Thank you very much, Les.  I’m glad you created the site!

Watch out,someones pinched Zilches PC! - (That or he’s drunk) By the way,what is that you’re holding in your picture? I’m curious as hell! I come here ‘cause its the best site ive found,and ive looked a lot being an almost compulsive reader.A lot of the aussie sites seem a bit nasty and snarky for no good reason.Strangely my interests seem to mirror Les’s-(Perhaps my dad had a love-child on a stop over in the navy!!)..Next thing he’ll say he loves Monty Python!It would be awesome to get all the regulars together for a bbq - Then again DONT,as i’d be hell jealous being on the other side of the globe and all.Cheers and Big Up Ya!!

hey Frumpa- nobody’s pinched my PC- I have a Mac.
What I’m holding in the picture is a piece of kelp I’ve made into a horn.  I do that occasionally, but many people still seem to like me…

With all the talk of “more cowbell” in this thread, I thought some of you would appreciate this particular Gravatar icon I came across:

I’m here because I did a search for a part of the quote, “I am treated as evil by those who feel persecuted because they are not allowed to force me to believe as they do.” -Unknown

I stayed because I noticed people here were pretty open minded, usually respectful of other people’s opinions, and actually not afraid to admit when they are wrong.  I actually don’t fit in all that well anymore to the Christian bulletin boards.  Just an hour ago I wrote a topic for the Christian board I use encouraging them to reevaluate their use of apologetics because of things I have learned from participating in discussions on this site.

My main desire to stay is to dispel as best I can the use of steretypes when interacting with each other.  I’ve already stated my biggest pet peeve is stereotyping.  You can’t have a reasonable argument with someone and certainly can not respect someone with a stereotype influencing your thought process during such an argument.  Most of you have good reason to have the stereotypes you have for people.  I can not deny that, but I think I am not a stereotypical Christian and I hope all of us can learn to get along on the merits of our posts and ideas and not by what we think the other person is by a few words they might say.

Just an hour ago I wrote a topic for the Christian board I use encouraging them to reevaluate their use of apologetics because of things I have learned from participating in discussions on this site.

I hope you advised them to skip apologetics altogether?

Originally posted by elwedriddsche:
I hope you advised them to skip apologetics altogether?

Something like that.

Theo,

You can’t have a reasonable argument with someone and certainly can not respect someone with a stereotype influencing your thought process during such an argument.  Most of you have good reason to have the stereotypes you have for people.

I agree with that assessment, except for the last line.  I have several very good friends who are deeply Christian.  One of them is very much a fundamentalist and quite evangelical to boot.  On the other hand, one is quite liberal, and though he interprets the bible as literal and inerrant, he tends to focus mostly on the sections that argue for tolerence and compassion over the more fire and brimstone stuff.  Moreover, another two of my friends whom are quite dogmatically religious are among some of the smartest people I know (one in fact just began working on a PhD at Harvard), while some of the people I’ve encountered who self report as Christians surprise me in the fact that they’re still alive (they’re so, let’s see how to put it mildly . . . stupid, that I’m not sure how they remember to breath).  So I don’t actually hold many stereotypes about Christians (with the exception of southern baptists, I guess I do assume that they’re homophobic and sexist, because I’ve yet to encounter one in real life who isn’t).

Originally posted by Socialist Swine:
(with the exception of southern baptists, I guess I do assume that they’re homophobic and sexist, because I’ve yet to encounter one in real life who isn’t)

Well let me be the first to attempt to introduce myself as a Southern Baptist who is not sexist or homophobic.

I’ve already stated my biggest pet peeve is stereotyping.

Now there’s a table we can all set our coffee on.  Atheists are as often stereotyped by christians as christians are by atheists.  (Offers handshake)

(shakes hands)

(theocrat) Something like that.

Facetiousness aside, it would help. Nothing annoys non-believers more than being confronted with yet another “how to debate an atheist” guide.

Atheists are as often stereotyped by christians as christians are by atheists.

See above. I’m sick and tired of Christians pontificating about The Atheist Is As The Atheist Does in their own lairs and likewise, I have little patience for atheists returning the disfavor, even if the requirement to evangelize makes the relationship asymmetrical.

In other words, it’s one thing to dislike somebody that happens to be an (a)theist, but something else entirely to dislike somebody because said person is an (a)theist.

I did actually tell them to leave the apologetics at home along with other things, but you don’t want me to post another irrelevant useless article.

Huge thanks to Geekmom & decrepitoldfool for thier help with getting a Gravitar up and running...Thanks also to Les for supplying the pic.I realise its not particularly individual or original but I havent laughed so hard in yonk reading that sketch.Will Ferrell & Christopher Walken together= Champagne comedy!

(theocrat) but you don’t want me to post another irrelevant useless article.

Truth be told, it would interest me.

I have participated in more than a few “what would it take to convince an atheist” discussions. By and large, the answer is quite simple - atheist and agnostics will acquire a god-belief if and when they will. Or never. In either case, apologetics only breed resentment and frustrations on both sides.

Theo,

I would like to think that you aren’t homophobic or sexist.  However, I will let time prove that to me (though I will extend to you the benefit of the doubt for now).

I came here because I was surfing for blog programs, and clicked on a link from someone’s blog to a site for a program that Les apparently uses.  I was dismayed to find I had to pay for the program, and SEB caught my eye from the links for “recently updated sites”.  I forgot all about blog programs and spent the afternoon reading Brock’s post “tell me how I hurt you and I’ll stop” (or something like that) and was hooked.  It was love at first site.
(commence tomato flinging)

Seriously, this site appeals for so many reasons-the geekiness + intelligent, interesting discussion; the respectful, direct, honest atmosphere...I think I also identify with Les because...ok, this is silly, but he is from Michigan and I am from Ohio.  Most cool, liberal sites I read are made by people out in big cities and what not, certainly nowhere near the incredibly uncool small town midwest.  It makes me feel strong to know that other midwesterners are out there who think and behave liberally.  (and dude, who cares about college football, really?!)

Frumpa- The salmon MOOOUSSE!

RE: stereotypes - I still think it’s valuable to be able to talk about trends in groups.  I like deconstructing stereotypes to understand why they’re wrong, but the truth is, talking about groups trends allows us to analyze movements and common experiences.  First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is...doesn’t mean I think that all Christians are fundies, or even that all fundies are the same.  But I can’t really have a discussion without some kind of identifying label.

Shana,
MrsDOF is from Ohio though I was borned in San Francisco.  There are open-minded people everywhere but I know what you mean… sometimes we learn to keep our heads down in the prevailing culture.  (Amazing how quickly musical instruments materialized in Afghanistan when the Taliban were forced out of power!)

And dude, who cares about college football, really?

‘Heard that!  For some reason I have never been able to work up any interest at all in people chasing a ball around a field. 

I agree stereotypes are useful as (fashionable word alert) placeholders in discussion, and in that context they’re fine.  I just think they’re abused in non-constructive ways a lot, that’s all. I know lots of smart Southerners, open-minded Christians, etc.  Thinking of them I am a bit uncomfortable equating them under a broad brush with bona-fide idiots of region or religion.  So I try to use stereotypes in discussion in a limited and controlled way, to preserve their usefulness.

I agree stereotypes are useful as (fashionable word alert) placeholders in discussion, and in that context they’re fine....

I couldn’t agree more...I just think that sometimes, myself included, we get so caught up in defining/deconstructing the stereotype that we can’t have a discussion, or at least that it derails the discussion...sometimes it’s an important/relevant turn (as it is in this one), but, I think most SEB posters understand the pros and cons of that particular place-holder. 

Also, I think that we tend to go in waves...one person says, hey, be careful with that stereotype!  and then a bunch of people add to that comment, and the usefulness of the placeholder is diminished, and vice versa...we kind of oscillate around a middle ground that we never quite reach.

Does that make sense to anyone else?

Whoops, PS. ROCK ON, MrsDOF!  Thanks for the liberal-bolstering, DOF!

I read Les’ profile, and I was just like, “OOH!  Someone is playing for my team!!  Hooray!” Way to go challenging the placeholder for small town midwestern types!

I like that word, placeholder...there’s so much more depth apparent in the word itself.

Oh, thank Smee!  I thought I was the only one who never liked football.  I’m twice an atheist down here in Texas because of it ...

Hey Shana - talking about sterotypes and all reminded me of the next part..."You Americans are all alike;its always"Let me tell you this"or"How about that”,Well your DEAD now so SHUT UP” - Death.

I LOVE that, Frumpa.

“Be quiet! Englishmen, you’re all so fucking pompous, and none of you have got any balls.”

That may well be my favorite scene in the whole movie…

Sorry for the digression…

Hmmm...dont remember the englishmen part so I hope you havent taken my post the wrong way.(I’m Australian anyway )

Why do Christians come here… And more specifically, why do they post here…

As a Christian, posting here, I suppose I’m obligated to explain why it is that I am writing this very post.  As was previously suggested, I, just today, stumbled upon this web-site while doing a google search on something unrelated.  The reason I am posting is that I thought that the question posed in this thread was a good one, and no one seems to be providing any decent answers, so I thought that I would write one.

Let me pose an analogy that might help explain why many Christians feel the need to post here.

Suppose you came across a web-site that was dedicated to the idea that Hitler never existed and the Holocaust never happened.  The web-site is apparently a gathering point for people sharing this view to come and pat each other on the back for being so enlightened and free-thinking to realize that Hitler and the Holocaust are mere myths.  Most “believers”, upon finding such a web-site, would be outraged (and probably rightly so).  They would likely feel obligated to post there probably in an attempt to convince the “unbelievers” of their error.  (This effect is amplified if the “believer” believes that the “unbeliever” is in danger of his life or soul because of his “unbelief”.)

Now you may say, “That’s not the same thing.  The Holocaust is established fact, while the events of Christianity are not.” Well, why do you say that?  because we have living, first-hand witnesses?  What about 50 years from now?  what about 2000 years from now?  because the event is documented?  The events of Christianity are documented.  because there is physical evidence for the event?  The Bible is also supported by archeological evidence.  You can’t prove scientifically that the Holocaust actually happened.  And as time goes on, the evidence that it is more than myth will become less and less first-hand.  I could go on, but I’m getting off-topic as it is.