Virgin Mary image appears on a fence post. Religious-types freak out.

Posted by Les on Friday, January 31, 2003 at 03:36 PM. Read 9218 times. Tags: , , , ,
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Seems the folks down in Australia are getting a little of the old holy-image-appears-on-random-object-Christians-start-acting-like-total-whack-jobs fun of their own as of late. So says The Sydney Morning Herald:

Hundreds of believers flocked to the Coogee Beach headland yesterday to witness what they say is an apparition of the Virgin Mary.

Scores more hiked up the cliff path to touch, kiss and pray to the post which over the past few days has been transformed into something of a shrine, with pictures of the virgin, rosary beads and flowers piled around the white-washed fence.

Some wept, others sang, most prayed. As the sunlight reflected off a crook in the fence throughout the afternoon, hundreds claimed they could discern the shape of a veiled figure, and most agreed it was “Our Lady”.

They kissed a fence post?! Do they not realize that dogs tend to urinate on fence posts? I suppose that’s a little better than rubbing their naked asses against it.

This is one of those things about Christians that I just don’t understand. First off, why would Jesus and his Mother spend so much time drawing pictures of themselves into various random objects such as trees, fence posts, office building windows, or whatever other random inanimate object happens to be around at the time when they could do a much better job of letting people know they really exist by, say, materializing in the middle of the Today show set and performing an undeniable miracle such as making Al Roker actually interesting, or at least entertaining, to watch? Huh? Is that too much of a miracle for the King of Kings to pull off? I realize I’m asking a lot here.

No, instead we get nothing but pathetic doodles that have less artistic merit than something produced by a blind epileptic quadriplegic. Artistically speaking, Jesus should stick to turning water into wine and leave the art stuff to the professionals.

Secondly (yeah, I did have more questions), why the hell when one of these shoddy self-portraits appear do all the Christians in the immediate vicinity feel they have to:

A) rush immediately to the site in question
B) touch, rub, kiss, fondle, molest, pray, cry, or faint
C) generally make a nuisance of themselves?

They do that by clogging streets, leaving various “gifts” (someone eventually has to pick that shit up), trampling people’s lawns and just generally not doing anything productive or important despite all the problems they cause by being there. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

When was the last time you heard of a bunch of Jews freaking out because a vague image of some holy figure of their’s showed up on someone’s kreplach? How the last time you heard about a load of Muslims spazzing because one of them saw the face of Mahomet appear in the pattern of the wood grain of some random door someplace? You never hear about that sort of thing.

Occasionally the Hindus will make a big deal out of a statue of one of their various Gods they have supposedly drinking milk, but that’s about the only other religious group I can think of that has anything close to what the Christians are constantly reporting and it’s about a dumb as the idea of Jesus drawing bad pictures of himself everywhere.

Whatever. There are days when I’m feeling particularly evil that I just know there’s a great set of pranks to be pulled using this affinity of Christians to practically wet themselves over this sort of thing. One of these days I may have to see if I can pull it off.

Comments:

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ventricleman United States Posted on 05/08/2003 at 05:05 PM

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I also wont be posting this without using spell check.

nice....i WON’T either.  if spelling means so much to you eric, i sure hope youre doing a good job.  go get em squirt!

anyhoo,

“Jethric1”
Is Les an asshole? That’s up to you to decide. But regardless, he at least stays on the subject and tends to rely on logical progression of thought, rather than emotion and cliche to make his points.

good “masterdebators” (hehe, i made a funny.  look mommy!) always use emotion.  the reason i didnt read your bullshit above about infinity and whatnot was because it looked BORING.  have you ever seen someone stand in front of class and just read?  that was you.  in debate a judge (yes, there is a judge since both people are susposidly already unmovable from their views) will fall asleep if you read.  they could care less what you have to say about infinity.  but if they see a person who says something with “emotion and cliche”, they are MUCH more likely to win.  (hint hint, my medal?  of course, one of your “posse” found a way to pretty much demean it.  you know, i defanged you to not do it, so whats his face came in to do it for you.  nice work, squirt.  also, im still in school.  im sure all of you are like 45 or something and are in mid life crisises, so ill try to leave you alone.  and that medal was at a tournament.  i doubt any of you have ever debated in a tournament with REAL PEOPLE)

now, i know that this is in your safe realm of the internet where anything goes, but some of you obviously need to get out of your asshole phase.  kind of like having your time of the month everyday....  if you want to know people, and not just wonder in awe why they leave you, i think you should be nicer.  girls like that.  i would know, even though im only in high school.  (there is aboslutely no ground to be gained by you here.  i am in high school.  you are like 30-45 guys living in your basement still wondering what to do with your life.  get out of your “online fraternity” and go do things, mmmkay?)

and please, dont pin any of this on me.  all i did was simply turn the tables and put the magnifying glass on you.  (just think about it, mmmkay children?) if you can’t take the heat without throwing a big fit, then move.

au revoir.  i have other emails to respond to.

Les United States Posted on 05/08/2003 at 05:29 PM

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You are such a riot! I damned near fell out of my chair laughing my ass off over this latest response from you! Thank you for confirming that you’re still in High School, it really does explain a lot, and I mean A LOT, about you. Short attention span. Inability to spell or capitalize. General lack of clues.

Let’s see. First you say I’m a “high school rebel that had lots of friends in high school” who was only popular because of my “‘rebellious’ lack of religion” and that I had “theist friends” that I called “‘stupid’ and mindless” behind their backs and now I live “in a small house” and I “probably have a girlfriend” and my hobby is “making fun of people over the internet” because all the people I know in real life “either moved away or hate you.”

Now you’re telling me that I’m “45 or something and are in mid life crisises” and that I “need to get out of your asshole phase” and that “if you want to know people, and not just wonder in awe why they leave you” that I should be “nicer” because “girls like that” which you know because you’re apparently some form of expert on women while I’m “living in your basement” and still trying to figure out what to do with my life and that I should “get out of your ‘online fraternity’” and go do something worthwhile.

So, which is it? You seem to have all the answers here. Which of the above two descriptions is the “real” me?

I don’t have to sic anyone on you and I don’t have to rip you apart myself. Merely reading your comments is all anyone needs for a good belly laugh. Come on back once you make it past the age of 25 and have a little life experience under your belt and we’ll chat again. I used to go to school with kids just like you. They eventually grew up, I’m sure you will too.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Eric Paulsen United States Posted on 05/08/2003 at 06:54 PM

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Oh no, hoisted by my own petard! Damn that shareware spell checker, I will certainly give them a piece of my mind. Well, by virtue of that revelation alone I withdraw my arguments as spurious and award the debate medal to you.

I have not had a really good laugh in what seems like months...thanks testicleman. I don’t know what I found most amusing; your insistence that cliché is preferable in debate as opposed to facts, or that I am part of some Stupid Evil Posse. I do hope you keep coming back, I always wanted a pet monkey.

ventricleman United States Posted on 05/08/2003 at 07:08 PM

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obviously you have no common sense.

i could tell from your comments (earlier than mine) that you apparently have a wife and whatnot.  your private life i could care less about, but no one at my school has a wife yet.  therefore, you must be older than you.  when you apparently thought i thought that you were in high school, i was describing your past.  now im describing your present.  (note--both of these descriptions are my views, and not reality.  and no, i dont have all the answers about your pathetic life.  you do) perhaps thats a bit too hard for you to fathom.  i knew by the way you wrote that you were an adult.  obviously you couldnt tell how old i am.  oh well…

anyhoo, i find that im much more growed up than you are.  i dont go on the internet to destroy peoples lives.  i never did that as a child, maybe its genetic-hey!  a leftover piece from evolution!  yep.  that explains why youre such an asshole.  its not you, its your “instincts”. 

now, i seriously doubt that many people come to this website, or at least leave a post.  therefore, not many people (but you and your perverted mind, and of course, your posse of fellow atheists (perhaps)) and i dont see the humor in my posts.  maybe youre making something from nothing.  oh yeah, only god can do that...and you dont believe in god.  that sucks…

Well, you keep telling me directly and indirectly to leave, but you keep replying to my “unending” posts, but i doubt that ill come back.  in my mind, you’ll start searching for someone like me when youre 65 and dying of some rich country disease like cancer (another evil caused by genetics!  remember, its our fault we have it, not gods.  we’re the idiots that evolved.(humor, humor...I AM NOT BEING SERIOUS HERE, OK, SO YOU DONT NEED TO ARGUE IT WITH ME LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN DOING WITH MY SARCASTIC COMMENTS, D’ACCORD?  C’EST BON.) or heart disease, and want some assistance of some kind.  just trust me, im sure you will.

well, i have other emails to go use my “bad grammar skills” on, so a tout a’lheure!

ventricleman United States Posted on 05/08/2003 at 07:23 PM

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I have not had a really good laugh in what seems like months

depression is bad, eric person.  mabye you should get checked out. 

thanks testicleman

look mommy!  he made another funny!  lets see what other homosexual jokes he has up his pants..i mean sleeve.

I don’t know what I found most amusing; your insistence that cliché is preferable in debate as opposed to facts, or that I am part of some Stupid Evil Posse.

facts are boring. if a “cliche” (i have no idea what the hell that means...i have told you several times to think about what my sayings mean, but obviously you havent.  oh well...) makes sense, which mine does, then use it.  remember, its not the facts bub, its all about the judge.  there is no judge, but i know how they think (its pretty easy when youve debated before) and im sure that you would all lose terribly because of your attitudes.  im sure that this doesnt hurt much, but oh well..obviously none of you have debated in the “real world” with “real people” before.  im ignoring that fact as best i can.

and about your posse.  since you havent gotten out much, ill let this one slide. 

POSSE
Slang. A group of friends or associates.

obviously, your religion associates you with one another.  and if youre all friends (i could care less) then that only adds to the definition.  i didnt mean a group of gangsters dealing narcotics or something.  but again, you havent gotten out much, so its ok.

I do hope you keep coming back, I always wanted a pet monkey

im sure youre looking for an athority figure to lead you on.  i hope that the monkey isnt too hard as a parent, i heard hes kind of into that bondage thing.  indentured servitude, he calls it.  i hear he has a good personality though.

GOD United States Posted on 05/10/2003 at 05:12 PM

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To the Evil Bastard and his Correspondents:
HEY! Knock off that incessant chatter, will ya? I’m trying to get some rest here. Do you have *any* idea how much energy it takes to create an infinite number of parallel universes, every one of them filled with guys like you blathering endlessly about philosphy and religion and whether or not I exist… have a little consideration. I suppose I have only Myself to blame, of course, but it *is* tiring.

Hey Les, you think you have a good time observing and poking fun at the insanity? You should have my seat! It’s a laff riot from up here! And the funniest thing? Almost nobody gets it. Nobody sees that the the debate is irrelevant. (Granted, a lot of them can’t see it because they’re just not bright enough; again, mea culpa).

Here’s a key to understanding the big secret, unknown by most of the blind worshipful theists, and ignored by even the brightest thoughtful athesists:  I don’t exist, but I do exist. When you can hold those two ideas in your mind at the same time, really hold on to them and believe them both, then you’ve got a start on knowing what’s going on. But just a start, so don’t start getting uppity.

I’m gonna get a nap now.

-Infinitely Unconcerned with whether you believe anything I’ve said or not, I remain-- GOD

Les United States Posted on 05/11/2003 at 08:24 AM

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Well, that was amusing if nothing else. Though methinks someone’s been reading too much Douglas Adams as of late.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Scott United States Posted on 05/12/2003 at 06:54 AM

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Here’s another reason that I, at least, ignore anything Ventricleman has to say:

it’s hard to take anyone seriously who refuses to use simple rules when it comes to writing. you know, capitalization, things of that nature.

He does come across as a high school kid, doesn’t he?

Les United States Posted on 05/12/2003 at 08:57 AM

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My first impulse is to say that he came across more as a middle school or junior high school student, but then I realized that many high schools in America these days do allow folks with such weak literacy to graduate so it’s entirely possible he could be a high school student.

Which leaves me torn as I think the public education system is a good thing that is in bad shape right now. VentricleMan is a perfect example of the problems the public education system is experiencing.

We want teachers to do more than just teach. We want them to be surrogate parents and pastors and counselors, but only if they impart a limited range of values that differs from parent to parent. All of that on top of how to read, write, add and subtract. Then we reward them with sub-standard pay and swelling class room sizes and lawsuits if the teacher so much as dares to give little Johnny a failing grade.

The end result? Kids like VentricleMan who not only have a screwed up sense of reality, but are totally incapable of expressing themselves and their ideas in anything resembling a coherent fashion. These kids are supposed to be our future and someday he’ll be able to vote in national elections. Scary thought isn’t it.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

ventricleman United States Posted on 05/12/2003 at 03:53 PM

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its actually a more scary thought that the ADULTS of society are even more fucked up than the kids.  at least we have each other to look after rather than the pathetic role models the adults are.  all of them (including you, i must say) have major depression, a mid-life crisis, and denial/withdrawls.  apparently being a high school student is actually better than an adult.  at least they dont judge people AS MUCH as adults do.  adults seem to have all the answers, or at least allibies for why they dont, but deep down, all of them are depressed because they have closed themselves into a little room inside their brain and only come out to put people down.  i think thats kind of bad. 

here, even when you were bashing me for being bad at grammar, you all made LOTS of mistakes. 

it’s hard to take anyone seriously who refuses to use simple rules when it comes to writing. you know, capitalization, things of that nature.

are you a complete dumbass?  you didn’t even fucking capitalize the sentence you were bashing me for.  you REALLY have some problems.  and quite frankly, i dont give a damn about my capitalization.  you arent worth the effort.

My first impulse is to say that he came across more as a middle school or junior high school student, but then I realized that many high schools in America these days do allow folks with such weak literacy to graduate so it’s entirely possible he could be a high school student.

(the sentence below is BLATANTLY incomplete.  you need to connect the two, dumbass.  perhaps you should take a trip down “memory lane” and see who’s right)

Which leaves me torn as I think the public education system is a good thing that is in bad shape right now. VentricleMan is a perfect example of the problems the public education system is experiencing.

quite frankly, its amazing how you complain.  i mean, you know EVERY issue on how teachers lives SUCK.  but do you do anything whatsoever about them?  no.  all you do is blame the “other tax payers” for the flaws that the schools apparently have.  remember, “Les”, actions speak louder than words.  there really is no consolation for complaining your ass off on the web.  no one that does charity work could give a shit

i have to go help some little kids.  au revoir.  (see, the school systems arent that fucked after all.  I know french!)

Sande United States Posted on 05/12/2003 at 07:22 PM

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Yo~~~>Les You are so funny witty and insightful, I truly enjoyed reading your thoughts ROTFLMAO!! Butttt and yes there is always a~~>Butt...I would rather be sitting on a pew next to a hypocrite in Church, than sitting next to them on a rock in HELL....wonder how many images and fence posts and silly christians there are down there anyhoo????

Les United States Posted on 05/13/2003 at 11:44 AM

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Do you know what the best thing about VentricleMan is? He’s like a toy that doesn’t need batteries. Just wind him up and he goes and goes and goes.

 Signature 

All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

ventricleman United States Posted on 05/13/2003 at 04:00 PM

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you all need to get lives.  all of you are contradicting yourselves everytime you say something.  none of you are really alive, you are only robots.  oh well…

Darren United States Posted on 05/16/2003 at 12:50 PM

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I’m new here, so feel free to write hateful responses, etc. I find it amusing. All I ask is that you at least read my post first before patronizing me. And, by the way, I don’t think I have it in me to even bother responding to those who have horrible grammar and or lack of punctuation usage, simply because if whomever reads this is intelligent at all, they should be able to express themselves accordingly. “Typos” are one thing, but using absolutely no punctuation or having awful grammar in general is a clear demonstration of one’s lack of intelligence. And one more thing- if you have not read this book, then there is no sense in responding to this post either. Now that we’re clear on this, here’s my post:

I just read “Abduction to the 9th Planet” ("Thiaoouba Prophecy") by Michel Desmarquet. I was fascinated by the book, but I can’t say I believe Michel was actually abducted as he insists. I’d imagine that most people who actually read this book from start to finish will find it hard to classify it as non-fiction, but regardless if the story is true or not, all the ideas he discussed offered an extremely interesting perspective. Apparently Marquet is offering a one thousand dollar reward for anyone, especially scientists, to prove any single theory in this book as false, as shown on the website. (http://www.thiaoouba.com) To date, none of his theories have been proven false.

I am not a personally a religious person, but I do fully respect those who are. No matter what you believe in though, I still think this is an interesting read and at the very least it will provide a really different perspective on the universe and many of the mysteries on earth. Again, let me emphasize that I am not saying I believe this story is true, but I do find the ideas and theories discussed to be interesting. If this is all just a big joke, it is exceptionally well done and I think Michel Desmarquet should be given credit simply for his effort alone. In the least, he is a very creative writer and extremely thorough. The ideas expresssed seem to intertwine with one another very naturally, with no loopholes that I noticed.

Anyone have anything in particular to discuss about the book? I don’t want to comment on any particular subject matter from the book until I see that there are other individuals who have read it and care to talk about it. I don’t want to waste my time trying to discuss this with people who don’t care!

Thanks for reading my post,
Darren

JethricOne United States Posted on 05/17/2003 at 10:25 AM

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Darren,

I haven’t read the book, but I went to the website, and my initial reaction was that this was another just a new-age spiritualist organization, like the Raelians.

The basis for this is that the first page hit most of the New Age themes...better health through positive thought, “proof” of man’s purpose on the planet as it relates to cosmology, auras and something about planet Earth exploding due to the nuclear reaction going on inside it.

While I don’t necessarily think that everything about these topics are wrong...taken as a whole, though, my reaction is “where to begin” closely followed by “why bother.”

I will address the one about the earth exploding, though, because it’s their big action item.

Will the earth explode? I seriously doubt it, but I wouldn’t bet my soul on it. If it is, there isn’t much we can do about it anyway.

However, the idea that it’s an out-of-control nuclear reaction is just silly. It can’t be a nuclear reaction for two main reasons:
- The materials are wrong for either fission or fusion.
- If it was nuclear, the reaction would make the earth seriously exothermic, which it isn’t.

To have a nuclear fission reaction requires uranium or other fissionable material. The measurements we’ve taken of what exists inside our planet is not sufficiently dense to be uranium. Most likely it’s iron or nickel, with traces of heavy elements thrown in.

As for the possibility of fusion...that just isn’t possible. The amount of mass and energy required to fuse anything other than hydrogen is so massive it requires something the size of a star. And if we WERE doing carbon/iron fusion, we would “soon” be a black hole, probably...not likely for something 1/10000th of the size of our relatively small sun.

And while Jupiter (as I understand it) is actually an exothermic planet, earth is not. No sun, and we cease to exist in a matter of hours.

Anyway, since this is their “big item” and it just doesn’t sit with anything we understand about geology and cosmology...I will chalk it up as representative of most of the rest of their philosophy.

If the earth explodes, I will offer both you and them a heartfelt apology. smile

Darren United States Posted on 05/17/2003 at 01:18 PM

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Thanks for responding to my post. It’s interesting that you bring up the possibility of the earth exploding, because the book also mentions that our moon is going to crash into the earth in approximately 195,000 years. Of course I can’t say I fully believe this, but according to the book it also mentions that the dinosaurs became extinct when one of earth’s moons (apparently we had two moons during the prehistoric time period, or at least this book says so) crashed into the earth, causing a total catastrophe.

I still recommend reading the “Thiaoouba Prophecy” if you get a chance. As I stated before, even if the reader thinks it’s all science fiction, it’s really still quite an interesting read!

Take care,
Darren

Les United States Posted on 05/17/2003 at 09:00 PM

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Well Darren, based on the rules you’ve set forth in your original post I’m afraid I can’t comment too much about it. I have come across the book previously, but failed to make it through the first chapter before falling down in fits of laughter so I’ve not read the whole thing. I don’t know that I would use the word “interesting” to describe the contents of said book. “Amusing” perhaps, but not “interesting.”

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Darren United States Posted on 05/18/2003 at 08:59 PM

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Fair enough, Les. Your honesty is appreciated. Out of curiosity though, do you think there is life on other planets? I definitely think there is, but that doesn’t mean I believe Earth has ever been visited by any aliens. I only think there is life on other planets because the universe is so overwhelmingly large. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t life actually found on Mars a few years ago? When I say life, I am referrring to nothing more than certain types of bacteria and other similar organisms- nothing humanoid. I could very well be wrong, but I vaguely remember hearing about that somewhere.

Les United States Posted on 05/18/2003 at 11:30 PM

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My views about life on other planets is pretty much the same as yours. With what little study I’ve done of cosmology, biology and the theory of probabilities I find it very difficult not to believe that life is a very abundant thing in the universe. As each day goes by we’re discovering life existing in the most extreme of environments right here on Earth in places we once thought could not support it. Not only existing, but thriving.

Given the ridiculously mind-boggling number of stars in our own galaxy combined with the ridiculously mind-boggling number of galaxies in the known universe, the probability of life existing elsewhere, even complex life forms capable of sentience, is much higher than you might at first think.

But, like you, I seriously doubt they’ve stopped by the Earth anytime recently. I don’t rule it out, but I find it very unlikely given what we currently know about physics and the lack of credible evidence to the contrary.

As for the life on Mars thing that occurred a couple of years ago, as far as I’m aware they’ve never conclusively determined one way or the other if what they found were truly fossilized remains of simple organisms or not. I think the jury’s still out on that one, but I haven’t checked into it lately.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Darren United States Posted on 05/18/2003 at 11:44 PM

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I think we’re on the same page here. Now, I know this is totally off topic for this particular forum, but what is your take Ouija Boards? I used to pass Ouija Boards off as just total BS, but then I tried using one several years ago just to test my skepticism and see what would happen. Well, surprisingly enough, I had several “psychic” experiences, for lack of a better descriptive word. I won’t go into detail as to what happened exactly, but my point is simply that I now believe there is something to them. No, I don’t think the boards themselves are anything special, but I do think that at least they can be a tool to help one (or two) to get in touch with their subconscious minds. And to clarify, I still remain a bit skeptical about them, but I have had a few direct experiences as I mentioned that have given me a different perspective on them as tools.

Sorry for this odd and off topic discussion. I’ll admit, I’m a bit bored, stuck in Fredonia NY with nowhere to go for two weeks. Thanks for humoring me. grin

Darren

ventricleman United States Posted on 05/26/2003 at 08:48 PM

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If matter and energy cannot be created, how were they created?
Where did the entire physical universe come from?

can you answer these questions “Les”?  id be very glad to see your response

Les United States Posted on 05/26/2003 at 11:19 PM

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And here I was thinking we’d seen the last of you. Still, a reasonable question though you won’t like the answer.

If matter and energy cannot be created, how were they created? Where did the entire physical universe come from?

The theory you are questioning states that matter and energy are just two different forms of the same thing. The energy itself wasn’t created as it has always existed. Energy cannot be destroyed, it can only change form. Energy can be converted into matter and vice-versa. The “entire physical universe” came from a singularity composed of that purest form of energy. One variant of this theory states that the universe is cyclical and will fall in upon itself at some point in the future to once again become a singularity of pure energy. Perhaps to be reborn in a new universe.

Note: This isn’t necessarily the theory I currently accept as the most likely. It’s simply one possible explanation for the origins of the universe.

can you answer these questions “Les”?

Why are you putting my name in quotes? Is that suppose to mean something? I can answer the question in as far as I can explain to you some of the theories that have been developed over the years. Can I give answers based on first-hand knowledge? Obviously not. Once again you should consider the fact that I am not particularly concerned with how the universe came to be. It is, at best, a matter of trivia that would be neat to know, but doesn’t impact my life either way.

id be very glad to see your response

Well, there you go.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

ventricleman United States Posted on 05/27/2003 at 04:20 PM

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I am somewhat disappointed at your response.  pretty much all you did was give what im looking for another name.  lets dive into my question, to see what i am REALLY asking.  by your response, i believe that the you are talking about the big bang.

If matter and energy cannot be created

i believe that we both agree that matter and energy (which are pretty much what runs this universe of ours) cannot be created.  but, us being here are “living” proof that this matter and energy WERE created.  now, you can say to me that we are really in a dream of some sort and what we see isnt really “there” so to speak, but thats just giving another name to the answer i want, and taking the argument to the next level.  (what i would say would be “where did the dream come from?” or “what are we REALLY seeing?”

, how were they created?

you have gone back to the big bang several times during our...vibrant posts, and i have to say that i think its a load of crap.  where did the big bang come from? 

Where did the entire physical universe come from?

obviously, the big bang had to start SOMEWHERE.  where did this “cycle” begin?  where will it end?  where will the cycle stop?  the big bang theory is an attempt to disprove infinity, since it pretty much states that at some point, a universe “decides” or “has” to move back to its orginal point of “explosion”.

Note: This isn’t necessarily the theory I currently accept as the most likely. It’s simply one possible explanation for the origins of the universe.

well then “Les”, why dont we hear about what YOU think, instead of what some theory thinks?  could you put some of your thoughts in your next post instead of someone elses who you obviously disprove?

-ventricleman

Les United States Posted on 05/27/2003 at 05:12 PM

Les pic

I am somewhat disappointed at your response.

Big surprise. I predicted as much. Hey, maybe that means I’m really a psychic! I should start my own 1-800-MONEY-4-ME psychic service.

pretty much all you did was give what im looking for another name.

No, what I did was try to answer your questions as presented. It seems you’re once again finding it difficult to state what you really mean so I have no recourse but take your questions at face value. Based on your questions I gave the best answers I could. Not my fault if you don’t understand the answers.

lets dive into my question, to see what i am REALLY asking. by your response, i believe that the you are talking about the big bang.

By your questions I was working under the assumption that you were as well. If not, then in what context did you intend your questions to be taken?

i believe that we both agree that matter and energy (which are pretty much what runs this universe of ours) cannot be created.

Depends on what you mean by “created.” We’ve established that you have a habit of making up your own definitions for words that you then expect everyone else to understand so perhaps this is another example of you using a definition the rest of us aren’t privy to.

but, us being here are “living” proof that this matter and energy WERE created.

Not if that matter and/or energy has always existed. If both are just two sides to the same coin and energy cannot be destroyed then this would suggest that the energy involved has always existed.

Seeing as the laws of mathematics break down once you trace the origin of the universe back to the point where it’s a singularity it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to predict whether or not the energy existed prior to the formation of the universe. It’s entirely possible that the energy that composes all things has always existed as a singularity. It’s also entirely possible that it didn’t exist at all before the moment of the creation of the cosmos. We have no way of telling using that particular theory which is part of why many scientists are moving away from it.

The point remains that our existence doesn’t prove that the energy that went into the matter that makes us possible had to be “created” at some point in the past.

now, you can say to me that we are really in a dream of some sort and what we see isnt really “there” so to speak, but thats just giving another name to the answer i want, and taking the argument to the next level. (what i would say would be “where did the dream come from?” or “what are we REALLY seeing?”

I’m not one for buying into the idea that all of reality is just a feverish dream of some other entity some place else. That’s a pointless debate in my opinion.

you have gone back to the big bang several times during our…vibrant posts, and i have to say that i think its a load of crap. where did the big bang come from?

I have gone back to the Big Bang several times because you keep bringing it up. I have also explained where the Big Bang comes from based on that particular theory. Again, I can’t help it if it’s beyond your comprehension.

obviously, the big bang had to start SOMEWHERE.

If we assume that the theory is correct, and again I should point out that there are several competing theories, then you’d be correct that the Big Bang had to start at some point in time.

where did this “cycle” begin?

Depending on whom you ask it started around 15 billion years ago. Give or take a few billion years.

where will it end?

Depends on whether you accept the idea that the universe will collapse into a Big Crunch (largely disfavored these days) or will just keep expanding until all the stars burn out and most of the universe collapses into black holes. The latter theory states that even the black holes will eventually disintegrate into stray particles in approximately 1 trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years from now. I suppose you could call that an “end” even though the universe, as we know it, would have ceased being able to support life for eons prior to that.

where will the cycle stop?

Again, depends on which theory you’re talking about. In the Big Crunch theory the cycle doesn’t ever stop. It just keeps blowing up and crunching back down over and over again. In the ever-expanding theory it stops when there’s nothing left but a gray void.

the big bang theory is an attempt to disprove infinity, since it pretty much states that at some point, a universe “decides” or “has” to move back to its orginal point of “explosion”.

No, the Big Bang theory is an attempt to explain the origins of the universe. There are variations that allow for either a finite or an infinite universe to result. You seem to keep forgetting that “infinity” is a mathematical concept that may or may not have any bearing on reality.

The Big Bang theory in itself doesn’t state that the universe has to fall back onto itself in a Big Crunch. That’s just one possibility.

well then “Les”,

Again I’ll ask: What’s up with the quotes?

why dont we hear about what YOU think, instead of what some theory thinks? could you put some of your thoughts in your next post instead of someone elses who you obviously disprove?

Sure thing, Testicleman. Here then are my thoughts on the Origin of the Universe:

I don’t care.

That’s probably too succinct for you to handle so allow me to elaborate: I don’t care how the universe started. I don’t care how it’ll end. I don’t care if it has always existed or if it’s cyclical in nature or if it’s the result of a cosmic sneeze by a giant inter-dimensional flea. I have no idea how it came to be and I really don’t care. It doesn’t matter. It has no impact on my life. It won’t change how I put on my pants in the morning or what I eat for breakfast. It won’t alter which brand of gasoline I put in my car or whether or not I listen to a particular style of music. As anything other than a fascinating bit of trivia knowing one way or the other will have no real impact in my day-to-day living so I have no real reason to give a shit.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.

 Signature 

All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

ventricleman United States Posted on 05/27/2003 at 06:27 PM

ventricleman pic

Testicleman---oh look mommy, the asshole made a funny!  haha!  do you even know what ventricles are?  obvioulsy not, since you and your lovely friends keep getting it wrong.  oh well, i doubt that you care, even though they are keeping you alive.  well, when your 50 or so and all the shit you have been eating all your life finally takes its toll, youll know about ventricles.  heart disease is a RICH death, remember?  you should be proud of your disease, its literally a feather in your hat.  just think of how many people you had to kill to get heart disease.  i wont go into that today (and im sure that you will get mad at this comment..i try) i have finals that i need to study for.  im sure you had your chance at them, and probably failed, since your a 20 or 30 or 40 something american LOSER sitting in front of your computer playing computer games all day long.  im sure youll say that you have a wife and whatnot, but that doesnt matter.  judging by your activities (i have found that your website is a rather large complaint station for american losers like yourself (not including me, for i still have a life to live.  your already halfway dead)) i doubt that you really do much.

well, as i said, anatomy is calling me, and i must go.  (im sure you can find some dirty crack to make at that.  remember, its in your blood.  your SUPPOSED to make fun of people like me, not help poor kids or have a life)

au revoir

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