My brother receives Jesus Prayer Rug scam.


The prayer rug.


The sales pitch.

My brother contacted me through MSN Messenger last night to tell me about this amazing item he had received in the mail yesterday from the fine folks at Saint Matthew’s Church out of Tulsa, Oklahoma that just sounded amazingly wonderfully amazing: The Anointed Jesus Prayer Rug.

Now most of you don’t know my brother, but he’s largely responsible for my education in evilness and the darker side of my sense of humor is a result of his influence over the years, which is a fact I’m sure he’s quite proud of. This makes it perfectly understandable that someone out there might see him as a soul in desperate need of saving, but it turns out that’s not what this amazingly wonderfully amazing bit of mail was all about. No, the mail assumes that Wes is already saved and it offers to help bring the Lord’s blessing down upon him and his family. In particular, the mailing makes a point of emphasizing the idea that the Lord will grant him a financial blessing. All through the amazingly wonderfully amazing power of the Anointed Jesus Prayer Rug. As a bonus the rug itself will perform a minor miracle to prove its authenticity:

Notice the face of Jesus on this Church Prayer Rug. When you first look, you will notice that His eyes are closed. If you relax and continue looking straight into His eyes, you will see His eyes slowly opening, and He will begin looking back at you. Jesus sees your needs (Philippians 4:19). Use this unusual, important, Church Prayer Rug for tonight only.

Let us ask you: Would you like to have God’s blessings upon Your home, your family and your finances? Say, “Yes, Lord Jesus, I do need Your financial blessings upon me and my family’s finances!” Deuteronomy 28:6 Just put a mark (√) by your needs below, telling us that you want prayer. Also, check any other needs you are facing. Pray about sowing a seed gift to the Lord’s work. Give God your best seed and believe Him for His best blessing (St. Luke 6:38). Now, go and use this Church, Faith, Prayer Rug. The Lord is watching and waiting. You are about to enter the Holy Spirit of God right here in your home, through this faith exercise. Then, it is a must that you return it for another to use.

You can see part of the sales pitch by clicking on the image to the right underneath the amazingly wonderfully amazing Anointed Jesus Prayer Rug. As it turns out this whole thing is another religious based scam that promises the overly credulous true believers riches from God in return for a little “seed money” for Saint Mathew’s Churches, which only exist in the form of a Tulsa post office box, natch. The only person getting rich from this scam is the Rev. James Eugene Ewing who seems to have built up quite a racket with this and other similar scams to the tune of several hundred million dollars:

The approach reaped Ewing and his organization a gross income of more than $100 million since 1993, including $26 million in 1999, the last year Saint Matthew’s made its tax records public. And while much of the money is spent on postage and salaries, Ewing’s company receives nonprofit status and pays no federal taxes.

Though Ewing claims it is a church, Saint Matthew’s Churches, once called St. Matthew Publishing Inc., has no address other than a Tulsa post office box. It has two listed phone numbers in Tulsa and both are answered by a recorded religious message.

The organization is not related to other Tulsa-area churches named St. Matthew’s, though many of them have received calls asking to be removed from its mailing list.

Ole Anthony, founder of the Trinity Foundation, a nonprofit religious watchdog group, has tracked Ewing’s organization for years. The foundation was largely responsible for exposing televangelist Robert Tilton in 1991 after Anthony said he found prayer requests sent to Tilton in Tulsa trash Dumpsters.

Doing a Google search for Jesus Prayer Rug will reveal that a lot of people have written about this scam including our friends over at Chaotic Not Random as well as Ryan Cragun who handily provides a PDF of the complete mailing that he scanned in. This mailing and others like it are sent out at an estimated rate of 1 million a month and are aimed mainly at the hardcore true believers who are poor, uneducated, and most vulnerable to promises of financial reward for a demonstration of faith. The mailing includes a story about a woman who received a $46,000 windfall and another of someone receiving $10,000 after using the prayer rug. Gee, that God Guy sure is generous!

At the time, Tilton and Ewing shared the same Tulsa attorney, J.C. Joyce. Saint Matthew’s Churches is incorporated at Joyce’s downtown Tulsa law office and the organization paid Joyce’s law firm more than $2.6 million for legal services during three years, records show.

Anthony has also obtained documents that describe how Ewing and his organization use demographic data to target the poor.

‘He capitalizes on the isolation of the loneliest and poorest members of our society, promising them magical answers to their fears and needs if only they will demonstrate their faith by sending him money,’ Anthony said.

‘He is, quite literally, the father of the modern-day ‘seed-faith’ concept that fuels the multibillion-dollar Christian industry known as the ‘health-and-wealth gospel.’—Religion in America:  ‘St. Matthew’s Churches’ Mail Ministry is Highly Lucrative

It’s hard to say how illegal this sort of scam might be. While recipients are encouraged to send in money in return for the blessings promised in the mailing, there’s nothing that states it as a requirement so it’s technically not selling you anything other than a false hope. My cynical side says this is what you get when you buy into a concept as ridiculous as Gods and that those folks who are fleeced by it deserve the pain they’re bringing on themselves for being so credulous, but my sense of fair play also seeks to see people like the “good” Reverend here strung up by his testicles for taking advantage of the willfully stupid in the population.

It doesn’t take much cleverness to fleece folks who will believe wholesale in the idea of a Virgin Birth and who put more stock into Genesis than Evolution and that’s the biggest crime Christianity has visited upon so many of its believers. Some of you folks truly are like sheep and you’re just as defenseless when the wolves like Rev. James Eugene Ewing put on sheep’s clothing and come prowling around.

259 thoughts on “My brother receives Jesus Prayer Rug scam.

  1. It’s a slow morning…

    (Aa)I’m not saying you ought to believe in God, but I think its pretty obnoxious to act like it’s irrational.

    People acquire god belief for many different reasons. Some are indoctrinated into it from childhood, for others it’s a conscious choice, some are satisfied with a superficial “answer” that is of great concern to them. Some assert a different type of knowledge, others rationalize their beliefs.

    In short, god belief is irrational in some way, shape, or form.

    The idea of God has existed for as long as Man has.

    What DOF said. Monotheistic religions with their Biggest Swinging Deity contests are fairly new and predated by polytheistic religions, which are predated by more elementary form of spiritual beliefs. Our species has always preferred to make things up as we go rather than plead ignorance.

    You can explain away God all you want with science,

    Science lends no support whatsoever to religious beliefs in general and the Christian deity in particular. On the other hand, science explains the appeal of the religious meme.

    So why is it so offensive to you to believe in a God,

    It’s not offensive if somebody believes in some deity or other. What they use this belief for can be more than offensive, though.

    and if there is a God, why is it so irrational to believe that he could do miracles, or cause things to happen in ways we don’t understand?

    Let me rephrase it: If god belief is irrational in the first place, then so is the belief in the so-called miracles.

    It seems so arrogant to me that you think you’ve evolved past religion so far as to compare simple faith with being desperate and simple-minded enough to be duped by a blinking rug addressed to “resident”.

    I haven’t heard anybody here claim to have evolved past religion. It’s just that we’re not buying what the religious are selling. And most of the posters here can make the distinction between simple faith and the terminally gullible.

  2. Quoting elwed:

    Science lends no support whatsoever to religious beliefs in general

    True, doen’t prove or disprove. There is a limit as to what science can uncover, you may hit a point where you don’t have a way of tracing back further (i.e. what makes the smallest unit of matter, what makes that?), also you may not be able to vary a certain condition to fully test a property, i.e. you can’t experimentally make time run backwards and there is not necessarily symmetry if you did. Also the most fundamental rules of science themselves need a reason to be, either that or the multiverse idea of “they are because they’re possible, and there’s an infinite number of opertunities for it to be the case if there’s an infinite number of universes”

    Anyway making profit out of the gullible sounds quite easy and attractive, reminds me of a certain Dilbert episode (I like the cynical nature)

  3. elwed:

    They do?

    Science is driven by asking why something’s the case and not being satisfied with an answer as a termination point if it’s not self-justifying, otherwise it would not be much better than an advanced religion. If science is to be able to completely explain the universe by itself we need a complete theory.

    If there was no reason for the fundamental laws to exist, i doubt nature would go to the effort of obeying them exactly to the same extent, you would at least expect it to be obeyed to a random extent due to entropy (an inescapabe statistical effect)

    The rules could be arbitary with a possibility of existing as they are, and with a possibly infinite number of universes their existence could be guaranteed. You can’t quantify the probability but
    any positive value*infinity=infintity

    Nethertheless if the laws of physics were interdependant – and could only exist because of each other and all formed simultaneously, we set up a kind of cyclic dependance and remove the termination point. It would seem impossible to find interdependance as you can’t turn off or tune down a law of physics directly. The idea of god would be an unacceptable termination point which again couldn’t be backtracked, unless god was also fed into interdependance and could only exist simultaneously with the laws of physics.

    I wonder if it’s possible to backtrack past a cyclic dependance? Maybe it formed arbitarily, maybe there is other things that depends on, it’s possible to depend on something that isn’t real, just as maths can use imaginary numbers for some purposes

  4. Aa writes:

    we exist

    True.

    the universe exists

    True.

    and evidently, it [the universe] didn’t always

    Not necessarily true.

    So why is it so offensive to you to believe in a God

    Belief in a god or gods does not offend me. I myself am on the fence regarding whether or not I believe in a higher power. It is the insistence by True Believers that an unwavering belief in god is rational, given what we as a species currently know, that offends me.

  5. DC, I disagree with you—if only because I dislike the loaded term reason. You seem to conflate the pursuit of science and the philosophy of it, but it takes more time than I have to dissect your posts wink

  6. I admit i’m not summarised, i think on tangents and try to be complete

    The main point:
    the rules could be arbitary and exist, the probability of the physical constants of these laws having values the values they do is low for one universe but with a possible infinite multiverse it’s guaranteed to take that value in some cases. an imaginary multiverse automatically exists using imaginary dimensions just because it can
    this theory has the problem of justifying the constantness of constants in all situations

  7. Don’t buy into this scam. Mr. Ewing and St. Matthew’s Churches don’t need your hard earned money!!!!
    He and his wife wear expensive suits, have expensive purses, shoes, private drivers, and an apartment on 5th avenue. Keep your money. Give it to a REAL charity.

  8. I, your Lord High Arch Pope, offer you a Les prayer wallpaper.  Merely use your mystical pointer device to right click on his picture, and select “Set as Background”, and as proof of His Love he will appear on your VDU.

  9. long face Got one of these in the mail today….very weird.  The “prayer rug” is actually “prayer paper”…not a rug at all.  They demand that you send the “rug” back within 24 hours so it can help others…….I guess help others send in money.  This scam is just sick.  I’m torn as to what to do with the creepy Jesus though….I like everyone’s ideas about sending back heavy stuff…..very clever.

  10. shut eye I received one of these dohickies a long time ago and when i told them not to mail me again they sent me three of them!! and then when i tossed the image for it is just wrong to print jesus (peace be upon him) in order to make a profet (yes it was on top of the trash bags i was like 6 months preg and i wasnt gonna shove it under that stinky garbage i had had enough mornin sickness already that day) apparently some of the local do gooders saw this and during the next week i got pamplets of the evils of those that do no tturn to jesus (peace be upon him) for salvation. i eve got an “evilness of the pagans” pamplet that highlighted islam as a pagan religion and said a few bad things bout mormons!! hey dont we worship the same god? and then the following few months i received like 6 of these things!! until i printed out a few laws that alowed me to sue the pants off of them and wrote a nice letter that basically said “i dont need to be saved i am happy where i am at, go bug someone else” on the back of the pratyer rug (bet they loved that)and placed the other 5 packages with various remarks in with it and sent them back!! (i politely told them where they could shove their hypocratic leters) and i never saw another one of those things again!! i would tell yall what i did to some jahovahs witnesses that kept comeing back almost everyday for 2 weeks!! but this is a prayer rug issue (which of course is an insult on muslims to have a face of the prophet jesus 9peace be upon him) on a purple paper rug just so someone can use it to scam people out of their hard earned money!!) i say we all get together and write a well thought out letter asking them for a large amount of money and print it off and then stuff it into those letters or print them off and send them bulk mail to this person!! individually stuffed of course!! see how they like it!
    helema

  11. Holy Crap! Whenever I lived in Tennessee about 3 years ago we got that in the mail, then whenever we moved down here to Florida we got it again.

    I was pretty shocked whenever we got it again, because it was reported about a lot on one of the news channels in Tennessee. Plus I never thought one scam could get this big. lol

    ily
    -Genni.

  12. i would tell yall what i did to some jahovahs witnesses that kept comeing back almost everyday for 2 weeks!!

    My mum scares Jehova’s Witnesses. She invites them in for a chat.  Hind Legs. Donkey

  13. I just got the rug. Desperate times actually.  Well, so I wrote back, yesterday, enclosing the rug, as follows:

    My prayer (below in bold) dear Lord, is based upon:

    Dear Lord,

    Let me mince words today, but make it perfectly clear. You know I
    write.

    You know I have written about 1300-plus pages, single space lines in the last 4 years in the 2 civil cases against county, city, state government for violation of my speech amendment. One case is a suit for wrongful SWAT arrest and trauma incurred when they alleged I “threatened” a police officer with mere words (if such is even possible) by a random posting in a web forum Apr. 4, 2004 (oh four). You know I have been enslaved against my will, writing all this (cases) on a forced anachronsim computer: 133MHZ; 1 1/2 GB harddrive; 32MB Ram. (After they stole my “mainframes,” not returned to date, they had overlooked my runt-runt starter computer in a clean garbage sack in the corner, which I hoped I would never have to use again.) You know I have been crucified on this machine now for 4 years daily, Saturdays and Sundays and holidays included, trying to keep up because of what it is, and because my health has never been normal in well over a decade.

    You know I have not eaten a square meal in 35-plus years, and that my new computer they stole, but a year old at the time in 2004, was something I finally had found I could live for.

    You know the court’s dally is killing me outright.

    You know they lost their first speech case (posting in a web forum)
    against me after dragging me through the courts for over 2 years.

    You know they initiated another speech case against me 2 weeks before I even knew I would get the acquittal on the web forum posting-case, alleging this time I had illegally used mere words against another certain policeman, by saying something on his anwering machine.

    You know they have defaced me physically down through the years now. You know I have been enslaved against my will. You know I call them Judas; You know I call this subjugation, since long ago, “a little american made Battaan residence march”; You know they have long since broken what I was, and they could ever, ever care less. You know I have been remote-matrixed, butched, extracted of my soul and spit upon by Satan and his county, city, state government. The federal government has not intervened, either.

    You know that the 2 cases I have initiated against the Satan-county, city, state governments in San Francisco and Oakland federal court
    (C07 0113 SBA; now in appeal by me, plaintiff, as 07-16966; and case C07 5816 EMC; latter is San Fran.) both demand awards, recompense, which I have promised before the court…I will give all of it to the poor. The 0113 demands 1360 million for violation of me and extreme persecution and life-gone, ripped out,  for speaking in this country. Because they didn’t put a stop to that first amendment stuff, the second, come along later in sequence, also a first amendment violation-case,  demands 7 billion, plus 10 million a day (they were put on notice of this) since May 22, 2007 for every day they don’t return me my life and possessions with the demanded recompense for having, through their ignorance of the computer age and other reasons, ripped out my life for these lengths.
    ___________________

    MY PRAYER:

    My prayer is the immediate asked award in these cases, as in the previous paragraph, made real; my prayer is that I will give it to the poor; my prayer is the courts will immediately, sooner than all present calendar, (which court “calendars” I call a malinger of beguile, an exhibit of Satan’s cornerstoned atrocities against my house and soul, which break my spirit by the seconds yearly in extreme anguish and loss)—my prayer is that they will, with Your angry whip of righteousness upon them, sooner than ANY calendar, return my life and possessions, and make the exact recompense;  my prayer is that “Judas/Satan” and his courts, cops, prosecutors, judges will become a closed door immediately on these first amendment matters they/he came to infest and parasite upon me with, unmercifully nearly half a decade ago now, not letting me move about or be released from to date, that I may resume my former life, and remember them no more as torturers of me;  my prayer is that You will allow, dear Lord, of the full and exact award which they shall pay, for me to give from it 2 million-each, to a 2 certain world-traveled English teachers I met on the web who wrote letters on my behalf during the web-posting indictment-case (before acquittal), which letters I did include as exhibits in my appeal I won shortly later; my prayer, and promise,  Lord…is that every penny of the rest, in Your name or whatever,  shall go to the poor.

    You know that I have never prayed before; but, the broken have nothing to lose.

    I know, may You know that I know, that You don’t need the money, for proper definition of You is that You have the world. Well…if there’s anything I can do to repay You for my prayer, dear Lord, let it be but…that I didn’t spend it on myself, that I gave it to the poor—that I never will spend a penny upon myself, and You may heartily set any monitor upon me for every length to ensure this, accounts, statements, ANYTHING—let it be that I gave it to the poor, every single penny.

    May I have this “transaction,” this prayer with You, dear Lord? They have been so evil to me…I cannot go on….

    I ask this truly, in Your name. Though all I will have owed You, is that I give it to the poor, You can rest assured, I may marvel once more….
    __________________
    __________________
    But then, 1 day after, as follows, I pulled up the 2 Tulsa addresses, (prayer by letters
    saint matthew’s churches
    P.O. Box 21210 Tulsa OK 74121-9938; and Prayer
    Box 3036 Tulsa, OK 74101-3036), and just slammed them to hell with this:

    I SENT IN MY PRAYER RUG YESTERDAY AFTERNOON,
    JAN. 4, 2008, WITH A 3 PAGE PRAYER REQUEST LETTER:

    God must die and get out of the universe for beguiling me, for that same evening a bad storm arose, and god wrecked part of my old fence and gate with it. Is THIS how the shitmouth God answers my prayer?! He knows my health and Satan’s “legal” matters distracting me (C07 0113 SBA and its appeal 07-16966; also, C07 5816 EMC, as I posted in my Jan. 4th pray-rug send in) have massively already brought ruin to the wood in my house…because the distraction forced me to neglect it…all against my will. That shitmouth god DARES go against my will at this point with more of this sample….

    I have beaten God through the ages; I have had more patience, because of more denial, and this across time, than he shall ever know.

    I’m done “praying” to that shitmouth imp, God. Get him out of the universe, out of my house and temple. If for any reason your organization causes my Jan. 4 prayer to come true, I disown and kill what I said in it. I will, instead, BURN IN A BURN BARREL any awards given by the court, NOT give it to the poor. That shitmouth god is not sufficiently right with anyone here.

    Your “god” is a vermin imp-parasite-infest-maker-gypster-pilferer…ad infinitum.

    Worship me when I slaughter you, shitmouth God! for good! W’e’ve smelled enough of your imp-kind. Go and die.

    You christians worship me when I slaughter you; for good. Get out and die.
    ________________
    Yeah, so much for “god,” and his shitmouth gospel.

    I do believe Ewing’s church has certain sincerety; they’ve got pics of very typical church halls filled. But god I will never credit for being more than a dead f*ck, bowed to his grave in front of me.

  14. You know, I saw quite a bit of the “scam” screaming on the net pertaining to the St. Matthew’s Prayer Rug, and what have you, mailing operations.

    Not one damn f*cker is digging a little about the many so and so’s among St. Matthew’s testimonies saying “I got $8,000 blah blah.” There are tons of these.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if James Eugene Ewing played the offering’s Robin Hood in most or all of these. Nobody has even thought to question or check it before calling him out as a “Ken Lay.”

    Shit-merica the fallen, as usual on that one….

    What would stop him from evaluating (prayer-request) cases, and rerouting money to people he truly believed were needy? Why..the..damn..hell..haven’t..you..twerps even mentioned this possibility in all this scam screeching? Check it out you STUPID EVIL hasty-accusing sh*t-merican BASTARDS!

    We need muzzles for the sh*t-merican government in here! They accuse like Stan (I call ‘im dat).

  15. I got my jesus rug last week.  I wished for 1 million dollars and rubbed his crotch.  Still waiting for my wish to come true.  I wonder, do I get three like with Aladin?  If so I wish Ewing dead and all other religious zealots, including your president, to a life in a bed of elephant dung and leeches.  Jesus is on my shower tile, I wish it was Wayne Gretzky instead.  All hail Wayne.  Look for your Gretzky prayer rug in the mail from my nonprofit ‘religion’ soon.

  16. I received a paper rug yesterday.  I thought it was funny, in a way, just another example of how disgustingly evil some people are to dream up crap like this.  Fraud and scam are ubiquitous.  The rug is no worse, however, than all the other junk in my mail box, attempts to get me to sign up for credit cards or spend the equity in my home on a trip around the world.  America has lost its soul.  What do you expect, though, when we have a president who has told 935 documented lies to the public since 9/11 in order to invade a sovereign country, the upshot of which has so far caused the death of at least half a million people and destroyed a country?  Ewing lives in a huge house in Beverly Hills and Bush lives in a huge house in Wn DC.  There’s not much difference between them.

  17. what about that scam Kars 4 Kids?  fuck them.  lets all unite against scammers and spammers and kill em all

  18. I just recieved one of these from prayer by letter my just for spite was to send it back to them just as they sent it to me. This month I did the same as I recieved two pennies.. I kept the pennies and sent the same back, next month if I get some I am gonna send them the coupons I don’t want for charity wink

  19. So i’m from California and i get these letters like all the time. I’m Sorry But God does not want me to put shit in my pants and send money to a RETARDED CHURCH down in hillbilly world OKAY… You could take that Fuckin carpet crap and shove it up Your ASS!!!!!!!!! and make money like the rest of us americans do.

  20. My names are Momodu Michael Onoshioze from Nigeria.Am prayin for a good job, Healing of mind and body,spiritual upliftment on me and my family and also breakthrough in all my heart desires ,Gods protection in Jesus name

  21. The Jesus in the rug did not open his eyes for me.  But a while back The Incredible Winking Jesus did wink at me and my goldfish died so now I don’t know what to think.

  22. dear friend,
            believe in god, see yeshu kristhu(jesus christ) in your heart, you can see him in your heart,why should statues and pictures come between us, more over we have been restricted to not pray in front of pictures and statues it is a great Sin.
    if my words hurt’s you i am sorry, Your belief will save you my brother,God Bless You

  23. Why people gotta come on here telling us to embrace jesus? this is about a scam and i agree with a poster above jesus was middle eastern and is respected by all but umm why people gotta use jesus to make money? this is just wrong!! and yes im muslim but i aitn gonna tell others how to worship like certain bible beaters do!!

  24. That’s what they believe they have to do according to their invisible sky fairy, Helema. Some of them even seem genuinely concerned. Not all, but some.

  25. That’s what they believe they have to do according to their invisible sky fairy, Helema. Some of them even seem genuinely concerned. Not all, but some.

    LoL or mabey they think a book that was chopped up over the centuries and editted to make it “sound” better is the only one there is? i mean comeon they are knockin on my door and telling me to “embrace the light and the lord jesus” to save my soul….im with the other sister on here im happy where i am and next time i might write a “jesus save me from your followers” or “save me from the scammers” in it then toss several religions pamplets into that envelope and see how they feel getting a bunch of mail with religious stuff in it!! let them read about islam…..

  26. I’m so, glad that we listen to the Holy Spirit today, we have been getting this bunch of trash in my mail box that, that we started praying with my family an we really thought that it’s sound very familier, like Robert Tilton. we had sent him money which it has been in the 80’s, and we never had our prayer ans. But now we know that this monsters that don’t work BUT!! like to take the senior’s money, will come out to light.we don’t understand how this eviel mosters lay thier head on the pillow at night when they go to sleep.we have recieved white cloth with a drawing of a heart,to sleep with it and sent it back as soon as next day so, we can have our blessing’s. we, here we were quick to the draw………found them in the computer, and LoL..we are believers in All Might God, sence’s the 40’s centery.Thank God for this Watchdog.Love from Tex.

  27. Pingback: Daylight Atheism > The Catholic Church Asks Me for Money

  28. You can see the pupils of Jesus’s eyes in the printed material. Some poor schmuck is going to see what is on the printed material and think it is a miracle. I have no room in my life for people who take advantage of the stupid via religion.
    My great grandmother ate dog food because she sent ALL of her money and social security check to Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggert. If you gave her money for food or he heat bill she would send that also to Oral Roberts. She was old and it was her money to do with what she pleased but it was really sad.

  29. I just got mine in the mail too and Jesus didn’t open his eyes for me! I think I’m going to mail it back in the postage paid envelope telling them I’m sorry but my dog pooped on it.

  30. This is the same scam, pictures, wording and the same picture of a lady who won $46,000.00 that circulated back in the 1960’s.

    It is a shame what people do in the name of God, Christ or religion to each other.

    Between the televangelist today and the on demand preachers promising everything you want if you only give. I can see why there is so much mistrust and none to little belief.

    This so called church is a blight on everyone.
    Has always been and so it will be. As long as there are people who out of desperation give money to them.

    I have heard of people sending the return envelope back, which is postage paid by Matthew’s Church. Firmly wrapped around a brick. I understand the church must pay first class postage for the return. It is postage guaranteed. I look at it as helping to build their new building they need. No fraud intended. Give what you can.

  31. I got it today. I did beleive it! and did what it said all the way up to putting it in the bible. then after that I got on the internet and looked it up. and I took the seed money and a donation request and not something that was requiered like in real church. but one good thing that did happen was I realized I need to get closer to God and go back to church and pray more.

  32. I got up to Dec 7 2006 and finally had to stop. Only bc I had to go and get more lick her. This has been the most hilarious so far, I’m gonna bookmark and come and read the rest. You wouldn’t believe how many times I wanted to hit reply/quote, but there was just so much to read. I got mine today 4/16/12, I’m behind the game, but am going to send the image to mom framed, with the bottom cut off. I also saw in the letter I could pray to be saved.

    What I did see is that your original post was spot on. I’m in a low income zip code and the response from the zealots did reveal a true lack of education and use of grammar and spelling. I hope you didn’t ban Rose, as I will have to catch up on this tomorrow. But for now, getting my drink on, bought the beggar at the liquor store some small bottles, as my way of paying it forward. Les, you made my day.

  33. A … A hundred million dollars?!?!

    Fascinating history. I just got one of these in the mail today. It’s word-for-word identical; the only thing that has changed are the numbers beside the word “Copyright”. They’re up to six digits now, almost 120000. Each piece of paper has its own number in sequential order, with the exception of the “rug” which was in the low-80000s. On the envelope (with a 6-digit number) is a barcode, with an 10-digit number, and a two-alpha-6-numeric (the 6-numeric appears to be a year/month in the form AA2012MM, but the two alphabetical characters don’t correspond to anything obvious.)

    Portions of the 10-digit number corresponds to the string of digits above the snail-mail address that appeared in the window envelope, so presumably the numbers beneath the barcode on the back of the envelope can be used to quickly identify which individuals have fallen for the scam and add them to suckers’ lists. Or target them for harassment.

    I’m not part of the target demographic, nor is anyone I know – first time I’ve gotten a hardcopy scam in junk mail in more than a decade – but like lovesclutter up there a couple of days ago, there are large segments of the target demographic (gullible seniors, etc) in my ZIP code.

  34. I believe there is something much larger than us when we pass on, perhaps awakening to a room full of highly intellegent beings that are your friends, all laughing and going “man, I cannot believe some of the stuff you did”…..followed up by…”but at least you were smart enough not to fall for the prayer rug scam!”

  35. Ugh.. I fell prey to this scam, just a few weeks ago.. Sadly I sent them three dollars. That was all I could spare. But if these con-artists are preying on the poor what can they expect to get from them? And how do they know that I am a poor christian? Funny thing is I get scams by e-mail all the time, from people that want to leave me millions of dollars, for various reasons. Am I a brainless victim? I think not. However, I am a compassionate human being.
    I just tell em (on line of course) I will pray for you.

  36. I have received two more of these prayer rugs since my last post. Seems that the zip code
    87105 is in the very low rent listings. I think it is getting time to play some games with
    this fake church.

  37. Less,
    YOUR INFORMATION IS DISSAPOINTING AND SO ARE YOU. I HOPE YOU GO TO THE BEACH, OR HELP A STRANGER, OR WATCH A SUNSET WITH A WOMAN, OR DO WHATEVER IT IS YOU LIKE TO DO TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOURSELF SO THAT YOU MAY STOP HURTING PEOPLE WITH YOU MISINFORMED AND OPIONS. HOW OLD ARE YOU AND DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN?

  38. Mandi, before I say anything else, would you be so kind as to turn off your caps lock? Typing in all caps make you look a little crazy. It makes me think you’re shouting at your monitor with little flecks of spittle spurting from your mouth.

    Oh, and there’s only one S in Les.

    Now then, allow me to admit that the information is a little disappointing to me as well. Imagine if you could randomly receive a magic “rug” in the mail that when you wish for a whole lot of money (for purely altruistic reasons, of course) would suddenly change before your eyes and a few days later bundles of cash would show up in your hands. That’d be awesome! Which is why the fact that this doesn’t work is so disappointing indeed.

    As for what I do to feel better about myself. Well, it includes many of the things you suggest as well as playing video games where I virtually shoot people in the face. Real people who are also playing the game at the same time. Isn’t modern technology wonderful? It allows us to commit virtual murder on a scale that would make Stalin blush and yet no one is harmed in any way (other than, perhaps, their egos).

    I’m curious, though, on how you think my opinions are misinformed and are hurting anyone. I’m warning people about a scam that they could lose serious money to if they were to believe it were true. I would think that would help people, not hurt them. Are suggesting that this is not a scam and it really works? Can you offer anything in the way of evidence if so?

    If you look at the upper right hand part of this page under my photo you’ll see I’m 43 years old. Oops! That’s wrong, I’m actually 44. Need to fix that before I turn 45 in August. I also have one daughter (though it doesn’t say that above, you could find out by searching the archives). Is my age and whether I have a child or not in some way relevant to your assertion that I’m hurting people? I look forward to your reply.

  39. LesS,
    I did randomly receive this rug. How this man knew my address I have no clue seeing that I just purchased my home three weeks prier to recieving it. I am a firm believer, I am a 27 yr old single mother of a 5 year old beautiful little girl and a 3 year old little boy in which both are gifts from God. I assume in your eyes I am one of “those folks who are fleeced by it and deserve the pain they’re bringing on themselves for being so credulous”. AS Anthony states I must be one of the loneliest and poorest members of our society as well, which is false.
    The reason I said not only is this information disapointing but you are as well, bc you say you cared enough about “us” the victims of this scam to inform us of the cruel details of this so called church, however Not all of it is bad. I sent in three dollars with a note about a 4 year old who used his Dads work gun and accidentally shot hisself. I DID NOT ASK FOR ANY MONEY IN RETURN ONLY A SIMPLE PRAYER. A TRUE BELIEVER OF CHRIST WOULD KNOW NOT TO ASK FOR MONEY IN RETURN. This man knows that we are not rich HOW? Knows we are firm believers HOW? so he also knows that we do not have any extra money. I assure you most of the victims sent in spare change which only covered the cost of the postage and the paper in which the rug was made. HOWEVER, YOU HAVE FAILED TO INCLUED THE BOOK YOU RECIEVE THAT IS CALLED ”THE SEED PRINCIPLE” I have fell in love with this book due to it stating HOW TO better YOUR LIFE AND how good always prevails.
    I do not wish to make you defensive, but when I said you are a dissapointment it is bc as a victim and reading this information, I as a believer in a higher power was put down, and hurt by your inhumanity. You can have a crude sense of humor Les, but you do not have to humiliate, Hurt, discriminate and add all of your BIG CRUEL WORDS into this article. If you truly cared about letting us know that we are victims then why hurt us when we are already down?
    I GET YOU ARE A NON BELIEVER, A 44 YEAR OLD MAN STILL PLAYING VIDEO GAMES AND STUFF but to me that is sad. I am not going to hurt you by using harsh words, though. I only believe something tramuatizing has happened to you in your lifetime. My father did not believe and he died at the age of 36. I am going to leave you with this thought. If you die as a believer and there is no God you have lost nothing. If you die as a nonbeliever and there is a God you live in hell for all eternity. To me being 45 and still shooting people in the head as a hobby means its time to reevaluate what truly matters. Its not all about believing in God its about believing in a higher power so that you as a person,father,son,..etc can be a productive member of society and make the world a better place.
    The reason I questioned you about your age and if you had children is bc I was praying this was written by a rebellious teenager and not a grown man with children. You and your views reflect upon your children and in return they become the next generation. Maybe this is why we have incidents such as the Colombine, and Virginia Tech..etc. How can you say its meaningless to believe when you dont see “DEVOTE CHRISTIANS” OR their familys changing the world negatively! I wish I could say the same for familys that do not believe in Something Anything greater than themselves.
    I do want to tell you thank you for taking the time to research and inform us about the prayer rug. I only think you should be a little more curtious to your audience!

  40. For all the people who recieved the rug and did not see His eyes open for you then you need to know they dont just magically open,. I too pondered it for several minutes thinking maybe im not seeing the bigger picture here since it keeps specifing that I have to follow the directions. As im kneeling on this rug I am having a heart to heart with God. After a good five min or so I could feel a warm gentle feeling in the room and all of a sudden I am covered in goose bumps and I had a calming sensation overtake me.I thought to myself Hes reminding me through my soul that I have purpous and I am not alone. Less you may think im crazy but I think playing video games of war and violence is rediculous considering all you have to do is walk out your door to see and feel that kind of hatred and anger and adreniline.
    Most of you may say its your gut feeling that saves you sometimes or your concious that keeps you out of trouble and I firmly believe it is a higher power trying to get you to do whats right and trust in yourself enough to have faith and trust in him.
    Which leads me to bending over the rug begging him to show me something,anything to get my family out of these struggles and as a tear are whelping up in my eyes and I have forgotten all about what put me in my room or why His eyes have not opened. I was practically laying on this rug and I slowely opened my eyes and as I rose back up to my knees THAT IS WHEN I SAW JESUS’ EYES OPEN. MIND YOU TEARS WERE DRIPPING OFF MY FACE ONTO THIS PAPER AND MY EYESIGHT WAS A BIT BLURRY AND MY HEAD WAS ANGLED LOOKING DOWN AT HIM AND THAT IS WHEN I SAW THE IMAGE OF HIS PUPAL SLOWELY GETTING BIGGER AND WHEN I WENT BACK TO MY KNEELING POSITION WITH MY BACK STRAIGHT I COULD SEE OPEN EYES! Shortly after, I remebered that was why I kneeled on him in the first place and immediately lost sight of His opened eyes but I noticed the oval in which made me notice his pupal and the lines above the eye in which made it look like his eyelids were opening as i slowely got up.I was able to find some inner peace that night and for that I THANK ST. MATTHEWS church for inspiring me to sit down and have a little alone time with God.
    No matter what even if this is a scam this man is reaching out to alot of people in which may have blown their heads off the next day. As a christian we are still sinners of the flesh, the power of the rug is FAITH THAT YOUR LIFE WILL INDEED GET BETTER AND LIVING FOR TODAY WILL MAKE FOR A BETTER TOMMOROW. None of us “poor victims” truly believed that crap about people winning milions and blah.. merely the fact of reminding one self that greater times are yet to come. Even as a non believer I would like to think that you have hope in something that makes you want to be better, to help you deal with thiefs, liars, anger and agony etc. The lords eyes only open up to the ones in which have their eyes open to Him and the WAY.
    WHY IS THIS ALL BAD WHEN HE IS TOUCHING MANY MANY PEOPLE WHO NEED THE POWER OF PRAYER. I thought the same thing when I first recieved this rug, I was thinking ok Lord Your eyes are not opening. Am i not worthy, Have I betrayed you so many times for my own selfish wordly values. Did I break our bond and realtionship when I kicked my husband out and divorced him. Did I deserve to be beaten for 4 years. Was I suppose to keep turning the other cheak Lord, until he took every breath of life from my flesh.???
    Les, for you to say we deserve the bad things that happen to us is a very unjust statement and not at all true to your image of yourself when you can say you are only thinking fairly.In college when I had everything going for me, (do not want to give name” Jesuit Christian college gave me a full ride asking me only to serve community service hours! As an 18 year old whome never found a boy worthy of giving myself up to yet all of a sudden finds myself at my first frat. party being brutally raped in both ends. Mind you I was a so called “goody goody” up until this turned my life into a downhill spirial. Needless to say i dropped out started smoking dope, drinking heavily, and even tried to commit suicide twice.I lost all hope in people, society, the judicial system and most importantly God. I thought how could He let this happen to me and now I know its bc He doesnt not treat us like his personal puppet.We have free will and it is us who are bad. It is people who pretend to kill people on their spare time or wack off to teenage girls and lust over children. It is our society that has made BAD A COOL THING TO BE.
    Now you can judge and say if you really wanted to die you wouldve made it happen , some say it was a cry for help. I say your damn right about both. I was a 19 year old girl that took over 500 tylenol within 10 min and passeD out untill awoken by choking on my own vomit as well as pooing on myself and all of a sudden my neighbor in the doorm room walks in and finds me. The doctor said if i would have laid there another 15 min without someone finding me then i was sure to die. The pills had not quite desolved therefor once my stomach was pumped i was throwing up whole tylenols. REASON I TELL MY STORY is bc I know what its like to be near death and I am here for a reason. If i wouldve died i would have never brought two amazing brilliant children into this world. I would be missing out on our debate, on watching my children chase after squirls, and giggle so much they sound like old men trying to breathe. I would not have been able to save a 2 year old from drownding in the ymca pool when I was a lifeguard. I have many reasons to owe my loyality to God and not men.

    Les, you hurt me far more than this man did. You have put down every aspect of my life, whether it be my so called emotinal state or financial difficulties or just being down right judgemental and cruel. You know the audiance in which you asked for by writting this letter. Most of us who thought this would be interesting are the victims. So why tear them apart at the same time your trying to help us learn the truth?

  41. You don’t need a prayer mat sent to a public mailing list (by the way ALL addresses are accessible to marketers or churches from the post office) what you need is a psychiatrist

  42. So when you sat down “with a little alone time with God” what did he say to you? Did he tell you to go back and getyour GED? ’cause that would be a good start

  43. I mean seriously, you disturbed woman, did you actually READ Les’ article, about this FINANCIAL SCAM?

    Do you not see that you have been DUPED into sending three dollars, enriching the coffers of some guy in hickville Oklahoma or wherever?

    I am cruel, I suppose, but you are just an idiot. When did anyone insult you as claimed? (besides me) The article is about a MONEY SCAM. Maybe you should re-read it?

  44. I see you modified your initial comment, legacyabq. That’s good because I thought it was overly harsh.

    That said, let’s see what we can make of Mandi’s latest submissions. I’m going to skip over good chunks of it to get to the interesting bits and point out some interesting hypocrisies along the way.

    Mandi June wrote:

    The reason I said not only is this information disapointing but you are as well, bc you say you cared enough about “us” the victims of this scam to inform us of the cruel details of this so called church

    So you’re disappointed that I would take the time to point out a scam? You’d rather remain blissfully unaware of the true motives of the people behind it? Seems a rather precarious way to go through life to me.

    I assure you most of the victims sent in spare change which only covered the cost of the postage and the paper in which the rug was made.

    How could you possibly know that to be true? People have given out thousands of dollars to other scams promising less than this one does. I’ve read news reports of people sending upwards of at least $100 to Saint Michael’s Church after receiving this nonsense in the mail. If this scam wasn’t profitable then it wouldn’t have lasted for so many decades. It wasn’t new when I wrote about it — they started in the 1970’s and in 1999 they reported 26.8 million in revenue — and yet it’s still ongoing today. You don’t make that kind of money off of spare change.

    I do not wish to make you defensive, but when I said you are a dissapointment it is bc as a victim and reading this information, I as a believer in a higher power was put down, and hurt by your inhumanity. You can have a crude sense of humor Les, but you do not have to humiliate, Hurt, discriminate and add all of your BIG CRUEL WORDS into this article. If you truly cared about letting us know that we are victims then why hurt us when we are already down?

    So you were “put down” by finding out that you fell victim to a scam because you allowed your belief in a magic sky fairy to override your common sense? You shouldn’t feel insulted, you should feel embarrassed.

    Though I have to admit that you’re right on one point: It wasn’t my intent to warn people about this scam because the people most likely to fall for it won’t listen to any warnings about it anyway. My point was to illustrate how unfounded faith makes these people vulnerable to anyone who wraps their scams in religious terms. If you’re willing to believe in God(s) without any evidence whatsoever then the fact that you’d send so much as a dime to this scam isn’t surprising in the least.

    Is it cruel to say that? Perhaps, but it’s also the truth. It’s not like this is the only religious scam out there. Quite a few churches were taken in by the Miracle Cars Scam that was going around for awhile. Once again con-artists passing themselves off as a fellow true believers fleeced many flocks for millions.

    Now let’s talk a little about your hypocrisy:

    I GET YOU ARE A NON BELIEVER, A 44 YEAR OLD MAN STILL PLAYING VIDEO GAMES AND STUFF but to me that is sad. I am not going to hurt you by using harsh words, though. […] To me being 45 and still shooting people in the head as a hobby means its time to reevaluate what truly matters.

    So why then do you insist on misspelling my name by adding another S to it suggesting that there is something “less” about me? If your intent wasn’t to hurt then what was it? Not that it bothered me, but it was an obvious jab that contradicts your claim of not wanting to hurt my feelings.

    As for being 45 and wasting my time playing video games, well, it’s no more a waste than being your age and still believing in magic sky faeries who perform negligible miracles with paper prayer rugs. At least I’m having fun. And it’s not like I’m the oldest man wasting his time away with video games. One of the guys I’ve played with is 70.

    I am going to leave you with this thought. If you die as a believer and there is no God you have lost nothing. If you die as a nonbeliever and there is a God you live in hell for all eternity.

    Yes, we’re all familiar with Pascal’s Wager. It’s a bad argument for a whole host of reasons, some of which are explained in this post if you’re brave enough to watch the video it contains. If that seemed like a good argument to you then I’ll be charitable and assume you just didn’t think about it too much because it’s really not a good argument at all.

    The reason I questioned you about your age and if you had children is bc I was praying this was written by a rebellious teenager and not a grown man with children. You and your views reflect upon your children and in return they become the next generation. Maybe this is why we have incidents such as the Colombine, and Virginia Tech..etc.

    So now you’re going to suggest that my kid will grow up to be the next Columbine killers? Really? You do realize that Dylan Bennet Klebold was a Lutheran, right? Eric David Harris’ family wasn’t particularly religious, but there’s nothing that suggests they were remotely atheistic. As for Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech shooter, he was a Christian as well. In the suicide note he left behind he said: “Thanks to you I died like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and defenseless people.” So, at best, we have one not-particularly religious background and two clearly Christian backgrounds for the shooters in both of those incidents. I’d say that’s more an argument against being a Christian than one for it.

    As for my daughter, she’s 21 now and just graduated from Grand Rapids Community College without resorting to shooting the place up despite having someone so terrible as myself for a father. She’ll be attending Grand Valley University this fall and, as far as I know, has no plans to commit horrific acts of violence while she’s there. She wants to work for Disney World once she graduates, one of the most wholesome places on the planet. Yes, I can totally see how my atheism, cynical nature, and violent video game playing has turned her into a sadistic monster.

    How can you say its meaningless to believe when you dont see “DEVOTE CHRISTIANS” OR their familys changing the world negatively! I wish I could say the same for familys that do not believe in Something Anything greater than themselves.

    I see plenty of, as you put it, “devote Christians” changing the world negatively. Have you not heard of Fred “God Hates Fags” Phelps and his clan of Christian hatemongers? Then there’s all the Catholics spreading misinformation about the efficacy of condoms in Africa resulting in countless deaths as AIDS spreads throughout the continent.

    As for atheists impacting the world positively, there are plenty of examples of that as well. We have the Foundation Beyond Belief charity which hands out grants for all manner of world improving activities. Many atheists work very hard to promote and achieve social justice. There are many more examples, but you get the point. If you think atheists aren’t having a positive impact on the world it’s only because you’re not looking hard enough and relying on your own biases.

    I’m going to skip over the majority of your second comment because it was a lot of noise that was semi-interesting, but didn’t really amount to much. We’ll pick up with:

    Les, you hurt me far more than this man did. You have put down every aspect of my life, whether it be my so called emotinal state or financial difficulties or just being down right judgemental and cruel.

    I find it somewhat ironic that you would complain that I was judgmental when that’s all you’ve been throughout both of your comments. You intentionally misspelled my name to imply I was somehow less than ideal. You told me it was sad that I was still playing video games at my age. You suggested my kids will grow up to be mass murderers because they have a non-believer for a father who has never grown up. You suggested that there are no atheist families making positive impacts on the world. All of those were judgments of character informed not based on any facts or knowledge of what I’m really like, but on your own prejudices and biases. Hypocrisy from a devout Christian? Yeah, like that’s any surprise.

    Look, if believing in your invisible friend helps you sleep through the night and keeps you from going Columbine on the rest of us then by all means continue to be a believer. But for Christ’s sake, try to have the courage of your convictions. If your faith is so weak that it can’t withstand criticism without it being a major emotional trauma then I can only wonder just how devout you really are. You’re not hurt because I said “mean things”. You’re hurt because you’re afraid I might be right.

  45. Les,
    Your dang right i may be afraid you are right. Thats only a human thing to do. As a sinner I am always going to want to see “it” right infront of me inorder to believe but when you have expierenced near death experience and or had something so terrible happen to you or continue happening due to HORRIBLE SELFISH people out in the world then I feel Him. Thus, not needing to see Him inorder to believe. About all of the nonsense your talking about, 1 this is a great place to vent when you know you can hide behind a screen and are to “poor” to afford a fake counsiler and 2 I was trying to empasize that if anyone shouldnt believe in a higher power it would be people in which have had something terrible happen to you.
    You took bits and pieces of my response and made them into what you wanted to hear. Never did I suggest your kids will be a killer. I got off the beaten path many of times due to leaving my computer and taking care of my children and never proof read which i should have done now that I am reading back.
    I know people who pretned to be christians are far worse than a man like yourself. I appreciate your unusual views because it shows you are true to yourself and will not be fake however i just dont see the harm in believing that your life on earth will end and if you lived it well your life in eternity will be far greater than what you imagine. But yes I guess I would rather live in fairy land seeing I do have a 5 year old and a 2 year old and Its easier to pretend the world is a good place when they are in my life rather than live in dream worlds of shooting people I only think getting a better hobby would be healthy for a man of your age. Never meant to put you down, only defend myself in all the terrible ways that you view people like me. I never said all churches and christians are good. As far as st matthews I am only out $3 and could care less about it anymore. I do not even like the internet due to its huge involvement in corrupting the world. This was a freak thing for me to fall upon this so I thank you for your insight! Congrats on having a daughter whome graduated college, unfortunatly, not to many students end up graduating these days. Again, I never suggested that she was going to become a murder I was reffering to the game in which you blow peoples heads off and a belief in something better would only help the world become a better place and unfortunatly most children of preachers,revs etc become rebellious and end up shooting people as well so POINT TAKEN.

  46. Meant to reply to Mandi’s latest comment a couple of days ago, but I’ve been busy with work and shooting people in the face (virtually) so this is the soonest I could get to it. Let’s see what we have to work with…

    Mandi June wrote:

    Your dang right i may be afraid you are right. Thats only a human thing to do.

    Why is it the human thing to do? You didn’t exist for millions of years before you were born and it wasn’t any trouble for you. Why should not existing after you die be any more of a problem?

    As a sinner I am always going to want to see “it” right infront of me inorder to believe but when you have expierenced near death experience and or had something so terrible happen to you or continue happening due to HORRIBLE SELFISH people out in the world then I feel Him. Thus, not needing to see Him inorder to believe.

    So you’re saying that because bad things have happened to you from bad people that somehow makes you feel the presence of your God? Are you sure that’s not just wishful thinking?

    I’ve had my fair share of near-death experiences and certainly I’ve had a few terrible people do things to me that were pretty traumatic at the time, but none of that ever caused me to “feel” a God(s) presence in my life. I’m not sure I understand why that would give you such a feeling.

    I was trying to empasize that if anyone shouldnt believe in a higher power it would be people in which have had something terrible happen to you.

    I don’t believe in God(s) not because terrible things have happened to me. I don’t believe in God(s) because there’s no evidence such things exists and all the definitions for God(s) I’ve heard to date are morally questionable and logically inconsistent.

    You took bits and pieces of my response and made them into what you wanted to hear. Never did I suggest your kids will be a killer. I got off the beaten path many of times due to leaving my computer and taking care of my children and never proof read which i should have done now that I am reading back.

    No, I took bits and pieces of your response and explained to you how they sounded to me. I don’t want to hear you claiming that my kid is going to be a mass murderer. That was the message I took away from your comment. Now perhaps that’s not the message you intended to convey, but that’s how it sounded to me.

    I know people who pretned to be christians are far worse than a man like yourself.

    I’m amused that you assume they’re pretending. I bet if you asked them they would swear on a Bible that they’re not. It’s the old joke of “How can you tell if a person isn’t a True Christian? His actions and beliefs don’t match mine.” Considering that there are — according to the Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary — approximately 41,000 different Christian denominations around the world, I’d be inclined to say that figuring out which ones are the True Christians would be difficult at best. They all claim the title for themselves.

    I appreciate your unusual views because it shows you are true to yourself and will not be fake however i just dont see the harm in believing that your life on earth will end and if you lived it well your life in eternity will be far greater than what you imagine.

    If that was the extent of the belief then there’d be no problem, but that’s never the extent of it. Nor is it quite so simple. The core tenant of Christian belief is that the only way to Heaven is by belief in Jesus Christ. Simply living a good life isn’t enough. You also have to have faith in something that there is no evidence for. Plus there’s a list of arbitrary rules that you have to follow which most Christians tend to cherry pick from depending on whether or not the rule agrees with their own views of how things Ought To Be. And it’s also not enough that you do this, but you’re supposed to try and get everyone else to believe and do as you do. Worst of all, the religion itself actively discourages critical thinking. You are not to question, but only to believe and obey.

    I would hope you can see the potential for harm and abuse that approach to life carries with it.

    But yes I guess I would rather live in fairy land seeing I do have a 5 year old and a 2 year old and Its easier to pretend the world is a good place when they are in my life rather than live in dream worlds of shooting people I only think getting a better hobby would be healthy for a man of your age.

    In general the world is a good place. Or at least I think so. There’s certainly aspects of it that are crappy, but overall I think it’s a good place. Which is actually contradictory to what the Bible says. It claims the world is wicked and full of evil and thus you should not be “of the world.” It’s interesting that you think the world is a good place and yet claim to be a Christian.

    And I don’t live in the “dream worlds of shooting people.” It’s a game that I play that poses less risk of harm than any sport I could participate in. Both to myself and to the other players. If I said I spent my spare time playing baseball you’d have no problem with it despite the very real risk of injury to myself and to the other players the sport involves. I engage in a little mindless competition that harms no one but takes the form of a virtual shootout and suddenly it’s a terrible thing?

    But I’m curious what you wold consider to be a more healthy hobby for me. I can see the argument that at least with baseball I’d be getting some exercise, but I suspect that’s not what you mean by “healthy.” Why is it unhealthy for a man my age to be playing a video game?

    Never meant to put you down, only defend myself in all the terrible ways that you view people like me.

    Here’s a surprise for you: I don’t view you in any way that I would consider to be “terrible.” I barely know you, but from what I’ve seen so far you seem sincere and making an effort to be a good person. I think you may be overly credulous, but that doesn’t make you terrible. If anything, I have concern that your gullibility will cause problems for you when the truly terrible people come calling, which they eventually will do.

    The thing is this: We’re all human and we’re all going to make mistakes that cause ourselves and those around us more trouble than they should from time to time. There’s no way around that, but I really hate to see people compound their mistakes by being willfully ignorant and stupid. It’s one thing to genuinely not know something, but it’s another to have the facts presented to you and continue to insist on clinging to ideas you have no basis for. Piss-poor thinking leaves you open to all manner of abuse from people who have little to no scruples, but when people keep insisting on faith over reason there comes a point where it’s hard to feel sorry when they inevitably end up being fucked over for the umpteenth time.

    As far as st matthews I am only out $3 and could care less about it anymore.

    It was only $3 for you, but what of the others who have sent hundreds and even thousands of dollars to those con-artists?

    I do not even like the internet due to its huge involvement in corrupting the world.

    The Internet is a tool like any other. It’s neither good nor evil, but can be used for either. There are many that would say my little blog here is a corrupting influence on the world. I would disagree with that assessment. Which one of us is right? The blog itself it just a tool I use to express my viewpoints. Whether my viewpoints are good or evil probably depends on whether you agree with them or not, but if there’s any blame it lies with me. Not with my blog or the Internet.

    Again, I never suggested that she was going to become a murder I was reffering to the game in which you blow peoples heads off and a belief in something better would only help the world become a better place and unfortunatly most children of preachers,revs etc become rebellious and end up shooting people as well so POINT TAKEN.

    Belief in something better does not make the world a better place. Doing something to make the world a better place makes the world a better place and you can do that whether you believe in a “higher power” or not. This blog is one of the things that I do to try and make the world a better place.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.