buck” I would not waste a lot of time being worried about N. Korea or Moloch. We will always have little men and their Fantasy’s.

  27. I would bet that the Norks did set off a nuke.  Not a very good nuke, but a nuke nonetheless.  I wouldn’t be surprised if they used their first nuke design and have better ones now.  It’s not too difficult to make a Hiroshima style gun-cannon nuke, especially if you have the resources of a state (even the limited resources of NK).  They’re inefficient and can’t really be scaled into smaller sized but larger exploding weapons but they are a nuke.

    Now, if they instead went with a Nagasaki style implosion bomb it could have fizzled if they didn’t do the plutonium separation right.  Pu 240 has a nasty habit of predetonating before you push the mass from critical to supercritical.  Just a helpful hint to all you future nuclear powers out there.

    I tend to think the whole “they faked it” argument is whistling past the graveyard.  As far as is known, every state that has seriously tried to build a nuke has succeeded.  Why should it be any different for NK?

  28. According to today’s ‘Guardian’ the sesmic shock can not be used to tell if a nuke or conventional- just a big bang.  However a bit of ‘instant sunshine’ forms certain isotopes (Xenon I think it said) that only come from a nuke. Couple of days and a Blackbird flight later there will be evidence one way or another. Whether we are told the truth is another thing…

  29. Trust me, I don’t at all agree with what Hitler did and if I could go back in time and snipe Hitler I would, I’m just saying that he did something with his life when so many other are wasting there own, myself included.

  30. I tend to think the whole “they faked it” argument is whistling past the graveyard.  As far as is known, every state that has seriously tried to build a nuke has succeeded.  Why should it be any different for NK?

    Because NK has a demonstrable political reason for moving up their testing timeline thanks to the talks between China and Japan recently. Sure, if engineering concerns were all that weighed in on the matter they’d probably not have any problems, but they have political concerns as well and when you consider those it might be that NK wanted to demonstrate a nuclear capability while there were still current discussions ongoing between its neighbors with greatest interest and political latitude regarding NK. (South Korea and USA, tied together as they are, are forced into a fairly adversarial relationship with NK no matter what; meanwhile Russia might want to chime in more forcefully, but Russia isn’t in a position to risk any sort of confrontation with the Chinese on almost any matter)

    China is historically an ally of NK, and Japan’s got the next closest target of “people friendly to the US” beyond South Korea. China, however, isn’t led by a blustering idiot and their economy certainly gets a whole lot more presents under the Xmas tree from trading with the US, South Korea, and Japan than they do from destitute and poor North Korea. Before the talks between China and Japan began a week ago I’d have said that, yes, a united front between China and Japan regarding North Korea would be unlikely. Shinzo Abe however, the newest Japanese Prime Minister, hasn’t done anything specifically that has aroused the ire of China in the past like visiting the Yasukuni Shrine honoring Japan’s war dead (including some noteworthy war criminals), and despite that historical closeness between NK and China the Koreans decided to throw the test out anyways in a way that at the very least makes the Chinese calls for restraint look questionable.

    I’ve even heard some supposed quotes from Chinese officials as saying that the North Koreans should “do as they’re told.” That’s a far stretch away from “we’re going to invade that crazy bastard and fix this diplomatic mess he’s put us in,” but it’s possible that it’s an insight into the way that China looks upon this whole testing issue in the first place. If North Korea continues to damage the Chinese reputation and puts unpleasant diplomatic strains upon Chinese relations with trading partners, I don’t see how China can afford NOT to do something pointed about them, in fact. North Korea doesn’t bring anything beneficial to the table for China at all (except maybe some intelligence from selling spots across the DMZ to spy on the Americans spying on the Koreans and Chinese across the DMZ), and almost everyone else in the region does.

    You are China. You want people to take you seriously. You watch Team America: World Police, is Kim Jong Il the sort of person you want to be friends with to make people respect you?

  31. You want people to take you seriously. You watch Team America: World Police, is Kim Jong Il the sort of person you want to be friends with to make people respect you?

    Crazy little bastard…

    If only he had made a shorter timer…..

  32. The timing is really strange unless there are internal problems within the N.Korea political system. Daddy Kim was greatly respected and love and admired by the N. Koreans and if fact in a strange way almost rational.  Little Kim has long been known as an actor , the pretender, thus the bushy hair, addiction to porn and paranoia.  I am not sure that this was all aimed at the outside world. The old guard might be gettin a tad nervous, little kim really hasn’t improved much of anything since his dad started his dirt nap.

  33. Interesting graphic-novel-excerpt whose author visited North Korea:

    http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2006/oct/graphic/excerpt.pdf

    I’m a big, enthusiastic researcher of North Korea, once having access to the West’s largest library of all things North Korea (Hebrew U) from books, papers, and all sorts of other publications.  Some of the oddest things i remember from my readings:

    [] originally, after a policy change, all radios had to be “re-registered” where a technician soldered the frequency dial to the state-station
    [] later, all radios were “upgraded” to wire-connected “radios”.  (TV’s went through the same “upgrade”-process, too as they were deployed among the ruling populace and lucky village halls)
    [] Kijong-dong, a fake village: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gijeong-dong
    [] Much like the early 1950’s CCCP, the North has a dizzying complexity of political parties, some of typists, factory workers, etc.  North Koreans, it would appear, have a huge range of political alternatives with which to voice their fevered praise of their Leader’s glorious achievements…!
    [] The “West” regularly drops magazines, transistor radios (with working frequency dials), and high-fat/sugar foods (candies, etc.), and lots of audio cassettes.
    [] The DMZ’s axe-murder incident (a brief insight into North Korean tactical philosophy): http://www.tourdmz.com/english/04dmz/p1-4.php
    [] Tunnels and more tunnels (and more NKorean mentality insights!): “http://www.tourdmz.com/english/04dmz/p2-1.php
    When the tunnel was initially discovered…the North insisted unreasonably that the tunnel had no connection to them whatsoever.”

    Wonkish Policy Perspective:
    Some believe there are, already, North Korean nuclear weapons deposited in multiple West-allied cities, all of their carriers listening intently for the Dear Leader’s golden go-word.

    rob@egoz.org

  34. Se-e-xy Sadie: I am a fan of Volkswagen vehicles (particularly the vans),

    Looks like this thread’s about done. smile
    Reminds me of a Little Johnny joke:
    Teacher – school – decides to do words starting with letters from the alphabet(a)?
    A – Johnny’s waving his arm – she picks Anne: A is for apple miss. Well done Anne.
    B – Johnny’s waving his arm – she picks Betty: B is for baby, Miss. Well done Betty.
    C – Johnny’s waving his arm – she picks Charlie: C is for carrot Miss. Well done, Charlie.
    Of course the story could get very long but she gets to R and thinks there’s nothing that Little Johnny could say here that was obscene (did I mention that Little Johnny’s a filthy minded little bastard?)
    R – Yes, Miss. R is for rats.
    Rats, Johnny?
    Yes, Miss. Rats. Big bastards with balls this big and all they do is root.
    I know. It’s an old joke – I heard it when I was 12 – but you grinned, di’ntcha?  LOL

  35. I’m afraid you’ve lost me there, John. I’ve heard several “Little Johnny” jokes (although he’s usually named “Tommy” in the ones I’ve heard), but never that one. wink

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