Latest snake-oil scam: Philip Stein Teslar watch.

In addition to magnetic bracelets and shoe inserts to aid in healing and electrocution belts for weight loss, consumers looking to waste money on products with dubious medical claims can now blow their earnings on a watch that claims to protect your body from “electronic pollution” in the form of magnetic fields.

Wired News: A Watch Powered by Snake Oil

The Philip Stein Teslar watch contains a chip that works with the battery and coil to create a frequency that neutralizes the electromagnetic fields emanating from devices like cell phones, computers and radios, according to the company.

Research links electromagnetic fields with several health problems like headache, fatigue and memory loss, the company said. Those who wear the quartz watch allegedly sleep better, experience less stress and have improved concentration and more energy, it claims.

“It shields the body from these electromagnetic fields, and then the body can be more effective in taking care of itself and its immune system with those unwanted fields thrown off,” explained Ilonka Harezi, head of research for Teslar Inside, which manufactures the watch. “With us sticking cell phones to our heads, we need that protection,” Harezi said.

But others say the company’s claims are a bunch of bunk.

“There is not a chance in the world that (these types of devices) will do anything but lighten your wallet,” said John Moulder, a professor of radiation oncology at the Medical College of Wisconsin, who said he’s seen a slew of products that claim to do the same thing, including radio-frequency-proof lingerie.

Despite there being absolutely no scientific evidence that magnetic fields have any discernible effect on the body, and that’s something that has been studied extensively, the watches are being sold at such upscale stores as Bloomingdale’s New York and Royal Jewelers in Massachusetts for prices starting at $600 and going up to $2000 for one covered in diamonds. Needless to say, the watches are a hit among various celebrities and athletes and the clueless in general.

That’s it. I’m tired of being the only one who’s not making tons of money off of peoples’ stupidity and gullibility. I’m going to develop my own highly over-priced craptastic product with dubious medical claims that you don’t really need and start selling it to clueless idiots so I can be rich too. Perhaps it’s time I follow through on developing a patented Anti-Alien Anal Probe Ass Shield for people suffering from occasional alien anal probe syndrome. There certainly seems be enough of those people around judging from all the news items I read about it.

Link via Boing Boing.

541 thoughts on “Latest snake-oil scam: Philip Stein Teslar watch.

  1. Oh, sure there is (evidence that EMF radiation is harmful). You see, radiation killed a bunch of people in Hiroshima (we can just discard the letters EMF because we don’t know what they mean).  And our cell phones and microwave ovens and such all emit… radiation!  For that matter, so does a light bulb! 

    Well, the sun emits lots of radiation too but sunlight is life-giving.  It gave life to the skin cancer that killed my mother’s 4th husband. 

    No, wait, this is getting confused.  ARTIFICIAL radiation is BAD, because it’s like, y’know, artificial and stuff and…  no, wait, that isn’t it…

    Anyway, all-natural stuff is good for you, like eggs from free-range chickens, or radon in caves. 

    Hmm.  Will have to work on this one for a while.

  2. Light is a wave of Electro Magnetic Frequency, it has components of both an electric field and a magnetic field which are perpendicular and coupled with the same wavelength. Frequency can take any positive number, and all light can be called electromagnetic radiation. The frequencies that cause cancer, UV, xray, gamma ray, are all higher frequency than the range our eyes can see, they have energy of the order of what’s needed to cause electronic transitions in a molecule, which in doing so breaks chemical bonds giving you things like free radicals that can attack DNA, giving cancer, this is the kind of light emitted from nuclear decay. Light of slightly lower frequency than the visible range, IR, is the common radiated heat we feel from hot objects, that is of the energy to cause molecules to vibrate, but not enough to break bonds and hence has no way of causing cancer. Radio waves, which communicate between mobile phones and are emitted from power lines are lower energy still and so also cannot break chemical bonds and so cannot cause cancer.

    As a point of curiosity it happens that radio frequency has energy in the order of what’s needed to change the direction of spin of a nucleus aligned to a magnetic field, not that that would change anything, but that’s useful in mri and nmr.

    Destructive interference does indeed occur if waves interact out of phase, that way light is it’s own anti, but what I don’t fully understand is that if both waves had positive energy where did the energy go upon elimination? It is observed though. Anyway you need a way to make sure the light is actually out of phase in order to destructively interfere and not actually constructively, and if it comes in at you from multiple angles I couldn’t imagine a way of guaranteeing that. In addition the destructive interference would only occur near the watch itself

    http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/electromagnetic/index.html

    Oh and his has nothing to do with the subject matter but if you want to learn an interesting property of light look up Circular dichroism, not all light need be plane polarised, it can rotate whilst keeping the two fields perpendicular. I don’t know myself if rotation has energy associated with it, if there is a way of twisting plane polarised light into this or if the rotation changes the way it interferes

  3. Why don’t you bother ACTUALLY looking around at even FEDERAL sites and DOCTORAL research papers on the nasty effects of EMF, in the ELF range, and in the Post-Radar (that’s right, your own phone and microwave) ranges?? 

    Everything at and above our typical 2.4Ghz transmissions actually disrupts the EM waveguides (time-space, if you don’t get it) that comprise our entire geomagnetic field.  That field even gives the binary sequencing to our biology.  Can you fathom that?  HUH!  The geo-dynamo core, the moon, the fact that its all crystal and water and iron… and so are we…  HMMMMMMMMMMM…
    Migration patterns, menstrual cycles, precipitation, lightning, so on and so on and so on…

    The information is there if you truly CARE to find it, or have the RESPECT to concern all qualifying articles of justice to the table.  People like you kill Avatars through your ignorant anxiety.  Negativity without reason is like a witty response without intelligence.  Sarcasm.  Stupid sarcasm.

  4. Wow, that’s an amazing load of bullshit you’ve managed to pump out there. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at that one. Let’s see how well we can rip it apart.

    Why don’t you bother ACTUALLY looking around at even FEDERAL sites and DOCTORAL research papers on the nasty effects of EMF, in the ELF range, and in the Post-Radar (that’s right, your own phone and microwave) ranges??

    You seem to know where these research papers are located so why don’t you provide any links to them to back up your claim? If we’re wrong then cite your sources.

    As for the “nasty effects” of EMF, well, no one’s disputing that certain EMF can be quite nasty. One particular example would be the common sunburn, but the fact that some EMF can have nasty effects in no way supports the claims of the Teslar Watch makers.

    Everything at and above our typical 2.4Ghz transmissions actually disrupts the EM waveguides (time-space, if you don’t get it) that comprise our entire geomagnetic field.

    That set off my bullshit detector amazingly fast. waveguides have nothing to do with time-space and everything to do with electronics. They tend to be particularly useful with the microwave and optical frequencies. The coaxial cable that brings Cable TV into your home is a waveguide as is the common fiber optic cable.

    “EM waveguides” do not comprise our entire geomagnetic field so they can’t be disrupted by frequencies of any kind.

    That field even gives the binary sequencing to our biology.  Can you fathom that?  HUH!

    Does it now? I’m sure you can provide a link to back that claim up, right?

    The geo-dynamo core, the moon, the fact that its all crystal and water and iron… and so are we… HMMMMMMMMMMM…

    That bit made me laugh out loud and startled the cat. Keep ‘em coming. This is some funny shit.

    Migration patterns, menstrual cycles, precipitation, lightning, so on and so on and so on…

    And all of that is disrupted by frequencies greater 2.4GHz? Amazing. You’d think there’d be a lot more excitement around here if that were the case.

    The information is there if you truly CARE to find it, or have the RESPECT to concern all qualifying articles of justice to the table.

    Yet I notice that you didn’t bother to actually provide any of that information. Lots of big claims here, but nothing to back it up.

    People like you kill Avatars through your ignorant anxiety.  Negativity without reason is like a witty response without intelligence.  Sarcasm.  Stupid sarcasm.

    I kill Avatars? The above pretty much puts you into the nutcase category. You’ve got good company though.

  5. That field even gives the binary sequencing to our biology.

    Stupid scientists and the genome project.  They should be studying the differnt human auras (auri?) instead.

  6. I appreciate the discussion here.  There is relatively minimal mud slingling in relation to actual content-based discussion.

    I’m a college student and I’m thinking of requesting a Phillip Stein watch as my graduation present.  Indeed, they seem high quality and very stylish.  Their alleged health benefits are obviously up in there air—as this conversation has revealed, there is zero solid evidence to substantiate a claim either way.

    Further, I appreciate Les—he’s like a friend of mine at John Hopkins U who doesn’t believe in anything he can’t measure with a stick.  There is definately a place for your kind on this planet, Les.  Don’t change a bit!

    I decided to find an academic article that might enlighten this conversation since it seems in need of one.  There was a study done in 1994 on the relation between breast cancer and electromagnetic radio that appeared in the _U.S. Department of Health and Human Services; Journal of the National Cancer Institute_ entitled “Breast Cancer Mortality Among Female Electrical Workers in the United States.”  I found the article through LexusNexus.

    The article reveals that there IS a positive correlation between women who worked in condition that exposed them to hightened levels of electromagnetic radioation (e.g. electrical engineers, electrical technician, etc.) and developing breast cancer.  The study cites its own limitations and the limitations of science in general to rule out all other explanations.  And I quote, “Nevertheless, our findings are broadly consistent with that hypothesis and encourage further investigation with improvements in study design and data quality.”

    I am no expert on this stuff, so I encourage you to read the article for yourself if you have access to scholarly databases.  It does propose other possible explanations for the positive correlation documented.

    Still, I doubt that this conversation will—in the near future at least—end in anything but one’s own opinions and biases and prejudices.  Some won’t need emperical evidence to drop $1000, others most certainly will.  People spend there money on all sorts of “unnecessary” things…BMWs, Prada, beach houses that will fall into the ocean in 50 years, etc.  If a Phillip Stein watch really does something for you, and it’s within your financial means, then more power to you.  I like the watches quite a bit and they are not out-priced compared to similar “pieces of jewelry” with similar features (except for this Teslar feature of course).

    Again, thanks for the stimulating discussion and allowing me to procastinate further on my final papers due in just a couple days!

  7. First off, correlation doesn’t prove causation. That said, depending on the type of EMF radiation you’re talking about, you can find some studies that do seem to indicate some potential harm.

    Which is all fine and good except this entry wasn’t discussing the possibility that some EMF may be harmful, it was whether or not the Tesla watch actually provided any protection and it does not.

  8. Quoting Les: “First off, correlation doesn’t prove causation”

    Exactly, generally speaking there could be any number of other factors that have to be looked at on a small scale that contribute to a broad sweeping trend. Phrases about correlations are the kind of things you hear from polititions after their data went to the statistical manipulation department. Whilst statistics may not lie they can be manipulated by changing conditions until you get something that satisfies a pre-decided conclusion, look closely at where these studies came from or who funded them, because in my experience organisations can have studies because they want to hear a certain conclusion.

    Also remember all you technicly need to say “a positive correlation” is one extra person with cancer who happened to be exposed to more emf than normal. Small statistical flukes will by chance happen if data is collected enough times and, with a pre-decided conclusion you just pick the data-set you most like. I’ve done it myself.

    Les: “depending on the type of EMF radiation you’re talking about, you can find some studies that do seem to indicate some potential harm”

    Yup, as I said, only frequencies in the UV and greater can cause the chemical changes necessary for cancer (unless you simply fry it with radiated heat far more intese than we could survive, like when you cook your food, but that would probably kill the cell and the chemical changes won’t be controlled). Radiowaves which we get from power lines and phones simply don’t have the energy to make chemical changes.

    Some studies might not specify the type of emf to deliberately cause fear of all light.

    Steve: “I appreciate the discussion here.  There is relatively minimal mud slingling in relation to actual content-based discussion.”

    What I like too, though this site serves both purposes, and for some people it works best to have both simulaneously, this is why the site appeals to a diverse range of people, which in my view gives more perspectives. I wish you good luck with your studies.

  9. I just wanted to post, that ELF does have a very harmfull efect, and although distant claws makes a nice speech, all kinds of waves (exept the ones in the ocean that cannot drown you) have an effect on all living things! We have grown an evolved on this planet, and the EMW of our body are an equal part of the evolution, of having evolved on a planet with this distinct EMW the schumann resonance! the alpha wave being the same in the human body as the planet primary resonance is prove enough! You think wales like to drown on beaches? just because it dosent affect our comunications in an aparent way, it dosent mean that it is not having an efect on dna at a celular level! Now im not saying that this watch is like having a space cruiser sci-fi shield! but i think it could dispell some of the interference that our beings have in tuning with the earths, our, 7,83 Hz EMW (which is belived by some to have been escalating quite a bit lately and be the reason and cosequence, of man, sun weather an a lot of thing, primarily producing in the year 2012 a shift of the polarity in the earths magnetic field)

    now this article is huge, but it is clear proof that you should be very careful not to live near big power sources or power lines, i mean theres no way to escape this, microwaves, comunications, pierce or bodies by the thousands every second, but that dosent mean im gonna tell my (hipothetical) pregnant girlfriend to put her tummy against the microwave door every time she uses it, to see if i can get a kid with more than 1 penis! or an extension of the coxis, a fifth limb that covers the anus (an evolution stimulated by 100ds of years of rectal abuse by aliens)

    here is an article, its quite extensive, but i found it to be very interesting, and you now what
    it dosent matter if people dont buy that us men coul be getting more prostate cancer because of the mobile in the pants pocket routine, because people are stuborn, and history will repeat itself, and pava and that drug they used to calm dizzines and vomit sensations will be the first of worse mistakes, like the japanese children of hiroshima that were born with scales on their arms feeling lucky next to how other grew!

    http://www.powerlinefacts.com/New%20Yorker%20on%20EMF(Sec%201).PDF

    ps. im sorry punctuation and grammar, spelling mistakes or whatever,im not native english speaker and im at the end of one of my 16 hour days, zzz, zzz

  10. 😀 Alevelo, this is the thread that just keeps on giving!  Very funny stuff, even backed up by the awesome anecdotal authority of The New Yorker. 

    You should ask one of your alien friends why human lifespan averages tend to be longer in industrialized countries than in all-nature environments.  Is it all the yummy radiation?  Mmmmmm, microwaves…

  11. Well unfortunately i havent had the honour of conversing with a species more evolved than the human race.

    And no, ofcourse no, its not the yummy radiation, its because of money, because of the quality of life (although, that has become, so relative) nutrition is very important also, although there are some contradictions like in the USA “culture” where the MC Donalds culture (gotta love the free radicals, am i right decrepit old fool)(pardon da pun) has given birth to what i like to call the manatee contingent, a sub species of the native cattle, huge, deforme and equally docile to the 3 sick cowboys running the show, keeping their business hot by for eg. letting the CIA sell colt rifles and other weapondry to the guerrillas in my country while its goverment sells them to mine, i think being at war is not one of the best economical stimulus for industrialisation, but well, then that sadly is exactly the point of it!

    Although for example we did have until very recently, more computers with internet than spain which has the same population and is were i am living right now (lovely country by the ay, gotta love the girls, specially tha andalusas, from sevila! and the dames in valencia!) Which is good because it means people are conected to the world it was one of the first countries to develo a fibre optics net for the internet, but its bad that there is so much contamination going on, specially because of it being the second most biodiverse and one of the reesource most rich countries in the world!

    To sum up, id like to say that sadly, in this days, average life span, dosent mean squat, the most powerful country in the world, has drowned in the darkest negative numbers.

    One of thousands of reasons and example:

    “There was an interview on CNBC of the renowned funds manager Julian Robertson. He is one of the greatest of the old-timers. 53 years on the Street. He manages the Robertson group of funds. They used to call him, still do call him ‘Never Been Wrong’ Robertson. He has predicted every economic cycle, every debacle, every bull market, and every bear market. Of course, he´s a very old man now. But his reputation on the Street is like nothing you could imagine. When the segment of his interview was through, his comments alone took the Dow Jones down 50 points. Just on his comments alone. That’s how powerful this man’s reputation is.

    “Robertson was actually a teary-eyed, an old man. When Ron Insana asked him about his predictions, he said that he´s worried about the speculative bubble in housing and the fact that more than 1/4 of all consumer spending is now sustained by that bubble, plus the fact that 20 million citizens could lose their homes in a collapse of the speculative bubble in housing, and that the Fed and, indeed, central banks worldwide would act in concert out of desperation to reinflate the global economy in the process, creating an inflationary spiral unheralded in the economic history of the planet.

    “Insana then asked, “Where does it end?” And he said, “Utter global collapse.” Not simply economic collapse; complete disintegration of all infrastructure and of all public structures of governments. Utter, utter collapse. That the end is collapse of simply epic proportion.

    “In 10 years time, he said, whoever is still alive on the planet will be effectively starting again.

    I think that maybe All-nature lifespan, may be, the only life span in a vey, vey ,very short time!  So you no what, what the fuk matters if the fukin tesla chip works or it dosent, i think thes bigger things to worry about, comunication as so complex these days, that even in the middle of the forrest youre getting a bath on waves bouncing of the ionosphere! i think we are going to be really lucky if the situation dosent get bad, and i mean really bad for the whole world in the next 2 years, and i dont mean economicaly i mean the air`s gonna glow our skin eyeball and skin like Truman jacked off the milky way! then, maybe people arent even gonna care what the time is, well maybe people in the south hemisphere.

    indifference, ignorance, negligence, are worse sins than violence.

    The true powerlines, lie not, far away

    (i dont care if this text is taken against my sanity, time will shine on it, but it is sad how being as obvious as the power of the nations lies farthest than ever from the peoples of it (which makes me imagine some top businessmen bankers and politicians getting together and jacking off at the rythm of metallicas “werever i may roam”) some skeptic people laugh at some calling them conspiracytheorists, when in relity i think viiolent revolution in some countries would be the ultra lesser evil to what they could avoid, alas i think the damage has been made! 2 weeks ago Blair announced that he thinks apprpiate and will therefore, spend 9 billion in nukes!!! you gotta love this guys!!!!!

    well, lol at myself for turning the tesla debate blog into this diarrea speech, jejejej

    Merry Chrismas!!!!!!

  12. I would say something but I’ve lost track of the topic, anyway

    Alevolo – I should point out that cancer is due to chemical changes to DNA, since DNA is a chemical. (DNA controlls the rate of cell division, and so uncontrolled division from altered DNA is what causes tumors.) Chemicals are specific as to what frequencies of emf they absorb due to quantisation of energy levels:
    http://www.chemistry.mcmaster.ca/esam/Chapter_3/section_1.html

    As proof of selective absorption at different frequencies look up a spectrum from SDBS:
    http://www.aist.go.jp/RIODB/SDBS/cgi-bin/cre_index.cgi

    Notice though the peaks are not infinitely thin (if they were no light would be of the correct frequency to an infinite number of decimal places so nothing could be absorbed). Broadness can come when more than one transition happens at once, as happens with IR and UV-vis spectra, and in my opinion you have to involve an unquantised energy buffer like translational energy to deal with those decimal places and give some width to even the isolated peak, otherwise having any width would violate quantisation. Translational energy has a boltzmann distribution that explains why broadness has limits if what I suspect is true
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell-Boltzmann_distribution

    For the curious about the ionosphere:
    Why marconi was able to send a radio signal transtlantically without it shooting off into space due to the curvature of the earth:
    http://homepages.picknowl.com.au/wavetel/propagation.htm

  13. You all sound like idiots arguing this!! 

    OH AND BY THE WAY…

    Nicoli Teslar (the scientist) did research in ELF (Extremely Low Frequency, sometimes refered to as Electromagnetic Frequencies) not EMF (Electromagnetic Fields). 

    {{DAMN NEWBIES, never know what the hell they are talking about.}} 

    HOW ABOUT LEARN FIRST>>>>ARGUE LATER.  Maybe then anyone who reads your string of arguements can learn something from it dammit!!!

  14. informer- relax, we are talking about light- a field needs something mobile to redistribute energy when there is a gradient

    If its clear what we mean how important can being perfectly exact be? doesnt make what we’re trying to get across any less valid

  15. 2 Questions for you all…, in an easy to read ( 3 year old )reading responce.

    (A)Is the teslar watch really worth the $ or is there something else similar that will do the same thing for less $.

    (B)What would you say in a list of 1-? does teslar wearing really change in the day to day life of a person.

  16. Hi EG – I believe a $25 casio will do the same thing as the Teslar and make the same change in your day-to-day life.  That is, it will allow you to know what time it is.

  17. Quick off topic Q, but sort of checking so I can understand stuff on SEB.

    People often say “Correlation doesn’t prove causation” which I can understand, because there are all sort of odd correlations out there like star signs and car accidents, names and car accidents, the French philosopher who psited that the branches moving caused the wind etc.  However we are fairly hot on proof and double blind tests here, where you must have correlation to back up the hypothesis/theory. 

    I assume therefore when you have eliminated all other correlations as meaningless, what ever remains (as Holmes might say) is the truth?  e.g. When Drugs A is taken in a properly conducted trial, the correlation betweenm it and cures in both known and blind tests, as opposed to the placebo, will prove it causation.

  18. Depends what you mean by ‘proof’, which in its purest form is a mathematical concept.  Not all questions are amenable to double-blind testing and science sometimes has to rely on cross-sectional studies, longitudinal studies, cross-disciplinary analysis (is the explanation consistent with what we know of physics, chemistry, biology, etc?).  About the best you can do is come to saying “there’s a very high probability that ‘x’ is the case”.

  19. I assume therefore when you have eliminated all other correlations as meaningless, what ever remains (as Holmes might say) is the truth?  e.g. When Drugs A is taken in a properly conducted trial, the correlation betweenm it and cures in both known and blind tests, as opposed to the placebo, will prove it causation.

    How do you know you’ve eliminated all other correlations? Known and unknown?

    What you want for the above example is a direct proof of causation. Like, exactly what does drug A do and why does this result in a viable treatment?

  20. Les,
    You said that the Philip Teslar watch is a bunch of crap. Ok, I am listening. Can you give me any reasoning for your claim? Do you have any scientific evidence on EMF that this watch is a bunch of crap? Do you have any scientific evidence that EMF’s do not cause disease? I have a friend who worked in a computer room with 4 other persons- she was surrounded by computers and harddrives. After working their for 8 mos she got a brain tumor within one year two of her associates died of brain cancer. What do you think that was caused from? I am open to your suggestions.

  21. Sure I can give you reasons, but based on your comment here and in the other thread I seriously doubt you’re listening. In fact I’m inclined to think you’re just here to try and offset the criticisms of this product.

    Just the same I’ll point you to the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS) website which covers the studies done on the possibility that EMF causes disease, particularly cancer. Here’s a relevant snippet from their press release:

    After six years of accelerated, Congressionally mandated research, the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences today announced it has concluded that the evidence for a risk of cancer and other human disease from the electric and magnetic fields (EMF) around power lines is “weak.”

    NIEHS’ review and analysis of the existing data came in a report to Congress, released today. The report applies to the extremely low frequency electric and magnetic fields surrounding both the big power lines that distribute power and the smaller but closer electric lines in homes and appliances.

    While sections of the report say EMF exposure “cannot be recognized as entirely safe,” the report concludes: “The NIEHS believes that the probability that EMF exposure is truly a health hazard is currently small. The weak epidemiological associations and lack of any laboratory support for these associations provide only marginal scientific support that exposure to this agent is causing any degree of harm.”

    As for your friends with brain cancer: First I haven’t any reason to accept your claims as factual. Second, assuming they are true there’s any number of potential other reasons for their condition than EMF exposure, but without knowing more details I can only speculate.

    Considering that I’ve spent a good deal of my career in computer rooms — way longer than a mere 8 months — and even more personal time sitting in front of various computers for hours on end and yet somehow have yet to develop a brain tumor, I find your story somewhat suspect. Whatever the hell happened to your friends, the Teslar watch wouldn’t have done a damned thing for them.

  22. hi there

    after reading your interesting info about the philip stein watch, i went out and bought one.
    you’re probably right about the mumbo jumbo of electromagnectic shielding.
    however, it makes me more relaxed in a stress filled work environment. cut down my smoking by 50% as a result of feeling less stressed. (i know, i’m an idiot for smoking in the first place.)
    my energy level is up too.
    trick of the mind, maybe so. if my physical improvement is not related to the watch, i’m still ahead.  it shows time more accurate than my expensive cartier piece of shit.
    also, expensive is directly related to perceived value.  someone may spend 50 dollars on a bottle of wine and be called stupid, while the other person spends 100 dollars on a gram of cocaine.
    you also know that for every scientist making a claim of something that works, you’ll find and equal or greater amount of them that claim the opposite.  after all, they need to justify their high income levels by pretending to be intelligent.
    a suggestion to you would be to buy a cheap teslar watch and try it….you may be suprised.  also, it’s not because you can’t afford it that it doesn’t work.  as far as the alien anal probe goes, go ahead and have one made. it may actually work on you.
    have a nice day

  23. I see the Teslar folks are still sending their shills over to try and counteract this entry. Not that they need worry too much. There’s plenty of stupid people in this world who’ll continue to buy their craptastic products just so long as it doesn’t cause any major body parts to turn black and fall off.

    More amazing than that, they’ll be like “Bill” here and think it actually does something other than tell the time.

  24. Bill: after all, they need to justify their high income levels

    LOL
    science is one of the lowest paying of the qualified prefessions – PhD pays £12K per year and after that expect about £18K, it’s also very competitive for jobs

  25. How do you know you’ve eliminated all other correlations? Known and unknown?

    Elwed, what you’ve just said there is we can not ‘prove’ anything.  You’ve just managed to to destroy science and put Evolution on an equal footing to ID.

  26. Elwed, what you’ve just said there is we can not ‘prove’ anything. 

    “Proof” is a logical concept that has found its way into colloquial use as synonymous with “evidence”.

    Science deals more with the probable correctness of a given model.  Does it explain the data?  Is it predictive?  At some arbitrary probability, it becomes a distinction without a (practical) difference but it is still worth keeping in mind because a better model may still be found.

  27. LH, don’t be daft.

    What I have said is that you can’t claim that any arbitrary explanation wins by default unless you have tested all other hypotheses.

  28. You can avoid the effort of looking up or finding proof by deriving ideas – so long as you don’t introduce something that hasn’t been proven in that context and don’t say anything revolutionary, in otherways make it so it’s not an arbitary explanation to avoid the formality of scientific method, but if it’s a big thing you derive, some people are going to demand evidential confirmation. I doubt many people seriously think as formally as scientific method asks you to present it- it’s just a way of watertighting to scrutiny

  29. whoops- thats meant to be a giant smiley, and I missed the preview button.

    Elwed- even as I typed I knew the answer would be along the lines of Evolution isn’t proof, but its the best explanation.  Think the point I was probably trying to make is that day to day proof is less than 100%- imagine all those sportsmen havin to worry whether classic dynamics still held true with every throw/jump/etc grin wink

  30. After reading this thread I just had to join this site.  Thanks Les.
    I just watched Rosie and ” The View ” prop up the Teslar watch and give one out to the audience.  A usual ploy by a company who’s sales are low.  Remember when Oprah gave away Pontiacs ?  There ya have it.  I have waited so long for a place to read and vent about the BS of the common world and the suckers who fall into it.  From this watch that will help me sleep by blocking the 5400rpms of my laptops drive on my night stand to the sonic sounds from cell phone.  I found a GREAT way to overcome these sounds and wake up feeling great.  It’s called 2 beers and a Valium.  Medically Tested and Proven to work for over 50 years, I’ll stick with it.

    Now I guess I should browse around and see what else tickles me here.  Perhaps I can find a thread about how I need Jesus to get into heaven as well.

    Agnositically Yours,

    JFA

  31. That would be the Proselytise-Here-So-It-Wont-Be-Off-Topic-Elsewhere Thread (among, many, many others). Welcome to SEB.

  32. I found this site after googling the Teslar watch, also after having seen a ‘sleep expert’ on the View claim it does work. He claimed he spent three hours with the inventor, poring over research before being convinced of the scientific merit. According to him the two electrodes pulse through your skin and create ‘a force field’ to protect you from EMF. I was dubious, to say the least, so I appreciate this site offering up debate. It is amazing the level of hokum that goes on with homeopathic type healing.

    On a related note, in grade school, our science teacher had us create ‘quack medicine’ inventions. Being dirt poor, I created an arthritis cure device by duct-taping an AC-cord to a copper ashtray. The afflicted person places their hands in the ashtray, and the electro-whatzit reacts with the copper, yadda-yadda, etc. and they are then magically healed! I regret not patenting that…

    Psychonauts video game

  33. Hey everyone =]

    A very nice back and forth on this subject. Not much for proving or disproving anything though.=]

    Do Scalar waves really exist? The company, and sites I have visited while researching Nikolai Tesla’s works, state that Scalar waves are undetectable because there hasn’t been equipment made to detect thier waveform.

    They do claim that it creates a field effect, surrounding the whole body in a “Scalar Bubble” for lack of a better term. This bubble/field is claimed to create a zone where harmful and detectable radiations cannot penetrate.

    I would think that a company using actual Tesla technology would employ people smart enough to show the existence of Scalar waves by proving that the radiations in question are absent from the area in question.

    I realise that this method does not prove that Scalar waves exist, nor does it render thier field/bubble visible, but it would prove that these questionably negative energies are being either blocked from the area in question, or neutralized as the manufacturer claims. Similar to using blood spatter voids at crime scenes.

    Thanks for the consideration.

    Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
    Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
    Teach a person to learn and they will learn to teach.

  34. Yo Mortis De Athinc, nice to meet you

    Do Scalar waves really exist? The company, and sites I have visited while researching Nikolai Tesla’s works, state that Scalar waves are undetectable because there hasn’t been equipment made to detect thier waveform

    I hadn’t heard of them until you said, but generally speaking if an emmitable wave or particle exists at a certain energy within physically observed dimensions, it has to be able to affect the energy of another particle/wave sharing at least one common physical dimension. If it does not affect the energy of another object within a common dimension, there is no way it’s energy can be stored in order to be emitted without storing it in a non-observed dimension, which to us would look like a violation of thermodynamics so I’m inclined to think that energy, though interconvertable cannot trancend dimensions – I have a suspicion that most of what we deal with can be ultimately attributed to momentum (via spin) – meaning that charge and nuclear forces might be ultimately generated by spin of a component particle – we know nuclear spin affects nuclear stability and is responsible for magnetism, gravity might be down to the spin of the most fundamental component of mass (maybe smaller than a quark) but it’s difficult in this case because gravity may also be a distortion of relative time along a certain vector more than others – hence making things attract

    However if a wave is not detectable – that is it has no pysical effect, then there is no physical method of proving/disproving it’s existance. Also known particles/waves may have effects in possible dimensions that we don’t observe, indeed to me possible other dimensions may provide capacity for an afterlife if there is a link or if we simultaneously exist in more than one dimension – but the question is how you enter existance in the physical dimensions before birth if you came from outside.

    I should also say that what I call a dimension is more a ‘parameter’ that includes mass as well as the space-time ones, and to me a law of pysics is an observed link between dimesions, in some cases allowing a unit interconversion (ie density links mass to volume, gravity links mass to potential energy and distance, etc)

  35. Mortis writes…

    Do Scalar waves really exist? The company, and sites I have visited while researching Nikolai Tesla’s works, state that Scalar waves are undetectable because there hasn’t been equipment made to detect thier waveform.

    Ask yourself this exceedingly simple question: If the waves are undetectable then how do they supposedly know they exist in the first place? How convenient for the makers of this watch that the principle it works on is undetectable.

    They do claim that it creates a field effect, surrounding the whole body in a “Scalar Bubble” for lack of a better term. This bubble/field is claimed to create a zone where harmful and detectable radiations cannot penetrate.

    I realise that this method does not prove that Scalar waves exist, nor does it render thier field/bubble visible, but it would prove that these questionably negative energies are being either blocked from the area in question, or neutralized as the manufacturer claims. Similar to using blood spatter voids at crime scenes.

    Sounds like a lot of bullshit to me, but it’s your money.

  36. Would the real Scalar Wave scholars please speak up? Please speak up! Please speak up! =]. But with a little less techno-nonsense than distant claws. =]

    Thanks for the consideration.

    Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
    Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
    Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
    teach.

  37. I am unsure when “my money” became part of the topic as i never mentioned planning to purchase or endorse anything.

    Back to staying on topic as aikido teaches.

    I dont recall making any statements that could be considered the fecal matter of bovines.
    I just put forth how suspicious it seemed that people smart enough to work at the company making advanced electronics as they claim, can’t devise a simple test which would show a void in other radiation fields that they claim thier product affects / neutralizes. =]

    Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
    Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
    Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
    teach.

  38. Mortis – Would the real Scalar Wave scholars please speak up?

    I may be wrong but it sounds like you only want to hear what supports the claim, seriously if it did have a physical effect, it would be easily detectable by experiments with eliminating light, otherwise it would have no physical effect on the body. What I say has further meaning, take from it what’s useful, it’s meant so you can look back at any time through the archives.

  39. Hopefully this is clear enough.=]

    I want to hear:

    If anyone thinks the company’s own employees should be intelligent enough to at least show a void where they say thier Scalar field is being produced. Similar to a blood spatter void in phorensics.
    Yes:                No:

    I personally think yes they should, why havent they?
    I am unsure what could possibly have been misread in my previous post to suggest that i was seeking support of the claim. Thats laughable, don’t say it “sounds like you only want to hear what supports the claim.”, say it reads like that since i never spoke those words. Then please paste the part that you possibly misinterpreted as “sounds like you only want to hear what supports the claim.”

    Thanx.=]

    Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
    Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
    Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
    teach.

  40. If anyone thinks the company’s own employees should be intelligent enough to at least show a void where they say thier Scalar field is being produced.

    Regardless of whether they are or aren’t – they have not shown the scalar fields. Void is a bit of a strange way to describe anything; even empty space. Outside the edge of the universe – maybe worthy of being called void.

    The reason why people have misinterpreted what you said are your false analogies to things that are useful, like a blood splatter void. It’s a popular tactic amongst product shills to use false analogies to try and gain some acceptance of their ideas.

    The Teslar Watch technology is less than nothing. It doesn’t exist. There’s no basis for any comparison – not even a blood splatter.

  41. And by the way, X-rays which have a physical effect were undetectable at a previous time in history, and weren’t revealed by any experiments with light. (Gold foil and wax paper were all Mme. Curie used)=]

    Thanks for the consideration.

    Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
    Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
    Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
    teach.

  42. And by the way, X-rays which have a physical effect were undetectable at a previous time in history, and weren’t revealed by any experiments with light.

    Again, this is what I mean. X-rays had no documented existence, and even then, the onus was upon those who proposed it’s existence to show it before it became accepted. The people behind the Teslar watch are subject to the same scrutiny. When they put up and get their work in peer-reviewed literature, I’ll give them a chance.

  43. Whatever the non existence of something can be called thats better than VOID, feel free to substitute it, that should avoid any more semantics.

    Just so we are clear, it doesnt exist or work, no-one has shown either that these energies exist, or that they redirect/shield/neutralize any other energies.

    I was attempting to remain neutral in the stating of my opinion, and thereby elicit purely scientific responses but somehow others only see me as some how supporting it even i stated nor intimated any such thing, if i did paste it so i can see it or get back to the scientific debate and leave the opinions out.

    Just to reaffirm. i also believe the manufacturers claima are BS. Are we clear now?

    back to the discussion, away from the semantics=]

    Thanks for the consideration.

    Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
    Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
    Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
    teach.

  44. OMG, which part of me wondering why they cannot substantiate thier own claims differs from your view? are we not saying the same thing, it hasnt been proven to work?

    YEESH!!!

    back on topic of whether it is physically provable at all, period.

    then onto why they dont prove it.

    Thanks for the consideration.

    Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
    Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
    Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
    teach.

  45. I was attempting to remain neutral in the stating of my opinion, and thereby elicit purely scientific responses. Somehow others only see me as supporting it even though I never stated nor intimated any such thing, if I did, paste it so I can see it, or get back to the scientific debate and leave the opinions out.

    Thanks for the consideration.

    Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
    Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
    Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
    teach.

  46. are we not saying the same thing, it hasnt been proven to work?

    We are, for the most part. You add faulty comparisons to X-rays and blood splatter voids, however. That’s what caught my attention and prompted me to respond. X-rays were ultimately demonstrated to be true, and the utility of blood splatter voids has been demonstrated in practice, while it’s material basis is as clearly demonstrated by just shooting someone and seeing where the blood doesn’t go. smile The Teslar stuff isn’t even worthy of discussion except insofar as the talk of it’s worth has affected people’s product purchases (snake-oil).

    Regarding whether or not it’s provable: If it’s not, it can’t ever be science. Even a hypothesis has to be falsifiable. If it is provable, we’re back to square one, which is waiting for them to do so.

    Why don’t they prove it? Either because they can’t (see above) or they won’t (it’s a scam).

    Sorry if we’re on the wrong level, here, but I don’t see anything up for discussion. It all seems very simple and clear to me.

  47. The Teslar stuff isn’t even worthy of discussion except insofar as the talk of it’s worth has affected people’s product purchases (snake-oil).

    Then why are you discussing it?

    and where did “purchases” come into my discussion, stay on topic, period.=]

    Yes I am suggesting shooting around waves and frequencies just like blood, and using the tesla scalar wave generator ( notice I make no mention of the watch, nor state that these waves exist)
    to attempt to make a null zone ( aka a VOID, and according to the websters dictionary my usage of the term void is correct, being that words have multiple meanings.) or whatever else anyone would care to think of it as/call it, just to avoid future semanticxs yet again and get back on the topic of whether it is even provable in such a fasion. If you feel that method wouldnt work are there any that you feel would?

    theres so much up for discussion if you could all just stop trying to place me on the side of the manufacturer.

    Once again, so we are clear, i believe it to be bunk bogus bs, can we get back to the topic of whether it is even provable, whether by any method. My mind is open and I DO FEEL it is worth discussing or i wouldnt be posting.

    Thanks for the consideration.

    Give a person a fish and feed them for a day.
    Teach a person to fish and they will eat for life.
    Teach a person to learn and they will learn to
    teach.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.