Welcome to life under the Patriot Act revisited.

Posted by Les on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 at 01:39 PM. Read 1165 times. Tags: , ,
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Way back in December of 2002 I wrote a small entry on Nicholas and Mary Monahan and their run-in with airport security. I was appalled at their treatment to say the least. Now I get word that a fellow blogger has had a less outrageous, but still very upsetting encounter with Federal TSA screeners as well. John of John P. Hoke’s Asylum warns us that the TSA Screeners apparently are allowed to use their discretion in determining which of your personal belongings they can steal... er… I mean “confiscate.”

I arrive at the airport, check my bags and head on down to the Security Screeners, these supposedly well trained, well mannered Federal Employees. I took both of my laptops out of their bags, and along with my shoes, jacket and carry on bags, placed them on the conveyor belt to the x-ray machine.

One screener asked to manually inspect one of my bags, knowing that I had nothing in it that was prohibited based on the TSA’s own site I allowed the search. This inspector found a lighter that I was given by my step daughter for our first Father’s Day together. It was a cigar lighter that did not run on Liquid Fuel, but gas. (Unabsorbed Liquid fueled lighters are prohibited based on the above PDF). He looked at it and exclaimed, “Wow I have always wanted one like this”. Then proceeded to tell me that he had to confiscate my lighter.

John challenges the screener’s judgment and proceeds to ask to speak with a supervisor. The supervisor pretty much tells him to fuck off and tries to dissuade John from filing a formal complaint via an attempt at physical intimidation. John took the form, got on his flight, and plans to follow up his initial entry with more as the story progresses. I’ll honestly be very surprised if he gets any justice out of this whole ordeal, but I fully support and encourage him to try.

This is the sort of crap that the Bush administration has brought us. When you can’t carry fucking fingernail clippers on an airline flight because it might be a weapon you know we’ve descended to new levels of silliness. Seriously, what the fuck is a terrorists going to do with fingernail clippers? Threaten to give the flight crew a really bad manicure if they don’t comply with his demands?? Man, I’m glad I don’t fly anywhere these days. I probably would’ve gotten arrested.

Comments:

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*** Dave United States Posted on 07/14/2004 at 03:28 PM

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As reported, outrageous, nasty, and unprofessional.  Not sure what it has to do with the PATRIOT Act, though.

And I agree that the restrictions are, in many cases, inane.  I could threaten someone with a ball-point pen a lot more easily than with fingernail clippers.  I don’t have a problem with screening processes per se, but the specifics are too often ridiculous (which only undermines the support for *needed* security).

I hope Mr Hoke gets his lighter (and an apology) back.

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/14/2004 at 03:47 PM

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It shows the authorities using a climate of fear to do whatever the hell they want. 

At least Mr. Hoke didn’t try to take any pictures.  He’d probably never have been heard from again.

On 9/11, airline and FAA policies dictated non-confrontational handling of hijackings on the assumption that there would be negotiation, etc. 

But keeping control of a plane is a do-or-die situation and every granny knows it now.  No one is ever going to take over an airliner again with anything less than a machine gun.  Pull out a boxcutter in a plane today and you’d just get the living crap beaten out of you.

It should be pretty easy to keep machine guns out of airplanes.  So why are they worried about every knitting needle, pocketknife, or fingernail clipper?

Oh, right - it keeps us all intimidated and afraid.

Charles James Barry Canada Posted on 07/14/2004 at 06:49 PM

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This is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard of.  Things like this are what is keeping me from visiting the US again.  i was there in 1993, saw many of your beautiful states, and would love to return, even possibly to live, but not while stupid people make stupid laws that give others the right to take advantage of you.  I have much respect for anyone who is not putting up with this and that are fighting back.

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/14/2004 at 08:11 PM

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Charles, you live in a place without stupid people or stupid laws?  Where is that?

Spocko United States Posted on 07/14/2004 at 08:33 PM

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Must - post - singing - Asscroft…

deadscot United States Posted on 07/14/2004 at 10:37 PM

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Charles - This country still has more personal freedoms than most any other.  Stupid people will come and go but as long as there is an America there will be bastards like us trying our damnedest to disabuse them.  If our liberties ever cease to exist they can effectively rename the country from USA to Bushland.
[Quote]"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”—Abraham Lincoln

etherian United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 12:59 AM

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My mother recently visited us, and here is what she was allowed to take aboard after they inspected her carry on bag, cuticle clippers, fingernail clippers, tiny sewing scissors, a widget - which is an open, flat-edged razor about two inches in length, and a variety of pottery tools, one of which is a nasty looking shallow scoop with a razor’s edge.  All that she was allowed.  She was NOT allowed to take the four sewing needles that came in the little sewing kit.

Charles James Barry Canada Posted on 07/15/2004 at 06:38 AM

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I live in Canada.  We have stupid people and stupid laws too but luckily we don’t have to deal with things like what I’ve read here...yet.  Like I said, I love the US and it’s people, it just infuriates what you are going through at this point.  keep fighting the good fight...the majority will prevail!

John Hoke United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 07:56 AM

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Charles,

the problem is what if the majority are assholes? Seriously, what if the majority of sheep people actually like this giving up of liberty for (false) security?

I really think that we are imploding here

feh!

trev Australia Posted on 07/15/2004 at 08:05 AM

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I am an Australian....soon to be another victim of the American “way of life”.Your so called freedoms are only a self perpetuating illusion...and none of you mob can bring yourselves to admit it.I mean just look at this outrageous article ...and I will bet any money that this is not an isolated incident....you have been ground down to a fully controlled society and it seems your misfits end up in the armed forces “obeying orders “ and it will not be long before your so called “freedom of speech” will be removed and all “subversive” ( read treason)activities will be put down with the full force of the military.You are about to become third class citizens .As the header of this website says “what the fuck is wrong with you people”
Pure arrogance will be your downfall and your belief in your own superiority has blinded all of you .Remember what your President said ...your either with us or your against us....What about keeping out of it. But NO ....(he tried to kill mah daddy )George says (bring it on)and I think the bible says ...Reap what ye has sown ...and look at you now ...mounting casualties and no end in sight ...barring nuking the lot of them ...and you actually created these monsters in the first place...and don’t say you didn’t ...it’s a fact. This is the degeneration of your once great peoples but you will not realise until it is too late to do anything about it....that is unless you WANT it to happen to you. I feel only pity for you and all the people you are about to drag down with you.That leaves only goodbye

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 08:33 AM

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Madbilly, I’d love to tell you that you’re full of shit but the little subversive voice inside me says you may be absolutely right.  Deadscot’s Lincoln quote says it all.

But this stuff is nothing new: we’ve been in danger of that happening almost from the start.  It’s a constant battle and we can’t give up. 

Charles, a lot of Americans are very fond of Canada.  Don’t listen to Bill O’Reilley.  (good advice for anyone!)

Captcha: peace. I like that.

momma United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 09:32 AM

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I call upon all citizens of these United States, be they God loving or not to come together againist the deterioration of this nation, the steady loss of our freedom, and the ignorance and apathy being shown by our people. Too many are dying needlessly here and elsewhere!  Too many of us are thinking I’m only one, I’m too old, I’m too young, I have my pride, and I have too much to lose. Wake up people because if we don’t do something soon there will be nothing left to lose. 

I don’t have the answer but surely some of you out there do.  Bring it out, I’m willing to help, support, and voice anything that will legally save this nation of ours. If the laws have to be changed to do it change them.  Not a bloody revolution but a creeping positive movement not unlike the movement that we are living through now only working to restore what voice and freedoms we have lost.

The cost, who knows. Is it worth it? Yes!  It is our lives and our childrens lives. We need to get them back!!

Spocko United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 10:50 AM

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Great quote deadscot - I added it to my site.
momma - I’m with you!

("time") - lunchtime for me

Manzabar United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 11:00 AM

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As another example of the stupidity of all this, a friend of mine recently took a flight and was told that she couldn’t take her sewing scissors on board (tiny things, with maybe half-inch blades) but her 12 inch stainless steel knitting needles were fine.

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chris United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 01:45 PM

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madscot… I have to challenge the frequently expressed American sentiment that you have more freedom than any other country in the world (I know, I know.. you said ‘most’...).

On what basis do you make this claim?  What makes the US more free than England, or Australia, or Switzerland, or Mauritius for that matter?  I have travelled around the world, I visit the US at least 20 times per year, and I seriously question the validity of your statement about freedom.  It’s a fallacy that is perpetuated by the people in power and the media… it’s like a self-help guru ‘if you tell yourself that you are thin and rich, then eventually you’ll believe it and will become thin and rich’.

I think it’s a load of bunk.

I feel more free and that I have more liberty when I am in countries other than the US.  I attribute that erosion of freedom to the current Administration, the Patriot Act, and the sickening quest for power of Bush’ corporate puppet masters.

And get this, I am a moderate, right of center, business owner and avowed capitalist (and caucasian, if that matters)!  Bush must be repugnant to offend my demographic.

Bring back Clinton and the good times when the worst scandals we had to face was ‘hide the cigar in the intern’.

Chris

TheJynXeD United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 02:09 PM

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To quote Benjamin Franklin: “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

-Nuff Said-

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 02:35 PM

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-Nuff Said-

I wish it were.  That Franklin quote, and many others from Jefferson, Paine, etc. making very clear the importance of freedom, can be found everywhere.  But the sheep continue bleating, “Save us, Mr. Bush!  Save us from the communists terrorists!”

I am somewhat heartened by the response in my town to Farenheit 911.  GKC theaters were too gutless to show it, so the Normal Theater is showing it.  They got some angry phone calls but the movie is still showing.

For several days it was sold-out and still has decent crowds.  Yes the movie is schlocky and slanted, but at least people are willing to plunk down for something that doesn’t put halos over the Bushies.

deadscot United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 04:09 PM

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I think it’s a load of bunk.

It’s a free country so you may think what you wish.  By all accounts the US consistently ranks in the top 5 for personal/civil liberties and in the top ten for economic/government freedom.  With over 200 countries in the world I would say that’s pretty good.

I too have traversed the majority of the globe and rarely have I had my personal liberties infringed upon but I have only resided in the US and Germany.  It makes quite a difference when you actually live in a country versus just passing through.

You mentioned Australia in your rebuttal.  Great country but they have flaws.  Free speech is not totally protected, protective quarantines are issued without scientific merit and they have high taxation, high unemployment and are fighting an uphill battle.

The UK just recently won the right for their own freedom of information act, something we’ve had in the US for a while.  They also have their own struggles with church & state as well as tort reform issues.

Switzerland is a beautiful country to visit to if you are foreigner and chose to live there you will most likely always be regarded as an outsider.  They have incredibly strict labor immigration laws to go along with there stagnant economy.

Mauritius?  I’m assuming you meant Mauritania which can hardly be considered a free state.  They are striving in the right direction as a third world country although they have several hurdles to overcome with the World Bank.

Basically I stand by initial point.  We’re not perfect but we as US citizens enjoy more personal freedoms than most and the only way they will go away is if we give them away.

rob adams United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 05:08 PM

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I am a huge fan of both Lincoln and Franklin, and consider the former equal to America’s Moses (beyond the simple slavery notion).  And, Franklin is in many ways our former Einstein, in both science and social commentary.  So, i admire him wicked highly.  But, like the religious, one shouldn’t really use quotes to support/disavow current situations.  Exegesis has its place, even in politics.

If stagecoaches could have killed hundreds in a single crash (relative to population concentrations to Franklin’s time), then i strongly doubt he would have opposed luggage searches.  Alas, they might have, at best, been able to kill a 100 in a spectacular gunpowder-laden crash.  Maybe someone else can think of an 18th Century equal to using a 747 to kill 300-600 citizens.  I cannot.

Personal liberties are fantastic (just like Kerry wink, but they must be measured with safety of the community.  Franklin was familiar with this, seeing he created some of the first fire brigades in America.  He understood intimately the balance between communal and individual concerns.  Our current host of liberals fail this reasoning test.

We live in era where millions of people can literally be held hostage by a few well placed individuals.  Franklin’s era had no such equal.

Place quotes in context, otherwise its akin to using the captcha text as divine approval to one’s views—and just as silly.

(and my captcha was Money, so (obviously) my comments hit the money on the spot, right?)

John Hoke United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 05:21 PM

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rob

Franklin was familiar with this, seeing he created some of the first fire brigades in America

Its a long walk to get from starting fire brigades that do not infringe on your personal liberties to things such as the Patriot Act, telling Habeus Corpus to fuck off, and entering an perpetual state of Fear &tm;

We live in era where millions of people can literally be held hostage by a few well placed individuals.  Franklin’s era had no such equal.

King George III?

My catptcha was field, as in out in left…

As someone who was standing in Liberty Plaza when the 2nd plane hit and was in City Hall park when the first tower began to fall, I think that it is more important to Keep our Liberties than to piss them away for a false sense of security.

Do you really think the TSA, Homeland Security, color codes and the rest of the Bush Fear Machine &tm; is making us safer, or just making us feel safer so we will go on spending our allmightydollars?

-john

madbilby Australia Posted on 07/15/2004 at 05:29 PM

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Well hasn’t this stirred up the self deluded and the purely selfish amongst you people. I mean have a look at deadscots minor diatribe about your much vaunted freedoms....it must be a cruel joke to realise (one day) that you are part of the problem yourself and the illusion of freedom has blinded you all to your predicament.Much care has to be taken over the next few years because you are about to lose your ability to voice any anti government sentiment....you will be branded a “terrorist” and stuck in some illegal prison in some backwater country with no recourse to any legal system.And have to endure torture and abuse....so much for your “freedom...but what about the rest of the world....grind it into your version of life and if you don’t like it....up against the wall.I can do nothing but laugh at your arrogance and reaffirm my pity for you all.Sorry if it seems a little extreme but you mob had better wake up before you are not allowed to wake up.I leave your future in your own hands or the hands of the “few who rule you” and wish you luck with your struggle against reality.

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 05:30 PM

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Rob, I don’t think anyone’s against luggage searches - we just want them to make some sense!  And be conducted in a way likely to engage the cooperation of ordinary citizens, not so unprofessionally as many examples have shown.  Searches conducted in this way actually yield better security.  When the public senses it’s just being kicked around by authoritarian pinheads, it doesn’t help security.

A little common sense - too much to ask?

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 05:33 PM

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Notwithstanding my poor grammer, I meant security is enhanced by searches conducted in a consistent, professional manner.  Gaa!  Time to get away from the screen and go home.

Captcha: stop

rob adams United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 05:35 PM

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(i love this new found sense of up-manship in America concerning terrorism—ack! Hey, i lived near Qiryat Shemona Israel, saw a boyfriend turned to hamburger by a hizbullah hanglider, then tanks in front of my bedroom, and lived to write and speak about it.  Do my statements now carry more weight?  Or greater validity?  I truly hope *not*.  Reason be my judge, alone.)

Back to reasoning-pure, sans anecdotal-weights and measures…

King George would have been hard-pressed to kill thousands of Americans in one sudden action, akin to September 11, 2001.  That’s why i used the stagecoach scenario:  It involved use of a communal liberty (freedom of regional movement) and a personal liberty (right not to be molested or one’s belongings to be searched whilst doing execercising such right).  The King’s hordes could not have, and would not have, killed thousands in one night of terror (i can go into detail as to why not, i know a bit about British colonial tactics in the Americas).

Look, it comes down to this…
Personal rights versus community safety.  If you think we have no right searching persons for semtex and expolsive plastique while boarding trains, planes and buses (BZW, one of my favourite movies), then i’d say you have a high disregard for the community’s well being.

I would have thought 9/11 drove that point home, as did the shot-over-the-bow anthrax test-punch we witnessed thereafter.

All i can say at this point, is wait till a hundred or so suicide bombers show up at local malls one fine summer Saturday, or 10-20 radiological firecrackers during a subways morning commute appear.  Then this discussion might have better understanding here in our relative disneyland.

.rob adams

deadscot United States Posted on 07/15/2004 at 06:18 PM

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Poor, poor madbilly.  Your email address speaks volumes about you.

Keep this in mind.  If the United States ever does get to the point where our personal liberties are completely taken away and people such as us are gone, the rest of the world will soon be subjugated to the same treatment.  Do you really think they would just allow you to sit by and laugh in the outback?

Look, it comes down to this…
Personal rights versus community safety.  If you think we have no right searching persons for semtex and explosive plastique while boarding trains, planes and buses (BZW, one of my favourite movies), then i’d say you have a high disregard for the community’s well being.

A bit paranoid are we?  I doubt the guy making $8.50 /hr sifting through my undergarments would recognize Semtex if I stuck it on his forehead.  All I’d ask is for the government not to do everything in typical knee-jerk fashion and go over-board without much common-sense being applied.

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