Thoughts on email from True Believers and the Election.

Posted by Les on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 at 09:50 AM. Read 2369 times. Tags: ,
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I’d intended on putting up a new entry on the election prior to leaving for work, but I ended up responding to an email from yet another True Believer™ telling me how I’m very intelligent and yet still a fool for denying God and making assumptions about what disillusioned me or how proud I am of my quick comebacks and how sad it is that I’ll never know the continual contentment and peace of mind that comes from having a personal relationship with God and that they love me so much they’re going to pray for me in hopes that God will make me miserable so I’ll see the light.

You know, the usual sort of email from these types.

Anyway, that took up most of the time I had set aside so I didn’t get a chance to put in the entry I had intended to. If folks are interested I’ll post the email along with my reply, but it’s really not much you’ve not seen here before.

Now in regards to the election: It appears from all the news accounts that Ohio will be this election’s Florida and I’m sure there are a lot of people in Florida right now who are breathing a big sigh of relief considering all the grief they took after the last election. CNN.com is showing a mere 2 electoral college votes difference between Bush and Kerry at the moment with Ohio, Iowa, and New Mexico still to be determined. As much as I’d be pleased with a Kerry come-from-behind victory once the provisional ballots in Ohio are counted I’d also be very surprised if it came to pass. At the moment I’m working under the assumption that Bush will win a second term and it would be very easy to allow my cynical side to go to town, but I’ve opted to take solace in a number of things.

First, the country has survived having bad presidents in the past and there’s no reason it can’t survive Bush. Granted, with Republican gains in both the Senate and the House the probability of Bush doing a lot of damage in the next four years is definitely higher, but perhaps this will be just enough rope for him to hang himself in the long run. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the fight against the worst of his policies shift from deadlocks in Congress to litigation in the courts so now is a great time to join the ACLU if you’re not already a member.

Second, the news stories of high voter turnouts is a positive thing in my mind regardless of the outcome. Voting is one of those rights that Americans should be eager to exercise and it’s an easy one to take for granted. I just hope this is the beginning of a positive trend rather than just a passing blip.

Third, the election was still very close which makes me feel a lot better than I would if Bush had won in a landslide. Only a little over half the country needs to have its head examined as opposed to the vast majority as I’m sometimes prone to think. Seriously, this shows that a continuing discussion on the issues that divide us is definitely a worthwhile pursuit and it gives one reason to hold out hope for the future.

Fourth, while I’m disappointed that 10 of the 11 states voting on the issue of gay marriage amendments opted to approve them overwhelmingly—including Michigan—I also realize this is not as much of a setback as an amendment to the U.S. Constitution would have been. These amendments are still vulnerable to a decision from the U.S. Supreme Court as were similar amendments banning interracial marriage that states such as Alabama had in their constitutions. Even if Bush is able to get an amendment to the U.S. Constitution through the new Congress I won’t fret too much as we already have an example of the country coming to its senses and repealing a bad amendment in the form of Prohibition. Still, as long as the issue continues to be decided by the states I think all it would take are a few more states legalizing gay marriage or civil unions and attracting businesses to locate there as a result before the rest of the states suddenly have a change of heart. Michigan in particular could be in for a rude awakening if the courts decide that the vague language in our new amendment not only outlaws same-sex marriage, but prohibits companies from offering domestic partner benefits to their employees if they want to. It’s funny how quickly moral outrage will give way in the face of losses in jobs and taxes to a local economy.

In the time it’s taken me to write this the news sites are reporting that Kerry will concede the election at 1PM today rather than drag the issue out in the courts. This puts my respect for the man at an all time high as this is preferable to the agonizing weeks on end of wondering that the previous election went through. It’s disappointing and not the outcome many of us would have preferred, but not the end of the world. We can and will make it through another four years of Bush and with a lot of work, and a little luck, perhaps the next election will see the country learn from this mistake and move to a more progressive outlook.

Just be sure to hang on tight as it’ll likely be a bumpy ride.

Update: I thought ***Dave’s comments on the election were spot on and worth being read by both sides.

Comments:

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Chad United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 10:59 PM

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Les, I’ve been following your site for about 2 years now and have enjoyed it a lot.  I never seem to get tired of reading the e-mails from people trying to ‘witness’ to you.  I admit that my wife and I have been fortunate over the last few years.  We live in Taxachusetts and hope to move to warmer climates in a couple of years once I finish my MBA.

I have heard of many people going through hard times, but mostly we have been isolated from it.  I sincerely hope for better times for you and your family.

Having been a New Englander my whole life and watching Ted Kennedy and John Kerry, I couldn’t bring myself to go for a guy like Kerry.  On the other hand, I am not all that happy with Bush either.  I cringe everytime I hear ‘God’ come out of his mouth, I am appalled with how little he has done with securing our borders and I was initially in agreement with the war in Iraq, but I sense an urgency to leave that country or just blow the crap out of it.  I don’t believe in doing things half-ass, and I think that is where we are in Iraq right now.

DOF, I appreciate the debt concerns but most people overlook the percentage of debt to GDP.  I’m not sure where it is relative to the past but I don’t think it is completely out of whack.  The only way I saw Kerry taking care of this issue was by cutting spending (typically military) and raising taxes.  I work for a small company and raising taxes would be painful for many small business owners.  I also don’t believe for an instant that taxes would only be raised on those making $200,000 or more.  The tax cuts put in place by Bush would be allowed to run out or taken back and that would be an increase for most of us.

My only hope, is that our freshly elected lame-duck can finally do something right.  If he doesn’t, the Republican party will not stand a chance in 2008.

deadscot United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 11:29 PM

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Let’s not forget the 50% of IRR soldiers that failed to report for duty, nor the 40% of the military vote that went to Kerry.

Soldiers realize the choice may be risky but they put their faith in their leaders that they will not lead them into harms way without just cause and will have a plan at hand for victory.  George Bush, in his role as Commander-in-Chief, not only betrayed the American people, but he broke the trust of the soldiers that serve beneath him.

As far as Grey’s take on Hillary’s sexual preference...who cares?  That’s exactly the mindset that Bush used to win this election.  What do you fear more, a $25K per person deficit or a homosexual in the Whitehouse?  Most people don’t understand how the deficit impacts them but they’re scared to death of gays running the country.  Stooopid!

I don’t see us all coming together in some happy, happy...joy, joy love-fest to support Bush.  His policies were bad yesterday and they’re still bad today.  Half this country is starting to get the picture and the other half wants to live on some sort of ‘Bush Fantasy Island’.  You would have thought the last guy yelling ‘de planes, de planes’ would have woken them up.

capcha = ‘money’ - Carlyle Group cha-ching

Les United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 11:43 PM

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Watching grey respond is fascinating. On the one hand he prefers to toss out flippant replies and the party line, but then he gets annoyed if anyone else does it or calls him on the carpet for it.

Chad, I appreciate your good thoughts and I won’t hold it against you for voting your conscious, which is all I ever really asked of anyone. Obviously there were enough people in this country that thought Bush was the better choice, or the lesser of two evils, and we’ll move forward and deal with it.

The last thing I’m going to do is cry over spilt milk. It’s a waste of energy better conserved for trying to keep this administration on the straight and narrow.

Neodromos United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 02:25 AM

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The election is not what worries me. Although it is troubling that we now have to wait four more years for this incompetent, insufferable ass to leave office, I am truly disturbed by the GOP’s control of congress. After all, the GOP has made public its intentions to pass legislation that would allow congress to overturn supreme court rulings by majority vote and its intentions to define marriage as the union of a man and a woman only. The latter of the two could simply be challenged in the courts, but then again, if the GOP has its way, a ruling allowing same-sex marriages would simply be overturned by the congress and any other legal precedents which might threaten the GOP. I do not often use the Nazi party as an example, but the GOP is coming dangerously close to creating a utilitarian state. THIS worries me.

ingolfson Germany Posted on 11/04/2004 at 05:29 AM

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Hey, grey:

i didn’t bring it up, ingolfson did.

Both Clinton messing around with Monica and Bush invading Iraq for false reasons are well-documented facts, and therefore valid for reasonable discussion.

Hillary supposedly being a lesbian is a manufactured rumor, a red herring thrown out by you to cloud the issue. But thats only my opinion, of course!

ingolfson Germany Posted on 11/04/2004 at 05:30 AM

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Dang it, forgot the sarcasm tag.

GeekMom United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 08:43 AM

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So if grey’s wife weren’t “putting out,” he’d be messing around on her?

Charming.  And utterly moral.

If it weren’t for Chad’s reasonableness, my stereotype collection of Republicans would be complete.

grey United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 08:54 AM

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les -and nobody else does?  is everyone else here that fucking rightous like some kind or liberal zealot? either you aren’t reading the replies, or you are hearing what you want to hear.  apparently, i’m a “bushlet”.

the funny thing is that i’m not a super-dooder republican trooper, i actually am quite liberal on many subjects.  but i guess i’m the bad guy here and there is no convincing otherwise. 

keep on thinking whatever the hell you want to think.  the fact remains that bush is in for another 4 years and we have a republican congress.  deal with it.  i suggest you do what kerry asks and set aside your differences so the country can heal.

GeekMom United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 09:09 AM

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Oh, we’ll deal with it, all right ...

serge Canada Posted on 11/04/2004 at 09:21 AM

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I want to hear facts about what Bush did right.

I also want to know why 6 month ago or a year ago I had predicted news about bin laden a couple days before election day...either he was going to say something or he was gonna get caught or just news. I am sure that most people here have joked about it too!
America needed a change.

You guys are in deep shit and the whole world knows it...and they’re happy about it.

The only way out of it is more war. History repeats itself.

nowiser United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 10:27 AM

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i suggest you do what kerry asks and set aside your differences so the country can heal

[darthvadervoice]
Submit. 
All will be well. 
Submit to our power, it is the only way. 
For the good of your country, and your family. . .
Submit.
[/darthvadervoice]

****

Serge is right.  History does repeat itself.  And that’s the -good- news.  Even idiots will start seeing through the rhetoric when it comes home to perch on their own doorstep.  Viva la revolucion! 

(And you can’t “join” with someone whose idea of healing is to bend you over at every opportunity.  The Reich’s power is now unchecked.  Prepare for things to get -real- interesting, -real- soon!)

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It vexes me when they would constrain science by the authority of the Scriptures, and yet do not consider themselves bound to answer reason and experiment—Galileo

Les United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 10:53 AM

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Grey, if you don’t want to be thought of as the “bad guy” then try acting like less of an ass. The very first comment you ever left here on 10/29/04 at 11:42AM was, and I quote, “democrats sure do whine a lot.”

From there you went on to demonstrate a questionable set of priorities with regards to what is right and wrong starting with your statement that “i’m sure both parties are guilty of things that are less than ethical -it’s the american way.  it’s only wrong if you get caught” and continuing with “some liberal made a big scene on national television.  he could have disrupted the convention or started a freaking riot if he had not been dealt with swiftly.  for him to try steal tv time in an attempt to make bush look bad was just plain wrong.”

Dude, what the fuck? First you claim that members of either party acting unethically is only wrong if they get caught and then you turn around and whine that it’s wrong for someone to protest at the RNC because it might make Bush look bad?! Politicians of any stripe accepting bribes for favors is A-OK as far as you’re concerned so long as they’re careful enough not to get caught, but don’t you dare make Bush look bad on national TV!

You come on here and you start attacking “liberal fanatics” and saying things like:

i’m really looking forward to 4 more years of whining and conspiracy theories from liberals.  it would almost do the nation good to elect john kerry, so they will shut up...but then again, we’d probably all be speaking farsi and that language is just too difficult for the old farts to get a grasp on.

And then you have the gall to be offended when someone calls you a Bushlet? What? Were we supposed to read that and assume that you were a Ralph Nader fan??

but i guess i’m the bad guy here and there is no convincing otherwise.

You solidified your status as a complete and total asshat in my mind when you left this comment laughing about the Arab journalist who was killed in Iraq on live TV. No, you fucking idiot, that wasn’t “awesome.” Here’s a News Flash: You can’t convince us you’re not the bad guy because you keep opening your mouth and proving our opinions about you are correct. The hypocrisy you demonstrate by complaining about how we’re all a bunch of whiners only to turn around and whine about how we think you’re an asshole would be amusing if it weren’t so fucking pathetic.

keep on thinking whatever the hell you want to think.

Give us good reason to think otherwise and perhaps we will. This doesn’t mean you can’t argue in support of Bush if you honestly feel he’s the right man for the job, but doing so by attacking us as “whining righteous liberal zealots” rather than trying to point out why you think Bush’s plans are actually the way to go is probably not going to sway too many people to your point of view.

the fact remains that bush is in for another 4 years and we have a republican congress.  deal with it.

Deal with it? That’s exactly our plan. Of course, what you really mean is we should just roll over and play dead while Bush does whatever the fuck he wants and that’s not how we plan to deal with it. Sure he may be in office for the next 4 years—barring an impeachment or another nasty run-in with a pretzel—but the next mid-terms for Congress are in only two years so it’s not like there aren’t opportunities to swing the balance of power back around.

i suggest you do what kerry asks and set aside your differences so the country can heal.

If the President and his administration demonstrate that they are going to represent all Americans and are willing to compromise by listening to and considering opposing viewpoints then we might be willing to do as Kerry asked, but if he goes back to doing things the way he’s done them the past four years then you can kiss any hope of us setting aside our differences goodbye.

Lordklegg Canada Posted on 11/04/2004 at 02:35 PM

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Les,
I hear you, but you seem to be wasting your breath. I may well be wrong but you are arguing with a “soundbyte” poster.  I went over to his site and my impresion is that the “soundbyte” and reaction is more important than the content.

For example, In his Nov 2 post regarding Bin Laden it is clear he got his information from a news summary without actually checking what the man said in full.  The Al-queda plan is “Bleed until bankruptcy” not that he “has bankrupted” the U.S. as quoted by Grey.  Given the United states goverment overspent their revenues by over 33% this year alone, how long can these military expenditures be sustained? Last year roughly 10%(hard to decipher budget docs) of the U.S. budget went to interest payments on debt.  The point being made and clearly missed by Grey is that the U.S.S.R. was partially bankrupted by the Arms race and the 10 year conflict in Afghanistan and Bin-Laden sees the same possiblilties for the U.S. given no one there apeaps to want to pay taxes.  Your enemy is giving you clues as to his strategy, grey’s plan ignore what he says none of it is useful. 

Are you wasting your time trying to point out to Grey he doesn’t bother to fact check? or argue anything other that superficially?
I think so.

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ingolfson Europe Posted on 11/04/2004 at 03:02 PM

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Lord,

No matter if Les is wasting his beath on Grey, he isn’t wasting it on use. I think those discussions are pretty interesting most of the time. I missed the bankruptcy remark the first time round. And your opinion on Bin Laden trying to drive the US into ruin via military spending is very interesting.

Geez, he’s a multimillionaire himself (or was). He should know a little about money…

Yes, those civil engineers (I’m one too) can be kinda dangerous wink

grey United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 09:47 PM

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gee les, you’ve got me all figured out.  did it ever occur to you that perhaps a lot of the crap on here offends me?  i feel plenty justified being an ass, as do you, when i am offended.

Etan United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 09:57 PM

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You’re not an ass, you’re a troll.

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“An eye for an eye leaves us all blind.” - Gandhi

Les United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 10:14 PM

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I’m just calling it like I see it, Grey. If you feel justified in being an ass then don’t whine about how everyone here thinks you’re an ass. That just makes you into a hypocritical ass. I can certainly be an ass when I feel it’s justified, but when I do I don’t bitch about how poorly people think of me because I decided to be an ass.

If a lot of the crap here offends you then, by all means, don’t read it. Do you sit around watching television shows that offend you just so you can bitch about how offended you are? If so then I’d say you’re more of a dumb fuck than just a plain old ass.

If you want to engage in a discussion then feel free, but if you just want to piss and moan and act like an ass then be prepared to have people think you’re an ass. It’s pretty simple, really.

grey United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 11:42 PM

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yes, etan.  i’m a troll.

buy all means if one of my posts offends you, don’t read it.

Etan United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 11:43 PM

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Luckily your posts don’t offend me.

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“An eye for an eye leaves us all blind.” - Gandhi

Les United States Posted on 11/04/2004 at 11:48 PM

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I’m not offended by your posts, I’m amused by them. The pure childishness of your temper tantrums have given me more than one good laugh so far. You’re the one whining about being offended.

deadscot United States Posted on 11/05/2004 at 01:50 AM

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If a lot of the crap here offends you then, by all means, don’t read it. Do you sit around watching television shows that offend you just so you can bitch about how offended you are? If so then I’d say you’re more of a dumb fuck than just a plain old ass.

That should be permanently pinned somewhere on this site.

shana Japan Posted on 11/05/2004 at 06:45 AM

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Long, long ago I made a comment in which I responded to Chris, except his name is Chad...apologies…
To Grey:
You know, I think it’s funny that you say that to Les when it’s, um, HIS SITE.  We’re not hopping on your site and writing a bunch of our opinions on it.  You don’t have to troll on here unless you want to.  And clearly, you want to.  So, suck it up.
I also don’t like being labeled a conspiracy theorist.  Conspiracy theorists have actual theories with details and maps.  I made a half-assed crack on my fears and Bush and somehow that puts me in the ranks with the Lone Gunmen.  Not that they aren’t awesome, but come on, I wash my dishes SOMETIMES and I totally took a shower this morning.
Dude, check this out!

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“Like reindeer in the sky you can.”

Les United States Posted on 11/05/2004 at 06:54 AM

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DS, grin

Shana, that’s damned funny.

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