Bush to oversee probe into what went wrong

(subheadline)President also says Cheney will visit Gulf Coast on Thursday
(So he is alive and well. I figured he was either dead, really sick, or on vacation!)

from MSNBC:

WASHINGTON – Beset with criticism over the federal response to Hurricane Katrina, President Bush said Tuesday he will oversee an investigation into what went wrong and why — in part to be sure that the country would withstand more storms or even a weapons of mass destruction attack.

All I can say is “You have got to be kidding!”

How could so many people (the 50 odd percent that voted for him) be SO very wrong!

I am literally shaking right now…

52 thoughts on “Bush to oversee probe into what went wrong

  1. I knew somehow he’d bring weapons of mass destruction into the matter.

    But wasn’t George Bush responsible for the delay? If that’s the case, why is he—of all people—overseeing the probe? Impeach the retard already.

  2. This doesn’t tell all the facts.

    The Senate, also, is bringing together a bipartisan commission to investigate the disaster.  I seriously doubt we can have too many people analyze the who’s, how’s, and why’s of this situation.

    rob@egoz.org

  3. Yeah, and when the Senate tries to request documents, those will mysteriously be unavailable, destroyed, missing, or redacted beyond utility for “national security reasons”.  wink

  4. But wasn’t George Bush responsible for the delay?

    No, he wasn’t. He actually called the governer of LA to implore that she press for the evacuation of N.O.

    The delays came from state and local officials.

  5. Ah, Warbi, the eternal, assumptive cynic.
    You neglect to remember that some of The Most Powerful Republicans have been hyper-critical of FEMA’s and DHS’s response.  If you listen to the Republican Leadership (i doubt many of you do), you would realise this shift of power in recent months.  Concern over the 2006 election has much to do with this silent RNC coup.

    Bush has little political capital to stonewall the Senate anymore.

    I predict:
    [] FEMA’s Brown shall resign very soon
    [] Chertoff shall resign by the end of this president’s term
    [] 9/11v2 shall make this disaster look like a dry-run

    rob@egoz.org

  6. Daniel Medley: I’m sorry, are you putting this on the Governor! The man who was on vacation until Thursday morning (9/1), who accepted a guitar from some country star on Wednesday (8/31)? You think he wasn’t responsible for the delay?

    Do you know that he declared New Orleans a disaster area on Monday or Tuesday. I can’t remember that one.

    I’m not saying that the local government doesn’t have some questions to answer. One I have is why wasn’t the poor bused out of New Orleans when the “Mandatory” evacuation order come in. We have seen lots of pictures of hundreds of school buses sitting halfway underwater now. They could have been used to get the folks out of town instead of being destroyed in the parking lots that they are at now.

    No, the President has a lot to answer for and if he “heads” the investigation, he will never be held accountable for his actions.

    We need an “independent” investigation into the matter, like the 9/11 commission.

  7. Dave M. I reeeally don’t think there’s going to be any independent investigation. Speaking as someone who believes the 9/11 comissions ended up more like a puppet show than anything, it would be a colossal waste of time and money. I firmly believe that any ruler should be held accountable for their actions, but I think we’re more than a little too late to the party to do anything about this administration.

  8. Your kidding, right? The man was “vacationing” from Sunday, to Wednesday (8/28 – 8/31)!

    This wasn’t a storm like we see here in St. Louis, this was a CAT 4 HURRICANE! Did he really think that the hurricane was going to do no damage at all! Did he really think that there would be no power outages, that water would keep running? If so, the man is more of an idiot than anyone ever estimated him to be!

    He needed to get off his butt, get to the White House and start telling people what to do! Not sit on his ass at his ranch and watch. However, it was keeping true to form for him. Look at when he was told about the World Trade Center on 9/11. He sat there reading a stupid book with children while our country was being attacked!

    Also, where the hell has Chaney been all this time! Not to mention Condi, oh that’s right, they were on vacation too. Gee, really hate to cut their vacations short. Sheesh!

    As I said before, it’s not fully him. There are questions to be answered by the local government too, but ultimately, Bush is responsible for this country! IT’S HIS JOB!!! It’s what the MAJORITY of the American people HIRED him to do!

    HE is the one who put FEMA under Homeland Securty! HE is the one who ultimately put Brown as director of FEMA! HE is the one who put Ridge and Chirtoff into their positions!

    If your child breaks a window somewhere, are you saying that you are not ultimately responsible for your child?

    Sheesh!

  9. Daniel Medley:No, he wasn’t. He actually called the governer of LA to implore that she press for the evacuation of N.O.

    The delays came from state and local officials.

    The call “imploring” evacuation of N.O. came on 8/28 just before the Governor and Nagin held a press conference to announce the mandatory evacuation, casting doubt over [Brit] Hume and [Brian] Wilson’s suggestion [on Fox News] that Bush’s phone call triggered the decision to evacuate. Further on 8/26 the Governor executed the State Emergency Plan on 8/26 and on 8/27 requested that the President declare a [Federal] State of Emergency for Louisiana. Having said that, it’s clear, in retrospect, that the local plans (or their implementation) were not up to the task at hand. It is also equally clear, not in retrospect, that a lot of Federal help would be necessary very quickly. When the Feds declared, I believe on 8/27, they assumed responsibility.

    Dave M. HE is the one who put FEMA under Homeland Security! HE is the one who ultimately put Brown as director of FEMA! HE is the one who put Ridge and Chirtoff into their positions!

    Clinton’s FEMA director, James Lee Witt, had actual, not made up, experience in disaster management. He was big on pre-positioning stuff—something noticeably absent during Katrina. The Federal response was slow off the starting blocks, and that goes right to the top.

  10. Dave M, you also forgot about cutting funding for the levee projects, ignoring warnings as recently as last year regarding this scenario, reversing policies of his father and Clinton regarding wetlands and barrier islands to open them up to developers which would have lessened the storm surge had they been left alone, having the National Guard and their amphibious equipment (in a desert, no less!) in a foreign country, and finally, his sloooooow reaction.  Hell, Venezuela and Canada were already offering aid to the US before Bush could be pried loose from his vacation.  Yes, there are others to blame, including previous administrations, and state and local governments, but Bush made a bad situation worse.  In addition, he is supposedly the commander-in-chief.  I know that when I was a manager, I was held responsible for failures made by my employees.  I was the one ultimately responsible for what my unit did or did not do.  You know damned well, that Bush would have been the first to claim credit if everything went as smoothly as possible.

  11. Man, you guys don’t listen.

    Dave M says:

    He needed to get off his butt, get to the White House and start telling people what to do! Not sit on his ass at his ranch and watch.

    It appears as though you’re not familiar with the Constitution and how the process is supposed to work. In a local disaster the chain of command flows up from the state and local level. The national guard is under the control of the state. The call for evacuation is supposed to come from the city officials. The Feds don’t get involved until state officials ask for it. It wasn’t Bush’s job to “tell people what to do”.

     

    Bush is responsible for this country! IT’S HIS JOB!!!

    Uh, no, it’s not his job to take care of people. The attitude you are displaying probably played the largest role in this tragedy. People waited around waiting for someone to take care of them instead of doing it themselves. The Mayor failed to act and waited for someone else to do his job and the governer acted like a deer caught in headlights.

    vernR says:

     

    The call “imploring

  12. I’m starting to believe that more fingers should point to state and local officials.  Yes, the ACOE budget was cut over and over again, but even with solid upkeep, the levees were only meant to be capable of withstanding a category 3.  The flooding and devistation is due to a natural disaster.  The death and carnage is due to the fact that New Orleans, a city just waiting to be flooded, did not have a disaster preparedness or evacuation plan.

    The “plan” to evacuate to the superdome did not include such silly things as food, water, and transportation.

    Yes, the feds stepped-in too late, and GWB’s perma-smirk needs to be smacked off his stupid mouth, but I believe that the local N.O. government should have been prepared to act FIRST.

    Here’s some interesting facts regarding the ACOE funding.

  13. After looking at your website Mr Medley, I understand your position completely. So I’m not going to waste my time and anger on you. I’m actually surprised you are not quoting some of the religions sites that are claiming that New Orleans had it coming to them.

    Moving on…

  14. Here are two detailed time lines. One at Wikipedia and the other at dKosopedia.

    The one at Wikipedia (currently) begins on 8/23/05 with the National Hurricane Service announcing the the formation of Tropical Depression 12 over the Bahamas. We see that the Governor of Louisiana slooooooowly declared a state of emergency after the storm hit Florida a Category 1 hurricane and before it was upgraded to Category 3.

    It appears as though you’re not familiar with the Constitution and how the process is supposed to work. In a local disaster the chain of command flows up from the state and local level. The national guard is under the control of the state. The call for evacuation is supposed to come from the city officials. The Feds don’t get involved until state officials ask for it. It wasn’t Bush’s job to “tell people what to do

  15. Apparently we listen better than you read.

    According to the Army Corps of Engineers the lack of funding had nothing to do with what happened and the section that broke was actually a section that had been refurbished.

      First of all, it was more than one section of levee that broke.  Secondly, it was the opinion of some engineers and not all:

    Several critics, including a former head of the Corps of Engineers (emphasis mine), suggested in a Tribune story Thursday that the flooding in New Orleans could have been less severe had the federal government fully funded projects to improve the levees and drainage in the city.

      Here is February article on the funding issue.  Here is a Project Fact Sheet from March by the

    Army Corps of Engineers.  This coupled with the destruction of the wetlands and barrier islands made the flooding more severe.

    The facts say otherwise. Bush pushed the locals to do their job.

     
      What facts are those?  Bush was too busy enjoying his vacation, dodging Sheehan, and playing guitar to pay attention to requests from the local governments for help.  As for Bush “waiting” for local government action- States’ Rights are okay when the States do what he wants.  Ask California medicinal marijuana clinics about Bush’s feelings on States’ Rights and local government purview.

    “My party is demonstrating that they are for states’ rights unless they don’t like what states are doing.”

    – CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Republican congressman of Connecticut, on the Schiavo case.

  16. Dave M states:

    Bush is responsible for this country! IT’S HIS JOB!!!

    And Daniel Medley responds:

    Uh, no, it’s not his job to take care of people.

    Ok…so all those people who voted for Bush because they thought Bush would take care of them (in terms of terrorism) were what?  Deluded?  Lied to?  Both?

    Putting aside the blame game for a moment, if the President is not supposed to take care of people (as well as other duties), then what is his job?  Just take care of corporations?  Oil supplies?  Himself?

    Running a country implies some level of taking care of its citizens.

    You may want to rethink that statement…unless you are telling us the true meaning of “compassionate conservative”.

  17. In terms of this hurricane, I’ve said before but this guy says it best:

    I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn’t fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible—local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana’s governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city’s mayor, Ray Nagin.

    The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.

    These are the facts, period. You may want it to be otherwise but this is how our government is supposed to work.

    So, no, I have no need to rethink my statement.

  18. These are the facts, period.

    That’s funny.  The facts?  That’s an editorial page you got, there.  Nevermind what the DoHS officials themselves say.

  19. The death and carnage is due to the fact that New Orleans, a city just waiting to be flooded, did not have a disaster preparedness or evacuation plan.

    It’s worse than you say: New Orleans did have a disaster preparedness and evacuation plan. The problem is nobody in local government seems to have been aware of its contents, or, if they were (as I believe they were), in the run-up to the hurricane they dropped the ball.

    Thank goodness we have Bush to kick around.

  20. First, I would encourage everyone that has not already done so to donate money to the disaster relief efforts through a charity of your choosing.

    Second, I believe that there is enough fault to go around for everybody. 

    1) Brock mentioned this an another thread, but it bears repeating.  Americans by their nature think that we can conquer anything including Mother Nature. By and large we do it with much success, shrugging off hurricanes regularly. This led to a false sense of security which resulted in fewer people evacuating.

    It is certainly true that many that stayed were ill or incapable for whatever reason of evacuating.  This was not everybody, nor would I hazard to guess even a majority.  It is equally true that many stayed because they wanted to.  These folks did not take adequate measures to provide for themselves.  The most basic preparations begin with stock food and water supplies.  Even I can figure out how to fill up milk cartoons and pop bottles with water from the tap before the storm hits.

    Obviously the sheer number of those that stayed, and their failure to prepare in a meaningful way complicated the logistics of the rescue efforts. Some of the blame for this is properly placed on the residents themselves.

    2) I initially thought that some blame lay with the National Hurrican Center. I wasn’t paying any attention to the storm until Sat. evening.  Upon review, the Hurrican Center was on the phone to the mayor and governor telling them that a disaster was coming their way long before they started speaking publicly. 

    3) The levee system should have been designed differently or we should not have let people live in NO.  Even I knew before the storm that NO could not successfully sustain a CAT 5 hurricane.  Given that, those of us that were intelligent enough to figure out that NO was a soup bowl waiting to be filled owed it to those that couldn’t or didn’t put it together. Those folks that didn’t understand the danger beforehand deserved better from us, and we failed them.

    Having said that, the funding issue some people are trumpeting about is a red herring.  To my knowledge there is no levy system in place anywhere in the world that could sustain a direct CAT 5 hit, which is what needed to be in place.  To my knowledge there were no plans to build such a system. 

    The most that can be said is that with additional funding the flooding MAY not have been so bad. Does anybody really think that 9 ft of water is somehow more acceptable than 12 ft?  Let it go. Those of you trumpeting this are trying score cheap political points from the suffering of U.S. citizens. 

    4) Poor leadership by the mayor of NO. This guy is an absolute moron. I have nothing but contempt in my heart for him. If he was a leader he would have been leading the charge to get food and water rather than goading others for his fauilures.

    It appears that LA had an evacuation plan for New Orleans.  It also appears that somebody even created crib notes for the eternally stupid, and wrote use the school buses.  Despite this, there was a Yahoo photo that shows I don’t know how many school buses under water.  All the mayor had to do was keep the buses dry and you have a ready means to evacuate people right there. 

    When the buses and other city assets were not preserved, this created a logistical problem.  NO is LA’s largest city.  It lacked other assets.  This meant that the feds had to first find buses, then get the buses to NO before they could start evacuating.

    4) LA’s governor lacked leadership.  She did not request mobilization of National Guard troops in a timely manner.  No matter what folks think Homeland Security does, the responsibility for mobilizing the Guard rests with the Governor. 

    5) President Bush and his staff are culpable as well.  They had to know.  There is no way that they could not know that the local and regional leadership was failing the citizens, yet it does not appear that they did anything. 

    Whether the administration is democrat or republican, we pay a lot of smart people to think about all kinds of shit that could go wrong.  It was projected that Katrina would hit as a CAT 5 (came ashore as a 4) and yet local authorities did hardly anything.  The people we pay to think about this stuff should have been sounding alarm bells to admin. officials to kick local officials in the ass and to initiate more prepositioning of rescue resources.

    6) Corrupt police force.  For those of you have been reading the blog The Interdictor, there is no doubt that the police participated in the looting.  When the officers of the law are leading the charge to pillage the community any hope of maintaining the social fabric in a community is gone.

    I don’t believe that this was foreseeable.  Nobody expected “The Man” to walk off the job and grab some for himself before he did so.  However, because of this evacuation efforts were complicated dramatically.  There were shots being fired at rescue workers evacuating hospitals.

    Now, instead of being able to rush aid into the afflicted area, the area has to be secured. It creates a rescue effort that is much more difficult to pull off in any type of timely fasion.

    8) The victims of the hurricane also bear some responsibility for the breakdown in the social fabric within the city. The number of law abiding citizens there vastly outnumbered the thugs. Yet, I’m not aware of anybody stepping up to the plate and taking on a leadership role to organize the refugees themselves while they were waiting. A great deterrent to the trouble makers at the convention center would have been to administer a bit of street justice. The failure to organize themselves resulted in a lack of any cohesion and they were prey for the wolves.

    9)  Mother Nature was a real bitch when she delivered this punch.  The disaster was not just in NO.  It was widespread along the Gulf coast with signfificant damage as far inland as Jackson, Miss.  The disaster area was in effect larger than the state of KS.  The logistics of coordinating aid for the entire area is staggering. 

    10)  The Media fell down on its job.  Everbody has 20/20 vision in hindsight.  However, it appears that everybody in the media and blogosphere went just as dumb as the government officials before the storm.  There was no outcry from anybody that I know of on radio, on tv, or on the internet, screaming that NO was going to flood and kill tens of thousands of people.  If I recall there was that pre-strom excitement about getting reporters stationed to televise the fury of Mother Nature firsthand.

    The flip side to this is that if it was so predictable that NO would end up the way it was, why wasn’t someone, anyone, screaming from the top of their lungs about this?  Because nobody did.  I think that reading a report about what could happen, and actually envisioing it happening are too different things.

    11) In taking stock of all that went wrong, and there was a lot, we must not forget that there were and are truly heroic men and women that risked their lives to save complete strangers.  First among these are the NO police officers that stayed on the job, the NO fire department, and the Coast Guard. 

    Those are my thoughts on the manner.

  21. That was certainly worth the effort, Consi.

    Daniel said (way back there) The national guard is under the control of the state. The call for evacuation is supposed to come from the city officials. The Feds don’t get involved until state officials ask for it. It wasn’t Bush’s job to “tell people what to do

  22. Even more incredible intelligence from FEMA:

    From MSNBC:
    It turns out, according to the worker, who like the other aid workers spoke on condition of anonymity, that the call to the FEMA number does not open a claim; it results in a package containing the claim form being mailed to the address of the evacuee.

    Since the evacuee is in a shelter, mail service has been suspended in many of the hardest hit areas and some of the homes are likely still under water, it seems clear that those claim forms won’t be mailed back any time soon.

    Stories like this seem to be popping up all over the net.

  23. Bush should have just sent the military the moment he declared the area in a state of emergency.

    There’s a little legal matter that gets in the way of this; it’s called the Constitution.

    There is blame to be placed all the way up and down the line but the most egregious failures occured on the state and local level. Fore example in this interview between Hugh Hewitt Fox’s Major Garrett:

    HH: You just broke a pretty big story. I was watching up on the corner television in my studio, and it’s headlined that the Red Cross was blocked from delivering supplies to the Superdome, Major Garrett. Tell us what you found out.

    MG: Well, the Red Cross, Hugh, had pre-positioned a literal vanguard of trucks with water, food, blankets and hygiene items. They’re not really big into medical response items, but those are the three biggies that we saw people at the New Orleans Superdome, and the convention center, needing most accutely. And all of us in America, I think, reasonably asked ourselves, geez. You know, I watch hurricanes all the time. And I see correspondents standing among rubble and refugees and evacuaees. But I always either see that Red Cross or Salvation Army truck nearby. Why don’t I see that?

    HH: And the answer is?

    MG: The answer is the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security, that is the state agency responsible for that state’s homeland security, told the Red Cross explicitly, you cannot come.

    HH: Now Major Garrett, on what day did they block the delivery? Do you know specifically?

    MG: I am told by the Red Cross, immediately after the storm passed.

    Oh wait, it’s all Bush’s fault.

  24. Top previous news with this:

    From BobHarris.com

    I checked the parish map against the White House’s own press release, posted on their own site.  I have tried to figure out how this is my own mistake, but I can’t find it.  And the results are frankly so bizarre I had to make the graphic in order to properly show you.

    Welcome to upside-down-land: the areas at risk for Katrina were quite remarkably the areas not included in Bush’s declaration of emergency.

    If you click on the map he has posted, you will see the parish’s that were declared in the statement from the White House. Truly amazing that we are all still alive with the kind of competence we are seeing from the Bush Administration!

  25. Here’s a question: Do you think that some of the reason the citizens of NO didn’t respond to the threat of the hurricane was because for the past 4 years we have constantly lived under the threat of major disasters that never actually come to pass? First it was Y2K, which was a fizzle in spite of whatever potential for disaster there might have been. Then, after 9/11, we’ve been dealing with ever-fluctuating threat levels and dire governmental prognistications, even though no new terrorist attacks have occurred in this country. I wonder if people haven’t become so inured to hearing constant hysterical warnings that they can no longer recognize the ones with actual merit.

  26. A piece of good news to report:

    From Yahoo! News
    Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown is being removed from his role managing Hurricane Katrina relief efforts, The Associated Press has learned.

    Brown is being sent back to Washington from Baton Rouge, where he was the primary official overseeing the federal government’s response to the disaster, according to two federal officials who declined to be identified before the announcement.

    Brown will be replaced by Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad w. Allen, who was overseeing New Orleans relief and rescue efforts.

    It’s about time! Pity it wasn’t done on 8/31, but maybe the horror stories I’m hearing about FEMA run detainment camps and such will stop.

  27. Wow !! Dave M. That link you provided (FEMA run detainment camps) was like an Xfiles episode.

    Frightening !

  28. To add insult to injury…

    Actually from the WSJ: “Ten U.S. Army recruiters are offering volunteer help for Katrina evacuees at Houston’s Astrodome. But the recruiters, struggling to keep enlistment up during Iraq war, are also available with options for the jobless. “Our intent is to approach the evacuees at the right time for them,’’ says Army spokesman Douglas Smith.

  29. “Our intent is to approach the evacuees at the right time for them,’’ says Army spokesman Douglas Smith.

      Yeah, I saw that bullshit too.  So when is the “right” time?  This sounds pretty damned close to “coercive choice” theory.  hmmm

  30. That’s interesting… Our Mr. Daniel Medley’s website has been suspended. Hmm.. I wonder why?

    He’s back.  We’re linked from the phrase “blithering moonbats on the Left” on the current article.

    WooHoo!  Hey, everybody, we’re blithering moonbats!  On the Left!

    ‘Course not everyone here is a “leftie”, but hey, why get hung up on details.

    In other news, what could Bush have done?  He could have continued Clinton’s work rebuilding FEMA from the budgetary and organizational rape of Bush 1 and Reagan, instead of putting FEMA under a BS agency and giving them totally unqualified leadership.

    It is true that levees alone are a poor bet in a Cat5 hurricane, but they certainly did need improvement.  He could have persued that.

    He could have signed the Kyoto protocol.  It’s a start.

    He could have continued – and even expanded on – Clinton’s policies of wetlands protection.  But how was he to know that there would be a connection between wetlands and hurricane protection?  He could have listened to what the scientific community has been saying for years, like Clinton did.  But listening to scientists isn’t his “thing”.

    (And before anyone goes ballistic at the mention of the Evil One’s name, “Clinton,” no, I’m not sayin’ Clinton was perfect.  He was like a poorly regulated clock – never exactly right.  But Bush is like a clock that doesn’t run at all – right twice a day.)

  31. I have to agree with Ingolfson in that I don’t really have a problem with the Army trying to recruit Katrina evacuees. If the time frame for rebuilding is going to be even remotely close to the dire predictions being made (and I don’t think it’ll be quite that bad) then going into the military may not be a bad option for a lot of people. Especially if they were poor and unemployed previously as they can get some very valuable training and money for college. True some of them may not come back from their stint in the military what with the current idiocy taking place in Iraq, but as long as they’re being asked and not forced into joining then it’s still an option worth considering if they have few others to choose from

  32. Before, they had x choices, many of them bad. Now, with the recruiters, they have x+1 choices, whatever you think of that additional option.

    Right.  Yes, they might be shot in the military, but there are hazards to being poor, being uneducated, to having no self-control or discipline, and YES (blithering leftie moonbat that I am grin ) I do partially blame poverty on the poor.  A stint is the military is an honorable, constructive option.

  33. Les, I can’t believe you agree with that. We agree on so much other stuff.

    I don’t even really like the idea of the recruiter’s going into poor neighborhood’s trying to get kids that feel that they have no other options. I would rather mop bathroom floors than serve in the military right now. I don’t have a problem with serving in the military mind you, just for a just cause, not because our President want’s oil or to make his father look bad.

    However, the recruiters going into the shelters attempting to recruit those poor victim’s of the hurricane. That’s just sick. I would suspect that most of those folks actually had jobs, some even two or more. Not having a car and all that goes with it doesn’t mean that they didn’t have jobs. The others are way to old or young to even consider.

    As to Mr. Medley and his site. I notice that he didn’t seem to mention that Mr. Brown was all but fired from his post as the head of FEMA. Interesting. I may be a blithering leftie moonbat, but at least I look at both sides of the coin when forming opinions.

  34. Les, I can’t believe you agree with that. We agree on so much other stuff.

    It had to happen sooner or later. After all, we’re not clones, despite what some on the Right might think. wink

    I don’t even really like the idea of the recruiter’s going into poor neighborhood’s trying to get kids that feel that they have no other options. I would rather mop bathroom floors than serve in the military right now. I don’t have a problem with serving in the military mind you, just for a just cause, not because our President want’s oil or to make his father look bad.

    If the recruiters are going in there and portraying themselves as the only viable choice then I’d have a problem with the sales pitch itself, but not necessarily with the recruitment effort.

    Whether I agree with what the current mission of the military happens to be or not that doesn’t change the fact that volunteering to join it is a good option for a lot of people who lack the opportunities or education for much of anything else. The people who volunteer will be getting something of value in exchange in the form of training and the G.I. Bill.

    Certainly if the folks in question have qualms with what they may be asked to participate in then they shouldn’t sign up nor should they be coerced into signing up, but not everyone has a problem with the war in Iraq—regardless of whether I think they should or not— and if they don’t and joining would be to their advantage then I see no reason why the military shouldn’t be seeking them out.

    However, the recruiters going into the shelters attempting to recruit those poor victim’s of the hurricane. That’s just sick. I would suspect that most of those folks actually had jobs, some even two or more. Not having a car and all that goes with it doesn’t mean that they didn’t have jobs. The others are way to old or young to even consider.

    I honestly don’t see how it’s sick at all. Sure some or even most of them may have had a job already, perhaps even two, but that doesn’t mean that joining the military wouldn’t be advantageous to them. Most of those jobs are gone now and likely will be for awhile. Even if the jobs come back anytime soon the question remains if they’re better than going into the military. For some, sure, for others, no.

    As to Mr. Medley and his site. I notice that he didn’t seem to mention that Mr. Brown was all but fired from his post as the head of FEMA. Interesting. I may be a blithering leftie moonbat, but at least I look at both sides of the coin when forming opinions.

    I find Daniel’s website to be an amusing read. We must be a relatively new discovery for him as we’re linked like crazy in the most recent entries, but near non-existent prior to that. I take great amusement in being described as a “blithering leftie moonbat” for some reason.

  35. I’ll trow my hat in with the blithering leftie moonbats and agree with the recruiters presenting various and sundry opportunities to the Katrina refugees.

    As stupid as things have gotten in Iraq, and given the time-frame it would take for these people to get back on their feet, the military makes a decent amount of sense.  Some of them could probably get a locked in 3-year tour and be back before the city is completely restored.  Plus they’ll have gained an additional skill, some more pride and have the FEMA money.

    I don’t think anyone but the most hardened conservative would want the military to be the only choice these people have before going postal in a shelter.  In Texas, several job fairs are being held only only for Katrina refugees.  Some of the smaller businesses have been actively recruiting specialty trades like arc-welders, masons and mechanics.

  36. That’s interesting… Our Mr. Daniel Medley’s website has been suspended. Hmm.. I wonder why?

    My site was suspended because of a DOS from blithering moonbat, commie left brown shirts who don’t like what I have to say.

    Don’t worry, I’m back up.

    As to Mr. Medley and his site. I notice that he didn’t seem to mention that Mr. Brown was all but fired from his post as the head of FEMA.

    Was planning to but my site was suspended.

    We must be a relatively new discovery for him as we’re linked like crazy in the most recent entries, but near non-existent prior to that.

    Actually, I’ve had you on my roll for, I’m thinking, a couple of years now.

    To be clear, I’m not saying that the Feds and Bush are blameless. It’s just that it’s apparrent that the blame starts at the bottom and works it’s way up through the whole process.

    Also for the record, I like this site (stupid evil bastard). I agree with much of what you say and I disagree with much of what you say. If we all agreed on everything the world would suck.

  37. I have to admit that I’m surprised that SEB has never been the victim of a DDoS attack. I’ve always chalked that up to it being a small fish in a big pond, which is probably the case.

    To be clear, I’m not saying that the Feds and Bush are blameless. It’s just that it’s apparent that the blame starts at the bottom and works it’s way up through the whole process.

    I have no quarrels with that statement as I agree that there’s plenty of blame to go around. My biggest problem with the Bush Administration is the fact that they’ve known about the potential for this disaster all along as well as what could be done to help mitigate it—such as restoring some of the wetlands destroyed by the creation of the levees in the first place—yet they passed legislation that actively destroyed even more wetlands by turning them over to developers and that’s just plain old stupid.

    I see a lot of this being the result of Bush’s tendencies to suppress any science he’s presented with that doesn’t match up with his political viewpoints. Could he have stopped the hurricane? Of course not, but some of the policy decisions he made contributed to the problem instead of helping to diminish it. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt about not being able to anticipate 9/11, but when he claims that no one could have foreseen the collapse of the levees he’s just flat out lying.

    Also for the record, I like this site (stupid evil bastard). I agree with much of what you say and I disagree with much of what you say. If we all agreed on everything the world would suck.

    I can certainly agree with you on that. For one thing, I’d have a lot less to rant about on my blog.

  38. To be clear, I’m not saying that the Feds and Bush are blameless. It’s just that it’s apparent that the blame starts at the bottom and works it’s way up through the whole process.

    See, this is where we agree to disagree. If a, oh lets say a waiter, is behaving inappropriately and the customer complains, the head waiter steps in. If the head waiter doesn’t satisfy the customers complaints, the manager is brought in. This process keeps moving on until the head of the chain or corporation that runs the restaurant is involved. At which point, lawyers have probably been brought in. This is an extrema case, but it still shows a chain of command that ends at the top. This is why Chartoff removed Brown. Not because Brown stepped aside, but because Chartoff, being told to “Fix it!”, fixed it.

    Hell, all you have to do is look at the White House’s own website to see how badly they bungled the whole thing. Declaring parish’s that were in no danger of the hurricane in a state of emergency. How in the world is Nagin supposed to deal with a CAT 4 hurricane when the President can’t even figure out which perishes are involved.

  39. The more I ponder Bush’s mentality the more I liken him to one of those mothers that smothers their children and then rushes to the hospital… or a fireman who starts a blaze just so he can be the first on the scene to put it out.

    I have no problem starting at the lowest level of failure and taking corrective action.  I do have a problem when the people in charge deflect responsibility so they they can play the role of hero.

  40. Bush Takes Responsibility for Blunders

    President Bush said Tuesday that “I take responsibility” for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and said the disaster raised broader questions about the government’s ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks.

    “Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government,” Bush said at joint White House news conference with the president of Iraq.

    “To the extent the federal government didn’t fully do its job right, I take responsibility,” Bush said.

    Well, it’s about fricken time! Now mind you, it’s not as complete as I would have liked to see, but it’s a start.

    I’m sure this and the address to the nation he’s going to do on Thursday, is just a ploy to up his poll numbers, but to make such a statement in front of a foreign leader is interesting and must have been a little embarrassing. smile

  41. Holy shit! I’m stunned! Quite literally. As much as it pains me to say it, this does raise my opinion of Bush at least a little bit. He’s earned the benefit of the doubt. For the moment, at least.

  42. Agreed. The more I listen to what was going on, the more I get the impression that Chertoff/Brown (mostly Brown) were a large part of the problem.

    I have also read something rather interesting. We haven’t heard from Cheney much lately because he wanted Bush to flounder instead of Cheney fixing the problem like he has in the past. I think I saw that on the Crooks and Liars website.

    I still feel he should have gone to Washington as soon as the hurricane hit or even the Sunday before, after all, he did acknowledge that the hurricane would be a big problem for New Orleans and the gulf coast.

  43. Dave,

    I will never understand people that are so full of contempt that they want to cut off the leg to save the foot.  I just don’t get it.

    Let’s review:  Everybody from the local level to the top fell down on the job.  It is an embarassment to all of us that this happened.  Dave smiles about it, and I’m just guessing here, but presumably because it embarasses Bush.

    Hundreds dead, tens of thousands of homeless, but Bush is embarassed so it makes him happy.  The title of this website has never been so apropos.

  44. I’m sorry, you think that what happened to the victims of the hurricane made me happy? I’m not really sure where you got that from.

    Since before the storm hit, I was unhappy and even mad about what was going on down there. Putting all those people in the SuperDome was the stupidest thing I had ever heard. If that structure had collapsed, there would have been a huge number of dead and criminal investagitions would have had to have been started. That at least didn’t happen, allthough it sounded like it was close…

    I was mad about Bush sitting on his ass at his ranch during all this not making sure that everybody was doing what they were suppoed to be doing. All the way down to the mayor of New Orleans if that’s what it takes.

    I was mad about the comment “No one expected the levee’s to fail” which is the biggest load of bullshit I have heard to date!

    I was mad about FEMA not knowing about the folks at the convention center even though reports seemed to know about that days earlier!

    I could go on an on. I was by no means happy. I still feel that Bush should be impeached, however, I’m not sure I want Cheney to be his replacement.

    I am happy that Bush is finally fessing up to his multiple blunders. It’s something he should have done about two weeks ago!

  45. Consi,

    Let’s review:  Everybody from the local level to the top fell down on the job.  It is an embarassment to all of us that this happened.

    The sky is falling, but for once I agree with you.

    It is painfully obvious that there was a systemic failure and the most important questions in anybody’s mind should be:

    a) How do we resolve the current mess?

    b) What can we do to make sure that the next large terror attack or natural disaster doesn’t catch the United States with its pants down again?

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