Islam is the “religion of peace and love”… eh… not so much.

Seems Muslims around the world have their panties all in a twist over some political cartoons one of which had a caricature of the prophet Muhammad wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse. Say what you will about Christian Fundamentalists, at least they don’t threaten to kidnap and kill people simply because someone printed a cartoon they didn’t like. Sure, they like to talk like they would love nothing more than to hunt you down and burn you at the stake, but they almost never actually try to realize such desires despite how angry they get unlike some Muslims out there:

Foreign journalists, diplomats and aid workers began leaving Gaza as gunmen there threatened to kidnap citizens of France, Norway, Denmark and Germany unless those governments apologize for the cartoon.

Gunmen in the West Bank city of Nablus entered four hotels to search for foreigners to abduct and warned their owners not to host guests from several European countries. Gunmen said they were also searching apartments in Nablus for Europeans.

Militants in Gaza said they would shut down media offices from France, Norway, Denmark and Germany, singling out the French news agency Agence France-Presse.

“Any citizens of these countries, who are present in Gaza, will put themselves in danger,” a Fatah-affiliated gunman said outside the EU Commission’s office in Gaza, flanked by two masked men holding rifles.

If the European governments don’t apologize by Thursday evening, “any visitor of these countries will be targeted,” he said.

Worst thing most Christians will do is pray that you burn in Hell or that God strikes you down in some horrible fashion such as giving you ass cancer. All this gnashing of teeth by Muslims around the world sure does put the lie to the claim that most Muslims are peaceful and don’t condone the actions of the radical militants. Hell, no less than Condoleezza Rice has said that Islam is a religion of peace and love, yeah, my ass it is.

Thursday’s events began when a dozen gunmen with ties to Fatah approached the office of the EU Commission in Gaza. Three jumped on the outer wall and the rest took up positions at the entrance. The group demanded the apologies and urged Palestinians to boycott the products of Norway, Denmark, France and Germany.

A leaflet signed by a Fatah militia and the militant Islamic Jihad group said the EU office and churches in Gaza could come under attack and urged French citizens to leave Gaza. The gunmen left after about 45 minutes. Palestinian employees of the EU Commission had not come to work Thursday, and foreigners working at the office are based outside Gaza, and only visit from time to time.

In Multan, Pakistan, more than 300 Islamic students chanted “Death to Denmark!” and “Death to France!” and burned flags of both countries near an Islamic school.

Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Yuri Thamrin said that while his country upholds free expression, “such freedom cannot be used as a pretext to insult a religion.”

Sounds like the Mr. Thamrin has a lot to learn about the meaning of the words “Free Expression.” Now word comes that two of the Muslim world’s main political bodies are seeking a U.N. resolution banning attacks on religious beliefs:

The deputy secretary-general of the Arab League, Ahmed Ben Helli, confirmed that contacts were under way for such a proposal to be made to the UN.

“Consultations are currently taking place at the highest level between Arab countries and the OIC to ask the UN to adopt a binding resolution banning contempt of religious beliefs and providing for sanctions to be imposed on contravening countries or institutions,” he said.

I’ve always wondered what it would be like to violate a U.N. Resolution and now I just might find out. I have just as much contempt for Islam as I do for Christianity and this hissy-fit on the part of Muslims has only increased that contempt several fold. Grow the fuck up and stop beliving in children’s fantasies or at least have the maturity to accept that not everyone is going to agree with you and may even mock you for your ridiculous beliefs. You don’t have to like it and you can bitch about it if you really want to, but actually harming folks over it isn’t going to convince anyone to respect you or your beliefs and may end up bring you more trouble in the long run.

Links found via Decrepit Old Fool and Dispatches from the Culture Wars.

92 thoughts on “Islam is the “religion of peace and love”… eh… not so much.

  1. I was looking to see if anyone other than you posted/started topics of discussion after reading this same piece earlier.

    All I can say is we are flaming morons.. these
    bozo brains (see..nice to Dwarfs !) go out and kill people and threaten others over a stupid cartoon in a paper which has harmed nothing more than some silly terrorist egos.. yet the rest of the non islamic world sits around and does nothing when these peace loving islamic terrorists trot out indivudals they have taken as prisoners and play “slice and dice” with their heads on Islamic network TV, broadcast via satellite around most of the world…

    I’m with Major Hunt, the Military Guru of Foxnews… BOMB the BASTARDS and show them how the game is really played until they get the idea we won’t tolerate it anymore !

    The media is about as low themselves.. they pander to all this to be the first with the story.. if no one covered these dimbulbs there
    would be no reason for their hissy-fits and killing.

  2. Worst thing most Christians will do is pray that you burn in Hell or that God strikes you down in some horrible fashion such as giving you ass cancer

    Does that include Bush, and his 160 000 killers.

    He burned 6000 Iraqies in 2 weeks in Faluga backed by his christian beliefs.

  3. I’m with Major Hunt, the Military Guru of Foxnews… BOMB the BASTARDS and show them how the game is really played until they get the idea we won’t tolerate it anymore !

    Do you mean they are not doing that?

  4. I used to know a Muslim guy who would claim that Islam was a religion of peace. Its history (and present) seems to contradict such a claim, however.

    Worst thing most Christians will do is pray that you burn in Hell or that God strikes you down in some horrible fashion such as giving you ass cancer

    I’m going to back Alphamale here (though I do not think that Bush’s nonetheless idiotic Iraq war was carried out strictly for “Christian” reasons). Not only are so-called Christians currently assaulting our Constitution and trying to mold our country into one that would reflect only their absurd, antiquated agenda, but they have demonstrated on more than one occasion that they will resort to violence when they do not get their way. Bombings of doctors’ clinics, gay bars, and assassination attempts on Supreme Court Justices who do not share their views (i.e. the late Justice Henry Blackmun) spring to mind. It may be that Christian terrorism is more of a rarity than Islamic terrorism (though I personally would argue that this has less to do with fundamental differences between the two religions and more to do with the fact that Christian terrorists have less of an opportunity to implement their destructive plans due to the security/governmental differences between this country and, say, a predominantly Muslim one), but I don’t think the violent tendencies of Christian fundamentalists should be underscored. I know that, for the most part, I’m preaching to the choir here, but I feel that this needs to be said anyway.

  5. I’m with Major Hunt, the Military Guru of Foxnews… BOMB the BASTARDS and show them how the game is really played until they get the idea we won’t tolerate it anymore !
    Do you mean they are not doing that?

    Apparently not enough for it to sink into their heads and for them to get the message.

    I used to know a Muslim guy who would claim that Islam was a religion of peace. Its history (and present) seems to contradict such a claim, however.

    Worst thing most Christians will do is pray that you burn in Hell or that God strikes you down in some horrible fashion such as giving you ass cancer

    Well I don’t think the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition or the Salem Witch Trials, all done in the name of Christians were tea parties with cake and door prizes !  So the blame should be divided equally to all the religious fanatics.. part of what I find distasteful about organized religion and the need to believe what I do on my own.

  6. Excuse my French, but this has gone way too fucking far—not only the whole “Islam is peaceful yet Muhammed says to kill all infidels and those who don’t agree with us” hypocrisy, but the Dhimmi dimwits who sit there and appease them! I commented about the row the Danish cartoons caused in my blog maybe a month ago, but this is merely one more example of how Europe (and the USA, to a lesser extent) has been getting more and more extreme in this PC ideal that everyone has a right to not be offended.

    In October, a British Banking instutiona voluntarily stopped circulating piggy banks so as to not offend Muslims.  http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Piggy-banks-offend-UK-Muslims/2005/10/24/1130006056771.html

    The British parliament is current deciding the fate of religious hate bill, which many critics argue would criminalize any criticism towards religious beliefs.  Right now it doens’t look like it’ll pass, but damn is it scary to think that a Brit could get a criminal record for saying “there’s no conclusive proof that Jesus ever existed”, or “Islam encourages the oppression of women and preaches intolerance and violence towards non-Muslims”, all of which would be factually true.  It’s already illegal to publically deny the Holocaust there.

    As I said, it’s the appeasing idiots who actually help make all of this possible.  One that stands out in particular is some idiot in either Norway or Sweden, who believed that Scandinavian girls were responsible for their own rapes. It was in an article about the rape epidemic in Scandinavia perpetuated mostly by young Muslim men, who admit their faith dictates that they look down upon non-Muslim women.  I unfortunately don’t have the link handy, though. Her reasoning was that as a multicultural society, Scandinavian girls must understand that Western clothing entices Islamic men.  What kind of fucked up logic do you have to use to tell a rape victim that she’s at fault for wearing the normal clothes of her own country, because it offends the sensibilities of a foreigner (or child of a foreigner)?

    [/rant]

  7. This whole thing sort of makes the Salman Rushdie death fatwa look kinda quaint and innocent.

  8. How’s Rushdie doing these days?  Did they ever get that Fatwa lifted?

    I don’t know the Koran – certainly it has some violent passages in it.  I do know the bible reasonably well and it also has bloodthirsty spots.

    Each side should really give it the ol’ second thoughts before going medieval on the others’ asses.  Cruise missiles or IED’s – we are going to have to at least take ancient hatreds out of the modern equation and see about defusing the ones that are left.  Our weapons and the problems of the world today are too big to do otherwise.

  9. I completely agree with Les here.  If it were Christians complaining about a cartoon featuring Jesus, I’d be just as disgusted.  Freedom of the press is freedom of the press, even if you don’t agree.  Besides that, who’s forcing them to look?  I don’t like Bill O’Reilly, so I don’t watch him
    And besides that, even if you accept Islam as true, how much do you think Allah and Mohammed care about a cartoon?  I’m pretty sure they’re busy doing something else.

  10. There are times I wish I was Danish not Swedish
    descent, but I can always claim to be a born/bred
    American and that usually is enough to piss off the visiting relatives from scandahoovian land
    when they migrate here to mooch off everyone once every so many years…they call it their “Holiday”… its usually because they wonderful ultra liberal socialized medicine is such a scam when they have waited long enough and still not gotten their free treatment they get cut rate fares here and hit the mega city Medical Centers for what they need and of course mooch off the few relative they have living here..  I heard one of my aunts once comment about the rape thing and its a good thing her english and my swedish both suck.. or they’d never talk to me again.  It is their type of mentality that does cause this whole mess to keep festering, along with the other countries that do the same stupid shit… like the Frenchies..

  11. By the way the day I have peeld my relegious believs I wake up with no hate for any creature and when you finding your self using terms of hate look inside you for residulas of such self propelled intities called relegions, they got to be there.

    I’m going to back Alphamale here (though I do not think that Bush’s nonetheless idiotic Iraq war was carried out strictly for “Christian

  12. All faiths are attacked in this way,the Muslims do it to Jews.
    Jews are often a target

    cartoon round up

    The belgians even gave an arts grant to a muslim ‘artist’ check out the poster.
    link
    This is not about offense IMO it’s Islam mobilising their footsoldiers of dissent.
    Raising the stakes.

    If muslim terrorists invoke their religion while involved in political actions ie bombings then it’s hardly suprising if their religion is thrown back at them by those who oppose them.

    Blowing up the symbols of another religion/philosophy ie the Bhuddas did them no favours and won them few friends.
    It’s all well and good the Muslim clergy radicalising for their own ends but they need to understand that it cuts both ways many will be even less tolerant towards them.

  13. Goddamn. Get the fuck over it. Its a fucking cartoon, its not an unspeakable act like, I dunno lopping off a journalist’s head and video-taping it, so there’s no reason to get upset about it and go running about killing Europeans indiscriminately. By the way, don’t drag Bush or the goddamn war into this because that’s not what its about.

  14. Organised religion would appear to be a symptom of male insecurity, at least in the case of islam and christianity. I always found it amusing that they tell us how awe inspiring and powerful their gods are, and then go around killing people in his name as if he is too weak to do it himself.

    Makes me think of santa claus with the parents sneaking in with the presents when you are asleep, ‘See the presents arrived? Santa exists!’ Or alternatively, ‘See the mangled corpses? This proves Allah/JHWH exists and is all powerful!’ Alternatively it proves some people are very desperate and insecure in their belief.

  15. Learn to close your fugging tags guys.  It’s not nice to break SEB.

    It shouldn’t carry over however.

    How’s Rushdie doing these days?  Did they ever get that Fatwa lifted?

    As far as I know, its sorta ‘resting’. Not officially lifted though, AFAIK. Rushdie is apparently moving about quite freely, and without any (known) bodyguards anymore.

    As for the whole continuing saga, we know have Uno secretary Annan saying (well his press spokesman said it) that press freedom should always be used in a way respectful of religion. Whatever that means. So is it still okay if I want to ridicule a religion on a private website?

  16. I fixed the tag. No big deal. It’s more a sign of my poor design skills that I haven’t worked out a way to limit such bloopers to the containing DIV.

  17. Speaking of blastphemy… my older daugther send me a link to a religious Parody site (taken from the school fiasco’s etc) called

    The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

    http://www.venganza.org/

    It is amusing – not really interactive discussion like here but the guy has a good talent for taking the ridiculous of that genre beyond that and poking fun.. 

    My favorite was the parody on the Jesus Fish people have on the back of their vehicles.. I could not resist and I seldom if ever put anything on mine.  I had to get the T-Rex eating the Jesus fish since it appealed to my onging argument with the fundamentals over creation vs evolution.  He’s quite happy on the back of my truck right now for all to see.

    My daughter said she used one of their quotes as her signature line (“I’ve found Jesus, he’s been hiding behind my couch all this time”) for her emails and caught a lot of shit from one of her work/email friends that happends to be an “internet ordained minister” for one of these born-again cult like groups.. daughter being quite clever turned the rant right back around to her citing its inner meaning was that God (Jesus) is everywhere in one’s life…. of course her real reason for using it was the same thing you all have probably chuckled about when you read it.

  18. The FSM has touched many of us here with his noodly appendage. You’ll see him spring up from time to time throughout the comments. GeekMom is a devotee of his as I recall.

  19. Even as an Agnostic Fundermentalist I don’t go out of my way to not give a flying fuck what any of these religous cults belive is right or wrong.
    In my perception these religions were conceived ,pre-written law mostly, to give the society in which they were concieved some structure by which to live and operate. Most of which have apparently not adapted to progress and the conflict that contact with outside cultures has brought upon them.
    Christians, Jews & Muslims, please just get over your differences , grow up with the modern world around you. Different people have different views .
    & us non believers are finding it all a little tiresome.
    That said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it’s just that mine is better.

  20. Christopher Hitchens says it very well:

    “Islam makes very large claims for itself. In its art, there is a prejudice against representing the human form at all. The prohibition on picturing the prophet—who was only another male mammal—is apparently absolute. So is the prohibition on pork or alcohol or, in some Muslim societies, music or dancing. Very well then, let a good Muslim abstain rigorously from all these. But if he claims the right to make me abstain as well, he offers the clearest possible warning and proof of an aggressive intent. This current uneasy coexistence is only an interlude, he seems to say. For the moment, all I can do is claim to possess absolute truth and demand absolute immunity from criticism. But in the future, you will do what I say and you will do it on pain of death.”
    – Christopher Hitchens on Slate – The case for mocking religion

    Your religion restricts you from certain things?  Fine – don’t do those things.  Don’t expect me to tiptoe around for you.  (I found the Slate link on Respectful Insolence)

    ***Dave also has a really good 8-point analysis of the issue; Open Letter.  He rips ‘em several richly-deserved new ones.

  21. Corrections and Clarifications…
    The recently defeated UK law was to stop incitement to religeous hatred, not to stop comments on religeon. The general aim was to give minorities who were mainly identified by their religeon the same rights as racial groups.  The example usually given was that of Jews, who are protected under racial laws, where as Muslims are not.  It is therefore differeent to say ‘Kill all Jews’, to ‘Kill all Muslims’.  The counter arguement was that courts apply the law, not the spirit of the law. Also incitement is already a crime (‘Go out and kill…’).  Crimes committed for racial means in UK are however treated far more strictly, and have harsher penalties.  The difference with religeon is of course that is a choice (a nonsensical one, but still a choice).  Debating racial origin is on the other hand pointless (‘You’re so right I shouldnt be black/white/asian/oriental etc, I will convert to …’)

    Also before claiming that Islam is a religeon of hate, does anybody actually know what the Koran actually says (I don’t).  Richard Dawkins (yes that one) recently said Jesus was okay, and he agreed with his message of peace.  This message does not square with the old testament message of ‘Kill All Non-Israelites’ that is a repeated message in many parts of the Old Testament.  Christianity still has it’s past of shame- Crusades, inquistions, forced conversions, the sizable minority of US Fundies who think that the Middle East should be forceably converted.

    Islam just seems to be at the same stage Christianity was at the same age.

  22. Christopher Hitchens says it very well:

    Hitchens is wrong in his opening. This quote on Islamic tradition is from a current events article on Wikipedia.

    The Qur’an, the Islamic holy book, does not explicitly prohibit the depiction of human figures; it merely condemns idolatry (verses 41 and 52). Direct prohibitions of pictorial art, or any depiction of sacred figures, are found in some hadith, or recorded oral traditions. Muslims differ as to which hadith are to be accepted and which disregarded.

    Views regarding pictorial representation within the Muslim community have varied from group to group, and from time to time. Shi’a Muslims have been generally tolerant of pictorial representation of human figures, Sunni Muslims less so. However, the Sunni Ottomans, the last dynasty to claim the caliphate, were not only tolerant but even patrons of the miniaturists’ art. Many Ottoman miniatures depict Muhammad; they usually show Muhammad’s face covered with a veil or as a featureless void emanating light (depicted as flames). Pictorial surveys of Islamic religious art can be found on the internet. [Three links deleted] Note that the last site also contains some extremely and intentionally offensive modern depictions of Muhammad.

    Most contemporary Muslims believe that ordinary portraits and photos, films and illustrations, are permissible. Only some Salafi and Islamist interpretations of Sunni Islam still condemn pictorial representations of any kind. Offensive satirical pictures are a somewhat different case — disrespect to Islam or to Muhammad is still widely considered blasphemous or sacrilegious.

    This page from the Metropolitan Museum of art is one of several that shows representations of the human form. There is a long tradition of doing so.

    ***Dave nailed it.

    LastHussar, you got in before me. I hope my link helps.

  23. All MUslims are FUCKED UP PSYCHOTIC FREAKS…….the recent events which stemmed from the Danish cartoons have made me lose any shred of respect I had for these peoples. I dont think that they can even be called people. Normal sane people do not behave in such a way. All they know is violence and nothing else. They react to everything with violence. They have no concept of acting rationally and peacefully. They do not value human life… they use any opportunity to kill as many as they can. These people are so psychotic and crazy they will eventually succeed in destroying themselves… hopefully before they over populate the western world….

  24. All MUslims are FUCKED UP PSYCHOTIC FREAKS…….

    No they aren’t, I have a good friend who is muslim, she has never expressed an urge to go and kill anyone who doesn’t believe in islam. So there’s at least one who doesn’t fit your description.

    I wasn’t going to reply to this comment, but it does highlight the dangerous attitude on both sides. Namely laying the blame for the actions of a few at the doorsteps of many, as with the above poster, and the muslim extremists who threatened to harm all europeans because the actions of a few.

  25. All MUslims are FUCKED UP PSYCHOTIC FREAKS

    As my American supervisor used to say
    Extremists deserve each other. For those who have sutch posts, I say you are no different than those Muslims. Your governments are doing the revenge for you. Just don’t hurt your self over this.

  26. MH, anytime you say; “All ‘X’ people are ‘Y’” you sound like an idiot.  I am concerned that many moderate Muslums fail to condemn violence, however.  Just as many Christians cheer the death of every Muslim.

    We’ll never work this all out until the violence stops.  Stop the violence, everyone, and then we can talk.  You know, like grown-ups, instead of like chimpanzees with cruise missiles and IEDs.

    LH asks; “before claiming that Islam is a religeon of hate, does anybody actually know what the Koran actually says (I don’t)”

    It doesn’t really matter what the Koran says any more than it matters what the Bible says.  What matters is what the bulk of that religion’s followers do.  Religions seem to orbit around their source documents but are hardly defined by them.

  27. I wonder how much the media is to blame for peoples reactions to this. It seems that they are so good at only portraying the negative reactions of the extremeists, they fail to report the whole story. As such, you never see those Muslisms who have protested the terrorists or the extremists reactions to said comics.

    As another thought, I wonder what reaction we could expect from people like Fred Phelps, if the western media portrayed Jesus as a child molestor (in light of all the recent Priests and pastors who have been blamed for said acts). In reality, something like that would never even make it to a paper, satirical or not.

    Please don’t take this as me being an appologist for the acts of those extremists who have taken this thing to far. As far as I can tell, the only thing they have reinforced is the depictions of Muslisms as terrorists.

  28. If there are Muslims protesting acts of terrorism, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT!!!

    However before anyone pops up with a claim of Western media bias, I have not seen any stories about such protests during my visits to Al Jazeera.

    Mind you, I understand why any Muslim would be reluctant to protest Muslim violence – Muslims don’t seem to mind killing Muslims.  But only Muslims can ultimately put a stop to this and redeem their faith from a dead-end existence as a haven of violence and ignorance.

  29. The sheer number of people involved in this insanity—we’re talking in the tens of thousands—makes it difficult for me to continue to believe the claim that “most Muslims are not extremists” that we’ve heard time and again since 9/11. The so called “moderate Muslim majority” has been awfully quiet about this nonsense and if all they’re going to do is stand around whistling when the extremists go psychotic then they’ve got no one else to blame but themselves for the image problem their religion has around the world.

    If they really give a shit about how they’re being perceived they’d be doing their best to put an end to this. As it stands the LEAST they could do is speak up about it.

  30. Muslim_Hater, you reminded me that nutjobs don’t just live in Texas.

    There are some parallels that can be drawn between the large crowds of Muslims calling for the destruction of Denmark and Germans calling for the expulsion of Jews prior to WW2.  Pack mentality is a damn dangerous thing.  In the hands of skilled orators, a crowd of fairly regular people can turn into a bloodthirsty mob.

    What I find especially ridiculous is that the angry muslims are bombing the Danish embassy, as if the Danish government had anything to do with the publishing of the cartoon.  Not recognising the difference between a governement and a newspaper is just ignorant, and this just adds to my theory that someone is rousing up these masses of pissed off muslims.

  31. A couple of good articles on truthdig.com today:

    Sam Harris on the Reality of Islam  with links to verses from the Koran like this gem:

    “Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . [I]f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers”(2:190–93).

    And then there’s this article, which speaks to the notion that these “protesters” have been purposely riled up:

    Cartoon Protests Stoked by Dictators

  32. STUPID EVIL BASTARDS ARE YOUR MASTERS THAT YOU ARE SCARED-SHIT TO CRITISIZE, THE ONE sCREWING YOUR COUNTRY, THE ONE TERRORIZING ALL OF YOU.
    DID YOU GUESS WHO IS IT YET

    ZIONAZIS YOUR MASTERS

    BY NOT STOPPING THEM YOU NOT ONLY HARMMING YOUR COUNTRY BUT ALSO THE REST OF THE WORLD

    HIS ULTIMATE GOAL

    GOY KILL GOY,  THE MORE THE BETTER

    ITS ALL IN EVIL-TALMUD

  33. Looks like someone managed to wriggle free of his straight jacket and got on the computer at the Nurse’s station. That or he typed it all in using his nose. Would explain a lot.

  34. OB quoted verse from quran
    Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . [I]f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers”(2:190–93).

    this verse is specifcly about the lords of mecca killin Mohammad followers, and driving him and the remaining followers out of their houses, and out of mecca. It is not general.

  35. Elohim,
    Mate, when did you last read TALMUD?
    “Who can protest and does not, is an accomplice in the act.

  36. Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita: I care not which path man takes for all roads lead to me.

    Interesting that you mention that, John. When I was eighteen I briefly considered becoming a Hari Krishna (my parents were thrilled oh oh ). What finally drove me away from it was the very aspect that has consistently forestalled me from becoming a strongly religious person—too many damn rules. Nowadays I consider myself leaning towards Wiccan/Pagan beliefs, even though I am hardly devout in any sense. I’ve always found polytheistic and Eastern religions far more fascinating than the monotheistic Western religions, particularly Christianity.

  37. luckyjohn19

    The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendour, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away

    The Jew saw them all, beat them all

    Not realy Mark Twain, I disagree

    if you consider the jews as race, then the romans,the Egyptions, the Babylonian, and the Persian are as a diluted race today as the jews. If you think of the jews as civilization, jewsh kingdoms also fell like the ones you mentioned.If you consider jews a religion, most of the old religions still exist as new as judism. I dont see how the jews beat them all.

  38. No they aren’t, I have a good friend who is muslim, she has never expressed an urge to go and kill anyone who doesn’t believe in islam. So there’s at least one who doesn’t fit your description.

    I have some ex-Muslim friends who have never mentioned any hatred or violence. I have found that the only Muslims who ARE violent are the ones who are actually devoted to the faith. My friends weren’t violent or hateful, but they also didn’t know what they believed (as a Muslim).

  39. Alphamale: if you consider the Jews as race, then the Romans, the Egyptians, the Babylonian, and the Persian are as a diluted race today as the Jews. If you think of the Jews as civilization, Jewish kingdoms also fell like the ones you mentioned. If you consider Jews a religion, most of the old religions still exist as new as Judaism. I don’t see how the Jews beat them all.

    All the others you mentioned had/have a land, country or base – the Jews survived despite not having same … the xian (and Muslim) plan was that they not survive – the Jews beat them all.  smile

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