The Constitution of the United States of America - NOW with God’s law!

It makes sense that if the founding father’s could not see fit to include unambiguous language in the Constitution that would allow enforced Christian beliefs upon ALL of Americans citizens then a group of extremist nutballs should take it upon themselves to amend it. So offended was (D) Senator Zell Miller, GA by the half-time appearance of Janet Jackson’s breast during the Super Bowl (a far Left conspiracy apparently), that he wants us all to know that:

I am pleased to be a co-sponsor of S.J. Res. 26 along with Sen. Allard and others, proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relating to marriage. And S.1558, the Liberties Restoration Act, which declares religious liberty rights in several ways, including the pledge of allegiance and the display of the Ten Commandments. And today I join Sen. Shelby and others with the Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 that limits the jurisdiction of federal courts in certain ways.

In doing so, I stand shoulder to shoulder not only with my Senate co-sponsors and Chief Justice Roy Moore of Alabama but, more importantly, with our Founding Fathers in the conception of religious liberty and the terribly wrong direction our modern judiciary has taken us in.

Ladies and gentlemen, do not take my word that these proposals are bad for anyone who does not yearn for the days of tri-corner hats, buckles on shoes, and witch trials, read them. They almost seem reasonable if you hate gays and get off on imposing your religious views on an entire nation. If you want the American Taliban calling the shots regarding your dress, your sex life, the abolishing of separation between church and state, then I would suggest that you do nothing. It looks like it is time for me to once again contact my representatives to oppose these measures, I just hope I have not found out about this too late.

See also Scott’s input on this.

142 thoughts on “The Constitution of the United States of America - NOW with God’s law!

  1. Jeeeeeeezus!!!! I want so badly to believe this is a joke.

    I’ve been worrying about what Roy Moore was cooking up, and now I know.

    I feel sick.

  2. You live in a scary country. You realize that Bush has been quoted as saying (I paraphrase) that atheists should not be considered citizens.

    What worries me is that ideas from the Religious Reich flow across our shared border, free trade or not.

    Good luck.

  3. Thanks for posting this Eric, I was meaning to link it up myself earlier after reading it off of Scott’s site. I’m so angry I’m beside myself right now.

  4. I am not sure about this particular ammendment posted but the the most certain ammendment that will be made will be to define marriage.  there should be no one single religion or any for that matter but we must hold true to the fabric that holds our nation together and that is family.  the downfall of every great civilization has been the legalization and acceptance of same sex marriage.

  5. The fabric that holds our nation together is FREEDOM.

    Family is great. But family is defined by more than just the product (or potential product) of one’s loins. You can’t go around defining family for other people.

    Surely I’m also party to the downfall of our civilization. I’m married and yet refuse to have children and be a nice hetero family unit.

    [crash!] Sorry guys, my fault.

  6. How can any rational, thinking person possibly support ANY of this bullshit?  This is America!  Worship Jesus or Satan or a pile of catshit for all I care, but do it in the privacy of your own home.  Keep your bloody, perverted mitts off the Constitution; and your judgemental hypocrisy to yourselves.

    We need a revolution, people!  A small number of vocal people are marching us toward a theocracy, because they’re the only people VOTING.

    And ^5 to ya Brandi!  I share your nausea over what’s becoming of my country… truly heartbreaking.  I believe Lady Liberty may be breathing her last.

    Great site, BTW :-D

  7. Oh, I vote. And shit like this in recent years can take the credit for that.

    In a strange way, I’m glad alot of these ridiculous issues are coming to a head. I think it motivates alot of people who wouldn’t otherwise vote or care to do so.

    These types of lifestyle nazis have always been present in our culture. I don’t think they’re anything new. It just used to be easier for them to operate under the radar of the average enlightened American. But the internet sure does make it hard for them to hide, doesn’t it? Their crimes against our sanity fly over blogs and message boards like raging wildfire, often rivaling the speed of traditional news outlets, I’ve noticed. And I just love that.

  8. the downfall of every great civilization has been the legalization and acceptance of same sex marriage
    Oh please! Same sex marriage has been legal in Sweden for years and our civilization has not crumbled yet.

  9. maria i said great civilizations, not just nations that want to exist.  you must understand that to have something great there must be sacrifice.  America is a great nation because it leads.  It leads because its leaders have some type of value that are based on BELIEFS. Yes peopel in America have the right to worship whatever they want even a pile of catshit.  but i doubt a person who worships a pile of catshit is willing to die for that catshit or anything else he or she believes.  Sweden and many other countries are indiffernt, and lukewarm to much of the worlds issues.  what has been swedens latest contribution as a government?

  10. It is things like this makes me ashamed to be from Colorado and have Wayne Allard as my Senator.
    :paperbag:
    Our Founding Fathers must be doing somersaults in their graves.  What happened to separation of Church and State?
    As far as Atheists not being citizens according to the shrub, I wouldn’t be surprised.  He’s already has said that he doesn’t think Witches are should have any rights.

  11. Brandi how do you define freedom?  freedom to do whatever the individual feels or chooses?  why do you think we have any laws at all.  why is it a crime to speed, steal, rape, or murder?  if we allow EVERYONE to do as they feel, then we would have chaos.  unfortunately there are people in our nation that need others to do the thinking for them.  why cant someone define family for them?  obviously some people do not know what family is.  what is the definition of honesty?  What is the definition of truth?  people today want to make their own rules and definitions.  that is not freedom, it is chaos.

  12. amanda, you should be proud to live in colorado, the great home of john elway!  as for your belief in the comment of bush toward atheists, i suggest you have it documented before you accept it as truth.  as far as our founding fathers, if you would research it, the modern day definition of church and state is a myth.  America is America because of the God it trusts.  And that God is not mankind.

  13. As far as I can remember, Sweden has made some absolutely dynamite contributions just about every year.  I am sorry to say that they haven’t contributed any wars to the world at large lately… work harder Sweden… I’m rootin’ for ya!

    I’ve never understood the “my country is the only one that’s worth a shit” attitude. 

    Frac: That was the elder Bush if I remember correctly.

  14. kevin….there are lots of countries that make contributions.  britian for example.  but America is the greatest nation on earth. no matter who is in office. rep, dem, lib, or ind.  the people in america that choose to stand for what is good and right make America a great nation.

    I think my wife is the best, my kids are the best, my school is the best, and i think my nation is the best. sorry if that offends you.

  15. I don’t think my country is the best just cos I happened to be born here, that would be incredibly lucky don’t you think?  Sure a lot of people have local loyalties, but I suspect that every die-hard football fan in America secretly knows that his local team he loves are not necessarily the best, otherwise how come they don’t win everything. Give me Sweden anyday

  16. Good lord, Randall. “Freedom” is not anarchy or chaos. Freedom means that, yes, you have the right to do whatever you want SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS. It is not a difficult concept. That’s why we have laws about stealing, rape, and murder…they unjustly infringe on others.

    You can’t define family for others simply because it is none of your business. Their choice in definition of family does not infringe on the rights of anyone else.

    Tell me, since you seem to be pretty smug about your definition of family…what is it? And why?

    I’m a married heterosexual, do I fit your definition of family/marriage?

  17. Randall is cracking me up. I know I shouldn’t be laughing because he’s representative of too much of the population, but he’s so impressively knee-jerk in his thinking that I can’t help myself. All emotion, no substance. He has solid beliefs, but nothing in the way of valid reasons for them. Why is his country the best? Because it’s HIS country! Same reason his wife, kids, school, car, dog, outdoor grill, underwear and cologne are the best! If it’s his then it MUST be the BEST! That’s just too damned funny.

    the downfall of every great civilization has been the legalization and acceptance of same sex marriage.

    Name one.

    you must understand that to have something great there must be sacrifice.

    So what did you sacrifice to have your great wife, kids, etc?

    America is a great nation because it leads. It leads because its leaders have some type of value that are based on BELIEFS.

    I wish this nation would lead more on the basis of facts than of beliefs. Bush Jr. believed there were WMDs in Iraq, his belief has so far proven to be far from the facts. Oops.

    Brandi how do you define freedom? freedom to do whatever the individual feels or chooses? why do you think we have any laws at all. why is it a crime to speed, steal, rape, or murder? if we allow EVERYONE to do as they feel, then we would have chaos.

    The Founding Fathers defined it as being free to do whatever you want as long as it doesn’t harm the person or property of another. That’s a pretty basic, but decent viewpoint to take in my book. You’re correct that society does require a certain level of cooperation among it’s members which includes rules restricting one’s freedom to some degree, but what you’re describing is far view most people’s views on what Freedom should be.

    unfortunately there are people in our nation that need others to do the thinking for them. why cant someone define family for them?

    Why can’t we just show these people why thinking for themselves is preferable? Oh, I’m sorry, I keep forgetting that you don’t really want a populace capable of thinking for themselves as they might disagree with your personal viewpoints. What makes you think you should be the one doing the thinking for these people?

    obviously some people do not know what family is. what is the definition of honesty? What is the definition of truth? people today want to make their own rules and definitions. that is not freedom, it is chaos.

    Disputes over definitions is hardly chaos. It can confuse the situation and it’s helpful if we all agree on what something means, but chaos isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

    amanda, you should be proud to live in colorado, the great home of john elway! as for your belief in the comment of bush toward atheists, i suggest you have it documented before you accept it as truth.

    John Elway is an asshole, but that’s just my personal opinion. I do agree with you encouraging Amanda to verify the quote from Bush on atheists, however. For the record it was Bush Sr. who said it at a news conference in Chicago on August 27, 1987 to a question posed by Rob Sherman who was covering the event. You can read about it here. Sherman’s been called upon to prove the quotation many times and he’s recently located an official record of the exchange. The quote reads as follows: “I don’t know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic.  This is one nation under God.”

    as far as our founding fathers, if you would research it, the modern day definition of church and state is a myth. America is America because of the God it trusts. And that God is not mankind.

    You obviously haven’t researched it. We’ve covered this one many times here at SEB. I suggest you do some searching through our archives. Jefferson and Adams both spoke on the issue and made it clear this was the intent of the First Amendment. “In God We Trust” didn’t become the official national motto until 1956 so calling upon that as proof of our religious heritage is dubious at best.

    This is just sad. Laughingly so. I really wish someone would show up who has some new arguments to make on these issues rather than just trumpeting the same tired old crap over and over again.

  18. That sort of thinking really does represent a large part of the population, and it scsres the bejeezus out of me. It reminds me much of my rudimentary take on things (minus religion) when I was 16. Those are often the conclusions about freedom and the purpose of laws that many people come to when left on their own or never think it through. And precious few ever get past it…

    If only everyone was as lucky as I to have Mr. Draveky for highschool Government class.

  19. les,  i am glad that i am cracking you up perhaps it will get the old endorphins rollin in your system…

    dave where do you live?  america rules!!!

  20. George W. weighs in.

    From CNN Breaking News. “President Bush announces he supports a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.”

  21. Okay, a few replies since I started typing, so my apologies if I end up repeating someone’s remarks…

    the downfall of every great civilization has been the legalization and acceptance of same sex marriage

    Yeah…  just what they teach in every Western Civ and World History class. 

    Care to give us some examples?  Apparently most people here don’t buy into your statement. 

    I can’t seem to remember how butt sex felled the Roman Empire from my Western Civ class.  The Romans sure seemed to be doing fine before that Jesus dude showed up…

    It leads because its leaders have some type of value that are based on BELIEFS.

    The English have beliefs, and have for quite some time.  So what happened to that world spanning English Empire that the sun never sat on?  The Spanish have beliefs - they and the Portuguese had the Pope’s blessing on splitting the New World and Africa between themselves and coverting all those heathens.  So, like, what happened to those empires of the faithful? 

    America leads right now b/c we are the biggest f’ing dog on the street. 

    people today want to make their own rules and definitions. that is not freedom, it is chaos.
    Chaos is the LACK of rules and definitions. 

    unfortunately there are people in our nation that need others to do the thinking for them. why cant someone define family for them? obviously some people do not know what family is.
    Ahh, freedom bad… people shouldn’t be thinking for themselves.  Bastards might end up disagreeing with you.  Tolerance and understanding might break out - wouldn’t that be the end of society.

  22. Randall, you can feel proud about the US all you want. Its a healthy feeling, as long as it doesn’t blind you to the bad parts. Your comments however show that you seem to consider criticism of your country slanderous (get right in line with Mrs. Coulter).

    The great thing about democracy and a free press is that all kinds of people can try their hand at the problems of their society. Its not a perfect tool to reach ‘the best for the largest number of people’* but it’s the best and most adaptable we’ve found so far.

    Far better than having one man or a small slice of the people telling us how to live.

    *By the way: add ‘while respecting the basic rights of all’ and you got a nice improvised recipe for utopia.

  23. Sorry Les, you got me on the Atheist thing.  I can just see shrub saying the same thing about Atheists that he did about Witches.  Considering that his daddy said it, he probably believes it is true anyway.
    Regardless, this whole thing just bugs me.  I hold out hope that someone in Congress with a brain will rebuff this effort.  However, since they passed the DoMA, I don’t have high expectations.

  24. ingolfson…..you’ve got me all wrong.  yes i am proud to be an American, but I am not blind to the bad parts.  I do not agree with all of any of bush’s ideas.  i do not think that we are a great a nation as we once were.  i am no where near mrs. coulter.  i believe that every American has the right to say whatever about our country they want even if it slanderous, and would not have ill feelings toward the person that did so.  i think our nation is in trouble in many areas, economically, socially, education, etc.  America is great because of the people, Christian, muslim, atheist.  it is great because of the rich, and poor.  you are right about free press and democracy.  thats whats cool about this web-site different beliefs, opinions etc.  i do not want people to think exactly how i think.  if so every one would hunt, cheer for john elway, and go to my church.  the fact that each of us has a free will, with an ability to choose and think for themselves is to me what really shows God’s love for us.  there are probably a few things that you could see about my life, family, church etc that i do not see that could help me out.  i am not a right winger republican Christian, i am just a guy that cares.

  25. ragman, same sex realations and its acceptance in society lead to the downfall of the greeks and romans.  there is a reason it is against the law in America as well.  there are many americans that need people to do the thinking for them.  it is called training.  just like children need their parents to do the thinking for them.  the rapeist, murderer, drunk driver, etc. need someone to do the thinking for them, because apparently they can not do it for themselves.  but if they had their way they could rape, murder etc, with no obligation or consequence.  i do not believe that anyone should make people believe a certain way.  it should not be against the law in america to be an atheist, a witch, a republican, a homosexual, but same sex marriage is a counterfit of the real thing.  marriage is what it is a covenant between a man and woman.  but just because you and i dont agree on that does not mean that we have to be enemies or that you have to be disgusted with me.  i am only expressing my beliefs.  i am not telling you what you should believe, only what i believe and live for and am willing to die for.  so what if i am a moron to you and most on this site.  i happen to enjoy being a person that deals with lifes struggles like the next guy, and also life joys.  i am not the most educated man in the world but i do have convictions and appreciate anyone who does so, even if they oppose mine….p.s. Jesus was more than a dude…peace out!

  26. there are many americans that need people to do the thinking for them.  it is called training.  just like children need their parents to do the thinking for them.  the rapeist, murderer, drunk driver, etc. need someone to do the thinking for them, because apparently they can not do it for themselves.  but if they had their way they could rape, murder etc, with no obligation or consequence.

    You are missing the point again. Those crimes INFRINGE on the rights and liberties of others, and should therefor be punished and curtailed by the government. Same sex marriage doesn’t infringe on anyone else’s rights or liberties.

    THAT is the litmus test - Does the activity in question infringe on the rights, liberty, and safety of others without their consent?

    In the case of same sex marriage, the answer is no.

  27. same sex realations and its acceptance in society lead to the downfall of the greeks and romans

    LOL!

    That was a joke, right?  I mean, it didn’t have anything to do with Rome’s massive imperial expansion, Romans going “native,” Roman generals constantly trying to seize the empire by force, infighting between the citystates of Greece, 600+ years of Celtic incursions followed by the incursions of Germanic tribes.  Nope.  It was all due to the “moral decline” caused by homosexuality!  Geez.  Gibbons’ argument that the fall of Rome was due to Christianity was a more compelling argument.

    Whew.  For a second there, I thought you were serious!

  28. same sex realations and its acceptance in society lead to the downfall of the greeks and romans.
    Bullshit.  Prove it.

    there is a reason it is against the law in America as well.
    Being gay isn’t against the law.  You can’t jail anyone for claiming to be married to someone of the same sex.  It’s a question of govt recognition of the same sex marriage. 

    there are many americans that need people to do the thinking for them. it is called training. just like children need their parents to do the thinking for them. the rapeist, murderer, drunk driver, etc. need someone to do the thinking for them, because apparently they can not do it for themselves. 
    Children should be TAUGHT to think for themselves.  To understand WHY we have laws.  You’re just advocating raising children as sheep - obedience over understanding.  That just gives us adults who can’t think for themselves and can’t solve problems that they were not TRAINED to.  Which means we’ll have adults who don’t THINK for themselves, so how can they think for their kids?

    The US did not become a world power b/c we are obedient and stick to only what we were taught, but b/c people were willing to take risks and think differently.

  29. Has anyone ever read this Onion article Bush Nightmare ?

    It was written shortly after Bush took office and although a goof, almost everything in it has come true.  I think someone at the Onion must be a psychic.

  30. brandi, same sex marriage DOES infringe on the rights of others.  it infringes on the rights of their children.  there is a reason that it takes a male and a female to produce a child.  homosexuality is a perversion, not a civil right.

  31. Excuse me? Their “children”? Do you mean the children they might adopt or the hypothetical biological children they won’t be blessing the world with?

  32. the right to have a mother and father, the right that is also taken away by a lot of other circumstances other than same sex relationships.

  33. randall - Children have the right to education, safety, and their necessities. Single and/or gay parents are not the ones infringing on those rights, and I am sick of hearing we are. Are you REALLY concerned about the children in this country? Then spend your energy keeping child molestors and abusers behind bars. Stop depending on the government to provide adequate education and donate books, time, and/or designated money to the schools. Teach divorced parents to make the divorce work for their kids where their marriage failed. Teach the children respect, compassion, and honesty. Hold our teachers in high regard and demand they are worth it. Work to better the foster care system.

    If you REALLY want to help the kids in this country, there are a million better places to start than whining about whether they have a mother AND a father. Kids who grow up in a loving, safe home do just fine whether they have one parent or two parents of the same sex. It is only the grown-ups who “run from this truth.”

  34. randall said:
    “homosexuality is a perversion”

    Dude you are fucked up, but you’re true to the mold of the garden variety Christian: hateful, judgmental, ignorant, proud of self, fearful, vitriolic! You really need to stop going to church and start witnessing life.

    I tend to think hunting is a perversion, but you have a Constitutional right to be a hunter. There’s nothing I can do to deny you your right. But if I ever do have the right, in spite of people like you, to get married; just to show you how accepting I am, I’ll let you dance at my wedding. How’s that sound?

  35. Sorry, Covie, I was posting at the same time you were and didn’t read what you said. Otherwise, I would have added “well said” to my post.

    Really helping kids and loving others isn’t what some people are about, so I have my doubts that anything you said touched randall in any way other than to make him laugh.

  36. I guess this forum has really surprised me, the more topics I read, the more it becomes “Our country is against us, look at this article, these guys are threatening our liberty.”  I mean come on, who of you who so vehemently protest these infringements on your rights are actually doing something about it?  A few may respond saying “I wrote a letter to my senator saying this” or “I went and joined a protest against this”, but its not implausable that half of you have never even voted.  I dont know, I am not the best when it comes to rhetoric (as has been proven by some former posts of mine)  But seriously, get off your asses and stop feeling sorry for yourselves, you act like you are so outnumbered by this swelling army of Christians and fundamentalists breathing down your throat.  Life in this country has become so easy, and its people so weak, that they have to go and dig up causes to fight for.  Here you are fighting for gay marriages.  Why dont you go fight for the homeless of our country?  Why not fight for peoples right to LIVE instead of their right not to have to see the 10 commandments in a courtroom.  Pick your battles people.

    Most of you are of the belief that Christians as a whole want to burn the gays out of our country.  This is a horrible, horrible mistake, as you have been influenced by the views of a few.  As a follower of Christ, it is not my job to force you to do anything, just tell you what I already know to be true, and leave the decision up to you.  I dont want the joining of church and state, many Christians dont, because of that fact.  No one is going to respond to your beliefs if you force them into their lives.  The only thing that can possibly happen is this situation, the outrage of a few that their liberties are being threatened, which doesnt do anyone any good.

  37. brock…  what have i said that is hateful, judgemental, or any of the other things i will have to look up vitriolic.  i have not sentenced anyone to hell, only posted my views that it works best if a family is a husband and wife as far as children are concerned.  and you are wrong because covie is right about all of those things. and i am for those things as strongly as i am for a marriage being man/woman.  no i did not laugh at her post.  i am not some religious nut that gets off by staying up and night provoking homosexuals and athiests.  i have hurts, pains, frustrations, and sins just like the next person.  i simply believe that dads should stay committed to their wives, and marriage should be between a man and woman.  i work with children every day and see the pain that an absetee dad and sometimes mom causes.  i have friends that have recently decided on divorce and they admit for wrong reasons.  i have a friend who is homosexual, comes to my church and yet knows my views.  he know i do not hate him his homosexual friends know i do not hate him.  i know his pain of depression and a broken family and unacceptance.  i do not condemn the divorcee either.  i believe in mercy, grace and forgiveness.  i need it desperately myself.  i would love to be perfect and sinless, i have tried and failed miserably.  it is only by God’s grace that i am able to keep my great family intact.  just dont assume i hate you just because i disagree with you. and yes according to scripture, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, etc, etc, of which i am guilty of is a perversion… (perversion) to cause to turn aside or away from what is good or true or morally right.  that is not meant to condemn the homosexual, if it does then i condem myself for past actions as well.  i do not wake up everyday looking to shove my beliefs down someones throat.  i wake up everyday and am fortunate to have a job where i can encourage people that have a lot more to worry about than if the republicans or Christians are stealing their rights.  They people i interact with everyday do not really care what i think about politics or constitutional ammendments they just care that i care…i love you brock…

  38. Why dont you go fight for the homeless of our country? Why not fight for people’s right to LIVE instead of their right not to have to see the 10 commandments in a courtroom.

    Because my ability to resist legislation that deliberately attacks a minority population is far more developed than my ability to attack a tax system that does not want to direct resources to those areas that would create economic and social justice.  In one case, I have to contend with a small group of people who have an extremist position, and rely on rhetoric that is comparatively easy to deconstruct.  In the second case, I am confronting an entire economic structure that funnels money away from social services, and into military and corporate expenditures.  I AM picking my battles.  People will accept the idea of gay marriages long before they accept the idea that society should divert tax funds toward fixing economic/social ills like homelessness.  If you don’t believe it, try running for office on a progressive ticket that advocates increased taxation of corporations, increased social spending on social services, and a slashed military budget.

    you have been influenced by the views of a few 

    And if those few actually manage to pass legislation, I’m going to be influenced by them a lot MORE.  The time to resist IS now. 

    I dont want the joining of church and state, many Christians dont

    Then you’re not the problem.  Congratulations. 

    I’ll join you in saving the homeless when I’ve managed to get American troops out of Iraq, established a just and equitable government in Afghanistan, ended poverty in Latin America, ensured that all of the American children who are in foster homes are adopted into loving families, and fixed the tax code so that 3 billion dollars a year doesn’t go uncollected from companies that are contracting with the American govt. I’m not saying, by any stretch, that homelessness is not an important issue.  It’s probably one of THE most important.

    But that doesn’t mean that all the other struggles out there are insignificant.

    I wish you the best of luck fighting homelessness.

  39. I don’t have time to do a full response right now, but I do have a minor correction I need to make to one of my earlier comments in which I said “John Elway is an asshole.” I’d like to retract that statement as I was thinking of someone else entirely at the time he was brought up and not the person Randall was referring to. So, for the record, I don’t think John Elway is an asshole.

    At least not yet.

  40. Wow, Randall and Tommy are both missing the point.

    Not that I have the energy to wade in, seeing how Randall, in particular, really just spews the same screed ad nauseum.

  41. Thanks, Brock.

    randall - You don’t seem to be the kind who throws judgment from some perceived moral high-ground, I’ll give you that. You seem to believe what you do simply because you just do. So try this one: I am neither homosexual nor atheist. ( I am not a Christian either.) I am however, a single mom who recognized gay marriage as a civil rights issue long before you and so many others grouped me into their supposed debauchery of children’s rights. My daughter is a great kid and doing better in school and in her life in general than most of her friends who were raised by a mother AND a father. I speak for no one else here, but I have noticed a correlation between believing someone else died for your sins and the inability to accept person responsibility, which then creates hostility and blame-placing mentality. The latter seems to have people refusing to see what is truly the cause of society’s ills, and so they place the blame on (for example) single and/or gay parents, and Hollywood. It’s wrong. I have said it once, and I will say it again: Children who grow up in loving, safe homes do just fine no matter if they were raised by one parent, a grandparent, or parents of the same sex. No one can say this is untrue.

    Tommyvdp - I had too much fun and learned too many lessons the hard way to be a politician, so I do what I can from where I can, and civil rights is a worthy battle to my mind. I won’t sit here and checklist my personal achievements for you, but I will say this place is hardly a couch for armchair politicians to bitch about politics and Christians. The Main Bastard, Guest Bastard, and a few evil regulars most often leave sources and references for people to seek answers for themselves, so there is a real challenge to think outside the box here. Getting people to talk about, debate, and think about the issues brought up here is hardly doing nothing of importance. But I can see where that might sit wrong with you, as much as you would like people to just forget about this pesky, current civil rights issue.

    Write on, Bastards and evil free-thinkers! :evillaugh:

  42. john elway would have won 5 super bowls if he would have had a running back, and troy aikman would have never won a super bowl with another team….

  43. covie…i am not saying that a single mom can not raise a child and do a great if not better job than a husband/wife team.  i have friends and family that are single moms and dad and do a great job….as a person that has chosen to follow Christ, you can never truly do so placing the blame on others.  gays, hollywood, mtv, janet jackson, republicans, democrats, teachers, coaches, are not my problem.  i am my problem.  believers like myself should actually live what they believe,  the trouble is that most of us actually do not believe what we say we do.  i do not think it is possible to separate beliefs from actions.  i feel that you do what you believe….if christians lived out the bible, even if Jesus were not real, our world would be a better place.  There is not a problem with the teaching the problem lies within the heart of all man….that is why christianity can not be a religion.  religions deal mostly with action.  Jesus deals with the heart of man.  that is why it is so provoking.  religion says if you do good, dont smoke, drink, have illicit sex, cuss, diobey parents etc, you will be good.  Jesus says even if you do those things you cant be good.  he loves us and accepts us as we are, no matter if that way be a homosexual, husband in adultery, or judgemental believer.  he loves us and holds out hope to us everyday….

  44. Fellow evil freethinker here, just wanting to wholeheartedly agree with this comment:

    Getting people to talk about, debate, and think about the issues brought up here is hardly doing nothing of importance.

    I think some people underestimate the power of increased thought, increased exposure (web), and increased conversation. The exchange of ideas and debates IS powerful. It does change, educate, and enlighten people (who care to learn). If something written here changes someones mind on an issue, or just adds extra support to an idea they already held…that IS something.

    I tend to doubt that people (like those here) who put this kind of time and effort into online debate/communication would actually be of the sort too lazy to vote. IMO, simply being here seems to suggest the person is interested enough in the issues to do what they need to do when necessary…vote, write letters, protest, what-have-you.

    I vote. I write letters. And I’d jump in my car and join a protest if an issue close to my heart came up. I also happen to volunteer my services to causes I support. I’ve donated web sites, ads, consultation, literature designs, flyers, bumper stickers, offer media contacts, pull in favors…you name it.

    If it’s about animal rights, the separation of church and state, abortion rights, or the fourth amendment, I’m in. Call me.

    Of course I can’t be a political activist all day every day, and I certainly can’t spend all my time doing free work, but I damn sure do what I can when the opportunity arises.

    Here you are fighting for gay marriages.  Why dont you go fight for the homeless of our country?  Why not fight for peoples right to LIVE instead of their right not to have to see the 10 commandments in a courtroom.  Pick your battles people.

    I do pick my battles. Very carefully, thank you. And I pick them because they fit with the way I would like to see things operate, and the injustices or roadblocks I see in the way. Doesn’t everybody? The plight of the homeless doesn’t happen to be a cause I’m going to pick up and run with. I certainly don’t want to turn this whole thread into a homeless debate, but, “Why not fight for peoples right to LIVE”…why? because I don’t happen to believe that right is in jeopardy, that’s why. If you want to argue about that, take it to the forums.

    Point is, you are trying to belittle people because they don’t share the same hierarchy of political issues that you do. You seem to think we are lost in the minutia, living comfy lives and just “making up” things to be concerned about. And that really couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s just that some people don’t happen to share your views on what’s important to worry about.

  45. randall, I may have come off a little strong when responding to your “homosexuality is a perversion” statement, but I honestly think you fail to understand why your remark was highly insulting. I think you and other professed Christians use intensely judgmental terms so often that the terms tend to lose their demeaning character with you. You easily define natural inclinations, like sexual interaction between persons not married, as perverse and seem to expect us to thank you for taking the time to decree the shamefulness of our actions. I don’t think you can feel empathy and connectedness to others you’re looking down on. And you know what; it doesn’t help to say “but I’m a sinner too” because it doesn’t wash. By your words, you believe we are naturally sinful and undeserving of Jesus’ love. You seem to think humans are hopelessly unworthy of life (barring supernatural dispensation) regardless of their actions and feelings. This, to me, means you lack sufficient respect for, and pity humanity.

    You pass judgment with nearly every point you make and yet you do not see this. I honestly believe you see yourself as a wise and considerate man, yet many things you’ve spoken of suggest a highly regimented, narrowly focused and inflexible individual.

    You said: 

    …and yes according to scripture, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, etc, etc, of which i am guilty of is a perversion

  46. brock,  sorry if i continue to come across as judgmental in a bad way.  nor do i intend or desire to be insulting.  no i have not had homosexual experiences. i was only lumping in other sexual perversions with it (lust, fornication, adultery etc.)  not that sex issues are the only perversions.  my intent for posting on this site is honestly not to convert atheist to Christianity, or homosexual to heterosexual.  Not that i am ashamed to be doing so if i were.  i am simply trying to understand unbelievers in a better way.  understand, not to convert but to respect, appreciate and (forgive the mushiness) love.  as a Christian that is what i am instructed/commaned to do.  not by man, but by Christ.  you asked me to tell you something without using scripture, but i really cant, because what i believe and who i am is based on the word of God. do i understand it all?  no.  of what i do understand do i apply it perfectly? no.  but what i do know and believe is what i live by.  believe me there is a lot more to me and the bible than anti-homosexual rhetoric.  that is not what draws me to it.  the thing that interests me in Christ is his unconditional love, and his passion for me (us)  forget the do’s and dont’s for a second.  but i am a man of devotion.  i give my self to my life’s mission.  i get involved with things that i am willing to die for.  i am not trying to be good, happy, successful.  those are not the reasons i serve Christ.  that is why i never tell anyone…serve Jesus and you will be happier.  the bible does not promise that.  preachers today promise health and wealth.  nothing wrong with the two, but those things do not intice me.  i want a cause, and to me there is no greater cause than that of christ.  someone will read this and accuse me of bible-thumping.  brock, i am just telling you about me.  a lot of guys on here get upset and use crazy language because radical right wing christians don’t accept certain things.  but very few that post here seem to accept me for who i am either.  i understand that i come across as insulting, though as said, not my intention.  but i dont think that is a christian, republican, heterosexual thing because it is in atheist, dem/ind., homosexuals as well.  it is called human nature.  the same thing that causes certain christians to fall back on the old, “your going to hell heathen” thing is the same thing that causes certain atheists to say fuck you christian and insult our intelligence. i honestly do not look down on others as routine.  if i find myself doing it, i correct it.  you said i was a highly regimented, narrowly focused and inflexible individual.  if that means i don’t compromise what i believe as truth, then i hope you are right.  if that means i only see it my way, then you are wrong.  i know areas of my thinking is flawed that is why i search for truth everyday.  This wont mean anything to you, but to me as a Christian Jesus said that if i abide in His word then i would be his disciple and then i would know the truth and the truth would make me free.  i am just searching for truth, and believe that God uses things to teach me, prepare me, strengthen me, expose me, correct me, etc.  that is why i do not believe i ran across this sit by mistake.  though it does appear view here are totally opposite of mine, there is still only a very thin line that separates all of us….i have bored you enough…later brock.

  47. I think Randall has been doing a fine job here keeping you all riled up. But you all are ignoring some of the key points in this whole topic. Now, I

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