In retrospect I shouldn’t have been so polite.

Having slept on it I have to admit that I’m not as happy with my appearance on The National last night as I was initially. In particular, I’m somewhat upset with myself for not having interrupted the Oak Park Conservative who tried to equate Iraq with World War II. As soon as the suggestion that Iraq should be considered similar to WWII escaped his lips I should have stood up and said, “You have GOT to be kidding me.” And then let loose on his stupid ass. Having sat passively while this moron spewed this favorite myth of the far right troubled me more than I expected as my dreams all night long were on how I should have responded to him. Over and over again my head played back that moment while I slept and each time my subconscious would tweak my soliloquy until it had it perfected.

The whole Iraq equals WWII bullshit is one of the more grating arguments in support of Bush’s little war that I’ve ever heard and it’s always a sore point with me whenever I hear it. Anne even knows how much it bugs me and she tensed up when she heard this moron spewing the same crap in anticipation of my coming outburst, and she would’ve been nothing but supportive if I had spoken up. She told me on the way home that she so wanted me to be able to counter that argument because it bugs the hell out of her as well.

Instead, I was polite and limited my protest to a shaking of my head that left my brain rattling so hard that I swear it must have been audible. I missed my opportunity to rightfully point out how idiotic that argument really is and show that not every American is so ignorant of his country’s history that he swallows the implications of an administration that is only too happy to allow such nonsense to pass as truth in a desperate attempt to justify a decision to go to war on completely false pretenses. I should have pointed out that there was no question as to the origin of the planes that attacked Pearl Harbor or what country was behind the attack whereas on 9/11 we were attacked by our own planes and not a single Iraqi was involved at all. I should have pointed out that Japan and Germany were a much graver and immediate threat to our future back then than Iraq could ever have hoped to be now or in the future. I should have pointed out that people lined up back then to volunteer to go fight that war whereas now the Army is worried that they’re going to see a significant drop in reenlistments as a result of the war in Iraq. I definitely should have pointed out that we didn’t throw the first punch in WWII and we did in Iraq. There was no question among the rest of the free world that our involvement was not only the right thing to do, but justified and warranted by the actions of the countries we went to war against whereas the greater majority of the world was opposed to our invasion of Iraq.

There is nothing at all similar between the Iraq War and World War II and trying to claim that there is should be considered a slap in the face to everyone who fought in WWII.

I was angry last night when I heard this same tired argument trotted out again and I’m even angrier about it this morning. Particularly with myself for not having the presence of mind to speak up and be rude at a time when it was most warranted. Certainly there were other comments last night that made me want to speak up, but none bothered me as much as this one. It’s a sorer spot than even I realized and I’m just sorry I wasn’t able to say what needed to be, and should have been, said.

59 thoughts on “In retrospect I shouldn’t have been so polite.

  1. I thought I saw you there.  It is the whole reason why I came to this site today.  You were the man who stood up and spoke of being a libertarian-liberal correct?

    Anyways I feel your pain about that man’s comment.  As I was watching the broadcast, I yelled in rage You have got to be KIDDING ME!  IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US.

    Don’t let it get to you, at least the one guy mentioned that it was pretty much accepted that Iraq didn’t attack us.

  2. “Why of course the people don’t want war …. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship …Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

        This statement was made in 1933 by Herman Goerring, Hitler’s field marshall. Spooky!!!

  3. You did well.  It was unfortunate the format was so staged and not a little more free debate but I guess you use what you have available.

  4. Oh, don’t you hate that? It hits me alot: “hey, can I borrow some hindsight from tomorow?” Or on a really bad day, maybe from next week.

    I think sometimes the input we get is so offensive that it generates a sort of shock with a (loosely speaking) paralyzing effect. The brain seems to say, “well that’s so disgusting it just can’t be real – there’s no sane way I should have to be equipped to respond to that.” Unfortunately, this seems to happen to input I get repeatedly, so familiarity doesn’t nix the shock process, if the material is horrid enough.

    The WWII comparison is definitely horrid enough, but I notice I’m describing a pathology that may be mine alone. Don’t mean to implicate you by commiserating. At any rate, I can empathize with the frustration, and I’m glad you were out there at all, having your voice heard.

  5. This reminds me of ancient Chinese saying….“He who speaks does not know;He who knows does not speak.”….the wise man can hold his toungue even while an idiot babbles. I think you did fine Les. We need more people like you: willing to be a voice of reason.

  6. I have to say I respect your patience and level of control I think I would have had a hard time acting anything except saying “The Ministry of Truth called, they want their products back”, in a variety of forms loudly throughout what they dress up as truth.

    One of the many nice things about Canada (having lived their for a year), is that most of the conservatives (and there still aren’t a lot of them anyway) are ghettoed in Alberta (where I was), however Alberta also seems to be rather fond of the NDP (green peace loving socialism smile ) which is canada’s 3rd party and rather successfuly smile.

    Also I failed to meet anyone while there who would really be classfied even as a moderate conservative, everyone seemed pretty liberal except the Premier (who didn’t even graduate high school) and I didn’t actually meet him, apparently calgary isn’t as liberal as Edmonton.

  7. Les- I didn’t get to see you.  I hope the show will be available on the net sometime.  I can only second what Amy said- hindsight is 20/20 vision.  I know exactly how frustrating it is, and how hard it is to let go of obsessively reconstructing how it could have been.  However it was, you are doing a great job here of presenting your viewpoint, and have made a great space for all of us to gambol and spit and holler in.  That alone has earned you a spot in Atheist’s Heaven.

  8. les,

    “There is nothing at all similar between the Iraq War and World War II”

    Well, if your equate Hitler and Bush, then I can see the “WWII bullshit”

    I was a little disappointed with the show, just because it was not what I expected.

    jim

  9. There is nothing at all similar between the Iraq War and World War II and trying to claim that there is should be considered a slap in the face to everyone who fought in WWII.

    Yet it would not have been a slap in the face to sit back and let all those Americans die with no recourse?

    I’m not saying Iraq was the one to blame, but it was time some one stood up and said “You bastards better leave us alone.” The Taliban and their cohorts have been attacking America for ever, and you think we should be doing nothing about it?

    Saddam was a bad man, that’s all there really is to it. He needed to be restrained and I’m happy we finally had a president with enough balls to do it.

  10. I can empathize with the frustration, and I’m glad you were out there at all, having your voice heard.
    – Amy

    What Amy said.  Plus, I bet the other guy had been on TV a lot and knew what to expect.  I’ll bet his first time on TV he was hitting himself on the forehead, saying; “Did you hear what that liberal said?!!  And I just sat there, politely shaking my head!”

  11. Yet it would not have been a slap in the face to sit back and let all those Americans die with no recourse?

    I’m not saying Iraq was the one to blame, but it was time some one stood up and said “You bastards better leave us alone.

  12. And let’s not forget George Bush Sr. and the CIA, when Iran was the enemy the couldn’t have been better friends and arms dealers for Saddam.  the bad guys are only bad when the are in the way of American corporate policy (most days).  The U.S. government has a long track record of supporting brutal dictators with military assistance in the name of “Freedom”, freedom for whom exactly?  if you live in the 3rd world and you have resource America wants you’d better not vote socialist, caus e amilitary coup is shortly to follow.

  13. So I’m sitting in my hotel room in Atlanta this morning, flipping through channels, and I run across this “The National” show on CSPAN … and, hey, wasn’t Les going to be on that?  And, hey, they’re talking about US/Canada stuff.  And, hey, is that … yeah, shaved head … yeah, looks like he has a beard …

    And, hey, I think that’s Les in close-up, though a woman’s head is in the way, and he looks a little shifty-eyed …

    I missed the first half or so (and I’ve been offline the past 48h or so), so I’m not sure if you got a chance to speak, but it was eerily neat seeing you there in that thar television box.  Fun.

    (And, yes, the “Iraq is WWII” guy was a dolt, though I thought the general level of commentary was not all that impressive …)

  14. I am shocked.

    There are no other words than I am shocked. The stupidity of some people just makes me laugh. The man who stated that Iraq and the second World War were similar in the light of the United States being attacked, I shook my head. After he was finished, and the second man stated that he was CLEARLY wrong, I applauded.

    When the lady claiming that christians founded this country, Canada, and that the judicial system is based upon it, I shook my head. She spoke of being ashamed of being Canadian. I say that she should be ashamed for not knowing anything about her country. She is obviously and elderly lady, one who has seen much more than myself; But when an 18 year old Computer Systems Tech student knows more about HISTORY than someone OLDER than himself, I laugh. I know that even one such as herself was not alive when Canada was founded, although he though it amusing, I still think that examples in the past state that Canada was not based on a christian foundation. Furthermore, I am shocked that one can believe such rabble. Is the Canadian Judicial System based on the bible? So homosexuals are condemned without proof? Men own women? Stoning people to death is acceptable? Clearly it is not.

    When the man who moved from Canada, claiming that George Bush holds his values more clearly than the Canadian government does, I shook my head. The same man who said George Bush held his ideals states that he follows strong leaders, leaders how tell the truth. Is it not common knowledge that George Bush had lied during the election process? Also, is it not common knowledge that George Bush appealed to the christian populace as a way to get re-elected? The man states he does not follow leaders who use the polls just to get re-elected, yet Bush is his hero. Oh, sweet irony.

    There were some sane people though. Not to sound bias, but most Canadian speakers held views that I agreed with, especially the man who spoke last. Iraq did not start this war. Also, there are more sides than with or against. It is more of a threat than a statement when the words, “You are either with or against me,

  15. I had only a little time to catch part of the program on the net so I can’t honestly comment on it .  But I can say you made me proud listening to your comment.

  16. Les – you really did a fine job and if you had tried to interject during someone else’s commentary you would have probably been edited out.  This way, you got a little TV exposure and they saw that you’re intelligent and well spoken.  Maybe they’ll keep you in mind for something else in the future where you can showcase your talent.  If you had just drummed that guy you would be out of the picture completely.

    The Iraq war is likened to WWII in the fact that a lot of people are dead.  Beyond that, the similarities are non-existent,

  17. I seriously can’t believe you’re sitting here and suggesting that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but we needed to kick someone’s ass and Iraq was as good a choice as any other nation

    What I am suggesting is that it had become judgment day, not that we threw a dart at a map and said “Oh goodie Iraq again.” Iraq was chosen as the first of the bad men because he was considered the biggest threat via multinational intelligence.

    And I’m also suggesting that the day has come for these folks you fingered:

    Iran, North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, Cuba

    We’ve been working with them and given that talking fails I bet you Bush will be taking them out too.

    We launched a War on Terror and each and every country that falls into a terrorist category weather by direct involvement or indirect will hear from us.
    That’s fair is it not? Or again are you suggesting just bending over and taking it while Veterans sit back and say “Why did my best friends have to die in (insert war here) if we aren’t going to defend this Nation anymore?”

    Are you suggesting that those countries would be fully justified in invading us in a pre-emptive attack to liberate us from what they perceive to be an evil and corrupt leader?

    Yup. Valid fear of attack, after diplomatic routs have failed, is a justification for force. Isn’t that the way things work? A hostage taker is negotiated with and once it is determined that he will not let things end peacefully he is forcefully taken down.

  18. WICKID WICKID! My first impression of you was so different than the one I currently have. Then you made a humorous remark and I laughed. Now you’re starting to scare me.

  19. are you suggesting just bending over and taking it

    You got a point there.  I mean, what with all that dieing that the Iraqis did in the first gulf war, and then all that dieing that they’re doing in this gulf war.  When people just starting getting their asses kicked repeatedly by you, you can’t let them think they can get away with it.  You gotta pile on and kick the shit out of ‘em, so that they don’t start thinking that they can just get killed over and over without any consequences.

    Man, after the way they “stuck it to us,” with all that dieing, and thinking evil thoughts about us, I agree with you—time to stop “bending over.”

  20. Why do I get the feeling that on Stupid Evil Bastard Arabic Edition someone just posted:

    Yet it would not have been a slap in the face to sit back and let all those Muslims die with no recourse?

    I’m not saying New York City was the one to blame, but it was time some one stood up and said “You bastards better leave us alone.

  21. So why do people equate Iraq to WWII? Probably because they are only following their leader.

    http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/01/bush-foreign-policy041201.html

    Bush urges Canada to ‘take the fight to them’
    Last Updated Wed, 01 Dec 2004 13:49:36 EST

    HALIFAX – U.S. President George W. Bush suggested Canada should take a more active role in his “war on terrorism” in a speech he gave in Halifax on Wednesday.

    Three years after the worst-ever attacks against civilians on American soil, Bush said Canada had a duty to do more to ward off potential threats to North America.

    He raised the example of a former prime minister, William Lyon Mackenzie King, who did not wait for Hitler’s Nazis to attack Canada before sending troops to fight in the Second World War.

    Bush quoted King’s words directly: “We cannot defend our country and save our homes and families by waiting for our enemies to attack us. To remain on the defensive is the surest way to bring the war to Canada.”

    The president added: “Mackenzie King was correct then and we must always remember his words today… There is only one way to deal with enemies who plot in secret and set out to murder the innocent and the unsuspecting. We must take the fight to them.”

    In March 2003, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien angered Bush when he refused to send Canadian troops to join the U.S.-led military coalition to topple Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

    Relations have been chilly ever since.

    “We are bound by history and geography and trade and by our deepest convictions,” Bush said of the relationship between the two countries. “With so much at stake, we cannot be divided.”

  22. Hmmm, let’s see…

    Nazis    
    kills: millions in a few years
    countries taken over: quite a few
       
    Terrorists
    kills: a few thousand over decades
    countries taken over: 0

    Yep that’s just as bad.

    [/sarcasm]

  23. So why do people equate Iraq to WWII? Probably because they are only following their leader.

    Stupid is as stupid does.

  24. Just for fun:

    Auto accidents –
    Kills: about 1.1 million a year
    Countries taken over: All of ‘em, I think.

    Tobacco –
    Kills: about 5 million people a year.
    Countries taken over: Well, pretty much the whole developing world

    Living –
    Kills: everybody, eventually.
    Countries taken over… well, you get the idea.

    Why aren’t these things evil?  Because there’s no intent to kill – it’s just part of the risk of daily life as users benefit from the activity.  But with terrorists there is intent to kill, so we correctly say; “evil.”

    The terrorists pretty much took over Afghanistan and several other countries are pock-marked with terrorist enclaves.  But except for very concentrated areas, fighting them militarily only ends up making more terrorists faster than we can kill them.  In the end the only way we’ll beat terrorism is judo, not boxing.  Undermine support at the street level by better foreign policy. 

    Supporting thugs seems to be the main complaint, along with exploitation of economic resources.  Well, fine.  Our foreign policy should be directed at fostering stable economies and security for people at all economic levels.  To do that, we’ll need to accept that 1) we don’t control the world, and 2) even if we did, it isn’t ours to control.

    Are terrorists as bad as Nazis?  Sure, in some ways; including targeting civilians.  In sheer numbers and scope of effect, no.

  25. sure, we had no proof of direct involvement of saddam in the 9/11 attacks, but to say that iraq had nothing to do with it is naive at best.  we took out enough terrorist camps at the beginning of the war to prove that wrong.

    the war we are fighting crosses national, racial and cultural borders.  we are fighting an idea.  a religious idea and the people who would follow it to the grave, taking you and your family with them.

  26. we took out enough terrorist camps at the beginning of the war to prove that wrong.

    When did this happen and why are you the only person to know about it?

    the war we are fighting crosses national, racial and cultural borders.  we are fighting an idea.  a religious idea and the people who would follow it to the grave, taking you and your family with them.

    How do you mean? What is this idea of which you speak? You are making very vague statements and are providing no evidence or citing nothing to back up your statements. Reminds me of Bush.

  27. didn’t you watch the cnn and fox coverage of the war?  101st found a couple of camps north of baghdad.  if we found a couple, just how many more were there that we never found or never even heard about on the news?

    well i didn’t think i would have to spell it out, but i will just for you.  i’m talking about fundamentalist muslims that want to kill all infidels, particularly [but not exclusively] united states and israeli citizens.

  28. You are making very vague statements and are providing no evidence or citing nothing to back up your statements. Reminds me of Bush.

  29. didn’t you watch the cnn and fox coverage of the war?  101st found a couple of camps north of baghdad.  if we found a couple, just how many more were there that we never found or never even heard about on the news?

    Oh yeah, two very non-biased trustworthy news sources. Weren’t those the camps that had the WMDs in them? I can’t say that I watched it Grey.

    How is it that these camps are suddenly terrorist camps? They could have been military camps, Iraq was expecting to be invaded after all. Maybe you could pull the article up for me to read?

    well i didn’t think i would have to spell it out, but i will just for you.  i’m talking about fundamentalist muslims that want to kill all infidels, particularly [but not exclusively] united states and israeli citizens.

    Grey you seeem like an intelligent guy, but honestly I think you are too lazy to even use the shift key, let alone educate yourself on the real politics of the world. War, fighting, it takes two sides. There are plenty of fundamentalist Jews and Christians who are looking to kill as well, not just Muslims. Besides which, I am more worried about the guy with road rage, or the drunk who feels the need to drive himself home, then I am about a couple of Terrorists who ‘might’ want to kill me.

    Terrorism works by creating fear, you and people like you are its real victims, not the few people that it kills.

  30. if you guys want to make personal attacks, go down to the 7-11 and pick on someone, preferably a lot smaller than you.  if you want to have a discussion, great, let’s do it.  i’m all about seeing things from the other side, otherwise i wouldn’t come to this very liberal website and allow myself to get flamed over and over for having a different opinion.

    i choose not to use the shift key for my own reasons and this fact is well documented on my personal site as well as SEB.  you aren’t the first person to ridicule my preference to not use the shift key and probably won’t be the last.  i really don’t care.

    now let’s quit stinking up this thread with garbage and get back on track. 

    How is it that these camps are suddenly terrorist camps?

    suddenly?  this was put out a year and a half ago.  just with any media, it could be true, it could be misleading, i don’t know.  i don’t have an article to cite, and even if i did i don’t see that it would matter –it could be misleading as well.  i do know that i haven’t been to iraq and can’t say for certain anything that concerns iraq so i must go off what i’ve been fed.

    Terrorism works by creating fear, you and people like you are its real victims, not the few people that it kills.

    yes, terrorism does work by creating fear, but we’re only victims when we let it adversely affect our lives.  on the other hand, we can’t just sit back and take a beating.  we’ve got the best army in the world, let’s use it to protect our people by keeping the fight on foreign soil instead of on our own.  our soldiers are trained and equipped a hell of a lot better than joe dickhead sitting on the corner slurping on his slushy when all of a sudden *zap!* he gets fucking smoked by some zealot with a nuke.

    and for the record, i believe the people the families of the people that died on 9/11 and at the embassy bombings in the 90’s are the TRUE victims of terrorism.

  31. *fixed from above

    and for the record, i believe the families of the people that died on 9/11 and at the embassy bombings in the 90’s are the TRUE victims of terrorism.

  32. if you guys want to make personal attacks, go down to the 7-11 and pick on someone, preferably a lot smaller than you.i choose not to use the shift key for my own reasons and this fact is well documented on my personal site as well as SEB.

    Alright, fair enough. I apologize. I am new to this site, and I haven’t seen your reasons for using only small letters. If you choose to type as you do for a reason, then more power to you… it’s just that it ‘seems’ lazy to me.

    i don’t have an article to cite, and even if i did i don’t see that it would matter –it could be misleading as well.

    Maybe it would be, but the point is, without any real proof the suspect should be innocent until proven guilty. Though that is changing isn’t it.

    and for the record, i believe the families of the people that died on 9/11 and at the embassy bombings in the 90’s are the TRUE victims of terrorism.

    I guess you do use caps when you feel they are needed.

    Just do me this one favour, and ask yourself; Why would anyone resort to terrorism? What would these people have to gain from a terrorist attack? I am not talking about the individual terrorists, but the people behind the terrorists. The ones like Osama, the ones who want someone like George W. in power. Why would they want that?

    Because of the fear created by these attacks, Americans have already had to throw away many of their ideals. Things like arrests without probable cause, the dissolution of the legal system and torture are no longer frowned upon. The terrorists are actually winning and you can’t even see it, because you believe the power of your military will save you. Meanwhile this war is creating new terrorists every day.

    Each and every day since 9/11, Americans have had to give up a little more of their beloved freedom. Why? Because of fear. Where does it end?  Who will save you when your powerful military is turned on you?

    Of course, America would never allow a civil war to occur. Well at least not again.

  33. Grey – We got off to a rocky start when I visited your site but I think we can discuss this matter.

    yes, terrorism does work by creating fear, but we’re only victims when we let it adversely affect our lives.  on the other hand, we can’t just sit back and take a beating.

    I wholeheartedly agree.

    we’ve got the best army in the world, let’s use it to protect our people by keeping the fight on foreign soil instead of on our own.

    This is the same baseless argument that we heard throughout the campaigning.  If we begin continue to be vigilant in protecting ourselves then there is no reason to assume that ‘fighting’ will erupt on US soil.

    As it stands now, we are fighting against more insurgents than terrorists.  If history has shown us anything, it’s that brute force has limited success against insurgents.  Extended fighting actually creates more insurgents and the best outcome through the use of the military is to eventually kill all of the dissidents even though they were never part of the military objective.  This path is extremely expensive and spans a long period of time with an enormous casualty rate.

    I believe that this is the reason why members of the EU are pushing so strongly for an insurgent presence during the upcoming talks on Iraq’s future.

  34. I guess you do use caps when you feel they are needed.

    yes, lol, i had to toss that one in there to prove i know were the shift key is.

    Just do me this one favour, and ask yourself; Why would anyone resort to terrorism?

    to influence our actions.  it’s the only power they can have over us.  the question i have is, how do they want us to act?

    remember the last osama tape before the election?  do you think he could understand the majority of u.s. citizens well enough to think his reverse psychology could lead to more votes for bush?  do you think he may have wanted bush to be elected so we would continue the fight in iraq?  it was something i had thought of after i ranted about it…

    Each and every day since 9/11, Americans have had to give up a little more of their beloved freedom. Why? Because of fear. Where does it end?

    no shit.  i don’t agree with some of the measures the dept. of homeland security has taken such as super-security at airports and “terror alerts”.  the best thing we could have done at home after 9/11 is pick up the pieces and rebuild the towers bigger and better than before. 

    deadscot -If history has shown us anything, it’s that brute force has limited success against insurgents.

    i’m hoping iraq doesn’t turn into another vietnam.  but what can we do?  if we pull out, we’ll lose credibility.  if we stay, well, who knows what will happen.

    this is exactly why i come here.  to see things from the other side.

  35. now let’s quit stinking up this thread with garbage and get back on track.

    Too late, Grey, you already managed that all by yourself by making baseless claims that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 in your first reply.

    If you’re going to make claims like that then back them up with some form of evidence, otherwise you’re fair game for being labeled a dumbass.

  36. yes, terrorism does work by creating fear, but we’re only victims when we let it adversely affect our lives.  on the other hand, we can’t just sit back and take a beating.  we’ve got the best army in the world, let’s use it to protect our people by keeping the fight on foreign soil instead of on our own.

    This terrorism has already adversely affected your lives, as I stated in my last post. It has become the number one American issue, it blinds the people from all other issues, allowing the government to pass measures that would never normally be allowed. It was the reason why you elected the governent that you did.

    I don’t believe that you should sit back and take a beating. However, there is more then one way to combat terrorism and some ways are much more effective then others. America took the exact route that everyone had expected them to take. The same route you would expect the macho big guy to take when you slap him in the face. You chose revenge… not a real solution.

    remember the last osama tape before the election?  do you think he could understand the majority of u.s. citizens well enough to think his reverse psychology could lead to more votes for bush?  do you think he may have wanted bush to be elected so we would continue the fight in iraq?  it was something i had thought of after i ranted about it…

    Yes, I do think that Osama wanted this war to continue. Without the war, Osama just becomes a fugitive. With the war people like Osama become a refuge, a place where those opposed to the American invasion can turn.

    There are more Arab countries then Iraq and most of the terrorists from 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia. The war wih Iraq will only draw more hatred, fear and suspicion from Arabs, not less.

  37. if you would take off your bias goggles and read some of the other posts around here, you would find that damn near every one is baseless.  i guess it’s only the ones that disagree with you that get the attention though.  that’s pretty fucking closed-minded.

  38. terroran -i’m tracking ya.  i’ve thought the same thing but really haven’t wanted to admit it to myself.  that fact alone has really made me question our wisdom in going into iraq in the first place.  unfortunately, that can’t be undone and we have to deal with the mess.

    my last post was in response to les calling me a dumbass in a roundabout way.

  39. if you would take off your bias goggles and read some of the other posts around here, you would find that damn near every one is baseless.  i guess it’s only the ones that disagree with you that get the attention though.  that’s pretty fucking closed-minded.

    Coming from you, that’s pretty rich. Honestly, I don’t think you’ve got much of a reason to be lecturing others about how biased they are considering some of your past replies.

    And it’s not really the fact that you’re so biased that bothers me as much as it is that you’re so gung-ho to use that biased reasoning as justification for waging war against anyone you perceive as any kind of a threat. You’ve all but flat-out stated your desire to see an escalating war of genocide against Muslims by the U.S. that would make the Crusades look like a walk in the park.

  40. has it ever occured to you that, in an attempt to feel things out and incite some discussion, i may choose to take an extreme view on a stance?  i do it all the time in real life and i do it here, not to stink up your site, but to feel my way towards the center where i usually end on issues.  your blog is an explorative tool and nothing more to me.

    genocide against muslims in the u.s.?  is that from my submission that you chose not to post?  i don’t recall every saying anything about wanting to kill anyone.

  41. You’ve all but flat-out stated your desire to see an escalating war of genocide against Muslims by the U.S. that would make the Crusades look like a walk in the park.

    genocide against muslims in the u.s.?  is that from my submission that you chose not to post?  i don’t recall every saying anything about wanting to kill anyone.

    Les’ post does say that you’ve all BUT said it, not that you have.

    If you’re going to make claims like that then back them up with some form of evidence, otherwise you’re fair game for being labelled a dumbass.

    Here now, let’s stop with the assumptions. Les didn’t call anyone a dumbass, he just said you’re now fair game for anyone who wishes to call you said insult.

  42. i’ll concede on that one.  although given les’ dislike for me you can’t really blame me too much for assuming he meant that as an insult.

  43. Grey wrote: if you would take off your bias goggles and read some of the other posts around here, you would find that damn near every one is baseless.  i guess it’s only the ones that disagree with you that get the attention though.  that’s pretty fucking closed-minded.

    It might have something to do with the tiny little fact that the statements in everyone else’s posts are verifiable with a five minute search of Lexis Nexis or ProQuest. When I can find what we all are saying in a major academic journal, a government report, or multiple news sources, that is not “baseless.” When attempting to verify the “facts” you spew, it damn near always turns out that the exact opposite of what you are claiming is what actually occurred.

  44. Grey – Don’t go getting a persecution complex.  It’s all good.  It’s just that when you start off with stance that is so far off base, you set yourself up to be slammed in the same fashion I would be if I came by your sight and claimed we need to pull out of Iraq immediately and begin making reparations to the families we destroyed.

    I do find it interesting how we always turn to Vietnam when the issue of insurgency arises.  Even though the insurgent numbers in Vietnam were minuscule compared to Iraq.  I really believe that Central and South America would serve as better examples of the type of mentality we are facing in Iraq. 

    Of course, the big difference being they were fighting against their own militia while Iraqi insurgents are fighting an occupying force.

    no shit.  i don’t agree with some of the measures the dept. of homeland security has taken such as super-security at airports and “terror alerts

  45. I thought that would have been a good idea too.  I fully supported the US going after Al Qaeda training camps and taking action against Afghanistan.  After that, I believe all efforts should have been focused on bringing Osama to justice and rebuilding the towers and surrounding areas.

    If things had proceeded in that vein, I believe that we would be much better off today.

    I completely agree with that.

    It probably wouldn’t have hurt to also find out why terrorist are targeting the USA. To say “they hate us” or “they are jealous of us”, is not an answer. These people feel they have been wronged, and obviously they have no method of recourse.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.