I go here because I like to read what Les has to say about different things.  While we don’t agree on everything, I know Les is a stand-up guy who enjoys helping others.  Knowing his past with the institutionalized church, I want to see his thought process, how he comes to his conclusions.  What’s wrong with wanting to know what others think about life and it’s big questions?

I forgot to mention I also like to read his posts on World of Warcraft since I’m also a WoW junkie too.

I wonder the same thing often but find myself pleased just as often that they are. It takes two sides to build an interesting discussion and sometimes it helps us see the imperfections in our own belief systems. It certainly helps us better recognize who the lazy thinkers are.

If nothing else, it helps build a thread into a top ten most commented one. Every thread in that list owes it’s position to fundies. It’s enough to make you jealous. I want a “foaming at the mouth fundie” to adopt one of my threads just so I can have that distinction here. I want crazy talkers to congregate there and swell the subject matter beyond any hope of recognition as what it started out to be. Is that so much to ask?

We talk about them to them, they talk back. That’s how memorable threads are made.

I was wondering, speaking of religion, if you’ve seen this? Councilman Faces Recall For Not Reciting Pledge. It could be quite interesting depending on how and how far it goes.

At least most Christians have some capacity for independant thought, and probably arrived here through some errant web search before feeling the need to defend their beliefs.

There have been cases with other religions where the religion’s “authorities” organised a concerted campaign to flood critical websites with postings from “believers”. Scientology is a classic example of this; when the Battlefield Earth movie turned out to be a complete turkey (surprise) the managers of the corporation (oops, I mean the “priests” of the “church") sent an order to their slaves (erm, “believers") to go post as many positive reviews as they could at imdb.com. Very similar campaigns also happened on the newsgroup alt.scientology.

Go to any forum containing religious skepticism and you will find believers. Some of them are evangelists (small e); some of them are fruitcakes; some of them are hired shills; some of them really are looking for answers and attempting to think critically; some of them just enjoy a good flame war.

Personally, I always enjoyed Peter MacNicol’s rethinking of the question in Ghostbusters II:

“Why are you came?”

“Who are you?”
“What do you want?”
“Why are you here?”

Sorry.  Babylon 5 flashback.

There are a few religious posters here who seem to enjoy the discussions without getting frustrated.  Obviously they’re not trying to change anything.  It appears that they just want to represent the other side of the argument and are satisfied once they’ve spoken their piece.

I’m here because Les is an interesting fellow, and I tend to agree with him more often than not (hence frequent cross-posting), and even where I don’t agree with him, he’s an interesting and thought-provoking read.

I’m certainly not here to sway anyone to a particular orthodoxy—hell, I’m not orthodox in a number of ways (not even always with myself), so I’m hardly one to talk.

I tend to avoid the discussions here that have devolved into “Religious folks are a bunch of retards!” “Oh, yeah? Atheists are a bunch of ... um ... godless retards!” simply because there’s no signal there, just noise.

***Dave, I knew there was something extra k00l about you ...

We live for the One,
We die for the One ...

Geek(no one listens to Zathras)Mom

We are grey…

If you value your life - BE SOMEWHERE ELSE.

“Woo hoo?!?”

...okay, now I’m just turning into a JMS QuoteMachine(TM).

Zathras was my favorite character on B5…

“Zathras used to being beast of burden. Zathras have sad life, probably have sad death, but at least there is symmetry”

Sadly, while surfing to find this quote and pic I learned that Tim Choate was killed on 9/30/2004 when his motorcycle was struck by a car. Zathras was right - he did have a sad death. He is survived by his wife and son.

I have always been here. - Kosh

Damn, that was the perfect response to GeekMom’s question!

Why are you here GeekMom, maybe I missed it, but I was wondering.

Well, after Netslaves closed shop, I wandered the netscape.  My browser had a flat… this was the nearest site, liked it, thought I’d stick around.

Oh, wait.  I’m not a religious poster(boy).

Let me pass on to you the one thing I’ve learned about this place: No one here is exactly what he appears.

G’Kar

I want a “foaming at the mouth fundie� to adopt one of my threads just so I can have that distinction here.

Aw!  I’ll see what I can do, which ones are yours?

probably arrived here through some errant web search before feeling the need to defend their beliefs.

Yup.  plus as I mentioned in “Theocracy” I enjoy intelligent & somewhat kind (though perhaps with a sense of humor) places outside a Christian bubble.  Plus, y’all just got lucky that I am stressed out from work & social requirements that require me to retreat into cyberspace...Oh, & as Chris mentioned, my example on “Theocracy” wasn’t personal, I also like to keep up on certain video games…

I admit, my frustration has gotten the best of me often, I just have a different temperment than ***Dave & feel the need to defend others (Theocrat & Kelly) even if I can let it go as far as myself & God.

Hmmm. It strays further afield, but there are some other B5 quotes that would be appropriate here.

G’KAR:  By G’Quon I can’t recall the last time I was in a fight like that!  No moral ambiguity, no hopeless battle against ancient and overwhelming forces.  They were the bad guys, as you say, and we were the good guys!  And they made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor.

-- “A Late Delivery from Avalon”

Or, perhaps, from the same episode:

MARCUS:  You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair; then I thought, ‘Wouldn’t it be much worse if life *were* fair, and all the terrible things that happened to us come because we actually deserved them?’ So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe.

Or ...

SHERIDAN: Oh, now that is a lie!
DELENN: Minbari do not lie.
SHERIDAN: Well then it is slander.
DELENN: To be slander, it must be false. That’s two down.
SHERIDAN: Well then it’s damned inconvenient.
DELENN: The truth always is.

-- B5: Thirdspace

Since there aren’t too many True Believer^TM responding to GM’s question I’ll throw out my feelings.

Aside from a select few, I would say that the evangelicals come by SEB because they are spiritually chicken-shit and posting here makes them feel good.  They figure they can hang around and spout their unfounded bullshit and feel as if they are doing something for their god.

Posting here allows them all the warm fuzziness of witnessing without getting their hands dirty.  It’s as if they’re saying “look how strong my faith is, I can post on an atheist website”.  As a minister I referred to these types as spiritual cowards.

We’ve got these multi-billion dollar churches all over the country receiving tax exemptions for their so-called charitable work but it’s all a facade.  The Protestant and Catholic churches take in more than $30 billion a year, making the church number 4 on the Fortune 500.  One would think they’re wouldn’t be a homeless person in the country, or a child without winter clothes.

Posting here is merely an extension of the church for them.  The post and then go back to their bible studies to rearm and then return to post again.  Calling these people Christians is demeaning to works of Christ.

They come because they see the name of this blog and immediately relate to at least one of those three words, sometimes even hitting the trifecta.

Hurry up and EVOLVE you narrow minded pinheads.

We’ve got these multi-billion dollar churches all over the country receiving tax exemptions for their so-called charitable work but it’s all a facade.  The Protestant and Catholic churches take in more than $30 billion a year, making the church number 4 on the Fortune 500.  One would think they’re wouldn’t be a homeless person in the country, or a child without winter clothes. -DS

Good one, DS.

(sputter, sputter) “But!  But!  The parking lot needs paved and the carpet in the sanctuary is positively threadbare!  Well OK, not threadbare.  But what were they thinking when they chose those colors?”

Churchians, don’t say it isn’t so - you know it is.  Exceptions too few to matter.  Even “good” churches full of “nice” people.  Take your church’s budget and draw yourself a nice pie chart if you like, but prepare for a shock.

Maybe they’re naturally argumentative?

Deadscot, rumor has it that one True Believer^TM came here to reaffirm his belief.

ellie said: Aw!  I’ll see what I can do, which ones are yours?

You’ve just GOT to master that search feature. I’ll give you a hint, ellie. On the main page, scroll down till you see an entry with my byline. An even better hint: “Why Children Cannot Speak To God In School”

If I have to ask for a “foaming at the mouth fundie” to visit my thread, it just isn’t the same somehow. If you really cared, you’d just come on in and and foam away.

Don’t patronize me though. If you’re really foamy, that’s good. But I can always recognize a gimmee.

I’m as good as in the top ten if you come ‘cause I’ve seen you make as many as 7 comments in a row when you really applied yourself. A couple of dozen visits and I’m there.

Oh, and thanks, in advance.

Take your church’s budget and draw yourself a nice pie chart if you like, but prepare for a shock.

I’m sure we have the best churches tithes and donations can buy.