Chris “Hi, I’m Chris and like, I’m going to talk to everybody and stuff about God....Is this a blog? OMG I love these. Do I talk into a microphone? Is this on? Test....testing...test. LOL
Anyway I’ve been learning stuff like, u no, stuff, and I heard there are places that the devil would/ will be...u no, like places where u think he won’t be...like for instance 1) tempting
people 2) trying to tempt people 3) trying to tempt people in church. OMG, can u believe that he...wait, that’s only one place- church. I’d better stay away from church. LCYBI, I mean, who would?
But, he probably won’t b at raves and cult practicing places, u know, like those places are safe to go to. LOL, that’s such a relief! U just don’t no!  I mean, like that is so rad and totally scarfable!
I haven’t met the Devil yet, but if I do u better believe I’ll turn on the old ignore blinkers. He won’t get a response out of ur’s truly. LOL, I mean what’s up with that? Did I ask him to talk to me. I don’t think so!
Now, God, I like talking to Him. He’s so cool. He’s the President of Shopper’s Drug Mart. Did you know that? I know, is that cool or what? He’s my friend and I can get all the free drugs I want. Woo hoo! He’s like soooo important and He’s the top guy.
I read about Him all the time. I like 2 read. Reading is fun. I love 2 read...except I don’t like the big words, and stuff. I mean, like, life’s too short to waste time on big words, like pu- pu- purile and f- f- fri- fri-vo-lous. At first I thought pu- purile was a good word u know like “pure” and stuff, like me, but someone looked it up for me and it means im- imma- ma- im-mature and ni- ni-niave. So, take it from me and avoid the big words. They’ll fool ya. And how! OMG and stuff. Hehehe ROTFLOL!
BRB, I gotta spit out this gum. It’s not sweet anymore. BRB, I mean, really, I will! hehehe.

So, I’m back. Did’ja miss me? I’m so sure and stuff. Anyway, I was talking about God b4. He’s the PRESIDENT! Di’ja no that? He’s like sooooo much more powerful than the Devil. Did u know that? But u have to be careful not to un- und- underes- underestimate the Devil. That’s why so many people don’t know God. Because the devil is like soooo powerful, too. But he’s not the president. He’s like an employee or an assistant manager or something. As a customer, u want to be sure not to buy anything from him. He’ll hurt u...he will.
So, believe me, I am learning soooo much and if u don’t believe me, we can talk. I mean like ga! That would be sooo cool. I like to talk to people. So let me know what u think about what I said and let’s talk, o-kay? O, like wow! That’s going to b so cool. For sure! So TTFN and SYL and stuff. XOXOXXO, Chris, for sure!
O BTW, I gave my real e-mail address so like write me and stuff. We can talk! About God and stuff. OMGYJDK. Really, and IGWT and JLMTIK and stuff. BYYYYEEE. Love u and God loves u, for sure.” Chris

(Forgive me, I’m just having fun. No permanent harm intended. I just couldn’t resist.)

Hey Everyone!

Alright Brandi....I never stated that I was strong enough to overcome the devil...I am not stronger than the devil, I never said I was..but God IS!

Les.....you said
“There were lots of opportunities along the way, though, for God to shine his grace on me and help me to overcome any influence Satan may have had.”
But God never left you...Remember Abraham & Sarah....they waited a hundred years till they finally had a child, they prayed every day & night, God was there ALL ALONG...it might have been a test, a measure of faith...we don’t know...He has ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS be there…

Hey Brock...my favourite gal! (I really appreciate you wanting to role play after ME, what an honor...but sadly....you didn’t fair too well....sorry)
Do I really sound like such a fruitcake? Oh well, my bad…
Well, yes....I can see you’ve summarized up my main points for what I previously wrote...nice to know that I have such a studious follower!
Just two little nit-picky things....I’m sorry
1) It’s spelt puerile not “purile”
2) It’s spelt naive not “niave”
Oh...I’m sorry...you were role playing as ME ...aka...the IDIOT...forgive me....

P.S. (No harm intended Brock, just playing, but still nice to know that people enjoy copying me)

Anyways, Have a great week EVERYONE!!!

IGWT,

Chris

Brock, you’re killing me man! I was almost on the floor on that one.

But God never left you… Remember Abraham & Sarah… they waited a hundred years till they finally had a child, they prayed every day & night, God was there ALL ALONG...it might have been a test, a measure of faith… we don�t know… He has ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS be there…

Well that’s great and all, but I’m not going to live to be 100 years old. How long am I supposed to wait before he decides to intervene? The process I spoke of took place over a half-decade. Perhaps I’m impatient, but it’s not like I woke up one day and said “Gee, I think I’ll be an atheist now.”

I had plenty of faith until I started studying the Bible seriously. Perhaps I should’ve just remained ignorant and I wouldn’t have lost my faith, but that goes against my nature.

Not trying to kill you Les. I just didn’t know if I could make you laugh in a good way. I thought it might be worth a try.(insert smiley face god icon here)

Hey everyone!

Well Les, you never know how long you will live, a lot of people are nowadays living beyond their hundred.
Romans 11:33-34 “...How deep are His wisdom and knowledge! Who can explain His decisions? Who can understand His ways? As the Scripture says, ‘Who knows the mind of the Lord? Who is able to give Him advice? Who has ever given him anything, so he had to pay it back?’”

No one knows the mind of God, so no one knows His decisions and His answers, or when they come into act. So,"patience is a virtue” .....

I’m sorry that you lost your fervor for the Bible and Christianity .... if I can help in any way please ask....

You know how you said that when you started started losing your faith, you looked more into the Baptist church. And when that didn’t work out, you started looking into other sects. Which sects were they, may I ask?

And was there a specific part in the Bible that ‘turned you off’ from it? If so, what was it?

Thanks!

Anyways, I hope everyone a great weekend!

IGWT,

Chris

P.S. When you want to copy someone’s exact quote, how do you get that blue box around their words? Can you tell me please?
Thanks again.

I�m sorry that you lost your fervor for the Bible and Christianity… if I can help in any way please ask…

This presumes that I want help. That I am in some way unhappy about my loss of faith. On the contrary, my life has improved greatly since I gave up belief in superstitions and myth and I’m probably happier than I have ever been.

You know how you said that when you started started losing your faith, you looked more into the Baptist church. And when that didn�t work out, you started looking into other sects. Which sects were they, may I ask?

The usual suspects: Presbyterian, Catholic, Methodist, etc. Some of them I attended churches for awhile to see and eventually I just started studying up on their core tenants without bothering to check out the churches (groups like the Jehovah Witnesses for example).

And was there a specific part in the Bible that �turned you off� from it? If so, what was it?

No one specific part, but the work as a whole bothered me. Certainly there are parts of the Bible that I find abhorrent, quite a bit of the Old Testament for starters, but there isn’t a single section I can point to and say “that’s why I don’t believe in Christianity any longer!”

Remember Abraham & Sarah� they waited a hundred years till they finally had a child, they prayed every day & night, God was there ALL ALONG

...you never know how long you will live, a lot of people are nowadays living beyond their hundred.

There ARE people living past 100, but I would say this is a relatively new thing, and can be attributed to modern science and health knowledge. But even of women living past 100, I’d say menopause is no more than a distant memory.

Are you saying you believe Sarah not only lived beyond 100, but was fertile and successful in bearing a child in her borrowed-time years? And you can report this in a matter-of-fact way as if this is nothing to be scoffed at?

I’m suppose you’ll tell me it’s a spayshul meerkul and that why it’s true, or biblical time was measured differently, or something like that. I’m curious if you have any plausible explaination for believing this silliness.

Hey everyone,

Hey Les...I’m sorry that you don’t care about God anymore, or the Bible, or the whole fact of Christianity…
...Your right in the fact that it’s your own choice...I’ve talked (somewhat) and if you don’t care then just say the words and I’ll let it go....I just pray that God will reveal Himself to you so that you may be a witness to the truth…
...alright?

K...Brandi
We are talking long time ago, back in those days people lived a LONG time....the longest time back then was about 800 & something years.
Back then the world was beautiful! There was no pollution it was all spacious and fresh. The fruits were beautiful and grew naturally and large. The cattle was healthy, large, and strong...and could graze on every centimeter of grass covered earth. The ozone layer was stong and intact. The world was perfect, the weather was beautiful, the sky was bright, nothing blocked the stars out at night. There was no genetic modifications watsoever, everything was natural, and labour was manual. Food was the most amazing thing ever tasted! There was nothing called chips, fries, burgers, and such. That means no modifications, no preservatives, no chemicals, no excess hormones. Everything was perfect, intact, and new.
So people were healthy, and lived LONG. And yes the much anticipated words....it WAS indeed a miracle!!!
Abraham & Sarah earnestly prayed day and night for a child to call their own, for many many years…
So, one day two angels of the Lord came with a message. They told Abraham that his wife will have a child (in 9 months) and, Sarah hears this and laughs. They hear her and ask why she is laughing...She said that she stopped having her monthly periods and she was too old, as well as Abraham. One of the angels responded, “Is anything too hard for the Lord? As I said, nine months from now I will return, and Sarah will have a son.” (Genesis 18:10-15)

Nothing is impossible with God! And that is just a quick, brief explanation.

Have a great week,

IGWT,

Chris

Judges 1:19: “So the Lord was with Judah. And they drove out the mountaineers, but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the lowland, because they had chariots of iron.”

Sorry Chris, it seems that iron is kriptonite to your God.

We are talking long time ago, back in those days people lived a LONG time�.the longest time back then was about 800 & something years.
Back then the world was beautiful! There was no pollution it was all spacious and fresh. The fruits were beautiful and grew naturally and large. The cattle was healthy, large, and strong�and could graze on every centimeter of grass covered earth. The ozone layer was stong and intact. The world was perfect, the weather was beautiful, the sky was bright, nothing blocked the stars out at night. There was no genetic modifications watsoever, everything was natural, and labour was manual. Food was the most amazing thing ever tasted! There was nothing called chips, fries, burgers, and such. That means no modifications, no preservatives, no chemicals, no excess hormones. Everything was perfect, intact, and new.

That is what happens when you try to get your history lessons from the bible. Lifespans were shorter, not longer. The lack of pollution isn’t of much benefit when you don’t know about the most basic sanitation methods (the street was generally your toilet), and you didn’t understand that food was perishable (they didn’t have refrigeration, but they kept the leftovers for days).

Hey Les...I�m sorry that you don’t care about God anymore, or the Bible, or the whole fact of Christianity…

Why are you sorry? I don’t feel like I’ve lost a thing. I find it hard to care about something I don’t believe in, be that God or the Bible. As for “the whole fact of Christianity,” I’m not sure what you’re saying there. Are you claiming that Christianity is “in fact” true?

�Your right in the fact that it�s your own choice�I�ve talked (somewhat) and if you don�t care then just say the words and I�ll let it go�.I just pray that God will reveal Himself to you so that you may be a witness to the truth�
�alright?

God had plenty of time to reveal himself to me back when I was a believer. If you feel your prayers will make a difference then go ahead and pray, but you’re joining a long line of unsuccessful people who have been praying for me for years. Perhaps that’s because there’s nothing to pray to.

K�Brandi
We are talking long time ago, back in those days people lived a LONG time… the longest time back then was about 800 & something years.

You really have no issue with the idea of someone living to be 800 years old? This is the sort of thing that makes me think believers are living in a fantasy world.

You’re right Chris. Everything was natural, labor was manual. And they worked their tired bodies in the grave at an average age of about 40 years old.

We haven’t been industrialized long enough for the lack of ozone, genetic modifications in food, and the overall ecosystem to be attributed to our current lifespans, or support assinine lifespans prior to it. If what you’re saying is true, these ridiculously long lifespans could have been seen just a few hundred years ago, where things just weren’t all that different from biblical times.

History tells us that people started living longer when our lives became more luxurious. Peasants and farmers by contrast, died much younger. Yes, we have some environmental problems in the modern world. Most of which can be attributed to there just being to damn many people here now. People have gone forth and been overly fruitful, often because the bible says so.

I can’t believe you’re trying to tell us that people could live to 800, or have children at 90, because biblical characters lived in some tree-hugging granola nirvana.

Les, I’m getting the impression some pastor/preacher/etc/ has put a price on your head. Apparently your conversion to Xtianity is worth more god-points that the average mortal.

Conversion/witnessing values:
“You will be rewarded with the following god-points for getting these people in church declaring their devotion to Christ”
Third-world inhabitants - 1 point (they’re easy)
Highschool dropouts with drug problems - 1 point (also easy)
Girls with low self-esteem - 2 points
Mysogynist men with anger issues - 2 points
College graduates - 5 points
College graduates that used to be christians - 10 points
Anyone with an IQ higher than 120 - 20 points
Evolutionist, astrophysicists, etc. - 25 points
Les - 50 points

Don’t you feel special?

Only 50 points? I’d have thought it was much higher by now. Guess I should work harder at it.

As I was hanging out next to ‘Elmo’, my dedicious friend in the backyard, enjoying some Trail Mix and listening to a horrible remix of Lithium I downloaded on WinMX. I found my beastly education encroaching on reality again ... so I had to go with it:

Pareidolia - Random stimuli, such as the shapes of clouds or rust on an old car, sometimes seem to take on meaningful forms. These images are known as pareidolia. Few adults believe that the perceived shapes are actually there - rather, the meaning is imposed on the stimulus by the mind, which seeks constantly to organize sensory imput into an experience of a coherent world. Once a pareidolic interpretation is made, it tends to persist; thus, once one notices that a blood stain resembles an accusing hand, it will prove diffult to see the stain as anything else.

From: Alternative Realities by Leonard George, Ph.D. Expand your mind - read something other than the Bible.

If God wanted me to be a Xtian why in Gehenna did He create science and rational thought? This is the basic experience that divination and omen-interpretation is based upon.

Oh yeah, and: ‘tree-hugging granola nirvana’ ... HAW!

“Only 50 points?”.

Sorry, Les. It might be higher. I’m only guessing. I’m not exactly on the mailing list.

Hey everyone,

Sheriff Jay, thanks for proving that point in Judges 1:19, because that verse works in my favor. How? Well it proves that God does not always say ‘yes’...He is not entitled to.
I can’t say, “God, I love you, I’m such a great Christian and You are always there for me, so please, send me a check for 1 million dollars in the mail. Thanks”
Sorry, it doesn’t work that way or life would be too simple, and trouble-free.
Then there would be no thoughts of anything else, such as an after-life...and many things such as religion and what-not would be pointless..
Heaven on earth is not our reality, it is far from it.

Hey Valhalla,
We are talking in the very beginning, awhile after the earth was created. The world was new! There were only a couple hundred (if not less)people living in the world at that time...The WHOLE earth was for a couple hundred of people...at that time.
Lifespans were longer, we are not talking about starving ‘devloping countries’ who canmnot find food in their poverty-stricken, over-populated, unsanitary cities. We are talking spacious earth, numerous trees with beautiful, unharmed, non-pesticide-filled fruits, and numerous animals at your disposal. Life was longer, not shorter....and sanitation was FAR from being an issue even thought of.

Hey Les....(please show me how to copy exact quotes in one of those boxes...thanks)

You said,
“God had plenty of time to reveal himself to me back when I was a believer. “
But no one knows the mind of the Lord. In a sense through these many Christains that talk on your site (i.e. in the Kent Hovind argument), could He not be revealing Himself to you...by them?
Don’t tell me that you have not thought/contemplated, on any of the words any Christian has said in any of your arguments....common Les....
Also you don’t know what your future may hold. You still might have time for Him to reveal Himself to you? Who knows what your future may hold? ...just a thought…

Hey Brandi....
Alright, remember my precious words of Abraham and Sarah...."It was a miracle”...that explaines the birth at 90.....
And as I said to Valahalla (please read for more info)....I’m not talking coulple of hundred of years ago, I’m talking billions of years ago, where few people inhabited the earth.
And I said at the most, ‘some’ people lived up to 800 and something years. But that all ended, later on when people were sinning and doing horrible things in their many years of living, so their life spans were shortened.

And Brandi...I don’t talk about my religion to gain ‘god-points’...it’s far from it. If I did that, I would be dishonest and a hypocrite, more-so to my own religion and to God. I don’t do it to prove than I’m some big shot Christian, that likes to convert people so they can boast. Im not cheap like that, and I definately do NOT brown-nose.
I talk to inform people of the truth of God and Jesus Christ. How Christ was sent to earth to die for our sins, so we could have a second change at an eternity in paradise.
I talk, and people listen (at will). If they don’t like it, they ignore me, if they’re interested, they ask questions. I talk to show people about this wonderful truth...yes ...this is the TRUTH! Jesus Christ is the LIVING TRUTH...for you and for me and for everyone else. He is there for those who ask of Him, those who wish to believe...I’m enforcing nothing, I talk, you listen, and opinionate you own thoughts.

Hey BCS,
You said,
“If God wanted me to be a Xtian why in Gehenna did He create science and rational thought? This is the basic experience that divination and omen-interpretation is based upon.”
Well, humans were created, and placed in paradise, but they wanted more. Through temptation of the devil and stupidity of themselves, they realised they wanted to be like God, with the knowledge of knowing right and wrong, being intelligent, and making their own decisions.....and so they sinned…
...God gave them their free choice, humans have ‘free will’. A mind to make their own choices on right and wrong. To do what they think, or in some cases what pleases them.
Humans in their thrive to know things, were not satisfied with their small intellect...they didn’t want to know some things, they wanted to know ALL things, in a sense they wanted to be gods. (Similar story with Lucifer and God...if you don’t know it ask, and I will explain )
So science and rational thought came along, from us...Humans are limited, but they thrive to extend that unextenable limit...when they don’t have the answers, the infer/deduct/assume things that they think are most ‘plausible’ to have happened...(i.e. how the earth was formed by gaseous balls colliding, and such)

Well, if you guys have any more questions...ask away...I’m here

Have a great week,

IGWT,

Chris

:D

But no one knows the mind of the Lord. In a sense through these many Christains that talk on your site (i.e. in the Kent Hovind argument), could He not be revealing Himself to you�by them?

Perhaps, but if he is then he’s doing a really piss-poor job of it.

Don�t tell me that you have not thought/contemplated, on any of the words any Christian has said in any of your arguments�.common Les�.

Of course I have. There’s no point in having a conversation if you’re just going to ignore the person you’re talking to. I think about life’s great questions often regardless of whether I’m talking with a Christian, or anyone else at the time.

Has that contemplation revealed God to me in any way, shape or form? Not that I can tell. He needs better representatives than what’s been by this site recently.

Also you don�t know what your future may hold. You still might have time for Him to reveal Himself to you? Who knows what your future may hold? �just a thought�

Again, perhaps, but you’ll pardon me if I don’t sit around holding my breath waiting for it to happen. If you had spent any time reading this site you’ll already know that I’ve admitted that it’s possible I could go back to being a believer given good reason to believe as I once was a believer and changed to become an atheist. I’m not so arrogant as to rule out the chances that I could change again.

But I’m not expecting it nor am I particularly worried about it happening.

And Brandi�I don�t talk about my religion to gain �god-points��it�s far from it. If I did that, I would be dishonest and a hypocrite, more-so to my own religion and to God. I don�t do it to prove than I�m some big shot Christian, that likes to convert people so they can boast. Im not cheap like that, and I definately do NOT brown-nose.
I talk to inform people of the truth of God and Jesus Christ. How Christ was sent to earth to die for our sins, so we could have a second change at an eternity in paradise.
I talk, and people listen (at will). If they don�t like it, they ignore me, if they�re interested, they ask questions. I talk to show people about this wonderful truth�yes �this is the TRUTH! Jesus Christ is the LIVING TRUTH�for you and for me and for everyone else. He is there for those who ask of Him, those who wish to believe�I�m enforcing nothing, I talk, you listen, and opinionate you own thoughts.

Perhaps it is truth in your opinion, but it’s hardly an established fact. If it were we’d likely not be having this conversation at all. Your insisting it’s the truth does not make it so anymore than my insistence that God doesn’t exist makes that so.

I’m still incredulous that you believe people used to live to be 800 years old. Nowhere outside of the Bible is there any evidence to back that up yet you swallow it whole without question or concern.

Hey BCS,
You said,
�If God wanted me to be a Xtian why in Gehenna did He create science and rational thought? This is the basic experience that divination and omen-interpretation is based upon.�
Well, humans were created, and placed in paradise, but they wanted more. Through temptation of the devil and stupidity of themselves, they realised they wanted to be like God, with the knowledge of knowing right and wrong, being intelligent, and making their own decisions�..and so they sinned�
�God gave them their free choice, humans have �free will�. A mind to make their own choices on right and wrong. To do what they think, or in some cases what pleases them.
Humans in their thrive to know things, were not satisfied with their small intellect�they didn�t want to know some things, they wanted to know ALL things, in a sense they wanted to be gods. (Similar story with Lucifer and God�if you don�t know it ask, and I will explain )
So science and rational thought came along, from us�Humans are limited, but they thrive to extend that unextenable limit�when they don�t have the answers, the infer/deduct/assume things that they think are most �plausible� to have happened�(i.e. how the earth was formed by gaseous balls colliding, and such)

Here’s the thing about this explanation that just doesn’t hold up under logic: If man was perfect at the beginning then how is it possible for the Devil to tempt him? If at the beginning man was in paradise and had everything he could want then how could he want more? The whole statement above implies that man was flawed from the beginning in which case it would have been an intentional design decision from God and it’s hard to see how you can blame a flawed creation for acting in a flawed manner. If man didn’t have knowledge of right from wrong at the beginning then how would he have known that he was sinning? If man wasn’t intelligent then how can he be blamed for doing something stupid? If man wasn’t able to make his own decisions before sinning, then how was he able to decide to sin?

You spout this malarkey like it all makes sense, but it doesn’t when you look closely at it. You basically described Adam as an idiot in paradise who was too dumb to know that what he was about to do was wrong and flawed from the get go that he would desire to have knowledge that God didn’t want him to have. And yet despite all these strikes against him doing the right thing in the first place, you fully blame him for the mistakes he makes and think God is justified in his anger and his punishment.

That’s some seriously fucked up thinking if you ask me.

This is one of the big problems I have with Christianity. The constant harping that “knowledge” is a bad thing. The Bible consistently refers to believers as “sheep.” Sheep are some of the dumbest animals on the planet and yet that’s what God wants you to be like. Christians like to argue that God gave us free will because he didn’t want a bunch of automatons loving him by default and yet the Bible advocates that that’s exactly what we should act like is a bunch of mindless sheep.

Has it ever occurred to you that the Bible is hostile toward knowledge because as people understand more about the world around them they’re less likely to buy into the fantasy and myth the Bible puts forth as truth?

Hey Brandi

what about Jews? They must be worth something,
er, like maybe 20 points if they’re nontheistic and 40 if they are.

Well, they are kinda to be all converted (well a good number anyway, the rest get to die) before the Second Coming. Prophesies and all that.

Admittedly, a lot do seem to try to convince Les about the Good News.

Feel special, Les? I once jokingly told a representative of His People (a branch of Reborns - I don’t know if you Yankees get get them on your side of the Atlantic) that I’d already seen Jesus (he was one of those sneaky fellows that come up to you innocously and asks about your cultural background, nods, pretends to care and then undermines the sharing of cultures by trying to persuade you that the way you’ve been raised by your family and parents is wrong and will earn you a place in Hell [in a nice way of course).
yeah so I BSed about how I’d seen Jesus and he told me to ignore anyone pretending to represent him. The guy went ah ha, but be careful of Demons pretending to represent the Lord. Right. So how do they know they’re not being suckered by a demon who can release the endorphines and make them feel the luuurve of the Lord? they frigging don’t so anyone of you lame-ass preacher types wanna preach your religious, go preach to the converted. They’re the only ones who’ll listen. Or someone facing a major emotional shock of one kind or another. yeah, look at Brandi’s list, try the one-pointers, they’re easy. 

Oops. Quite a rant.

Chris, stop preaching. Proselytizing is so goddamn weak.

Yeah Antman, sorry. I forgot Jews. I was just taking a wild stab. Like I said, it’s not like I’m on the official Jesus Humpers mailing list.

And I agree, Chris needs to start a bit smaller. She’s gotten pretty far out of her league. I’m not saying there’s no one out there who could present a fine argument to me, or Les, or some others here (honestly, I’d welcome it)...but it’s not going to be that tired old fairy tale bullshit.

Sheriff Jay, thanks for proving that point in Judges 1:19, because that verse works in my favor. How? Well it proves that God does not always say �yes��He is not entitled to.
I can�t say, �God, I love you, I�m such a great Christian and You are always there for me, so please, send me a check for 1 million dollars in the mail. Thanks�
Sorry, it doesn�t work that way or life would be too simple, and trouble-free.
Then there would be no thoughts of anything else, such as an after-life�and many things such as religion and what-not would be pointless..
Heaven on earth is not our reality, it is far from it.

That may be true (our reality is not heaven on earth), but Judges does nothing to further your argument. That snippet really says very little at all, other than somebody had an enemy, and was bested in battle because someone else was stronger. It has nothing to do with the divine at all. That�s like saying someone won or lost the Superbowl because of God�s will. God doesn�t give a shit. People win or lose because someone is smarter/faster/stronger. End of story. You can wrap the fairness of it up in fairytale all day long, but it doesn�t change the truth.

Hey Valhalla,
We are talking in the very beginning, awhile after the earth was created. The world was new! There were only a couple hundred (if not less)people living in the world at that time�The WHOLE earth was for a couple hundred of people�at that time.
Lifespans were longer, we are not talking about starving �devloping countries� who canmnot find food in their poverty-stricken, over-populated, unsanitary cities. We are talking spacious earth, numerous trees with beautiful, unharmed, non-pesticide-filled fruits, and numerous animals at your disposal. Life was longer, not shorter�.and sanitation was FAR from being an issue even thought of.

Ridiculous. The environmental factors you are touting DID exist just a few hundred years ago, for many civilizations. American Indians, tribes in Africa, all sorts of settlements all over the planet. They weren�t overpopulated, they had no knowledge of the outside world, and had more land and resources than they could ever cover or exploit. Everything you�re touting was right there. Nobody lived that long. Lifespans were shorter. Sorry.
Speaking of no knowledge of the outside world�guess what they did? They made up STORIES, loosely based in some abstract fact and wildly embellished over the years, to answer questions they couldn�t answer, and to keep the members in line for the good of the whole. They invented gods and rules by which to live. Sound familiar?

In a sense through these many Christains that talk on your site (i.e. in the Kent Hovind argument), could He not be revealing Himself to you�by them?
Don�t tell me that you have not thought/contemplated, on any of the words any Christian has said in any of your arguments�.

If that is how He chooses to reveal himself, he really needs to get a new sales staff. I haven�t seen anything on this site contributed by a Christian, not one thing, that was the least bit compelling. Although again I admit, I would love to. I�ve seen nothing to make me contemplate anything new, anything I haven�t heard or thought of before in the realm of Christianity or any other revealed religion.

Hey Brandi�.
Alright, remember my precious words of Abraham and Sarah�.�It was a miracle��that explaines the birth at 90�..
And as I said to Valahalla (please read for more info)�.I�m not talking coulple of hundred of years ago, I�m talking billions of years ago, where few people inhabited the earth.
And I said at the most, �some� people lived up to 800 and something years. But that all ended, later on when people were sinning and doing horrible things in their many years of living, so their life spans were shortened.

Billions? Are you a creationist or an evolutionist? Now I�m confused. If you say billions, that suggests you don�t take the creation story literally, but you take all the other stuff literally? Nobody lived that long. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest it, other than in the bible, which holds no scientific weight whatsoever.

And Brandi�I don�t talk about my religion to gain �god-points�� I talk to inform people of the truth of God and Jesus Christ. How Christ was sent to earth to die for our sins, so we could have a second change at an eternity in paradise.
I talk, and people listen (at will). If they don�t like it, they ignore me, if they�re interested, they ask questions.

You seem to have set yourself up as some kind of authority. They �ask questions�? Who does? You are wholly unprepared to do anything other than regurgitate some loose second-hand rhetoric. And often that works, but not on people who have given much thought to it. If that�s your tactic, you�re going to have to go after some smaller prey, find some weaker personalities (see the 1 or 2-pointers on the list). Or develop some better arguments. Nothing you�ve said thus far holds any water. You keep operating under the false (yet common) assumption that the Bible is seen as a document of authority by just about everyone. Using Biblical arguments will get you nowhere. Just like threats of Hell get you nowhere with those who don�t believe in Hell. Are you afraid of the Boogeyman? Of course not. Then my threatening you with what the Boogeyman said wouldn�t get me very far, would it?

I talk to show people about this wonderful truth�yes �this is the TRUTH! Jesus Christ is the LIVING TRUTH�for you and for me and for everyone else. He is there for those who ask of Him, those who wish to believe�I�m enforcing nothing, I talk, you listen, and opinionate you own thoughts.

You�ve shown nothing. And I�m beginning to believe that you are very young.

�If God wanted me to be a Xtian why in Gehenna did He create science and rational thought? This is the basic experience that divination and omen-interpretation is based upon.�
Well, humans were created, and placed in paradise, but they wanted more. Through temptation of the devil and stupidity of themselves, they realised they wanted to be like God, with the knowledge of knowing right and wrong, being intelligent, and making their own decisions�..and so they sinned�
�God gave them their free choice, humans have �free will�. A mind to make their own choices on right and wrong. To do what they think, or in some cases what pleases them.
Humans in their thrive to know things, were not satisfied with their small intellect�they didn�t want to know some things, they wanted to know ALL things, in a sense they wanted to be gods. (Similar story with Lucifer and God�if you don�t know it ask, and I will explain )
So science and rational thought came along, from us�Humans are limited, but they thrive to extend that unextenable limit�when they don�t have the answers, the infer/deduct/assume things that they think are most �plausible� to have happened�(i.e. how the earth was formed by gaseous balls colliding, and such)

When they don�t know the answers, some invent gods and religions to soothe their way to a comfortable set of answers, or to gain followers to keep populations in line. Personally, I DON�T pretend to have the answers. I fully admit that I don�t and I probably never will. AND THAT IS OK. That�s the difference. I don�t need all the answers, but it won�t stop me from looking. And I won�t fill those philosophical holes with fairy tales. I�m OK with them going unfilled until such time as I feel I have valid enough data to fill in the blanks. Like a giant cosmic crossword puzzle I will never finish, but I�d like to see how far I can get. But just filling in bullshit words (like �bible�) because they happen to fit in one slot or another doesn�t make the answers right. And like a crossword puzzle, filling in the wrong answers (and sticking rabidly to them) brings the solution of the puzzle to a grinding halt.

Well, if you guys have any more questions�ask away�I�m here

You keep saying that. Surely you don�t feel you�ve actually shed light on anything yet, do you? Brought anything new to the table? Made a shred of compelling argument for Christianity? No.

And as I said to Valahalla (please read for more info)�.I�m not talking coulple of hundred of years ago, I�m talking billions of years ago, where few people inhabited the earth.

Wow, I totally missed that statement the first time through. This is a point I should have addressed earlier.

Chris, you do realize that the oldest known fossils of Homo sapiens are only about 160,000 years old, right? And that isn’t the same as “billions” of years ago, right? For that matter, you do realize that the current estimate for the age of the Earth is only 4.55 billion years or so, right? Please tell me you were only exaggerating.

Les, I was just about to come in and further address the “billions” and you beat me to it. Well, gee , I guess it IS your blog. Not only do her arguments not jive with scientific fact, they don’t even jive with her own arguments.

This is one of the many things is causing me to think she is very young, and possibly one of DB’s fellow Jesus Humpers. Too many statements wrapped up in hyperbole as if that lends some validity to it. “Yeah, but it was like, a really long time ago! Gah!”

I hate to sound like a misogynist (but I’m going to anyway), but I talk alot on a board full of women. And I find many of them impossible to debate with, regardless of age. Only a very few can even distinguish between FACT and OPINION and wouldn’t know how to rebutt and argument if it flew up their own butt. The debate style on the “big issues” (religion, politics, etc.) makes me want to run screaming through the streets, yet I continue just so I can talk with the handful of wise ones who are there. For the record, I like it here. The contrast is like a cool drink of water in the desert.

I’d love to hear her dinosaur theory. Wait. No I wouldn’t.

Even if we go back to the first member of the Homo genus (homo habilis), we are talking about 1.6 to 2.2 million years. That leaves the billions of years comment off by a factor of about a thousand.

hmmm, going to try my best not to make any errors

but S.A. time it is nerely two in the morning.

being reading and trying to stay up for the “watchers virtual series” an internet spin-off of Buffy, but guess I’m too tired too make it for the 8 pm Eastern time.

instead, some interesting facts I read (maybe off chapies bumble gum) about Genesis.

You know how Eve is generally blamed for the fall of Man? (Umm, kind of like an excuse to keep women in their place?)
Well, during some theological studies, it turns out that

the first test of Adam was when the Snake came to speak to him. Apparently it was not a snake as we know it but a liviathan (spelt as i heard it).
The liviathan was more like a dragon (ok forget chappies it was actually a theologist roman catholit naturalist who mentioned this to me) than a snake. When Adam saw it approaching, he fled, leaving Eve to deal with it.
Adam was supposed to face it, as God had said to him, you are above all my creations. but he turned tail, left the woman to deal with the livithian, who basically told her that “God told you that if you eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, you will die a second death. I’m telling you that if you don’t, you will die.” Kind of a subtle threat. So they ate, and they became overcome by their realisation for earthly passions (apparently they were perfectly balanced before that) and freaked out. In anycase it resulted in their expulsion from Eden.

two points:
the “Devil” had nothing to do with it, but a mythical beast trying to cause trouble

and two: if Adam had done his bit, Eve would not have been put into the every uncomfortable position of having to argue with a big f*cking lizard.

I know it’s not the King James version of the bible, but you know how if you play broken telephones the message gets really screwed 7 people down the line..?

there is NO devil in the Hebrew. There is man (or woman) faced with his (or her) own demons (not external) and the end result is based on how he (or she) deals with it.
Chris, the Devil is just an over-used metaphor for our own darkness. It is no spiritual entity plaguing on us. It is our own weakness that we personify in some way. The ancient Hebrews never required an external entity because the basic message was you are your own enemy. no need for some other! And finding God in that sense is merely finding youself, a harmony that allows you to live comfortably with yourself and your own. Whether that is through religion, philosophy or creed does not matter.

No need to preach a specific code.

No need for savior but ourselves.

If tha gangsta or ventricalman is reading this(and i know that you are) answer me this. was there more than person in your debate group, or did you just cut the top out of soup can and paint it gold. wait a minute your dumb ass probably wouldn’t have thought of that. its probably purple. oops i forgot, you are probably too stupid to work a rattle can.
hey les, at least these ones are some what civil about arguing with you and your friends. even though they still havent got the idea that you dont believe in the bible. by the way if you want to know little stupid things that wont effect you life, but are cool to know, get this book. its called The Best of Uncle Johns Bathroom Reader. it makes the whole launching a dookie expierince that much better