Man on set of Gibson’s “Passion” struck by lightning, twice.

Mel Gibson’s upcoming film The Passion of Christ is already stirring up controversy and inflaming tempers and now it appears to be attracting the wrath of God himself.

Seattle Post-Intelligencer: AP – Movies

NEW YORK—Don’t tell Jan Michelini that lightning doesn’t strike twice. Michelini, an assistant director on Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of Christ,” was nicknamed “Lightning Boy” after lightning struck his umbrella during filming on a hilltop in the town of Matera, Italy, reported VLife, a supplement to Variety publications, in its October issue.

He suffered light burns on the tips of his fingers.

A few months later, while the crew was on a remote location a few hours from Rome, a storm rolled in and Michelini, again carrying an umbrella, was standing beside star Jim Caviezel on top of a hill, the publication said.

“I’m about a hundred feet away from them,” producer Steve McEveety was quoted as saying, “when I glance over and see lightning coming out of Caviezel’s ears. Both Caviezel and Michelini got struck this time. The main bolt hit Caviezel and one of its forks hit Michelini’s umbrella.”

Luckily, they weren’t hurt.

There are several ways we can interpret this. God is pissed, but is also a big fan of Mel Gibson so instead of frying the actor/director himself he decides to singe the hairs of one of his crew members to see if the message gets across. Or, God is pissed and has lousy aim. Or, God is pissed and can’t tell the difference between Mel Gibson, Jan Michelini and Jim Caviezel. Or, God isn’t pissed but enjoys fucking with people’s heads by pretending he is pissed. Or God doesn’t exist and this is just a lesson on why it’s a bad idea to stand around with an umbrella on a hilltop in the rain.

Take your pick. I find them all equally amusing myself.

167 thoughts on “Man on set of Gibson’s “Passion” struck by lightning, twice.

  1. Last choice for me—the rules of physics win out.

    And the God of the OT and NT isn’t the sky god with the lightning bolts—that was Zeus.  Sheesh.

  2. Not really. People get struck by lightening without injury quite regularly around the world. There’s an old guy in the Guinness Book of Records for having been struck by lightening something like 37 times in his life, mostly without injury.

    The implication of your statement, of course, is that God was protecting them. You’d think that if that were the case the lightening never would’ve hit them in the first place, but only would’ve struck nearby or not at all.

    I always find it amusing when lightening strikes a church and it ends up being unharmed how the congregation will credit God for protecting the church (as opposed to those little lightening rods most of them have), but if lightening strikes a church and does major damage or destroys it you never hear the congregation saying something like “I wonder what we did to piss God off??” Worse, if lightening strikes a church, does major damage and actually kills a person or two you’ll often hear the congregation say something like “It’s only by God’s protection that more people didn’t die.”

    That last one always cracks me up as it implies the folks that did die were unworthy of God’s protection and may have been so bad that God was willing to destroy a church and risk other people’s lives just to take out the couple of bad apples in their midst. You’d think he’d wait till after church and just nail them in the parking lot or something…

  3. For an attempt to take the intellectual or logical high ground, that was amazingly small minded.

    Only a fool believes that God does not exist.

  4. Who said I was trying to take the either the intellectual or logical high ground? I was just telling it like I see it.

    As for being a fool, well, at least I’m in good company.

    Thanks for showing up and contributing nothing to the discussion. Your simplistic and snotty comments are always appreciated.

  5. I wasn’t talking to you les. Snotty comments?

    My comments are simplistic? “As for being a fool, well, at least I’m in good company.”

    You find those antics of the church going amusing? You understand nothing. They’re just people. Many of them as small minded as you are. If they are able to behave in any other fashion then that would be a miracle. But then I fault you for what I’m also guilty of. Judging the people in the pews for their own hypocrisy! HA! And yet also I know that according to their bible, God chooses the very weakest and most screwed up from among humanity to believe in him, thus being “saved”. This certainly seems to be the case since the people that fill the church are some of the most screwed up that I know. According to them, God does this to put the strong and the intelligent to shame. If you follow me… that the proud and smart cant save themselves with their strengths. Understand that their deal is that God saves you, not that you do anything to become saved except believe.

    When you look at them in this context, it makes much more sense.

    -T

  6. You find those antics of the church going amusing?

    Yes, actually, I do. At least I do when I don’t find them to be appalling.

    Yeah, I’ve heard a similar explanation from believers as well. The whole “the meek shall inherit the Earth” deal. I don’t claim to completely understand anything, but I have a fairly good grasp of human nature.

    Oh, and if you weren’t talking to me then perhaps you would do well to identify whom you’re addressing when you reply.

  7. There is another option that is missing… God is reminding them to be careful when filming this movie because it is about God’s love for people and how they can live forever. Nothing is more important than living or dying.

  8. I usually don’t respond to message boards, but I saw a need to do so in this case. 

    Thought #1:  It is possible to get hit by lightning and live, even multiple times, BUT, how many times have you heard of such strange circumstances on a movie set?  I don’t recall it happening before, not even w/ the other Christian movies that were filmed in that part of the country.

    Thought #2:  All the message boards I am stumbling on keep giving God the credit for the lightning.  What about Satan?  Are we forgetting about him?  He is powerful too, very powerful…just look at our world and you can see how powerful he is.  Why couldn’t it have been him that was trying to sabotage the movie and scare them from continuing forward? 

    In summary, my guess is that it didn’t happen in the other Christian movies that were filmed in some of the same areas, probably during the same weather because Satan did not see those movies as threats to his reign….99% of them go straight to video.  But this movie is going to be powerful and is getting a ton of publicity and Mel has the Devil shaking in his boots!!

  9. Some of these responses are way more amusing than I expected. The simple truth is these folks were standing on high spots holding metal objects that made them into the equivalent of lightening rods. It doesn’t take an act of God or Satan to explain this and the only reason it was newsworthy is because of the movie they were working on.

  10. Hey Tom….
      Just to let you know, there are some people out there that do not believe in God, for the sole reason that he was never there for them, and therefore they should not believe in him.  I personally am not like this, but I a lot of my friends are.  In fact, I am atheist, because I would rather believe in myself, rather than in some entity that I do not know that exists.  Just wondering though… do you think that people should be forced to go to church, even if they chose not to?
    Les – I like your site, but do not respond very often.  I will try to more.  I agree with your feelings that the only reason of why this act, action, call it what you will, happened was because they were stupid enough to stand up on a hill with metal in their hands during a lightning storm.  Here is another thought for those of you who believe in God… maybe He cared so much for them that he was attempting to warn them to not do such a stupid thing any more.  Obviously it didn’t work – at least not yet.  You never can tell how long it will take some people.
    Ian

  11. Hey Les and Ian… God says we don’t know him because we were born evil… and perfect love cannot accept stupidevilbastards like us. I hate reality buy I cannot deny what God says.I do not know him but he says that the wisdom of man( you and I) is foolishness to him. He says most of us will spend eternity in pain and sorrow because we did not seek him out and do what he says which is to love ( his unconditional kind not our convenient kind). So believe in yourselves … you can accomplish great things,impress many people including yourselves,make lots of money and do anything you want until you die and become eternally seperated from God who is the unfailing love that each of us desires.I believe you won’t seek him or find him for your heart is even harder that my own.Anyway I wish we could all be happy forever but were stupidevilbastards so we won’t.

    Oh , and God did make the lightning hit those guys but whether it means anything or not only he knows.

  12. Chris, god spoke to you? Did he mention the election of 2004? You need to tell him/her/it to come over here with a whole lot of explanations for the people before the people put you in one of those nifty little white jackets that tie in the back.

  13. Chris, did God say all of that or was it some really old book someone claims God wrote? Not that I should doubt you have some secret hotline to God as it seems to be fairly common these days between the Pope and Pat Robertson, among others.

    And how the hell do you have any idea of what I really want or how hard my heart is? Honestly I’d love to suddenly have good reason to believe in the idea of god(s) out there looking over us and helping with the tough aspects of life, but until I have some reason to believe in such an idea it’s not going to happen. This makes my heart hard?

    I always find it amazing how the same tired arguments are parroted repeatedly by those who would claim to want to save my soul.

  14. Covie and Les, I said I did not know him. His spirit is here and our concience bears witness for us or against us if we allow him in. God did not speak to me. He does reveal things to those who are not wise in their own eyes and I am not. I am the worst of sinners. The reason I know what you want and how hard your heart is Les is because that is what he said in the Bible…I’m not trying to save your soul and I am not saved But I wish that we all were.I have no hotline to God. God is Love and Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude , it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. God says he is meek and humble. I look at people and myself and see that we are not like this. I just wish we were. God is spirit and spirit is eternal. we are just flesh waiting to die and rot unless we Love God and each other this way. I won’t write again… I really do wish you well Les and Covie.

  15. Well considering you’re not saying anything we’ve not heard before (read: standard ‘god-is-love’ claptrap) then that’s probably for the best. Thanks for wishing us well and have fun doing whatever it is you do when you’re not posting tired retreads of religious feel-good cliches on various websites.

  16. I love the way that religious nuts tout humility as the ultimate virtue.

    Humility, when overdone, is as bad as arrogance.  Know yourself.  That means your strengths as well as your weaknesses.  Or you can sit around gazing at your navel and agonizing over your inability to “know” anything.

    It is fun to roll in your own filth while weeping about your utter uselessness to yourself and others, but at some point it’s time to get up and clean the house.

    or not.

  17. Plus the truly humble would not point out their own humility since in doing so they are looking for the reward of recognition. Actual humility is all in how you live and only slightly rarer than seeing a Leprechaun building a perpetual motion machine on the back of a three legged Unicorn.

  18. I try to maintain at least some humility about myself, but I’ll be the first to note that there are aspects of myself I do take pride in.

  19. I don’t know if God hits people with lightning or not, and neither do any of you.  The argument over whether nature or God was responsible for this event is ridiculous, with either side making the sweeping assumption that the two are not one in the same.  Only an irrational person would say that science disproves the existence of God, or vice versa. 

    Science may disprove certain aspects of the God described in the Bible, but there is simply no way to KNOW that the universe was not created. Conversely, there is no way to describe the nature of such a being in terms of human attributes, including but not limited to meekness, patience, and generosity; these things are not necessarily incorruptible.

    Anyway, maybe this was a sign and maybe it wasn’t.  Take it as whatever you want it to mean; there is no way to win an argument like this.  Just for the record, IF it was a sign, maybe it meant that people should stop using faith and adoration for God to justify nonsensical dogma and irrational hate. 

    That is, hate for the descendents of the guys who allegedly killed a free-thinker they perceived as a threat to their faith-based laws.  Sort of ironic.

  20. now…for that comment about how people don’t believe in God just for the mere fact that “he was never there for them” is totally out there. now speaking from a Christian standpoint, God loves everyone, and regardless a person gives credit for good or bad things, God was there either giving the situation and/or helping the situation.  now i believe that the devil was in an uproar while this movie was created and had to resort to “trying” to prevent it from finishing, now the power of God (whether you agree with it or not) stopped him from killing or even injuring these guys, and yeah, it might just have happened to be a coincidence, but how often does anyone get struck by lightning twice in a certain time period, and not get hurt what so ever?
    by the way, i am amused by your site, it’s funny how ignorant people spend their time, trying to make fun of things in their little dark rooms.  now i know you atheist punks are going to rip up my comments and try to be funny again, i just hope that maybe this post has lit a light in your “stupid evil” heads, or maybe God might have to strike you in order for you guys to believe, well, anyways..God bless..whether you like it or not

  21. les, just wandering if you will be seeing the movie The Passion of The Christ?  I can see by your posts your opinion of most Christians and church,  but what is your real and honest opinion about Jesus Christ.  I am sure you have heard this before but Jesus either had to be a liar, a madman or he was who he said he was.  The way the truth and the life.  I understand that people have a problem with Christains most of them are fake.  I understand why people have trouble with church most of them are fake too.  But why have trouble with Jesus?  All he wants is a realatinship with you.  Its the creator calling the created.  If you get a chance go see the movie.  What you see on the screen is a portion of what Jesus did for you.  If you go to the theater you will no doubt sit with hypocrites, and fakes that like to call themselves Christians, but the cool thing is that Jesus loves them too.  Please see the movie and then without posting something for everyone to see email me personally and tell me what went on in your heart as you sat through the movie, and if you can go see the movie by yourself.  Thanks if you do and thanks for any comment you post back

  22. Jesus either had to be a liar, a madman or he was who he said he was.

    Ah, the “trilemma”. C.S. Lewis fan?

    That argument is flawed. Of course it’s quite compelling if you don’t think about it too much…leaving you to believe your only choice is to believe he was God.

    But exactly what Jesus claimed is not known, and cannot be proven.

    I don’t personally believe he ever claimed such thing. And I doubt believe the Bible is a literal account of anything or something to be relied on for historical accuracy.

    So there is another option…we really don’t know WHAT Jesus claimed to be. So the argument holds no water.

  23. The argument is flawed for another reason: It assumes Jesus actually existed when there is little evidence outside of the Bible of any such person ever walking the Earth.

    It’s also wrong to assume these three possibilities are the only ones. It could also be that Jesus is misquoted in the Bible and never claimed to be Lord. Outside of statement in John 10:30 that could be misconstrued, Jesus never says anything in the New Testament before his death about being God. The first claim in that regard is made after he dies. It’s also possible that early Christians fabricated the stories about Jesus in full or in part.

    You asked me what my honest opinion of him is? My honest opinion is that he’s fictional in the same way that Zeus, Odin and many other gods are fictional. A myth. A story parents make up to keep other parents from being naughty ‘cause they can’t think of a better reason. So, in all honesty the question of whether Jesus was Lord, Lunatic or Liar (as this common argument is usually known) isn’t an issue for me as he never existed to be any of those three things.

    Will I see the movie? Probably, but it’s unlikely I’ll spend the money to see it in the theater. I’ll wait for it to hit the local Blockbuster or cable TV and then I’ll check it out. Not enough explosions in it for me to spend full-price at the theater to see it.

  24. les, i will pay for a ticket if you will see it in the theater??? ….so if the bible is incorrect, and made up of fallacies, imaginations etc. then you les and brandi have a good point.  i am sure you have your own reasons why to discredit the bible,,i am surprised les that you feel that Jesus never existed.  that is like an anti-semite saying the holocost never existed.  i feel that is too easy of a way to run from the truth. not to have to deal with it because its not really there.  thanks for responding anyway.

  25. Brandi,,,The arguement is not flawed based on scripture,  but since you do not believe in the accuracy of the bible then the specific scripture is not important to you.  If you do believe in the fact that this man Jesus did indeed exist, then why else would they kill him? why would they give him 39 lashes and crucify him?  why else would the majority of posts on this site be against Christ, church and christians.  If he does not exist then why the turmoil controversy.  If he is not real, why wont he just go away.  Jesus did claim to be God, that is why He died.  do you think they wanted him killed because he did nice things.  that would be like us crucifying mother teresa.  what did Jesus do wrong to deserve this horrible death?  why did he die a death he did not have too.  Jesus was crucified because he claimed to be the Messiah, The Christ The Son of the living God.  I do understand your reasoning for not accepting that, or believing its not real.  Not buddah, mohommed, clinton or bush has claimed to be THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.  Jesus did not say he was a way, but the Way.  I just ask that you dont let the actions of Christians and church organizations take your focus off of Jesus and who He did claim to be.

  26. ob…why the angst toward me?  if you have a bible please go to john 14:6…but Jesus did say the he and those who follow him are the light of the world. so you are not totally wrong…thanks for the feedback.

  27. Randall, you can’t go around making arguments based on the assumption that everyone believes the Bible to be infalliable. You may believe that, but it’s a far cry from a solid supporting argument.

    Why did they crucify him? Well, gee. They crucified ALOT of people, for various reasons. Just as brutally as they they did Jesus.

    Saying you are “the way” is a far cry from verbalizing that you are the manifestation of God himself.

  28. randall, what’s up with the email asking me if I’m going to see the movie The Passion of the Christ. Then another blank email… Are we a little kooky? I don’t know you… and hadn’t even posted to this thread till now.

    Did anyone else get email from this preoccupied individual?

  29. brock i apologize for my lack of skills concerning the use of email and the web.  i am sorry if i offended you by asking you that, and for the blank email. it was not meant to intice you. i was simply asking a question trying to avoid the public flogging. please forgive me.

  30. brandi,  HI.  first of all let me say that i do not assume everyone believes the bible.  To be honest with you, most so called Christians do not even believe the bible.  So knowing that, it does not shock me that you or anyone else that might post on this site would not believe it either.  knowing you don’t accept the bible as truth does not make me think ill of you at all.  but all i am saying is that if the bible is in fact true. then it does point to the fact that Jesus is the only way to eternal life, that He is the Messiah/Christ who came to save His people from sin and that He claims to be the Son of God.  I will not list the verses to back that up, unless you wanted me to….now i am not saying you or anyone else HAS to believe that.  I am not saying that if you dont believe that you are not American, shouldnt have a job, or be allowed to reproduce.  I am only communicating with you that in fact the bible does state the facts I listed above about Jesus.  If the bible is a lie then it does not matter.  If the bible is true then it does matter that is all I am saying.

  31. les, i will pay for a ticket if you will see it in the theater???

    I’d have no objections to seeing it in the theater if someone else is footing the bill, though I fail to see what difference there is in viewing it there as opposed to viewing it on my TV.

    …so if the bible is incorrect, and made up of fallacies, imaginations etc. then you les and brandi have a good point. i am sure you have your own reasons why to discredit the bible,,

    I find it hard to believe that anyone who has seriously studied the Bible would try to claim it’s the literal word of God and free of error. Genesis offers two different accounts of creation. There are at least four different accounts of what happens at the tomb after Jesus’ resurrection.

    The fact that the Bible has problems such as these, however, isn’t necessarily reason enough alone to discredit it. My personal reasons have to do with the overall picture of God it paints when you consider the whole thing. While the God of the New Testament has certainly improved over his Old Testament version, he’s still hardly worthy of worship based on what the Bible tells us. If I were to believe that God does exist, Christianity would be the least likely description of him for me to consider being anything close to the truth.

    i am surprised les that you feel that Jesus never existed. that is like an anti-semite saying the holocost never existed.

    You need to stop smoking that crack pipe. Saying that Jesus never existed is nothing like trying to deny the Holocaust. One can be verified by multiple historical accounts and still-living witnesses. The other only has a 2000 year old book of dubious claims and any potential first-hand witnesses are long since dead. Apples and oranges.

    i feel that is too easy of a way to run from the truth. not to have to deal with it because its not really there. thanks for responding anyway.

    You feel I’m running from the truth, I feel I’ve embraced it. I’m willing to engage in arguments about the validity of C.S. Lewis’ “trilemma” based on the momentary assumption that Jesus did exist, but you asked me for my opinion on the matter and my opinion is that he’s just another myth.

    Brandi,,,The arguement is not flawed based on scripture, but since you do not believe in the accuracy of the bible then the specific scripture is not important to you. If you do believe in the fact that this man Jesus did indeed exist, then why else would they kill him? why would they give him 39 lashes and crucify him?

    This argument makes no sense. You’re basically saying the argument is valid if the Bible is true, but the validity of the Bible itself is questionable which makes the argument questionable. You then ask why else Jesus, had he existed, been killed as though there haven’t been countless reasons throughout history that one group has sought to murder another group because they either believed that the other group was or wasn’t something supernatural.

    why else would the majority of posts on this site be against Christ, church and christians. If he does not exist then why the turmoil controversy. If he is not real, why wont he just go away.

    Again, a poor argument. You’re basically stating that because people believe Jesus actually did exist and refuse to give up that belief that this proves he did exist. There are people who believe to this day that unicorns, fairies and such do actually exist, but that doesn’t make them real. Persistence of belief only indicates that the idea is attractive to a lot of people, not that it has any basis in reality. The persistence of this silly belief is what causes the turmoil and the arguments, but it says nothing about whether or not Jesus actually existed.

    Jesus did claim to be God, that is why He died.

    Like I said before other than John 10:30 Jesus didn’t say a whole lot about being God while he was alive. I have a book that argues that Jesus did exist and was a prophet, but never claimed to be the son of God and that it was Paul who created the mythology around Jesus that formed the early Christian church. It makes a compelling argument.

    do you think they wanted him killed because he did nice things. that would be like us crucifying mother teresa.

    There are some who feel Mother Teresa deserved a good crucifying.

    what did Jesus do wrong to deserve this horrible death? why did he die a death he did not have too. Jesus was crucified because he claimed to be the Messiah, The Christ The Son of the living God. I do understand your reasoning for not accepting that, or believing its not real. Not buddah, mohommed, clinton or bush has claimed to be THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. Jesus did not say he was a way, but the Way. I just ask that you dont let the actions of Christians and church organizations take your focus off of Jesus and who He did claim to be.

    Your problem seems to be narrow vision. You can’t conceive how someone could not believe Jesus existed or that he wasn’t what he claimed to be whereas most of us here have no problem understanding how you could believe that to be true. Simply because you can not understand how someone can hold a contrary opinion doesn’t make that opinion invalid. All of your statements are dependent on God and Jesus actually existing and the Bible being a factual account of events and all of those things have yet to be established as fact. Some of them aren’t capable of being established as fact.

    You seem to be willing to believe regardless of whether there is anything substantial to support that belief. Some of us, however, require good reason to put faith into something.

    but all i am saying is that if the bible is in fact true.

    IF it’s true. That’s a mighty big IF you’ve got there. Sure, IF it’s true then you may have a valid point, but until you have proven it’s true (or at least provided good reason to accept it’s true) then that point is moot at best.

    I am only communicating with you that in fact the bible does state the facts I listed above about Jesus. If the bible is a lie then it does not matter. If the bible is true then it does matter that is all I am saying.

    This is stating the obvious and I don’t think anyone here would dispute it. As long as the Bible is debatable, however, then this doesn’t mean a damned thing.

  32. Well yes of course. If we could somehow dispense with all that pesky logic and knowledge of human nature and deem the Bible to be an accurate historical document, or even the infalliable word of God…then your argument for Jesus is more than just a little compelling.

    But the likelyhood that the Bible is any of those things…historically accurate, inerrant, unadulterated…is pretty slim and therefor there is no rational basis for believing any of it based on what is written in it alone.

  33. Les,  I can tell by your posts that you rank higher on the education leve than i do.  i apologize that my arguements are not very compelling to you, nor am i indulging you in facts.  have you ever read the book “the case for christ”  it is a very detailed book by a guy named lee strobel.  if you have not read it, i would like to send you a copy along with the funds necessary for you to see the passion of the Christ movie at the theater….i also want you to know that i am in not on a mission to get you or anyone to believe or think like me, thats impossible…..i can also see your angst with chritianity as a religion.  that is because it was never meant to be a religion.  there are many reason to see error within church and those who claim to be Christ’s ambassadors.  i actually dont mind your opinion about church and christians. it is deserved.  there is much to be laughed at that goes on within the christian ranks, i know because i am on the inside.  actually used to be on the inside with some leaders that have even been posted about on your site.  much about church and what the world sees as christianity is fake and too political.  but the truth about Jesus Christ is not fake.  There is good evidence out there that might help you see him in a little different light, maybe not. but there are people that can certainly communicate those facts better than i, and i apologize for that.  i will practice to get better.  please let me know if i can send you the book…also if i led you to believe that i have doubts about the bible being true, i am sorry.  i am not hoping that what i believe is true.  my convictions are true, not just to emotion or passed down hokus pokus from my grammy.  but my beliefs are based on good facts, science, but most of the based on the person of Jesus Christ himself.  thanks for your time and critique

  34. Jesus is the Son of God – True or False?
    http://www.thelife.com

    Have you ever heard from family, friends, or professors that Jesus never claimed to be God?  They say He was just a good moral teacher.  Some say His followers created a myth that Jesus claimed He was the Son of God.  What is true and what is false?

    In the movie there is a scene where Jesus is on trial and the chief priest asks Jesus to answer – under oath – if He is the Son of God.  You can read this scene in the Bible, “the original screenplay”:  “The high priest said to Him, ‘I charge you under oath by the living God:  Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.’  ‘Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied.”  (Matthew 26:63-64).

    It is true that Jesus claimed divinity.  This is just one example of many in the Bible.  This was the reason they put Him on trial and put Him to death.  They didn’t do it because He was going around saying, “Be nice to each other.”  That doesn’t get you a death sentence. 

    But, just because Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, doesn’t necessarily make it true.  If someone you knew claimed to be the Son of God, would you think it was true?  No, you would probably think that person had a serious mental problem.  But when Jesus claims it, hardly anyone laughs.  Why is Jesus believable?  There are many reasons.  Here are three: 

    His Life – People believed Jesus’ claim to be God because He was so absolutely trustworthy.  He lived a perfect life – He was sinless.  And He had more insight into life and people than anyone.  It would be inconsistent that He wouldn’t know His own identity. 

    His Prophesies – Hundreds of years before Jesus came to earth, many predictions were given about the identity of the Messiah.  Jesus matched every prediction.  It was like one-of-a-kind divine DNA.  (Read Isaiah 53:3-12 for just one example.)

    His Miracles – Jesus referred to His miracles as signs.  These signs pointed to Jesus’ divinity.  Of the hundreds of miracles, one was especially important – He rose from the dead, never to die again.

  35. was anyone else holding up metal objects in the midst of these storms? so many details to color this picture…

  36. I was wondering what yall believe happens after you die. We were created some way. There has to be a Creator. There is just too much stuff that has to happen by slim chance. That is actually a bit of an understatment because the odds for just for one atom to be created is outrageous, yet we are created with such complexity. So I know that there has to be something outthere that created us and we need to look hard for what that is because i dont want to miss out on Heaven because i was too caught up in thinking about myself.

  37. les, our universe was created by the big bang, right?  Where did the gases that enabled the big bang come from?  Did these gases have a begining?  If so, how?  If not the big bang, what gave us our existance?  I’m a Christian but I’d never ask a religous person this question.  I know that their answers would be riddled with bias and it would just be a waste of time.  You seem like you’ve actually spent time pondering these issues…

  38. Randall, I covered most of your reply here in my response to the email you sent me so I’ll not bother to repeat it here.

    Marlaxis, yes indeed they were. The section of the news story I quoted even states the involvement of umbrellas.

    Curt, you raise a number of points (all of which we’ve covered elsewhere, but I’m getting used to repeating myself) so I’ll break your reply down.

    I was wondering what yall believe happens after you die.

    Physically? My body decomposes and breaks down via well documented and completely natural processes in what could be considered the ultimate recycling system. Assuming I’m buried, that is. If my plans to be cremated are realized then I’ll be tossed into an oven and reduced to ash and bone. The bone will be ground up and added to the ash and then my remains become an SEP*.

    I’m assuming, however, you mean what happens to me as a self-aware consciousness. Nothing happens to me. I simply cease to exist. I don’t have a problem with that.

    We were created some way.

    Yes, through a completely natural process that is also well documented these days. We’ve got whole movies showing the process from conception through birth. Nothing supernatural about it.

    There has to be a Creator. There is just too much stuff that has to happen by slim chance. That is actually a bit of an understatment because the odds for just for one atom to be created is outrageous, yet we are created with such complexity.

    Your assertions here don’t prove that there has to be a God, it only proves your poor grasp of odds-making and determining probability. You say it all has to happen by such a slim chance, how slim is that chance exactly? You say the odds for just one atom to be created is outrageous, just how outrageous is it exactly? Do you have any clue? Or are you just making statements that sound good and support your assertions without really having a clue what the numbers are?

    Not that it matters if you actually have a clue what the numbers are as basing the argument on probability is flawed in several ways not the least of which is trying to argue how probable something is after it’s already happened. Probability is only really useful for trying to gage how likely a future event might be and the accuracy of that prediction is dependent on how well you manage to minimize the anthropic principle coming into play. The greater the complexity involved in producing the event the more likely we are to fuck up our calculation of the probability.

    You touch upon one aspect of this argument known as the fine tuning argument which makes the claim that the Universe seems to be “fine tuned” to support the existence of life as only minor variations in a handful of conditions would make the existence of life impossible, therefore God must exist as someone has to be responsible for doing the fine tuning. One of the better arguments I’ve seen against the whole fine tuning and probability argument is this explanation by Nathan Urban in the talk.origins archives.

    So I know that there has to be something outthere that created us and we need to look hard for what that is because i dont want to miss out on Heaven because i was too caught up in thinking about myself.

    Seems to me that this knowledge you claim to have is derived from some seriously faulty reasoning. Actually, I suspect there was little reasoning on your part. You just heard the probability argument from someone and it sounded good to you if for no other reason than you don’t really understand how probabilities are calculated in the first place.

    As a simple comparison I like to point to the various State Lotteries that are common across the country. Michigan is one of the participating states you can play the Mega Millions lottery in. The average chance of you, personally, winning a Mega Millions jackpot with a one dollar bet are 1 in 135,145,920 which is considered beyond the realm of possibility according to probability theory. Yet eventually someone will win that jackpot, how is that possible?

    Because the probability of a winning ticket goes up with each ticket sold. The Mega Millions game is playable in the states of Georgia, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Texas, Virginia, or Washington so you have to add all the potential players in all of those states together when calculating the probability. Then there’s the fact that it’s possible for any single person to buy multiple chances for a single drawing so you have to consider what the average number of bets placed might be. Then there’s the fact that as the jackpot grows the number of people playing increases as well as the number of people buying more than one chance for a single drawing. That also factors into a given probability. When you add all of that up you find that the chances of SOMEONE winning the lottery aren’t all that bad and the chances of it happening increase as the jackpot grows. You personally may still have a good probability of never winning the lottery, but that doesn’t make wining the lottery impossible. In fact, some people have won the lottery multiple times.

    Also while you may be able to roughly predict which drawing is most likely to produce a winning ticket (or multiple winners for that matter), there’s nothing in any of these calculations that will give you a clue as to WHICH ticket is most probable to win. Trying to argue that creation is too impossible to happen by chance yet we’re here so there must be a God is like trying to claim that it was too impossible for John Smith to win the lottery so God must have made it happen. There’s nothing logically consistent about either conclusion, just a poor understanding of probability.

    Moving on to bowdwn5…

    les, our universe was created by the big bang, right?

    That’s one of the popular theories, yes. I’m not entirely convinced it’s the most correct one.

    Where did the gases that enabled the big bang come from?

    Who said gases were responsible for the Big Bang?  Kinda difficult if they didn’t exist prior to the Big Bang itself.

    Did these gases have a begining? If so, how?

    Any gases that developed did so post-Big Bang, not prior so the beginning for the gases would be the Big Bang itself.

    If not the big bang, what gave us our existance?

    Running down the different theories would be quite time consuming. I suggest you pick up a couple of   books on the topic. Stephen Hawking has a couple of good ones that discuss possible alternatives to the traditional Big Bang theory.

    I

  39. *Sigh*

    Les,,you are the compelling reason that exists to know that there is a God. Your very own uniqueness, way of reasoning, power to choose, is a very compelling reason not only to believe in A God, but to believe in a great and loving God.

    No, I’m only conclusive proof of my own existence. My existence may be due to the actions of a God or it may not, but I am only proof of my own existence and, logically, my parents’.

    The rest of your comment is par for the course from you lately and I won’t bother pointing out yet again why it’s not much of an argument.

  40. fuckin’ wah.  i can’t believe people sit in front of computers and try to prove points to each other that, in all honesty, no one gives a rats ass about.
    worse yet, i read it all.
    for the believers:  God save me
    all opposed:  shoot me before i find the link to this site again.

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