“Dr.” Kent Hovind raided by the IRS.

As mentioned by a commenter in another thread (of which I can remember neither at the moment) our good friend “Dr.” Ken Hovind is in hot water with the IRS:

newsobserver.com – IRS investigating operator of creationist theme park

Agents on Wednesday confiscated computer and paper records of financial activity since 1997, but no charges have been filed against Hovind. He denied wrongdoing Friday.

In a sworn statement to obtain a search warrant, IRS agent Scott Schneider said none of Hovind’s enterprises has a business license or tax-exempt status as a nonprofit entity.

“Since 1997, Hovind has engaged in financial transactions indicating sources of income and has made deposits to bank accounts well in excess of $1 million per year during some of these years, which would require the filing of federal income taxes,” Schneider said.

Hovind said he suspected he is being targeted because of his religious beliefs and questioned the timing of the raids a day before the April 15 tax-filing deadline.

Oh I agree completely. We all know that one of the top concerns of the IRS is stamping out people who push “Intelligent Design” as a legitimate scientific theory.

Please. All the IRS is concerned about is that it get its cut of any money you’re making. If you’re trying to shield your organization from taxes in a manner that is not in compliance with the law then you can expect to have the IRS crawling up your ass with a microscope before too long. It has nothing to do with his beliefs about the origin of man and everything to do with his belief that his organizations should be tax exempt.

But what more can you expect from an idiot who seriously believes that mankind walked alongside dinosaurs?

121 thoughts on ““Dr.” Kent Hovind raided by the IRS.

  1. Well, all the IRS cares about is getting its cut; it doesn’t much care where it came from.  That’s someone else’s department.

    Typical syndrome at work here:  plenty of unscrupulous religious people decide they’re above secular law, and whatever “God” wants them to do should override everything else.

  2. “America has no king but Jesus,” as our Attorney General once said. Of course his king did say to “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” and paid his taxes while (according to some) incarnated as a human being.

    I don’t understand why having some kind of faith should exempt anybody from taxes. It’s stupid! Donations to religious organizations should only be tax deductible to the extent that they are used for charitible purposes. Moneys paying the reverend’s salary and the church mortgage ought to be taxed to the donor.

  3. Apparently you folks didn’t read the part about “no charges”. You seem to be ready to convict because of a mans faith. He is no scam artist. I don’t know if he is guilty or not, but I do know that the ideas he put forward are just as valid as anyone elses. You may choose not to believe, but to ridicule shows the true nature of why.

  4. No charges as of yet, this is true. I’m willing to wait and see if there’s any actual reason to convict Hovind, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there is as the man is a fraud. It has nothing to do with his faith. His ideas are no where near as valid as anyone else’s as they are based on no scientific evidence of any kind. The ridicule he receives is well deserved.

  5. mike, this is not Hovind’s first brush with the IRS. Go here and then follow the link to see the court’s finding in his 1996 bankruptcy hearing.

  6. Hovind’s beliefs regarding taxes have little if anything to do with his religion. It is a fairly well established fact that there is no constitutional, legal authority for the federal tax system. This, to my knowledge, has been Hovind’s reason for not paying the taxes demanded by the feds. Many non-religious folks have protested federal taxation on the same grounds, incidentally.

    I’m not sure I agree with Hovind’s reasons for avoiding federal taxes. But at least I’ve taken the time to understand them. I’d expect people as clearly intelligent as yourselves to try to get the facts straight regarding his case before yammering on about it. Using this case as a hammer against Hovind’s creationist views only makes you look like biased, unreasonable asses. It’s entirely irrelevant AND YOU KNOW IT.

    If fairness interests you, read Hovind’s tax letter posted at http://www.drdino.com.

    DL

  7. DL, you need to re-read the responses. No one here is attacking Hovind’s creationists views because of his views on taxes. As for it being a “fairly well established fact that there is no constitutional, legal authority for the federal tax system” I would suggest you stop reading Hovind’s silly books and try reading the U.S. Constitution.

    U.S. Constitution, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    I don’t know about you, but that pretty much sounds like a Constitutional legal authority for establishing a federal tax system. So, yeah, we might look like biased and unreasonable asses, but you look pretty fucking stupid right about now.

  8. Also check the 16th ammendment:

    The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

    The tax evaders try to get out of taxes by claiming the 16th ammendment wasn’t properly ratified.

    Without the 16th ammendment the gov’t wouldn’t be able to collect taxes the way they currently do because it isn’t uniform among the states (that is why they needed the “without apportionment” language in the 16th ammendment).

  9. DL,

    Had you followed my link you would have seen that, in an previous case, Hovind claimed that since eveything he had belonged to God, he didn’t have to pay income tax.

    For some reason the court did not find in his favor.

  10. If God is not real then why do you people spend so much time trying to prove he doesnt exist or attacking thos who beleive obviosly you must have doubt in your own mind as to whether he really exist or not. Other wise you wouldnt have whole websites dedicated to this matter. Anyway God is real and he is coming whether you believe it or not is your matter let your blood be upon your own shoulders. Funny how an atheist website will now say that God does exist. Ha Ha Ha

  11. Well duh Forrester… The REAL one! Isn’t it obvious?

    And my submission word: ‘fact’. How much more burning bush can you get?

  12. obviously you must have some doubt in your mind as to whether he really exists or not

    Not really.

    And the reason unbelievers discuss it so much is because of the rather substantial number of believers who insist on using their fantasy as a justification for passing laws that dictate how the unbelievers can, or cannot, live their lives.

    I don’t care if the guy next door thinks that his dog is talking to him.  That’s none of my business.  If the guy next door thinks that his dog is telling him that he should shoot me,—then—I’m concerned with it.

    But understanding this requires basic thinking skills.  So read that last comment again, r e a l l y   s l o w l y.

    I’m betting you STILL won’t get it.

    capcha “brock”  LOL.

  13. I tried looking for Jesus, but he wasn’t anywhere to be found. Not even behind the refrigerator and whenever you lose something it’s almost ALWAYS behind the fridge.

  14. I was moving once and thought I’d found Jesus behind some old boxes.  Turns out it was just a dusty Jesuit.  The search for God is like ‘Where’s Waldo’ without the book.

  15. If God is not real then why do you people spend so much time trying to prove he doesnt exist
    Because people keep trying to prove he does with inane shit like “A bird pooped on me!  God DOES exist!” or “That idea is too complex for me to understand, so it obviously had to be created by God”. 

    If you dont find Jesus then you will burn.  Hey, he’s YOUR god, you get YOUR ass out there and look for him.  Have you tried the Center for Missing and Exploited Gods?

    Maybe if he got chipped, he’d be easier to find…

  16. Hey Eric;

    Betcha my God is more forgiving, omniscient, and omnipotent than yours! 

    Sound familiar? It should, if you remember your history, especially world history. More blood has been shed fighting over religious belief than over any other issue. Don’t forget even the Nazis believed in God, fervently. Consider the Vatican’s position during WW2, they stayed remarkably distant during those trying times, (probably because they liked the idea of having a bulwark against communism and Judaism).

    Heard about the Vatican pipeline to South America? Yes, God’s representatives are great indeed!

    On the opposite side communists are heathens, yet they have been among the worst in making people disappear, (mostly in the middle of the night) -witness Stalin, Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.

    In a historical sense, whether you believe does not make a difference when it comes to butchering people and the victor always writes history.(( As an aside, and for an interesting twist on the “belief

  17. Hey Forester,

    Do you realize you are speaking to, mostly, atheists here? You seem, at times, to be preaching to the choir and then you end you post with “God bless”. Do you see Eric’s sarcasm or are you using your own? I can’t tell!

  18. I believe Forester is relatively new to SEB and Eric hasn’t been particularly active lately so it’s likely he’s not familiar with the fact that Eric is an atheist and was trying to be humorously sarcastic in his response.

  19. Les and Spocko;

    Eric’s comment was an opportunity to rant, although I could not be sure about his sarcasm. Sarcasm begets more sarcasm.

    Les is right, I’ve recently come across SEB, and I like its irreverent nature, albeit cerebral and civilized comment threads.

    As to the belief part, I haven’t set foot in a church for anything other than site seeing. Admiteddly getting married (Yikes!)in one of them is a scary prospect.

    Zig heil!

  20. Spocko, how did you like your judges?  I was married once by a town hall official, but I think for overall entertainment value, getting married by an astrophysicist/Unitarian minister is best.

    (Welcome Forester!)

    (“next”)

  21. Okay, I wasn’t going to say anything about this but I have to point out what I felt was compelling evidence of my joke thereby killing all humor that may have been in the post.

    1) God Is Real makes his first post saying, well, nothing except that people like me are going to burn in hell. Whatever.

    2) GOD IS REAL makes his second post but seems to have suddenly woke up and emphatically proved that god must surely be real by his use of caps lock. More pointless rambling ensues.

    3) Forester (sorry for the previous misspelling) asks ‘Exactly which God are we referring to here?’. May I remind you that this came immediately after TWO posts asserting that ‘god is real’.

    4) I state what I feel MUST be obvious to everyone that ‘Well duh Forrester… The REAL one! Isn’t it obvious?’ God is real. God is real. God is real. The real one…ding, ding, ding!!! I added a smiley at the end of the post, what more do you want, sarcasm tags?

    Maybe the Duh threw you, but that’s why I used the smiley, as a visual indicator of mirth. Please copy and save this text as reference for the next time you feel offended by one of my posts. I guarantee that if I had meant to offend you there would have been no question as to my intent.

    (note use of smiley)

  22. Hi GeekMom,

    Those judges were kinda dry.

    The last wedding I went to I couldn’t tell for sure but I think the
    minister/priest/pastor/witchdoctor/whatever may have
    been one of these astrophysicists you speak of.

    She said something about the whole thing being witnessed
    by the “God of the Universe”.
    You are right - it did provide a bit of entertainment!

  23. I happened to come across this website.  I’m impressed with the fact that people like you are the ones who have hurled this country into the immorality sewer that it is in.  How about answering me just one question?  I am willing to bet that if you can guarantee me that God does not exist, that you have knowledge that spans this universe.  Lets put it to the test.  Has there ever been an incident where matter that is left alone has given rise to information??  Since you know for a fact that there is no God, this should be a rather simple question for you.  I’ll be waiting for your answer.  Good Luck.  I’ll give you another one if that is too hard for you.  How many amino acids must be present to form one protein.  What are the odds of all of these amino acids being present at the same place and at the same time?  Surely a man with your incredibly vast inteligence can answer one of these questions.

  24. I’m impressed with the fact that people like you are the ones who have hurled this country into the immorality sewer that it is in.

    Thank you. We aim to please.

    Since you know for a fact that there is no God

    A common misconception, aye? Few, if any, of the atheist posters here make the positive claim that god does not exist; we simply lack belief. The burden of proof is squarely on you to make a case for god.

    Has there ever been an incident where matter that is left alone has given rise to information??

    Trivial. If any of the light bulbs in our living room blows out today, I’ll count this as 1, otherwise 0. Or did you have another definition of ‘information’ in mind?

  25. My opening remark was not meant to be a compliment.  In regards to the burden of proof being on me, you are wrong there too.  The job of any Christian is just to tell you what you need to know.  It is not our job to change you, that is up to the Holy Spirit.  Besides the Bible states that we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.  It dosen’t matter what other people around you think, it is up to you.  As far as my email adress, you did say it was optional, besides you don’t really have a need to know nor is it relevant. I couldn’t help to notice that you still haven’t answered my question.  In regard to your question about information, why don’t we look at something simple, say DNA.  DNA as you know is a code.  When has there ever been a clump of matter that has given rise to information (codes) in a laboratory setting?

  26. My opening remark was not meant to be a compliment.

    I knew, which is why it is was received as such.

    In regards to the burden of proof being on me, you are wrong there too.

    Nope. No amount of hand-waving will release you from the burden of proof. You make a claim, we don’t. Your problem.

    As far as your proselytizing is concerned, I will gladly dispute with the priest of the most worthy god.

    As far as my email adress, you did say it was optional, besides you don’t really have a need to know nor is it relevant.

    You try to convert us and it’s not relevant who you are?

    I couldn’t help to notice that you still haven’t answered my question.

    You have no need to know.

  27. Where is the relevance in that question?  Are you trying to say that DNA is incredibly complex?  Wow.  We live in a complex world.

    As far as information is concerned, it is very subjective as Elwedriddsche pointed out earlier.  While you may find something informative (a Hovind lecture for example), I would find it to be the equivalent of watching Jerry Springer.

    What are the odds of a supreme being creating life and then condemning over 90% of mankind to an eternity of damnation?

    What are the odds that a supreme being would only choose to pass on her laws and guidance some 2000 years ago and never be heard from again?

    What are the odds that a supreme being would create another being that she could not communicate with?

    Enjoy the indentured servitude of fear and trembling and before you take of on one of your scientific tirades, why don’t you start with some scientific principles and begin with the known and work backward.  Introducing an imaginary being into the equation is simplistic thinking at its worst and I would wager that given a few days brighter minds could develop a better creationist hoax than the one purported within the fables of the bible.

  28. And to make this explicit, there are ways to start a serious discussion about evolution and abiogenesis.

    Revelator disqualifies him- or herself by trying to initiate a standard pattern:

    creationist ask “stumper” question.
    scientist answers.

    creationist asks another “stumper” question.
    scientist answers.

    [repeat ad nauseam]

    creationist asks another “stumper” question.
    scientist leaves in disgust

    creationist declares “Mission Accomplished”

  29. My opening remark was not meant to be a compliment.

    And yet, coming from you, it ends up being a form of high praise.

    In regards to the burden of proof being on me, you are wrong there too.

    Nope, he’s not. You’re making the claim so you bear the burden of proof.

    The job of any Christian is just to tell you what you need to know.

    Who are you to decide what I “need” to know? Why should I listen to some random jackass who comes along and opens up his conversation with a sad excuse for an insult?

    It is not our job to change you, that is up to the Holy Spirit.

    If it’s not your job then stop trying. Shut the hell up and let the Holy Spirit do its job. Though I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for it to happen if I were you.

    Besides the Bible states that we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It dosen’t matter what other people around you think, it is up to you.

    Then I again ask why you’re bothering?

    As far as my email adress, you did say it was optional, besides you don’t really have a need to know nor is it relevant.

    Yes, it’s optional, but that doesn’t mean you’re not a wuss if you don’t leave one.

    It’s optional because I got sick of dumbass wussies who would put in a fake email address, but didn’t bother to uncheck the “Notify Me Of Replies” box so it would generate a lot of bounced emails.

    If I don’t see an email address then it’s usually safe to assume that the commenter in question won’t be back so there’s little point putting much effort into a reply.

    I couldn’t help to notice that you still haven’t answered my question.  In regard to your question about information, why don’t we look at something simple, say DNA.  DNA as you know is a code.  When has there ever been a clump of matter that has given rise to information (codes) in a laboratory setting?

    It’s not a relevant question to the topic at hand.

  30. Oh, it’s another Hovind idiot.  Les, you ought to consider closing all the Hovind threads; I’ll bet that will get rid of the majority of the nutjobs.

    Or maybe if the Irrelevator hangs around, I can get him to see the light and accept Mr. Smee as his personal Savior.  There’s a lot less fear and trembling (not to mention salivation) when you bask in the light of the divine Smee.

  31. Lol. This thread was the same as all the ones before. But somehow especially delicious.

    Thanks for the laughs, nowiser, elwed!

  32. And you gravatar is wicked, elwed. It cracks me up all the time. You did that yourself?

  33. I do, in fact, own such a ducky. Gives a whole new meaning to these Sesame Street songs.

  34. Elwedriddsche-

    Nope. No amount of hand-waving will release you from the burden of proof. You make a claim, we don’t. Your problem.

    Response:  Elwed, do you really think that God is just going to plop Himself in your lap just so you can believe?  The thing about God is that you have to have the faith to seek Him.  He will never force Himself upon you.  You have to come to Him by choice.  Jesus Christ Himself said in John 20:29 “because you have seen me you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen me yet have believed.”  It is not the bad things in life we do that send us to the depths of Hell, it is what we failed to do.  That being surrendering our life to Christ.  It dosen’t matter how good we are, how much money we made, or what we accomplished in life, if we have never accepted Jesus, you are going to go to a place where the worm never dies, a place of unrelenting torment, unquenching fire and gnashing of teeth.  Christ describes Hell more than anyone else in the Bible, I guess He would know.  Sorry, whether you want to believe it or not, it is your soul, your eternity, your choice, your problem.  What are you going to do?  How horrible it will be for you if you were to die tomorrow.  When you are taking that last terrifying breath here on earth not knowing what lies ahead, I wonder if you will be standing before God as your judge or your savior?  Only you know the answer to that.  Don’t take it from me, read it for yourself in the Word of God.  There are two types of people in the world.  Either you are one who pleases God and offends the world or you please the world and offend God.  Which one are you?  You can’t sit on the fence forever.  Someday, sooner than you think, you are going to have to make your choice.  I am here to tell you Elwed, that God has a plan for you.  He dosen’t want you to perish.  He sent His son for you.  Sometimes I wonder if we were worth it.  Every time the answer comes back to me as “Yes”.  I challenge you to keep talking to me.  The truth of God’s existence has been written on your heart and it is that which is screaming for you to listen to me right now.

  35. Thus concludes: Standard Christian Sermon #231 cut and pasted with deft skill from the Standard Christian Sermon Handbook for Apologists Attempting To Score Big Points In The After-Life.

    Next up, more of the same silly drivel.

  36. Sorry Les.  That came from the heart.  There is no such book.  It sounds like youn have a real problem with Christians.  What is it that turns you away from God?

  37. I know there’s no such book, but it sounds like there could be. There wasn’t a single thing in it that hasn’t been regurgitated by countless others that stop by here from time to time.

    As for having a problem with Christians, in general I don’t have a problem with most of them. I only tend to have problems with the ones who show up and start telling the rest of us how wrong we are and when challenged to support their claims they refuse and resort to the same tired drivel presented as though it were unquestionably true only to act as though they can’t understand why they’re getting a hostile reaction from us.

    We’re more than happy to debate the possibility of a God or Gods, but if all you’re going to do is proselytize then you’re wasting your time.

    What turns me away from God? I don’t believe there’s a God to turn away from. I can’t turn away from something that doesn’t exist. As for the details on my fall from grace (as it were) I suggest you start digging through the archives here. It’s been spelled out many times before and I really don’t feel like repeating it for the umpteenth time because you’re too lazy to look it up.

  38. Nevermind Les, I found it.  I’m curious Les.  Do you believe that Jesus Christ existed?  I also wonder why it is you celebrate Christmas since it celebrates the birth of Christ.  I read your article about atheism.  It was nice to read something that wasn’t so hostile.  I do have a clearer understanding of atheists.  Did you ever at one time go to church?  I haven’t found anything on that yet.

  39. Revelator, thank you for your embellished version of Pascal’s Wager. I reject it. Please, no special pleading, appeal to emotion, or other fallacies. Here’s a hint: You have to show evidence of god’s existence without presupposing it.

  40. Les, you seem to have an answer for everything.  With you being an atheist, not believeing in God despite all the evidence around you, how is it that you believe that tomorrow will be here when there is no shred of evidence that it even exists? How do you believe in one and not the other?.  Sounds like to me that you choose what you want to believe and you don’t believe in God because you fear the accountability of your life. Some things can not be proven.  For instance, Did you love your father?  (yes or no)

  41. you seem to have an answer for everything.

    Nobody has an answer for everything. Except theists: “God did it”.

    With you being an atheist, not believeing in God despite all the evidence around you,

    Which evidence?

    how is it that you believe that tomorrow will be here when there is no shred of evidence that it even exists? How do you believe in one and not the other?.  Sounds like to me that you choose what you want to believe

    We don’t know for a fact that there will be a tomorrow, but based on past experience we can justifyably conjecture that there is. God, on the other hand, amounts to nothing more than unjustified belief.

    and you don’t believe in God because you fear the accountability of your life. Some things can not be proven.  For instance, Did you love your father?  (yes or no)

    Here we launch into the “running out of arguments, let’s to psychoanalyze the atheist” stage. And I detect a smidgen of the “atheists have no basis for morals” play.

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