The New Theocracy is Here!

By a vote of 100 – Zip in the U.S. Senate and with only 88 dissenting votes in the House, King George II this morning (in his pajamas) signed into law the first bit of legislation that could sincerely qualify as the beginning of a Theocracy.

WASHINGTON (CNN)—The fight over whether Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube should be restored moved to federal court Monday after Congress passed emergency legislation in the severely brain-damaged woman’s case.

President Bush signed the bill into law early Monday, shortly after it cleared the House of Representatives by a 203-58 vote. The Senate passed the legislation by voice vote Sunday.

The unprecedented move transferred jurisdiction in the case to a federal judge for review.

Our Congress and

King President felt the necessity to intervene in the hospital room of ONE INDIVIDUAL because THEY speak for

dog God. Can the Thought Police be far behind???

63 thoughts on “The New Theocracy is Here!

  1. You are absolutely right.
    This story has taken a religious twist and you can see complete strangers protesting, reading the bible, crying, making sure their judment gets across….like a big advertizing show…for their political and religious reasons. Where’s the compassion for the husband. I also feel for the woman’s family but they don’t seem to realise that she is completely broken, or maybe they have been brainwashed by the media, politicians and an army of lawyers.

    The only thing I am not sure is why they would just stop feeding her. I find this a little violent. There must be a smoother way to end her “life”.

    Even Michael Jackson’s case is taking a religious turn.

  2. The Schiavo thing is really something I just don’t get…I really think the federal govt. has no place in this issue…but part of me wonders why the husband refuses to let the Dr.‘s do a PET scan or an MRI…which would be conclusive on the extent of the brain damage…

    Sorry, this is off topic but every time I see King George II…I think of this little poem that an English Prof encouraged us to memorize…

    George the First was always reckoned
    Vile, but viler still George the Second;
    And what mortal ever heard
    Any good of George the Third?
    When from earth the fourth descended
    God be praised, the Georges ended!

  3. I’m sure you have noticed this.  Every time George goes into his stupid mode and finds that governing the nation is “hard”, he shifts the issues to matter of personal choice, emotional issues, nipples, and his Right Wing responds magnificently with some Bible quotations, weepy rhetoric until the distraction has its effect and George can go back to his ranch again.
    BlueEyedBanshee: thanks for the poem. It hits the spot!

  4. Well, it did surprise me to hear that the law SPECIFICALLY states that ‘any parent of Terri Schiavo’ has a right to sue…

    Only makes the narrow, heavy-handed way this is handled more apparent.

    Though BlueEyedBanshee, I felt the same unease about her husband. Either he is a very fishy person or he knows absolutely for sure that she would not want to live that way. Otherwise it seems pretty cruel (if only to her parents) to not accede to their request to let them care for her.

    As it is, the NYTimes is pretty much right. States laaw and simple dignity got pretty much stamped into the dust these days.

    The cynical part of me wonders what case would hurt the Republicans more: if she dies before they manage to reinsert the tube, or if she is forced to survive.

    And on a final note: her husband and judge Greer will need bodyguards for the next few decades…

  5. The Senate voice vote is what caught my attention.  According to Wikipedia:

    On March 19, 2005, congressional leaders announced that they were drafting a bill which would order the reinsertion of Schiavo’s feeding tube and transfer the case from state court to federal court. In the very early hours of March 21, Congress approved emergency legislation. Despite an absence of quorum, the Senate approved the bill(S 686 CPS) by voice vote. Only three Senators, Bill Frist (R-TN), Rick Santorum (R-PA), and Mel Martinez (R-FL), were present. The bill passed unanimously, with 97 Senators not present.

    Our government at work.

  6. Your tuned into “The Weakness of Democracy in Action.”  Up next is Anarchy.  Until then enjoy the show.

  7. I’ve been following this story for a while. The recent intervention by Congress and King George just sicken me. This is a personal matter that should have been handled with the family members, the husband, and their legal representatives. The government has no right to take matters into their own hands.
    As for it taking a religious twist, it’s not all that surprising. Bush seems to be able to turn anything he wants into a religious issue. What is surprising is that the judge ruled in favor of the husband. We’ll have to see how the appeal plays out.

  8. I had a pretty long response to the Schiavo situation worked out and lost it when I went to post.

    So I’ll just say, where’s our confidence in our government? Maybe this is their way of letting us know that socialized medicine is on the way. Those rascals are just getting us worked up for the entertainment value before – SURPRISE, we got you free health care! Now don’t you feel guilty?

    “Yes, I do US Government, yes I do, you playful nuts!”

  9. People here keep saying Bush is turning this into a religious issue, but in the linked article all Bush says is that its a complex issue that federal courts should be allowed to examine more closely.

    Any actual evidence of Bush turning this into a religious issue, or do we have another case of atheists talking out of their asses here?

  10. What most people dont know that are just begining to notice this case (it’s been in Florida news for years) is that there have been tests done.  EEG showed no brain activity.  CT scan showed that her cerebral cortex has atrophied and most or all of it is just gone.  Fluid fills the space where what makes us human used to be.  All this is in the public court documents and most have been posted somewhere or other on line.  The parents want to try hyperbaric oxygen therapy and a bunch of other quack stuff and have a bunch of quack docs who have never examined her sign statements that their quack therapies might work.  You can’t regrow someones cortex. 

    I guess at some point her husband said enough is enough.  Apparently he stands to gain nothing by her death, although it is often implied there is some “inheretance” to be gained. 

    There are such ironies in this case.  The first that strikes me is that the Right has been harping for months about the sanctity of the marriage bond between a man and a woman, but here they are interfering in that marriage bond because this husband is doing something they don’t agree with.

    They talk about cutting medicaid? Guess what pays for Terri’s care? A combination of Medicaid and the settlement from a medical malpractice lawsuit (which is almost gone). If the Republicans have their way, you could become incapacitated, not be able to sue a doctor for malpractice and not have medicaid to pay for your care, but be FORCED to be kept alive…Exactly how would care be paid for?

    What about the republican motto of people being able to live their lives without government interference? At this point both the state and FEDERAL governments have passed legislation specifically and only related to the existence of ONE WOMAN.

    These people supposedly believe in a God who has prepared a paradise for them. Why are they so afraid to let her go there? Why is it preferable to let this woman’s soul be trapped in a body with the approximate developement of a gold fish for endless years rather than let her peacefully pass on to her God and “Heaven”. 

    Got Living Wills?  Hopefully they will be enough, although I have to question whether my right to refuse care, even when my wishes are expressed in writing, will at some point be overruled by a government that “knows better.”

  11. Yeah, another example of States’ Rights being trampled into the dust.  Federalism died a swift death under this administration- there wasn’t even a need to remove the feeding tube for it.

  12. People here keep saying Bush is turning this into a religious issue, but in the linked article all Bush says is that its a complex issue that federal courts should be allowed to examine more closely.

    Any actual evidence of Bush turning this into a religious issue, or do we have another case of atheists talking out of their asses here?

    Perhaps you’d do well than just look at the one sole article that was linked in this entry, Brian. Here, try the March 21st Press Gaggle by Scott McClellan at the White House webpage for starters. In it McClellan explains Bush’s reasoning for signing the legislation. When pressed on why the legislation is limited to just one person rather than broadened to protect anyone else in similar situations McClellan gave the following response:

      I think I addressed that previously Anne, when you brought it up. This is an extraordinary circumstance. And this law was narrowly tailored. It didn’t create any new substantive rights under federal or state law, but it is an extraordinary circumstance. We stand with Terri Schiavo’s parents. We stand with members of Congress, Democrats and Republicans, and all those who are on the side of defending life. There are a number of questions that have been raised in this case and the President believes we ought to err on the side of life in this situation.

    Furthermore there’s the

  13. Thanks, Loris. Good research and excellent questions. One more thought: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” U.S. Constitution, Amemdmemt X. Didn’t the members of [strike/]Parliament Congress and the [strike/]KingPresident take an oath to preserve and defend the Constitution? Can they be impeached for breach of that oath? wink

  14. It sounds like Bush has been pretty careful about not making it directly religious, but his religious base are the ones who are whipped up into a frenzy by this.

    Her husband, who lost his wife 15 years ago, is vilified for his relationship to another woman.  That is just sad.  His wife is DEAD and has been for a decade and a half. 

    Ingolfson, I don’t think he’s a fishy person.  How many people do YOU know who would insist on being kept alive in Terri’s condition? What is the proportion of people who feel that way to people who feel they’d rather die?  Ask around.

    Even if he didn’t know his wife at all, chances are excellent that he is right.  And he did know her.  When you marry someone, you trust them.  She didn’t say, “If he makes a decision my parents don’t like, I want them to take over.”

    What really, really scares me about this is what Warbi said – the death of federalism.  Bush just put a bullet right through its heart – again.  Every time states have wanted to do something he disagreed with, Bang!

  15. Well I wouldn’t say this is a step towards a theocracy, but it is a gross violation of states rights and an unacceptable injection of politics into the judicial process.

  16. Being a lowly foreigner, I am interested to know how this would usually be handled.  Through the courts as per the rest of the world, or is George always willing to dispense his wisdom (or lack thereof) to all who deserve it? 

    Oh, and if America collaspses into anarchy, does that mean it’ll cost more to fill my gas tank?  I’m already at $90 a week -_-’

  17. What I find interesting about all this is that in 1999, Mr. Bush took the position that the spouse (not the parents) had the primary authority to act on behalf of an individual who fails to leave a directive or is incapable of issuing a directive regarding treatment or the withdrawl of life-sustaining treatment.

    See section 166.039 of the following: http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/HS/content/htm/hs.002.00.000166.00.htm)

    I suspect that this is Mr. Bush’s means of pandering to the religious right (to whom he owes a huge debt) who aren’t about to obtain serious action from him on abortion.

  18. This is all so unbelievable, yet I can only shake my head and not be too surprised.  In the past 5 years we’ve seen our government do things that 15-20 years ago would have been unthinkable.  The voices of reason, moderation and just plain common sense no longer matter or are even heard.

    As a mother, I feel for Terri’s parents, but in my opinion, they and their whackjob supporters should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.  Their reliance on bad “scientific” information and dubious medical opinions is delusional at best and dangerously ignorant at worst.

    But no, I am not surprised.

  19. This is somewhat reminiscent of the case of Robert Latammer in Canada.  He “killed”(and I use the word with hesitation) his severely handicapped daughter by putting her in a running car with the fumes coming in, and was charged. 

    But when it happened in Canada, it went to the supreme court without any interference or hysteria on the part of the government.

    I don’t mean to flout Canada here, I just think it’s sickening to see the US government so blatantly doing whatever they feel is “right” this week.

    On another note, is there any precedent for the US government passing a bill on the behalf of ONE person?

  20. not only is there no precedent, this type of legislation is EXPRESSLY prohibited under the constitution of the U’S’A’.

  21. What about the “sanctity of marriage,” or is that only in so far as the spouse agrees with our Glorious Leader’s theology, umm, philosophy? And what about the other testimomy of witnesses that lead Judge Greer to come to the decision that Michael’s side had presented “clear and convincing evidence” that Terri did not want to live as a vegetable? That was all that was required to prove the case in court, not “proof beyond a reasonable doubt,” as in a criminal case. The Law is obviously on Michael’s side, which just makes the Fundies furious. LOL

  22. Okay, now this is over the line. . . I just heard on CNN that the parents are claiming that by some miracle, Terry mouthed the words, “I want to live” to her father as he told her about the struggles to keep her going. (Somehow I sense a Monty Python moment here . . )

  23. Bring out yer dead.
    [a man puts a body on the cart]
    Large Man with Dead Body: Here’s one.
    The Dead Collector: That’ll be ninepence.
    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn’t: I’m not dead.
    The Dead Collector: What?
    Large Man with Dead Body: Nothing. There’s your ninepence.
    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn’t: I’m not dead.
    The Dead Collector: ‘Ere, he says he’s not dead.
    Large Man with Dead Body: Yes he is.
    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn’t: I’m not.
    The Dead Collector: He isn’t.
    Large Man with Dead Body: Well, he will be soon, he’s very ill.
    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn’t: I’m getting better.
    Large Man with Dead Body: No you’re not, you’ll be stone dead in a moment.
    The Dead Collector: Well, I can’t take him like that. It’s against regulations.
    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn’t: I don’t want to go on the cart.
    Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, don’t be such a baby.
    The Dead Collector: I can’t take him.
    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn’t: I feel fine.
    Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, do me a favor.
    The Dead Collector: I can’t.
    Large Man with Dead Body: Well, can you hang around for a couple of minutes? He won’t be long.
    The Dead Collector: I promised I’d be at the Robinsons’. They’ve lost nine today.
    Large Man with Dead Body: Well, when’s your next round?
    The Dead Collector: Thursday.
    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn’t: I think I’ll go for a walk.
    Large Man with Dead Body: You’re not fooling anyone, you know. Isn’t there anything you could do?
    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn’t: I feel happy. I feel happy.
    [the Dead Collector glances up and down the street furtively, then silences the Body with his a whack of his club]
    Large Man with Dead Body: Ah, thank you very much.
    The Dead Collector: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
    Large Man with Dead Body: Right.

    I know it’s terribly insensitive of me, but I burst out laughing when I read that Schiavo was making an impassioned plea for her life. . . 

    “Whoa, the vegetable speaks!  You’re supposed to be brain dead!”

    “No I’m not,  I’ve just been faking, get away from that feeding tube, you heartless bastard!”

    Apologies for the lengthy quote, but it made me giggle, so I wanted to share.

    source

  24. Don’t feel bad, nowiser.  My boss and I have been reciting same Monty Python bit for the past two days.  Since the Supreme Court just now ruled against Terri’s parents, maybe this abuse of the judiciary and nationally embarassing farce will come to an end.

    I do, however, expect this to be a South Park episode in the near future.  Heartless, maybe, but I cannot wait.  Well, maybe not heartless, just heartily disgusted at the whole thing.

  25. Bet you didn’t see this one.

    Terri Schiavo Can Still be Rehabilitated, Nobel Prize-Nominated Doctor Says
    by Steven Ertelt
    LifeNews.com Editor
    March 7, 2005

    Clearwater, FL (LifeNews.com)—Despite the contention of Terri Schiavo’s estranged husband Michael and courts that have allowed him to starve her to death, a doctor nominated for the Nobel Prize says he believes medical therapies are still available that could help Terri party recover from her disabled state.

    Dr. William Hammesfahr is an internationally recognized expert on cases of brain-injured patients. He has been identified in helping patients with chronic brain injuries from many causes actually leave long term disability, and return to work.

    Terri Schiavo’s injury, hypoxic encephalopathy, is a type of stroke that he treats every day with success.

    “We, and others I know, have treated many patients worse than Terri and have seen them regain independence and dignity,” Hammesfahr said.

    “There are many approaches that would help Terri Schiavo,” Dr. Hammesfahr explained. “I know, because I had the opportunity to personally examine her, her medical records, and her X-rays.”

    “It is time to help Terri, instead of just warehousing her,” he added. “She would have benefited from treatment years ago, but it is not too late to start now.”

    This isn’t the first time Hammesfahr has discussed Terri’s plight.

    Last year, he explained that, after examining Terri, he believed that she could eventually eat and drink on her own. He also said he believes Terri would be able to talk and have good use of one arm and one hand should be given proper rehabilitative treatment.

    Hammesfahr also said he thought Terri would eventually be able to transfer herself from a wheelchair to a bed.

    “The patient is not in a coma,” concluded Hammesfahr said after observing Terri. “She responds to specific people best. She tries to please others by doing activities for which she gets verbal praise.”

    He says Terri’s eyes clearly fixate on her family and she tries to follow the simple commands her parents give her.
    “She looks at you, she can follow commands,” Hammesfahr said.

    Dr. Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999.

  26. THEOCRAT, I bet you saw positive mention of Dr.Hammesfahr’s assessments of Terry Schiavo’s chances mostly on religious and right to life websites, but did you see this?

    Fox News host Sean Hannity and MSNBC host Joe Scarborough both promoted Dr. William Hammesfahr’s false claim that he is a Nobel Prize nominee.

    Hammesfahr, a Florida neurologist disciplined in 2003 by the Florida Board of Medicine who claims he can help Terri Schiavo, testified during an October 2002 court hearing on the Schiavo case that his claim to be a Nobel nominee is based on a letter written by Rep. Mike Bilirakis (R-FL) recommending him for the prize. But Bilirakis is not qualified to make a valid nomination under the Nobel rules.

    Read the article carefully.

    If you only read sites like LifeNews…

    Formerly the Pro-Life Infonet, LifeNews.com has been harnessing the power of the Intenet since 1992 to bring pro-life news to the pro-life community.

    …which has a clear agenda to promote pro-life issues, it’s unlikely you’ll get a responsible, impartial view of the facts.

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009

  27. Forgot to mention that even if Hammesfahr had been nominated, the rules of the organization prohibit disclosing the nomination for 50 years.

    Has X been nominated as a candidate for the Nobel Prize, or where do I find a list of Nobel Prize nominees?

    According to the Statutes of the Nobel Foundation, information about the nominations is not to be disclosed, publicly or privately, for a period of fifty years. The restriction not only concerns the nominees and nominators, but also investigations and opinions in the awarding of a prize. Nomination information older than fifty years is public.

    http://nobelprize.org/help/faq/#1

    Does the doctor have no more respect for the Nobel Prize foundation than to break its basic rules and why are people so lazy about getting the facts concerning issues like these?

  28. Actually I don’t read news, I just saw that link on another bulletin board and thought I would post it to bring some balance to nunyabiz’s stuff.  The legitimacy of his Nobel prize nomination however has nothing to do with his ability to help Schiavo.  If you have any info on his inability to treat her case as he claims that would be more relevant than revealing he wasn’t really nominated for a Nobel prize.

  29. I know it’s terribly insensitive of me, but I burst out laughing when I read that a man believes that having a politician write a letter is practically the same thing as actually winning a Nobel Prize.

    Actually, I like this system.  By this standard, I’m not a doctoral school dropout, I’m actually the Current Chair of the English Dept. at WSU.
    Wheeee!

    Brock.  Thumbs up to you, bud.

    Gotta love the way Fox news checks its facts in order to provide fair and objective coverage. 

    Fox News.  Thumbs down to you guys.

  30. If you have any info on his inability to treat her case as he claims that would be more relevant than revealing he wasn’t really nominated for a Nobel prize.

    Prove he’s a fraud!  And then prove God doesn’t exist!

    extraordinary claims, Theo, extraordinary claims.

  31. So, let me get this straight:  while Bush was governor of Texas, he helped sign into law a bill that would allow hospitals to take patients off of ventilators and life support if they determined the case was hopeless, or they ran out of medicaid funding.  http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3079622

      The same Bush that wants to “err on the side of life”  signed for the execution of 154 prisoners—and considering how many death row felons have recently been found innocent with the advent of DNA testing—many of whom could have been innocent.

      But suddenly, he goes through all this trouble for one woman who neurologists agree (with the exception of one fundy doctor) is an irreversible vegetable?  What am I missing?

  32. THEOCRAT said: If you have any info on his inability to treat her case as he claims that would be more relevant than revealing he wasn’t really nominated for a Nobel prize.

    His treatments have been discussed on
    Quackwatch.

    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/tcd.html

    Any bets that if I keep looking I’ll find more reasons to believe the man’s mostly out to promote himself at Schiavo’s expense?

    The legitimacy of his Nobel prize nomination however has nothing to do with his ability to help Schiavo.

    I’d say Hammesfahr’s lack of honesty and reliability have much to say about his ethics and abilities.

    I just saw that link on another bulletin board and thought I would post it to bring some balance to nunyabiz’s stuff.

    Normally you shouldn’t try to balance unless your offer has equal weight but I’m glad you
    posted what you posted. I think it helped the discussion along.

  33. If you have any info on his inability to treat her case as he claims that would be more relevant than revealing he wasn’t really nominated for a Nobel prize.

    Hammesfahr was not allowed to examine Terri, but his assessment was a result of him “being in her proximity.” And, how long was that? Answer, “less than one hour.” If that doesn’t prove his inability to treat her case, “God didn’t make little green apples, and it doesn’t rain in Indianapolis in the summer time.” LOL

  34. According to the link Brock Hammesfahr isn’t so much a quack as he is just a doctor without enough evidence to support his theory.

    Originally posted by Brock:
    Normally you shouldn’t try to balance unless your offer has equal weight but I’m glad you
    posted what you posted. I think it helped the discussion along.

    Glad to help.  I’m not going to claim to know anything on this one, I don’t keep track of what is happening in the world outside what I see on this site, the bulletin board I frequent, and the few occasions I can catch an episode of the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.  All I can say is my preference is that she live if it can’t be determined that she willed to not be left on life saving equipment.  I really don’t care what the government does, if I did I would vote.

  35. Theocrat,
    Please see my post of 3/23/05 at 11:43PM. The reason the Federal Court and the Appeals Court and the Supreme Court have refused to act and reinsert the feeding tube is that Michael’s side has already proven that Terri did not want to live like a vegetable with “clear and convincing evidence,” all that the law requires (and that was NOT based solely on Michael’s testimony). The Constitution requires due process of law to take someone’s life, and that has been more than met in this case. The argument is not that the law isn’t on Michael’s side, it’s that “God” isn’t on Michael’s side. wink

  36. According to the link Brock Hammesfahr isn’t so much a quack as he is just a doctor without enough evidence to support his theory

    As in, he can’t provide any evidence at -all- that he’s actually helped anyone in a situation similar to Schiavo’s, despite his claim that he has actually done so in the past. 

      I guess he performed a few medical miracles and then just forgot the names of the patients that he had saved with his fantabulous method.

      Oh.  My mistake.  Johnathan Edwards, psychic extraordinaire, has assured us all that Mrs. Schiavo is actually still ‘aware’ of what’s going on around her.  With evidence like that, who needs doctors?

  37. The reason the Federal Court and the Appeals Court and the Supreme Court have refused to act and reinsert the feeding tube is that Michael’s side has already proven that Terri did not want to live like a vegetable with “clear and convincing evidence,

  38. I love how Theocrat shows up, tosses out an article that goes to great lengths to hype up Hammesfahr’s supposed Nobel nomination without offering any information about what his supposed treatment is that will help Schiavo recover and then challenges us to prove that his methods don’t work, all the while dismissing the fact that Hammesfahr is basically lying about his credentials in an attempt to appear authoritative.

    If we can’t trust the man to be honest about whether or not he’s one something as important as a Nobel prize then why should even begin to suspect he’s telling the truth about is supposed treatments?

    I thought you believers were supposed to value honesty? I guess it’s just another occasion where you’re willing to overlook a shortcoming such as that if it supports your point of view.

  39. What a sad story.  I can’t imagine the anguish Terry Schiavo’s parents are going through.  I can see why they would grasp at straws, hoping against hope that she might somehow be saved.  The politicians cashing in on this are scum, however.

    This reminds me of another case of the manipulation of hope, something Americans seem especially susceptible to: so-called “facilitated communication”, where severely mentally handicapped people sit at a computer keyboard and type astonishing stuff- with a “facilitator” gently nudging their hands.  What is really happening here, of course, is that the hand of the hapless patient is functioning as nothing more than the planchette of a ouija board, spelling out whatever the “facilitator” wants, consciously or unconsciously.  Here’s a good lowdown:

    http://www.skeptic.com/02.3.green-fc.html

    In Ms. Schiavo’s case, poor Terry is the planchette of a giant ouija board, shoved to and fro by the hopes and lusts of family, friends, religion, and politics.  Luckily for her, she seems oblivious to it all.  May she rest in peace, one way or another.

  40. You’ve put it just right, zilch.  Terri’s parents are desperate to prove that she’s responsive—and people see what they want to see in random actions.  Notice that the photo of her that is published most often is posed so that it looks like she’s cheek-to-cheek with her mother, with an expression of bliss on her face.  Talk about heartstring pulling.  And apparently the videos her parents took were carefully edited to show only those actions that looked like real responses.

    Considering that her family members testified that even if Terri HAD told them she wanted her feeding tube removed, they still wouldn’t do it, I don’t think we can trust anything they say.

    Terri’s situation has been staged over and over again in the news to make her look like less than a vegetable.  Her parents are calling the multiple rulings against them “judicial homicide.”  One man has been arrested for trying to put a bounty on the murder of Michael Schiavo and Judge Greer.  This whole thing is getting completely out of control thanks to the irrational hysteria of right-to-life groups.

    No one seems to be willing to entertain the notion (the evidence for which, when presented to the court, was judged “clear and convincing”) that Terri really meant what she said, and that she deserves to have her wishes respected.  This is the sort of thing that I see way too often in right-to-life cases:  they conveniently ignore or negate the wishes of the woman involved.  Would people be reacting like this if it were a man in the bed?  I somehow don’t think so.

  41. Originally posted by Les:
    I love how Theocrat shows up, tosses out an article that goes to great lengths to hype up Hammesfahr’s supposed Nobel nomination without offering any information about what his supposed treatment is that will help Schiavo recover and then challenges us to prove that his methods don’t work, all the while dismissing the fact that Hammesfahr is basically lying about his credentials in an attempt to appear authoritative.

    If we can’t trust the man to be honest about whether or not he’s one something as important as a Nobel prize then why should even begin to suspect he’s telling the truth about is supposed treatments?

    I thought you believers were supposed to value honesty? I guess it’s just another occasion where you’re willing to overlook a shortcoming such as that if it supports your point of view.

    Honestly, what does it take for me to convey that I am mostly ignorant to the situation?  I don’t watch the news I can only repeat what I see on this site and my other BB.  I honestly believed you all probably already were on top of things with your very enlightened opinions.  But when I watch this thread all I see is very little actual info because you all are agreeing with each others opinions to begin with so little actual evidence for your opinions is presented.  You all have proved many times how intelligent you are, but it seems that the evidence of your intelligence has to be dragged out of you through someone challenging you with their ignorance.  So I’m going to keep challenging until I get as much of the entire truth out of you that I can since it would take me forever to trace your logic through Google searches.

    Now from my reading of Dr. Hammesfahr through the lifenews article and the link Brock posted, Hammesfahr never claimed to be nominated for a Nobel prize.  There was a headline listing him as Nobel prize nominated, but that doesn’t convey to me he promotes himself ignorantly.

    Further the article Brock posted is more than five years old.  Dr. Hammesfahr has not stopped doing his prcedures since then to my (limited) knowledge so the lack of evidence it claims may have been justified then, but likely is certainly not a fair representation of the facts as they stand now.

    If it’s been proven “A DOZEN TIMES!” that Schiavo’s wishes were really that she didn’t want to be kept alive then I really don’t have a problem with someone trying to honor those wishes.  The last thing I want is someone’s ability to choose taken from them.

    Finally while I may be intellectually lazy don’t discredit me as intellectually dishonest as well.  I am making my opinions based on the facts I have seen.  It can’t be expected that I’m going to have a very informed opinion if I don’t even know where to find the facts.  On that note, back to antagonizing you all.  tongue wink

  42. Here is some more information, (Real unbiased info) not the pure shit being spewed by the Religious Reich propaganda machine.

    http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf

    http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

    http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf

    Any alleged Neurologist that can look at the CAT scan here:

    The CT scan is very clear, if you can tell the difference between a freshly plowed 100 acre field and one with 100 acres of corn growing on it, then you can read the CT scan.
    http://www.amptoons.com/blog/images/schiavo_ct_scan.jpg

    It just doesn’t get any plainer than this.

    then make the absurd claim that they can help her regain consciousness, speech, eating drinking, basically ANYTHING whatsoever as far as rehab, is an absolute Charlatan and should have his license revoked immediately.

    The parents are disgusting, they have demonized this poor man, called him a murderer, made him in some wife beating Monster and all these LIES told on a Global Stage, all based entirely on Religious Reich bald faced LIES.
    They are utterly disgusting, they sicken me to the very core of my being for what they have done to this poor man.

    Michael Schaivo is the ONLY one that has done ANYTHING for his wife, HE is the one that got medical opinions, not just a 2nd opinion but 20+ opinions, HE is the one that after exhausting all known therapy took her to Calif. to have experimental brain surgery performed as a last resort, HE is the one that even went to nursing school in order to learn to take proper care for her IF that were to become necessary, HE was the one that took the doctors/hospital to court once malpractice was found out in order to get money to make sure Terri had the best of care, that money was placed into a Trust Fund FOR Terri with the Bank as Trustee and every penny has been accounted for (currently about $32,000 left in it).
    Now HE is the one that is trying to see to it that his wife’s wishes are carried out, and during the entire 15 years HE is the one that has been by her side the most has visited her FAR more than the parents have.

    These abhorrent parents started this whole thing because Michael Schiavo would not give them 1/2 of the money that HE received from his court case.
    All this bullshit over $150,000 that they were not entitled to.
    They told him at that point “We will make your life a living hell” this is the ONE thing they have done in this whole fiasco, totally demonized an innocent man whom has been nothing short of Heroic in his effort to help his wife.

    These delusional psychotics backed ONLY by the Religious Reich are VILE and should be incarcerated.

  43. THEOCRAT said: Now from my reading of Dr. Hammesfahr through the lifenews article and the link Brock posted, Hammesfahr never claimed to be nominated for a Nobel prize.  There was a headline listing him as Nobel prize nominated, but that doesn’t convey to me he promotes himself ignorantly.

    DR. Hammesfahr’s official website does exactly that.

    Dr. Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize for his work in Medicine and Physiology in 1999.  The Nomination was for work started in 1994.

    “God Leaves No One Behind” is the HAMMESFAHR NEUROLOGICAL INSTITUTE’s mission statement and apparently Hammesfahr himself leaves no one named Terri Schiavo behind.

    If he had been nominated and lost, he would not know for fifty years because nominations are kept confidential that long. Hammesfahr is depending on the gullibility of those such as yourself to accept what he says is true and he’s only fooled those “mostly ignorant to the situation”.

    If you want more recent information on the efficacy of Hammesfahr’s radical treatments, be aware that in 2003 the Florida Department of Health found him guilty of charges brought against him. He’s been heavily fined ($52,000) in the past and placed on probation more recently.

    The list of penalties he was forced to submit to is long, but among them was a revocation of his license to practice medicine until such time as he was placed under the monitoring/supervision of a fully licensed practicing physician approved by the State of Florida’s Board of Medicine Probationer Committee.

    http://uschatter.com/index.php?p=194

    http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/FinalOrders/03-17-03/DOH-03-0182.pdf

    I understand that you can justify ignorance of issues and feel OK with doing so little research, but perhaps you leave too much of life’s mysteries to be accepted through faith alone.

    I’ve shown you that Hammesfahr is a liar. What other situations should we look at together afresh?

  44. While it’s generally accepted that Terri Schiavo is in a permanent vegetative State, that’s the first time I’ve heard Florida called that. I know there are lots of old retirees there but isn’t that rather an extreme reference?

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