Thoughts on email from True Believers and the Election.

Posted by Les on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 at 09:50 AM. Read 2497 times. Tags: ,
{name} pic

I’d intended on putting up a new entry on the election prior to leaving for work, but I ended up responding to an email from yet another True Believer™ telling me how I’m very intelligent and yet still a fool for denying God and making assumptions about what disillusioned me or how proud I am of my quick comebacks and how sad it is that I’ll never know the continual contentment and peace of mind that comes from having a personal relationship with God and that they love me so much they’re going to pray for me in hopes that God will make me miserable so I’ll see the light.

You know, the usual sort of email from these types.

Anyway, that took up most of the time I had set aside so I didn’t get a chance to put in the entry I had intended to. If folks are interested I’ll post the email along with my reply, but it’s really not much you’ve not seen here before.

Now in regards to the election: It appears from all the news accounts that Ohio will be this election’s Florida and I’m sure there are a lot of people in Florida right now who are breathing a big sigh of relief considering all the grief they took after the last election. CNN.com is showing a mere 2 electoral college votes difference between Bush and Kerry at the moment with Ohio, Iowa, and New Mexico still to be determined. As much as I’d be pleased with a Kerry come-from-behind victory once the provisional ballots in Ohio are counted I’d also be very surprised if it came to pass. At the moment I’m working under the assumption that Bush will win a second term and it would be very easy to allow my cynical side to go to town, but I’ve opted to take solace in a number of things.

First, the country has survived having bad presidents in the past and there’s no reason it can’t survive Bush. Granted, with Republican gains in both the Senate and the House the probability of Bush doing a lot of damage in the next four years is definitely higher, but perhaps this will be just enough rope for him to hang himself in the long run. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the fight against the worst of his policies shift from deadlocks in Congress to litigation in the courts so now is a great time to join the ACLU if you’re not already a member.

Second, the news stories of high voter turnouts is a positive thing in my mind regardless of the outcome. Voting is one of those rights that Americans should be eager to exercise and it’s an easy one to take for granted. I just hope this is the beginning of a positive trend rather than just a passing blip.

Third, the election was still very close which makes me feel a lot better than I would if Bush had won in a landslide. Only a little over half the country needs to have its head examined as opposed to the vast majority as I’m sometimes prone to think. Seriously, this shows that a continuing discussion on the issues that divide us is definitely a worthwhile pursuit and it gives one reason to hold out hope for the future.

Fourth, while I’m disappointed that 10 of the 11 states voting on the issue of gay marriage amendments opted to approve them overwhelmingly—including Michigan—I also realize this is not as much of a setback as an amendment to the U.S. Constitution would have been. These amendments are still vulnerable to a decision from the U.S. Supreme Court as were similar amendments banning interracial marriage that states such as Alabama had in their constitutions. Even if Bush is able to get an amendment to the U.S. Constitution through the new Congress I won’t fret too much as we already have an example of the country coming to its senses and repealing a bad amendment in the form of Prohibition. Still, as long as the issue continues to be decided by the states I think all it would take are a few more states legalizing gay marriage or civil unions and attracting businesses to locate there as a result before the rest of the states suddenly have a change of heart. Michigan in particular could be in for a rude awakening if the courts decide that the vague language in our new amendment not only outlaws same-sex marriage, but prohibits companies from offering domestic partner benefits to their employees if they want to. It’s funny how quickly moral outrage will give way in the face of losses in jobs and taxes to a local economy.

In the time it’s taken me to write this the news sites are reporting that Kerry will concede the election at 1PM today rather than drag the issue out in the courts. This puts my respect for the man at an all time high as this is preferable to the agonizing weeks on end of wondering that the previous election went through. It’s disappointing and not the outcome many of us would have preferred, but not the end of the world. We can and will make it through another four years of Bush and with a lot of work, and a little luck, perhaps the next election will see the country learn from this mistake and move to a more progressive outlook.

Just be sure to hang on tight as it’ll likely be a bumpy ride.

Update: I thought ***Dave’s comments on the election were spot on and worth being read by both sides.

Comments:

Page 2 of 3 pages  <  1 2 3 >

Queen Millifiore United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 05:19 PM

Queen Millifiore pic

Obahma/Clinton? Well I like them both but I think that Hilary has too many personal issues that would detract from the message, her past making her a continuing target.

I think that we need a governor to run, easier to elect. Unfortunately we’ll probably find someone that speaks Bubba (I’m tired of presidents with a southern accent) to get some support in the south.

Kathleen Sebelius, the Democratic governor of a VERY Republican Kansas would make a good Veep candidate.

BTW, I need some sympathy here in MO. Not only did we get stuck with 4 more years of federal governance by god’s guidance, we ended up with an Ashworth (former MO governor) protege for our governor here. Arrrggghhhh!

VernR United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 06:04 PM

VernR pic

Q M, I knew that Farmer didn’t have a chance against Kit Bond, but I thought it Claire M. might win the Governor’s race. Mutual condolences.

Lordklegg Canada Posted on 11/03/2004 at 06:15 PM

Lordklegg pic

Decrepitoldfool has it on the money.  When is anyone in the U.S. planning on paying the debt.  The only way I can see it happening is the devaluation of the US currency, due to the debt to GDP ratio. This will allow more exports of US manufactured goods.  The drawback is that the resources to make those goods become that much more exspensive when the value of your currency drops.  Profits must be maintained so where to make cuts....hmmmm… That workforce they are damned exspensive we should just pay them less.  The U.S. government will soon learn the lesson of Interest payments, when 30%+ of your tax dollar is going to finance interest on the national debt which programs to cut...hmm, well we can always raise taxes on those workers, yea thats the ticket, the GOP ticket.

 Signature 

Sibling Battlebot of All Encompassing Justice
A2+B2=C2 is my bestest friend

Trotsky United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 06:18 PM

Trotsky pic

I think this comic sums it up.

Even if Kerry would have won I think I’d be trying to leave the US. I just finished earning a Master of Library and Information Science degree and the differences between the US job market and the job markets in every other English speaking country is depressing. The latest job posting for a Librarian job in Michigan was a four month short term contract, part time (12-20 hours a week), $14/hour, no significant benefits, etc. This is pretty much standard for many American Library jobs in recent times. (There are a few exceptions but those are mostly in major urban centers like New York & LA or Director positions, which I lack experience for.) Almost all the jobs in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, & the UK would allow me to actually utilize my education and produce something beneficial to society. Unfortunately, I don’t even have enough money to fill out all the proper applications and fly to whatever country I’d find a job in. Right now I haven’t heard a thing from any of the retail stores that I have applied at so I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. I can’t afford to relocate and I currently have no means of gaining the needed money.  angry

shana Japan Posted on 11/03/2004 at 07:26 PM

shana pic

Deadscot, I ain’t EVER joining ‘em.  Much as I want to leave the country, I can’t help thinking that’s a bad idea.  If all the sane people leave, there will be nothing but homophobic fundie hicks in the US and then we’ll really be in trouble. 

Of course, I do live in a foreign country right now, but for unrelated reasons...I’ll be back in the summer, hacking along in the crap-ass Ohio job market this summer.  Which, for the record, Chris, sucks rocks.  Go, GeekMom.

Brock, I am with you.  I really respect you, Les, for having such a positive attitude in the face of the election and your own problems.  But I can’t help but feel so DISAPPOINTED.  My Japanese coworkers have been asking ME why Ohio went Bush, as if I am somehow responsible for the entire state.
Silly as y’all may think me, I have actual fears of Bush becoming the fascist leader of the American Empire, and I’ll be damned if I’m gonna let THAT happen.  There were still tons of good Germans in Nazi Germany.  (Of course, it’s interesting that my fear fuels my hatred of Bush, much as the fundies’ fear fuels their support of him...)

I’m gonna go try and explain why people who vote in elections NOT controlled by the national mafia chose a complete retard for president.  I really hate that AP photo floating around of the Bush supporters at his celebration rally.  The rest of the world must feel how we felt when Fox put out that phony image of Palestinians cheering in the streets after 9/11.  It’s an affront.

 Signature 

“Like reindeer in the sky you can.”

grey United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 08:00 PM

grey pic

i’ve never seen such a large group of conspiracy theorists feed off each other like this.  it’s great!

you guys should really chill out.  at this rate, you’ll burn up by the end of the year.  remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.

you guys voiced your opinions at the polls, now it’s time to jump on the team and come in for the big win.

ingolfson Germany Posted on 11/03/2004 at 08:13 PM

ingolfson pic

Hey grey, if you had actually read our posts, you would have found that none of us said the election was stolen, or that Bush won because he cheated. He hoodwinked the US electorate fair and square.

WE ARE SIMPLY FUCKING ANGRY THAT HE SUCCEEDED.

Justice United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 08:34 PM

Justice pic

The plan to amend the constitution to reflect the twisted religious beliefs of fundamentalists who just cannot get over themselves and accept the fact that homosexuals are not sexual deviants looking to defile their sons and daughters is not a conspiracy theory, it’s just a scary fucking reality. As are the people struggling to feed their families and scrambling to find even bunk jobs.

No one is imagining getting bent over at the gas pump, our asses really are in the air!

Conspiracy theories are things like “SADDAM CAN KILL US IN ONE HOUR WITH HIS WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION!!! WE MUST ATTACK NOW!!!!”

... or here’s a good one, “Those who attacked us on 9/11 will face justice.”

Jump on your team? I’m sorry, I was born with some level of my own intelligence and compassion which would only get in your way.

grey United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 08:49 PM

grey pic

i did read your posts, but according to justice i’m stupid because i have a different opinion, so you’ll have to bear with my inferior ability to deal with large words. i see you’re angry, i just don’t understand how someone can express such complete hatred over issues that they probably don’t know everything about. go get a squishy ball, jerk off, get a membership at the gym, or take your favorite drug before your head pops off.

ingolfson Germany Posted on 11/03/2004 at 08:57 PM

ingolfson pic

Says the side that spent, what - two, three? - years obsessing over whether or not Clinton was doing the naughty with Monica.

That was a hate on par with the one we keep for Bush. And for what? Moral values, my ass.

My head is firmly on, stays on, and thats the main reason I’d never vote for someone like Bush.

grey United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:13 PM

grey pic

congratulations, you’re anti-bush.  move on.

i’ve heard an interesting thing about hillary.  apparently she is bi and is wayyy worse than bill.  not that i really care or anything, but it could explain his behavior with monica (not that i care about that either).

Etan United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:17 PM

Etan pic

grey: If you don’t care then why do you bring it up?

If Hillary was a Lesbian would it make her less of a person? If George W. Bush was gay would he be a bad leader?

 Signature 

“An eye for an eye leaves us all blind.” - Gandhi

Justice United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:20 PM

Justice pic

Hate? No, try absolute exhaustion mixed with total frustration over the complete nonsense governing our country.

And I never called you stupid. As far as I know, you just aren’t paying attention.

I AM.

grey United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:25 PM

grey pic

etan, i didn’t.

no and no.  lemme help you with the point i made above:

“....but it could explain his behavior with monica”

Etan United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:28 PM

Etan pic

But you continued by saying you don’t care about his behavior with Monica.

I’d imagine George Walker Bush has issues with his father, he probably feels that his father doesn’t believe in his ability and that is why he felt a need to finish what his daddy started and take Saddam Hussein out of power. Does that matter? Not really but it sure as hell is more important than whether or not Hillary Clinton is Bisexual.

 Signature 

“An eye for an eye leaves us all blind.” - Gandhi

Etan United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:38 PM

Etan pic

From Slashdot:

“Blackboxvoting.org has raised the largest Freedom of Information request in history. At 8:30 p.m. Election Night, Black Box Voting blanketed the U.S. with the first in a series of public records requests, to obtain internal computer logs and other documents from 3,000 individual counties and townships. Networks called the election before anyone bothered to perform even the most rudimentary audit. Among the first requests sent to counties (with all kinds of voting systems—optical scan, touch-screen, and punch card) is a formal records request for internal audit logs, polling place results slips, modem transmission logs, and computer trouble slips.”

The site is down right now due to bandwidth problems but here’s the link for when they come back up.

 Signature 

“An eye for an eye leaves us all blind.” - Gandhi

grey United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:38 PM

grey pic

dood, i know you’ve gotta vent, but don’t let it could your vision.  i was merely stating that hillary being bi and messing around on bill might explain why he was messing around on her.  as far as i’m concerened, what they do to get their jollies is none of my business.

justice -you may not have called me stupid, but the last line in your previous post left me with that impression.  it obviosly wasn’t typed to make me feel good.

Etan United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:41 PM

Etan pic

All I am asking is if you don’t care then why did you bring it up? Furthermore, what does Hillary’s sexuality have to do with anything?

 Signature 

“An eye for an eye leaves us all blind.” - Gandhi

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:43 PM

decrepitoldfool pic

Grey, we might be able to move on a lot more easily than the families of a thousand dead American soldiers and the families of a hundred thousand dead Iraqis could.  Not to mention people who joined the Guard to defend our country in case of an invasion, or to help with national disasters, only to be sent to an unwinnable war based on a… well, you get upset if I say “lie,” so let’s just call it a “flip-flopping rationale.”

And our grandchildren might have trouble moving on from the debt created as this president whipped out the plastic and said, “send the bill to them.”

Justice United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:43 PM

Justice pic

grey - yeah, I know, and this is just infinitely more important than any real conspiracy theories, such as any involving Bush, Hussein, and WMD’s.

And for the record. I don’t care about a President screwing an intern. I do care about a President screwing an entire country.

grey United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:46 PM

grey pic

i didn’t bring it up, ingolfson did.  if you read what i typed without thinking i’m automatically against gays or clinton you could see that i was trying to give some explaination about why slick willy messed around with monica -in effect trying to stand up for him.

grey United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:50 PM

grey pic

justice -i don’t care about slick willy fucking around on monica either.  hell, if my wife weren’t putting out i’d be fucking around on her too!

Justice United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 09:53 PM

Justice pic

Evaded like a true Bushlet. Spoken like a true jackass. There, now you can be offended.

Goodnight.

grey United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 10:16 PM

grey pic

sorry, i’m not offended.  you’ve got your own agenda and you’re hearing what you want to hear about what i was saying about clinton.

decrepitoldfool -i grew up an army brat and have been serving in the guard for 8 years.  i had to deploy because of the war in iraq, but i didn’t cry about it.  i actually look forward to another deployment -they’re great learning experiences.  military families understand the position they are in.  a soldier’s work is risky.  they understand and accept the risk, and if they don’t they don’t belong in uniform.  i can’t speak for the iraqi people because i haven’t been there to see how they feel about it.  i haven’t heard much about national debt other than the deficit is on the rise.  rebuilding iraq won’t be cheap.

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 10:41 PM

decrepitoldfool pic

grey, I daresay your fine positive attitude about deployment would be an exception among those deployed in Iraq.  This is supported by the Pentagon “stop-loss” order and fall-off in enlistment.

How they feel about their dead is probably not difficult to imagine; they are human.  How would you feel?  Not how would you rationalize, but your family members are dead - how would you feel?

As for the deficit, you might want to take a look at the numbers.  Right now it’s about $25,000 per citizen - that’s every man, woman, child, retired person.  It falls disproportionately on working people and devotes a huge portion of the taxes collected to paying interest on the debt.

Incidentally, who loans all that money to our country?  Other countries with cash.  Like oil-producing countries.

Page 2 of 3 pages  <  1 2 3 >

Name:

Email:

Location:

URL:

Smileys


Remember my personal information

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Submit the word you see below:


<< Back to main

Stupid Evil Bastard