I believe that quantum physics is largely bullshit and that religion is largely bullshit but that eventually science will discover something larger than both.

It fits the criteria of belief in the classic sense, since I have no evidence to back it up… just a deep sense that it is true.

Probably the strangest thing I believe in, from an outsider’s perspective, would be UFO’s. More specifically, the notion that some are extraterestrial in origin. Unidentified Flying Objects are fairly commonplace. After all, in the broad sense, the term simply means that it has yet to be identified. Granted, the “strange” label probably comes from the multitude of nutjobs who investigate them and the lack of serious research into the matter by a credible agency.

Come to think of it, we had an incident not too long ago near our airfield that caused quite a stir at our command. I haven’t been specifically “ordered” not to disclose the details of what happened but I was told it would be in my best interests not to. So, here’s what happened....
About two months ago, the tower operations center identified an object approximately five nautical miles from our perimeter that was moving erratically and promptly dissapeared from radar after about ten minutes. I was stationed on the flightline that night and the AC (Air Controller) on duty had spotted what she later described as a bright orange ball hovering about 500 meters above the ground no more than roughly half a mile outside base. The Catania Airport which is about 25 nautical miles out also tracked the object on radar until they too lost contact with it. The AC repeatedly made attempts to contact the pilot or pilots and received some sort of static interference at which time she notified myself and the ODO(Officer of the Deck) and FES(Fire and Emergency Services) because she believed it was an incoming aircraft with an engine pod on fire. Well, we proceeded to the inboard runway to wait for its arrival but nothing ever showed. The flight logs from the tower had no scheduled aircarft for that night (0000-0600) and neither did the Catania Airport. We contacted the local Carabinieri and Polizia through our translator liazon’s office and they said they had recieved several reports of the object, but they had otherwise failed to find any more information on it. The following morning while we were in dismount it was brought to the attention of the watch section that NCIS had been notified as well as the AMC(Air Mobile Command) and not to speak of it. Our watch commander for the night said that it wasn’t an official order but that it would be prudent if we just didn’t talk about it. After that, the AC concerned was transfered to a different division of the operations department, the ODO was relieved of command and I haven’t been scheduled for a flightline rover watch since. I honestly don’t know what to believe, but I do know that the circumstances were incredibly suspicious.

Nice post, Spocko, and welcome back!  I’ve missed your learned and slightly weird slant here.

I agree with you about the trouble we get into saying we “believe” something, especially when the “something” is “having another beer”.

I actually don’t find the phenomenon of faith that strange.  True, it doesn’t take too much knowledge of the world to see that it’s not six thousand years old.  But as you say, it’s a very powerful meme.  Some say we are probably genetically predisposed to religion, but even if we aren’t, we are certainly predisposed to believe what our parents tell us.  Our lives depend on it.  And for those who have gotten accustomed to life, and fear death (if we didn’t know we were going to die, I can’t imagine religions ever evolving), religion has a powerful carrot and stick: heaven and hell.

Not only that, but religions have proved time and again their prowess in organizing societies and fighting off enemies.  So I find it easy to imagine the power of the faith meme.  Of course, nowadays religions are proving to be more and more troublesome.

swordsbane:  I don’t know much about quantum physics, and what I do know is surpassingly strange.  But I sort of doubt, that is I suspect, that most of it is not bullshit.  I turn you over to Richard Feynman:

The theory of quantum electrodynamics has now lasted for more than fifty years, and has been tested more and more accurately over a wider and wider range of conditions. At the present time I can proudly say that there is no significant difference between experiment and theory!

Just to give you an idea of how the theory has been put through the wringer, I’ll give you some recent numbers: experiments have Dirac’s number at 1.00115965221 (with an uncertainty of about 4 in the last digit); the theory puts it at 1.00115965246 (with an uncertainty of about five times as much). To give you a feeling for the accuracy of these numbers, it comes out something like this: If you were to measure the distance from Los Angeles to New York to this accuracy, it would be exact to the thickness of a human hair. That’s how delicately quantum electrodynamics has, in the past fifty years, been checked-both theoretically and experimentally.

That’s pretty impressive confirmation that they’re at least on the right track.  Of course, it might well be that quantum mechanics is tossed out by the next revolution in physics.  But it certainly is good enough to make pretty accurate predictions.  Newton got defenestrated by Einstein, but Newtonian physics is still good enough to get us to the Moon and back.

Neodromos- strange stuff.  I think it highly unlikely that any extraterrestrials are visiting us.  But I too saw something strange once, and strangely enough, it was in Italy too- on the island of Sardinia.  We were hiking along the coast back home one evening, and I saw a flock of birds over the Mediterranean.  Then, in the sky among the birds (or behind or in front- they were backlit and too far away to see clearly) I saw two or perhaps three objects.  Cursing for having brought no binoculars, I tried to make them out.  They looked spherical, and one seemed to have a cross-shaped top.  I watched them until they disappeared over the island.

Now, it was probably something explainable.  I first thought “weather balloons”.  The strange thing was though, they were moving with the birds, not drifting.  Perhaps some experimental aircraft?  I’ll never know.

Help I cannot stop myself. 

I beleive that the aliens are already here controling our government.  They have a secret base under the airfield Neodromos is posted at and now all the humans who know about it must be “eliminated”, via transfer, orbital mind control laser or mind control powers (source of control unknown) or worse.  Neo you are in serious danger!  Do you have any tinfoil?  Make yourself a hat from tinfoil as soon as posible to protect you from the orbital mind control lasers.  They may also try to abduct you, so be careful and don’t travel alone, at night, in the countryside.  Watch out for people talking into their watches which are known to be used as alien communication devices.  Don’t wear sunglasses as they may think you are onto them and try to eliminate you.

Here are tips on making a thought screen helmet:

Stop Abductions

Here is inforamtion to help protect you from alien abduction:

Abduction Home

On a more serious note, I want to believe in UFO’s etc, however I believe it is more likely a natural phenomenon of the universe we have not yet come to understand (coloured lights in the sky) like a form of ball lightning.  The gulf of space is so large, this star and it’s orbiting debris may be all we have.  I believe we will go to other stars but clearly and unfortunately not in my lifetime

Great post Spocko and thanks for sharing Neo

While natural phenomena would account for some incidents and aircraft others, have a look at the Tehran UFO Incident. Good stuff.

Is anybody else laughing their ass off at the scoffing at a God, but a belief in aliens?

That assumes that both aliens and God are equally unlikely.

Personally, because of what I know about all the ridiculously extreme environments on Earth that life shouldn’t be able to exist in but does anyway, I consider the idea that life exists on other planets to be a safe bet to take. Given what I understand of the problems that need to be overcome to facilitate interstellar travel I find it considerably less likely that said aliens are visiting Earth on a regular or even semi-occasional basis.  That said I still find the possibility that aliens exist and have developed the means to visit the Earth way more likely than the supposed existence of God(s).

And when you consider just how unlikely I think it is that we’ve been visited by aliens that should give you a good idea of how unlikely I consider the possibility of God(s) existing to be.

Aliens: natural
Gods: supernatural

That’s the basic difference.

As Les said, it seems likely that there’s life out there, although the authors of Rare Earth make the case that, while simple life forms are likely to be common in the Universe, advanced forms are much less likely.  They point out many unusual conditions conditions on Earth, including the fact that we have a giant planet not too far away, Jupiter, that sweeps up most of the debris that would otherwise hit the Earth, with devastating effects.  Check it out.  Of course, there are many imponderables, so who knows?

But if there are no aliens, where did the Body Thetans come from?

I can see your point, although I don’t neccessarily agree with it in full.  I guess the best way I can explain it is that I believe in the possibility of extraterrestrial life.  There are more than 200 billion stars in our galaxy alone, trillions in the whole Universe.  Each star has the possibility of supporting at least one planet.  Statistically, there is a fair chance of finding some form of life amongst trillions of possible planets.  That doesn’t mean I actually believe that little green men are flying down into cornfields in Oklahoma and bungholing drunken rednecks.  My belief in the possibility of aliens is rational, given information known.  Since I have yet to be presented with any reputable evidence of this happening, I don’t believe that they come to Earth and annaly probed Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel.

Following this train of thought, the possibility of a deity is not irrational.  However, there is no evidence for the belief, hence my lack of belief.

Consi: Is anybody else laughing their ass off at the scoffing at a God, but a belief in aliens?

No, Consi, I can’t say I am. Think about how expansive the universe is, and think about how many other galaxies there are out there. We don’t (yet) have conclusive evidence of extraterrestrial life, just as we don’t have any evidence for a supernatural creator. However, the two examples are far from comparable: one involves a phenomenon that could possibly even in our lifetimes be discovered; the other is a matter of faith alone.

“Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman’s back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.”

Crash Davis

Sorry, couldn’t resist....

Strangest thing I believe- Somehow that everything will turn out alright. Given the people I have to deal with daily- completely irrational, and that’s before I have to force myself to ignore Mass Extinction Events.

It seems improbable to me that we’re alone in the universe given its size and the varied forms that life can take—not to mention the bizzare environments in which life exists here on earth.

I believe Aliens or extraterrestrial life is possible but I doubt that anyone has seen any.  The way I rationalize this is by asking two simple questions: “If you were traveling to another galaxy and came across a planet you assumed had life on it, would you sneak in and check it out?  Or would you try make contact? 

To me it doesn’t make sense that another life form that was intelligent enough to do some of the shit believers claim, would say, “Hey I wonder what people are doing on that planet?  Ah come one Fred just a little peak? “

I believe in the possibility of a creator of the universe, but doubt the existence of one.

I no longer believe in stupid conspiracy theory bullshit cause after hoping over to this site I realized it was a waste of time and energy.  The irrational idea of the conspiracy theory seemed enticing at first because it attempts to explain the, well what seems to be, unexplainable of a really emotional event.  But in all actuality it is stupid, irrational, and really a slap in the face to those affected by the event the conspiracy theory attempts to explain.

I believe that science can explain a lot, but that it’s misuse will become stronger unless something is done to truly take religion out of the government and keep in science.  All I can say is those of you in the US, pay attention to your local government and make sure that the ID bullshit stays out.  At least become active for that cause.

Spocko: At first glance this question appears simple enough.

It does, doesn’t it?
I believe, compared to the 60s and 70s, today’s music is crap ... is that an opinion, a belief or both?

Shelley: It seems improbable to me that we’re alone in the universe

It’s probably why gods were invented - so people would have something to believe in.

Given the almost infinite numbers of potential solar systems around us I believe it’s rather egotistical to believe we’re the only ‘intelligent’ life-form in it.

R Buckminster Fuller: Sometimes I think we’re alone. Sometimes I think we’re not. In either case, the thought is staggering.

LuckyJohn: I believe, compared to the 60s and 70s, today’s music is crap ... is that an opinion, a belief or both?

I completely agree. I’d say it would technically be an opinion, though some may also label it a belief (as in, “I believe today’s music sucks in comparison to the great music of yesteryear").

LuckyJohn: I believe, compared to the 60s and 70s, today’s music is crap ... is that an opinion, a belief or both?

Actually, I’d label that one as a fact.

Oh, and by the way, how ya doing, Sadie?

I’m just doing swimmingly, my dear. How about yourself? 

We had a lot of 78s at home when I was a kid. It was all my parent’s music of course but there was a lot I liked.
I downloaded Les Paul and Mary Ford’s How High the Moon and The World is Waiting for the Sunrise.
I still love the sound of them both but, as good as it is, I think my appreciation stems more from nostalgia than how good it was although Les Paul did revolutionise electric guitar and ways to record in general.
Translate all that to mean I believe every generation knows at least two things: Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it and wiser than the one that comes after it (I’d attribute it to someone if I knew who to).
Now I’m listening to Meatloaf’s Paradise by the Dashboard Lights.
Yeah today’s music is fucked. 

I’m just doing swimmingly, my dear. How about yourself?

Overworked and underpaid with very little in the way of free time, darling. Still, not too bad, having some good times. Alwyas a pleasure to chat you up, but I think we occasionally bollocks up a perfectly good thread with out flirting.

Maybe I need to work one of these instant messenger type gadgets. Any suggestions.

Actually, I’d label that one as a fact.

Dammit… you beat me to it.

is that an opinion, a belief or both?

I think the difference lies in your conviction of the statement.  LJ, you seem to say that todays music sucks as if you firmly believe it to be true.  I believe that to be a belief.

KPG: Alwyas a pleasure to chat you up, but I think we occasionally bollocks up a perfectly good thread with out flirting.

I like to think that we enhance already-fascinating threads. 

Anyway, hang in there. It’s good that you’re having good times, and as Howard Jones once said, things can only get better.

LJ says: Now I’m listening to Meatloaf’s Paradise by the Dashboard Lights.