Jesus has returned and he’s a 35 year-old Hindu woman now.

Bet you never saw this one coming, eh?

DURBUN: A Hindu woman has said she is Jesus Christ and claims to have the “stigmata of Jesus” on her palms, feet and stomach, as well as the power to heal the sick.

Katherine Jhawarelall, 35, who has a degree in criminology, said that she was born with the stigmata and also claimed that Hebrew scriptures and religious symbols from the Bible appear on the walls of her home, an international daily reported.

She was quoted as saying that she was initially startled “but eventually came to realize and accept who she was.”

Yeah, I’d imagine suddenly realizing you’re not really a female Hindu criminologist, but the second coming of Christ would be just a teeny bit startling. I bet there’s going to be a lot of pissed off old rich white Christian Evangelists out there once they realize the prank Jesus has pulled on them now!

105 thoughts on “Jesus has returned and he’s a 35 year-old Hindu woman now.

  1. Hebrew Scriptures? What does Hebrew have to do with The LORD Jesus Christ. Everyone knows that everyone in 1st century Judea spoke English.

  2. Thanks, Paul. Now I’ve got a recent copy of your IP address. Makes banning you so much easier.

  3. K-man: Maybe even a sitcom……

    Hee hee…a sort of latter-day “Dharma and Greg,” only involving one individual.

    I’d watch it—the trailer, anyway. wink

  4. So, is Jesus Christ what is meant when we say Holy Cow?

    Dam! Does this mean that those wafers are really meat byproduct?

    I think this whole things is * wait for it *

    Utterly ridiculus!

    Thank you, thank you. I’ll be here all week. Try the veal and tip your wait staff.

  5. Jesus is not a Hindu woman.  Or any other person that has a mark on their forehead.  He is not a Muslum either.  How do I know?  He came to New York and talked to me.  That is right. He has returned, but not in body.  Jesus talked to me in the spring of 2006.  I have proof. I will say that again, I don’t have faith, I have proof.  This is not at lie or a joke.  Jesus really has returned. He talke to me. I am Melanie Stephan.

  6. Melanie Stephen: Jesus is not a Hindu woman.  Or any other person that has a mark on their forehead.  He is not a Muslum either.  How do I know?  He came to New York and talked to me.  That is right. He has returned, but not in body.

    Umm … Melanie?

    If he didn’t return “in body” then how can you speak with any conviction about his forehead?

    Are you one of those crazy people, or am I being punked?

  7. Melanie Stephan – please show us your proof in that case

    Y’now it’s possible that someone as high ranking as jesus might be able to pull off multiple existences, living and otherwise, we can’t prove either way. Maybe living people have a dead aspect to their soul, maybe that’s involved in dreaming and subconcious memory long after something’s unrecallable from the concious, maybe not

    Also you cannot dismiss in some cases the possibility that a spirit might make only partial contribution to conciousness, a single conciousness could be made up of many specialist souls much like a single multicellular organism is made up of specialist cells. When you dream you can divide conciousness and have a conversation with an imaginary character without knowing what the imaginary character will say, perhaps schizophrenics also do this in daylight hallucinations. I don’t know.

  8. I think Melanie forgot to take her medicine again.

    DC, don’t encourage the loonies. It only worsens their condition.

  9. In a desperate search for amusement I did a google on Melanie and found some interesting stuff.

    This is from a site reviewing a book about Karl Rove:

    I typed in ‘http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/12/rove-faith-based’ in the google box and this site was number one. Well Jesus did talk to me, I think he has returned. No one believes me, he only talked to me and then he left town. Any way I have proof that he was here. Believe it or not, I don’t care. I am not here to convert anyone. Jesus told me the meaning of First is Last. This seemed to be a big issue with him. It means that when you die it is your birthday.

    Now I’m wondering where he went after he left town. But wait, it get’s better. Melanie weighes in on http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2006/11/critical_analys_1.html….

    Intelligent Design, Yes, I have proof that there is intelligence behind all of this. How do I know? I was contacted by an intelligence. How was I contacted? The first contact was in three dreams. Then events that followed told me who the dreams were from. They were from the Creator. He does want to have contact with us. Why did he pick me for this contact? That is the same question that I have, I don’t know. I have proof of my story, and I have witnesses and objects.
    OH, one more thing before I post this. One of the pieces of proof is that he told me who killed JFK. My question was why would be tell me this, it has nothing to do with his creations or the other messages he gave me. I think it was so that people would believe that he contacted me. The man that Killed JFK was a policeman in Dallas, Texas on Nov. 22, 1963. His initials are F. R., his last name is Ritter. I think some day he will confess or leave something in his will to say that he was involved in the shooting. That is only one piece of proof that I was contacted. Really who would know who killed John F. Kennedy besides the killer? Maybe God for one. I live in New York, I have never been in the South. The only way that I know this is that an Intelligence Contacted me, The Creator. That is not a lie, I don’t lie. I don’t go to Church and I am not here to convert anyone. This is not a joke, I am very serious about what I wrote here.

    Yes, that’s right. JF Fucking K.

    I love the tinfoil hat people. They’re so quaint.

    Sorry to encourage her, Les, but this was just too amusing to pass up.

  10. I’ll try to criticise w/o encouraging, I’m a little skeptical when someone uses religion to blame someone else:
    Maybe it was Melanie that killed JFK, and was trying behind a mask of religion to pass the blame, or maybe it’s just that Melanie knows F R Ritter and doesn’t like him, or even still maybe Melanie and Ritter are one of the same and bragging behind an avatar, maybe Melanie was casting a name into the winds which cannot be proven to try to add weight. I googled F.R.Ritter and found someone by that name who was writing articles on some kind of psychology computer stuff (doesn’t mean it’s same person though, but all the initials matched):

    http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/research/credit/technical_reports/main.html

    Besides proof is not just taking a word for it, it’s evidence that survives past an event. If you had hard evidence, show it to the newspapers and see what they make of it- if it was watertight we would all hear about it. Sounded like that’s what was intended; unless maybe it was intended that you made a fool of yourself for some divine purpose

    Jesus told me the meaning of First is Last. This seemed to be a big issue with him.

    The way that’s phrased sounds like Melanie noticed that JC thought it was important but didn’t understand why because there is no explanation, only an observation of another person’s reaction. I tend to see this when people don’t fully engage with the issue (they wouldn’t leave much space for reaction observation if they were fully engaged)
    The idea of first is last only as far as I can tell, to do with solid objects that are not able to move past each other. If you filled a narrow cylinder with balls, the first to go in would be the last to come out only bacause they cannot move past each other. Liquids and gasses can move past each other, being fluid, and so first into a pipe isn’t necessarily last, but if mixing is incomplete it may have firther to travel

    It means that when you die it is your birthday

    It doesn’t link at all, besides, a birthday is an arbitary point in time because what could be so important about the earth being at approximately the same stage in a rotation around the sun in terms of when you die? A planet, a star even, are only observed as lumps of matter, with reactions to provide the light you might see, there is nothing uniquely mystical about a lump of matter
    BTW- There’s about a 0.27% chance of dying on your birthday

  11. If he didn’t return “in body” then how can you speak with any conviction about his forehead?

    Michael, that was a bit below the belt, even for you.
    Using logic to reason with Mel … what are you going to do next?
    Suggest she open her eyes from the dream?
    Not to take acid trips seriously?
    Get a fuckin’ life?  LOL

  12. Hi, this is Melanie again.  I was surprized you found some of the things that I wrote to other people.  I am not lying. I saw Jesus in my dream. Everything in the dream came true the next day.  That is what really got my attention. I think only God can do that. He talked to me in symbols. It is hard to explain. I wrote a book explaining what he said and how he talked to me.  It is 123 pages long.  So the story is very long. Some of it does sound crazy.  But talking to God is strange. Now I have a question for you.  When Jesus does return he has to contact someone doesn’t he?  I don’t know why he talked to me.  I have been searching the net to find other people that he has talked to also.  I have not been able to find anyone else.  Thank you for taking an interest.  I don’t care if anyone believes me or not am I here to convert anyone.  Go look around and find out for yourself.  People called Jesus crazy too.

  13. This is Melanie again.  When I saw Jesus in my dream he was young and very good looking. He was of medium weight, not thin. He was the best looking man that I have ever seen.  He looked at me with affection.  But I believe that was only symbolic. He said nothing in the dream. He didn’t say that he was Jesus either.  I know it was him because he lead me to a place where his name was written on the ground in real life.  There is much more, much more. It was in real life that he talked to me. But you can’t hear him or see him in real life.  I can’t explain it all here, not enough time.

  14. Thank you for the feed back. If someone else said that God talked to them, I would think the same thing all of you have just said.  I would think that they are nuts too.  How would I know who killed JFK?  I would guess that Jesus knows.

  15. You don’t know who killed JFK, Melanie, you just think you do.

    Jesus isn’t real, God isn’t real, anre your dreams are just that, dreams.

    You wrote a book about your dream? Show it to a shrink, maybe you’ll get the help you obviously need.

  16. Hi, Patrick, You think I am crazy cause Jesus never talked to you.  My question is: “Why isn’t Jesus talking to YOU”?

  17. Hi, Les.  Your right I don’t have a firm grasp on reality.  What would you think it is like having the unreal(spirit world) communicating with you? It was very difficult. I think about Jesus every day. I think about how he died for us.  I think about how much he loves us.  I emailed Church people first looking for help and or answers. Some of them were flat out wrong in their teachings.  They know less than I do and I don’t go to church. If you want to take that attitude toward Jesus you may have a big surpise when you leave this place.  You never know when the reaper comes and when he does come it will be a surprise.  Jesus told me that.  Believe it or not.

  18. Melanie writes..

    Your right I don’t have a firm grasp on reality.

    That says it all right there. Still there’s hope for you as the first step in overcoming a problem is recognizing that you have one.

    I suppose if you’re happy in your delusion then you can keep it so long as Jesus doesn’t start telling you to kill your kids or anyone else for that matter. As long as you’re a harmless nut then so be it, but if you start trying to hurt people then I’m afraid they’ll have to lock you up.

  19. Know what when you say mean things. Why should I give you proof.  If you say hateful things to God.  Why should he talk to you or help you.  When you are sick, in danger and alone, is there anyone there to help you? One day we all die. What then?  What happens? You don’t seem to have an answer.  Do you understand how complicated life is? That is why scientists have taken an interest in intelligent design.  That is why you found me there.  God is the greatest scientist ever.  He created you.  I think that is huge. If you don’t have time for God I would think he is to busy for you too.

  20. Bye, Les, as this site reads, Stupid Evil Bastard and then there is a picture of you. Smile. You can write all the means things you want.  WE all have to atone for the things that we do on earth.
    Smile.  God has more giga bites of memory than Bill Gates.  And there are 6 billion Chinese people and he knows each and everyone of them. On top of that he knows what each and everyone of them think and their works.  That is a lot of memory.  That is mega giga giga giga…… bites.
    Smile,  I didn’t make that up.

  21. Melanie comes back to babble some more…

    Know what when you say mean things. Why should I give you proof.  If you say hateful things to God.  Why should he talk to you or help you.  When you are sick, in danger and alone, is there anyone there to help you?

    I didn’t say anything mean that’s just the way you decided to interpret it. I had no malice in mind when I typed those words and I was being completely sincere. I think you have a real problem and I think you need to seek help for it, but I also realize you probably won’t because you mistakenly think it’s a good thing.

    As for proof, I seriously doubt you have anything to offer. Nothing beyond your claims and certainly no reason why I should accept your claims as reality.

    I’m not worried about God speaking to me because I don’t believe God exists to speak to anyone. I’ve yet to see any evidence first hand that would suggest the existence of a God and nothing you have provided thus far gives me any reason to change that opinion.

    One day we all die. What then?  What happens? You don’t seem to have an answer.

    How would you know? You haven’t bothered to find out if I have an answer. For the record: When we die we, as a conscious entity, cease to exist. There is no afterlife. There is no heaven or hell. There is not eternity spent in some “other place” either basking in the brilliance of some divine being or subject to endless torture by some hellish fiend. Death is oblivion except for the memories in the minds of those we leave behind.

    Do you understand how complicated life is? That is why scientists have taken an interest in intelligent design.

    I understand quite well how complicated life is and there are very few legitimate scientists who have taken an interest in Intelligent Design.

    That is why you found me there.  God is the greatest scientist ever.  He created you.  I think that is huge. If you don’t have time for God I would think he is to busy for you too.

    God doesn’t exist. He’s a figment of your delusional imagination. He’s a fiction. A cosmic bogyman invented by man to control his fellows and explain away the scary unknown. He didn’t create man, man created him. He shares all the same flaws and failings as any human.

    Bye, Les, as this site reads, Stupid Evil Bastard and then there is a picture of you. Smile. You can write all the means things you want.

    The joke’s on you and you don’t even know it. But I’m not sad to think you won’t be back.

    WE all have to atone for the things that we do on earth.

    Only to our fellow humans, and even then some people manage never to have to atone for their wrongs. The universe doesn’t care if justice wins the day. That’s a human construct and nothing more.

    Smile.  God has more giga bites of memory than Bill Gates.  And there are 6 billion Chinese people and he knows each and everyone of them. On top of that he knows what each and everyone of them think and their works.  That is a lot of memory.  That is mega giga giga giga…… bites.
    Smile,  I didn’t make that up.

    Nope, lots of other people came up with that same silly nonsense long before you did. Go play with your invisible friend and try not to hurt anyone.

  22. Oh my:

    Les: I’m not worried about God speaking to me because I don’t believe God exists to speak to anyone.

    Now that’s just crazy talk, right there. LOL

    Les, the next obvious question, “Have you sold your soul for a DVD yet?”

    Melanie: And there are 6 billion Chinese people and …

    Now Melanie, you don’t have to play the “must be billions and billions of Chinese” card against Les’ mean logicmon.  The important thing to remember is you don’t have to rely on facts or logic or or rationality or intelligence or even a completely intact central nervous system to justify your faith.  Faith like yours is its own justification.  You already seem to be at least half way toward accepting that – so just let go. 

    As for the rest of us, we’ll keep our feet on the ground and our brains in the on position.

    Anyone know where I can get a cheap videocam?

  23. Melanie: And there are 6 billion Chinese people and he knows each and everyone of them. On top of that he knows what each and everyone of them think and their works.

    Sorry, Melanie, you’re wrong on this too. The world’s population is 6 billion. China’s population is approximately 1.26 billion.

    God doesn’t do China{ They have a different Sheriff.

  24. Your right I don’t have a firm grasp on reality.

    Well at least you know. Now, the next step is to go to good psychiatrist to get you on meds that can fix your schizophrenia or at least put you under supervised care where you’re no danger to the rest of the world once Jesus escalates past telling you about murders that happened decades ago and progresses to telling you that you need to hack apart Les to get into the Holy Kingdom or something.

    And there are 6 billion Chinese people and he knows each and everyone of them.

    Not to argue what is an obvious miseducation on your part, but if God knows six billion Chinamen he can’t do math.

  25. Melanie – I will tell you from the start I am not attacking you, I am patient and am trying to help by thinking about the issues raised.

    Don’t give up on us, because I won’t give up on you

    You do seem to need some ass-kicking though to learn the ways of this blog and for your own benefit, to give you food for thought. I won’t intervene, it’s up to you to earn peace with us. Call it tough love.

    My question is: “Why isn’t Jesus talking to YOU”?

    If the god hypothesis is correct, then we must conclude that we are made to forget about many aspects of afterlife. If we did all know about it and take it for fact we wouldn’t think in the same way and so wouldn’t have the oppertunity to explore the concepts leading up to it, much like being told a law of science doesn’t motivate you to question it unless you’re not satisfied with it as complete – there are two types of scientist – those with phonomenal rote memory who can apply rules that they don’t want to explore, and those who were forced to explore and understand the subject on a deep level by limited memory – this is partly why the best scientists are absent minded.

    It could be that the purpose of life is to get away from knowing the end result and getting away from a hypothetical god’s love for the time and space to think.

    What happens? You don’t seem to have an answer

    We long for the answer, partly for our own peace of mind, we’re just not satisfied with what we’ve heard so far. We’re not at peace with just accepting a partial theory, and that also means we don’t accept blind faith, this is what motivates us to thought.

    Do you understand how complicated life is? That is why scientists have taken an interest in intelligent design

    Scientists that do take an interest in intelligent design are not exploring the complexities, they are trying to find reason behind the simple and seemingly arbitery rules of science which don’t justify themselves, questions like “why does time go forward?”, “why did the big bang happen?”, “why are forces as strong as they are?”, “why do positive and negative charges attract?”, “why are physical constants constant?”, “why do positive and negative charges attract?”, “why does quantisation apply?”, “would the uncertainty principle be open to manipulation by a possible god?”, etc.

    What these scientists know is that a god theory must be linked to the laws of science in the physical world, in order to interact – otherwise we couldn’t physically move, couldn’t enter or leave the body/physical universe either side of life, and god couldn’t have instigated the big bang or other form of creation

    If you don’t have time for God I would think he is to busy for you too

    You don’t give god enough credit. When you have love for people you have patience, and a loving god wouldn’t give up on anyone or write them off.

    That is a lot of memory.  That is mega giga giga giga…… bites.

    What stores it? A computer or other memory thing would have to exist in another dimension. You have to ask why it would.

    God is the greatest scientist ever.  He created you.  I think that is huge.

    Existence is not necessarily a good thing, it’s an instinct to like it that makes people afraid of the idea of oblivion. In permanent oblivion you have no commitment to conciousness or self sustenance, it’s the only time when you really do rest, because it’s the only time when there are no rules or expectations. I have to wonder that if a god did want us to move in a positive direction why that would be so, and why should positive necessarily be associated with good.

    Your right I don’t have a firm grasp on reality

    I actually said exactly that at work today, I live more in my imagination than anywhere, it’s where I can experiment with events that havn’t happened. Not feeling physically in touch with the world (as I do early in the morning) is the kind of feeling that can get you run over, so be careful and keep a check as to where you ‘float’.
    Don’t attack Melanie just because she opened a door that can be exploited for attack

  26. Melanie – I will tell you from the start I am not attacking you, I am patient and am trying to help by thinking about the issues raised.

    Don’t give up on us, because I won’t give up on you

    Please don’t encourage her. Most of the loonies that show up in the comments here won’t go away on their own volition. She may be crazy, but at least Melanie recognizes when she’s in over her head.

  27. OK, if anyone would ever like to speak with me outside of SEB, feel free to email me:

    mca24@sussex.ac.uk

    That way we can keep this stuff from anoying people whilst I can deal with them in a controlled setting.
    I’m free and confidential, and more than willing to help anyone. Some things may be out of my depth though so don’t make high expectations.

    I just get the feeling that very gradually we can get through to these people through persistent reasoning, Aaron and ‘frank the tank’ kept a negative stance but their comments gradually withdrew from certain aspects of arguement until they stopped commenting; I would like to think this was so they could think about the issue, because they realised they couldn’t win that kind of debate in a reasoned playground like this, where we are immune to drive-bys. I hope they leave different people than they came.

    In Aaron’s case he may have left disillusioned- I know I deliberately ticked him off, but he needed radical thought on a deep level, I was trying to showing the trust I had by opening up and to push him, perhaps too hard in the end. Hopefully he’ll re-read the thread at a later date when it’s had time to sink in, to not be able to argue back with something that goes deeply against your principles is a shock to the system. It could take years until he’s ready to come back, depending on when he will allow himself to think about it and how it ties into his situation. He may die first.

  28. I applaud your patience, DC.  But even the most saintly of us (which is to say, Les) wear thin eventually.  Just try not to be bitter when that happens   wink

  29. Thanks DOF,
    I can only blame myself – and when it happens I will take a holiday from here for a bit to avoid hurting anyone. In some ways I might be doing it because I need it to happen.

  30. I have wrestled with that, as there have been well-meaning whacko visitors who were (I realized only after fisking them) quite vulnerable.  But I keep commenting anyway, it’s a learning curve and this forum has been incredibly helpful on it.

    And there are some people with whom there’s no need to be gentle, or who are just begging for it…

  31. It’s a generic observation (that I’ve noticed applies to me over time) but it seems to me that people will unknowingly do the things that benefit their personality in the long run – their conscious perception of reality and what will happen gets warped so that they will make other concious decisions that essentially throw themselves into the teeth of exactly what they fear, an example would be the well intentioned theists trying to save us from hell who realise it’s not clear cut, or the asshats who, as you said, are begging for the experiences that will stop them from being asshats. In my case it’s de-clouded illusions in my perception, a few years ago I acted like an asshat only because I was unaware of the effects I was having.

  32. What Les said.

    (DC) I just get the feeling that very gradually we can get through to these people through persistent reasoning

    This is known as the rationalistic fallacy. And don’t forget the classic Heinlein quote:

    Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

  33. My method won’t work if you give up before completion, and demands you to be completely emotionally detatched to always stay within reason – using the quote, as soon as the person teaching the ‘pig’ gets annoyed, the pig will flat out reject any ideas they were taught because they have an excuse to put all the blame for the pain of thought on the teacher. However although everyone may have their limits as to how persistent and reasoned they can be, I only need to extend my limits to what’s necessary to complete the transition for the given person.

    My thoughts on this come from changes to myself as an example – I personally have very much changed in the last few years by thinking on people’s reasoning because pressures in life forced me to adapt because I had reached my capacity for conflict. Capacity to think on an issue varies, but some engagement with the issue is uavoidable for everyone, because they also have a limit as to how much pressure they can withstand from people in everyday life from not developing on it, such as conflict. – beyond a point the pain of thinking is less worse than the pain of conflict when someone’s broken down – this is where ass-kicking can prep someone and help them reach their conflict limit quicker, making them think, but it must come from people who aren’t trying to teach reason in order for the person teaching to maintain the link to the ‘pig’.

    Once the ‘pig’ starts to listen, it gets easier and easier, it’s just starting it off that’s difficult. People wouldn’t open more to thought over time if there wasn’t a capacity to do so

  34. Reason only works on the reasonable. The pig never really starts to listen. That’s just anthropromorfication (and I’m not looking up the spelling for that) on your part.

    Still, if you enjoy beating your head against a brick wall, knock yourself out…..

  35. My thinking, DC, is while your efforts are commendable, I’m rather surprised that you can’t find other things to do – or that you hold helping the unreasoning at a higher value than a great many other things.

    I’ve been known to argue during term reviews, so I’m known for it too.

    But in general, anyone who wants to learn can start by using Google and second that by listening intently where they go. A drive-by criticism is curt, brash, and typically inconsiderate of the issue at hand. Such a commenter is very unlikely to have wanted to learn, and either was lacking in the desire or patience to learn. Hence, trying to reason with those commenters seems more an exercise in my patience than that of the commenter.

    While you are, IMO, correct in suggesting that it’s a matter of economy (better conflict resolution), you have to realize that almost all conflict can be resolved through ignorance. The only conflicts that can’t are those that seem to threaten harm as a consequence of ignorance – which is, itself, mediated by the degree of ignorance in play. Frankly, I don’t find people to be more open to thought over time – just more apathetic and less concerned with conflict in general. If that’s the case, how can conflict drive a capacity for learning?

    Just my perspective, mind…

  36. Sorry DC, but I think you’ve failed to figure Melanie out. She’s just looking for positive attention without having to earn it. When the Creator of the Universe has chosen to confide in you, that’s worth all the positive attention you could ever desire from others.

    She craves being noticed and thought highly of and she can’t imagine that not every site would value her accomplishment. SEB readers would notice her but likely would not think highly of her just for that. Still, she has a firm belief that what she says she experienced is worthy of praise and envy. SEB is just an anomaly to her.

    Encourage her if you must but you’re playing her game.

  37. I’m actually surprised that DOF would refer to me as being the “most saintly” as that’s the last description I’d guess someone would view me as.

    Pain in the ass seems more likely. grin

  38. And what KPG said.

    DC, it’s your prerogative to waste your time counseling drive-by posters (the ones Les called loonies), but you also have to understand that encouraging them to come back for more is not universally appreciated.

  39. I need to think about this

    Patness: or that you hold helping the unreasoning at a higher value than a great many other things

    This is because I don’t want to see people hurt by the unreasonable, they affect everyone close to them, and that can have secondary effects. Whilst we at SEB can blank them, their relatives and work colleages can’t, and I really don’t want to see anyone hurt on a deep level, especially if I feel like I might be able to do something about it.

    Patness: you have to realize that almost all conflict can be resolved through ignorance. The only conflicts that can’t are those that seem to threaten harm as a consequence of ignorance

    Ignorance does protect the person who is ignorant from conflict, making them more tenatous, and it also does harm others, it is this that I want to minimise, kind of preventative rather than reactive

    Sorry DC, but I think you’ve failed to figure Melanie out

    Brock is probably right, to use different words and generalise, I’m not a good judge of character, I can only try. I don’t like to think of people in that kind of light, it may be true, but I hoped to see the ass-kicking purging that kind of thing, because a good ass-kicking to me a couple of years back broke me down and made me rebuild. I am seeing only what I want to, but that illusion has made life easier and helped me get on with people, because transgressions don’t even register and don’t make me feel like a victim – Illusion cannot be a bad tool if it protects without harm to anyone, like if everyone forgot about unhappiness

    Brock: Encourage her if you must but you’re playing her game

    I would not be giving everything she wants – she would not get concencus from me and I would pick apart unreasoned comments until she realised they are not changing anyone’s mind

    elwed: but you also have to understand that encouraging them to come back for more is not universally appreciated

    I understand that, I need to think of a way of doing what I’m trying to do with minimal fallout, maybe try to turn a troll. It’s a different level of debate essentially.

  40. You never know, DC, maybe you’ll succeed, and if nothing else there is personal value in the attempt.  Sometimes I wonder if I’ve every convinced anyone of anything but what would I think of myself if I’d never made the effort?  I’d just be a leaf, floating downstream.  Once in a while you have to tilt at windmills.

  41. Les: I’m actually surprised that DOF would refer to me as being the “most saintly” as that’s the last description I’d guess someone would view me as.

    Since we know human memory is constructive, maybe he’s re-building something that’s more prophet-like from your wolfman header from Halloween

    Elwed: but you also have to understand that encouraging them to come back for more is not universally appreciated.

    You’re probably right about that as a generalization, although I suspect that I’m not the only one that occasionally likes to read and respond to some of the loonies.  I like to think of myself as having patience, but I also think DC has me beat by orders of magnitude in that department.  I accept the trollishness of trolls, and don’t really try to turn them away from the dark side, so to speak.  I like to point out where their logic fails them, and invite them to embrace their own inner troll.

    DOF: Once in a while you have to tilt at windmills.

    Agreed, although there is that camp that claims the saying, “It doesn’t matter whether you win or lose, but how you play the game,” was written by a loser.  You’re right that you have to pick your battles, and that you might occasionally wind up selecting one that looks like a lost cause. 

    I think DOF, Elwed, KPG, Patness, Brock, and Les are on the right track though when they argue about the limited power of rationality when attempting to engage a true believer on something that pushes them outside their comfort zone.  If you’re going to keep at this noble task, DC, might I suggest that you hunt for a more apropos avatar?

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