Thoughts on email from True Believers and the Election.

Posted by Les on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 at 09:50 AM. Read 2226 times. Tags: ,
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I’d intended on putting up a new entry on the election prior to leaving for work, but I ended up responding to an email from yet another True Believer™ telling me how I’m very intelligent and yet still a fool for denying God and making assumptions about what disillusioned me or how proud I am of my quick comebacks and how sad it is that I’ll never know the continual contentment and peace of mind that comes from having a personal relationship with God and that they love me so much they’re going to pray for me in hopes that God will make me miserable so I’ll see the light.

You know, the usual sort of email from these types.

Anyway, that took up most of the time I had set aside so I didn’t get a chance to put in the entry I had intended to. If folks are interested I’ll post the email along with my reply, but it’s really not much you’ve not seen here before.

Now in regards to the election: It appears from all the news accounts that Ohio will be this election’s Florida and I’m sure there are a lot of people in Florida right now who are breathing a big sigh of relief considering all the grief they took after the last election. CNN.com is showing a mere 2 electoral college votes difference between Bush and Kerry at the moment with Ohio, Iowa, and New Mexico still to be determined. As much as I’d be pleased with a Kerry come-from-behind victory once the provisional ballots in Ohio are counted I’d also be very surprised if it came to pass. At the moment I’m working under the assumption that Bush will win a second term and it would be very easy to allow my cynical side to go to town, but I’ve opted to take solace in a number of things.

First, the country has survived having bad presidents in the past and there’s no reason it can’t survive Bush. Granted, with Republican gains in both the Senate and the House the probability of Bush doing a lot of damage in the next four years is definitely higher, but perhaps this will be just enough rope for him to hang himself in the long run. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the fight against the worst of his policies shift from deadlocks in Congress to litigation in the courts so now is a great time to join the ACLU if you’re not already a member.

Second, the news stories of high voter turnouts is a positive thing in my mind regardless of the outcome. Voting is one of those rights that Americans should be eager to exercise and it’s an easy one to take for granted. I just hope this is the beginning of a positive trend rather than just a passing blip.

Third, the election was still very close which makes me feel a lot better than I would if Bush had won in a landslide. Only a little over half the country needs to have its head examined as opposed to the vast majority as I’m sometimes prone to think. Seriously, this shows that a continuing discussion on the issues that divide us is definitely a worthwhile pursuit and it gives one reason to hold out hope for the future.

Fourth, while I’m disappointed that 10 of the 11 states voting on the issue of gay marriage amendments opted to approve them overwhelmingly—including Michigan—I also realize this is not as much of a setback as an amendment to the U.S. Constitution would have been. These amendments are still vulnerable to a decision from the U.S. Supreme Court as were similar amendments banning interracial marriage that states such as Alabama had in their constitutions. Even if Bush is able to get an amendment to the U.S. Constitution through the new Congress I won’t fret too much as we already have an example of the country coming to its senses and repealing a bad amendment in the form of Prohibition. Still, as long as the issue continues to be decided by the states I think all it would take are a few more states legalizing gay marriage or civil unions and attracting businesses to locate there as a result before the rest of the states suddenly have a change of heart. Michigan in particular could be in for a rude awakening if the courts decide that the vague language in our new amendment not only outlaws same-sex marriage, but prohibits companies from offering domestic partner benefits to their employees if they want to. It’s funny how quickly moral outrage will give way in the face of losses in jobs and taxes to a local economy.

In the time it’s taken me to write this the news sites are reporting that Kerry will concede the election at 1PM today rather than drag the issue out in the courts. This puts my respect for the man at an all time high as this is preferable to the agonizing weeks on end of wondering that the previous election went through. It’s disappointing and not the outcome many of us would have preferred, but not the end of the world. We can and will make it through another four years of Bush and with a lot of work, and a little luck, perhaps the next election will see the country learn from this mistake and move to a more progressive outlook.

Just be sure to hang on tight as it’ll likely be a bumpy ride.

Update: I thought ***Dave’s comments on the election were spot on and worth being read by both sides.

Comments:

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ingolfson Germany Posted on 11/03/2004 at 12:06 PM

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Wooof. What a let-down. Somehow I was pretty sure Kerry would win - even do well. It all really boggles the mind. As shana said over in the other thread, its really a hard task trying to comprehend how people could favor such a man.

You’re right in that a second Bush term ain’t the end of the world. And we can always daydream that with all the bad results of his first term becoming more visible in his second, he may eventually face that backlash we had always hoped for (but which, once sworn in as president, have dogged Kerry too). Maybe democrats will be back real strong in 2008. Maybe.

Though I totally doubt it that Bush will temper his second term, like some pundits have suggested. He will govern as much to the right as during his first term, maybe even more. The damage for you and the world will be serious.

Sad day indeed.

Maggiepie United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 12:07 PM

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I have been reading this blog for a few months now and I quite enjoy the discussions here.  I am writing for the first time today to express my sadness over the outcome of this election.  It truly feels like a kick in the stomach.

Well I guess the Bushies got what they wanted. 4 more wars! 4 more wars!

ingolfson Germany Posted on 11/03/2004 at 12:09 PM

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As for the true believer mail exchange. Post it. We wouldn’t like your site if we didn’t have some sort of strange fascination for these discussions.

Chazzy666 United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 12:16 PM

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Yes, please post it. I always gain a little more ammunition for my own debates when I read your responses.

Obahma/Clinton ‘08. It could happen! wink

Etan United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 12:19 PM

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I am honestly scared. Republicans control the House, Senate, Presidency and will soon be able to appoint at least one Supreme Court member.

I really am scared. We can justify this as much as we want but this is the worst thing I have ever seen happen in my entire life. Mind you, I’m only 21, but this is still bad news.

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“An eye for an eye leaves us all blind.” - Gandhi

Les United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 12:20 PM

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I must say that Obama’s win was definitely a bright spot in this election. Thank you people of Illinois for making the right choice on that contest at least.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Chazzy666 United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 12:39 PM

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I too would also like to thank great state of Illinois for making the sane choice. Can you imagine a world where George Bush is president and Alan Keyes is a governor? Very Scary! Luckily it wasn’t even a close vote. To me, Keyes may be the most frightening of all current political figures(Besides Cheney and Rumsfeld of course).

Justice United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 12:45 PM

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Les, you said your cynical side could have gone to town. My neurosis was already blazing new trails. Thanks for the Valium.

On another positive note, unless my fears come to pass,
this is the last 4 years we will have to deal with his ... er, him.

I have misunderstood the votes to ban gay marriages. I think I was expecting the new ink on the US constitution to dry today.

Chad United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 12:46 PM

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One of the questions that is always posed during an election is, “are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?”.  For my wife and I the answer is an easy “YES”.  Our tax rate is lower, we make more money, we bought a house, I bought my first ‘vette, we go away on vacation every year, etc. 

Many people have expressed what a disaster everything would be when Bush became president 4 years ago and it didn’t happen.  Social security is still fine, the recession that began before he took office is mostly behind us and people are mostly doing pretty well (if I am to judge by going to local malls).  The only big problem is the war in Iraq.  And I don’t know the answer to that problem.

So, regardless of everyone’s religious theocracy conspiracy theories, I still had to vote for Bush.  I was personally surprised at how well the Republican party did overall.  With a more secure hold on the house and senate the light will be just a bit brighter on them.  If the republican government screws up now, they have no excuses and you will see a big change in 4 years.  If nothing happens ....?

Just my take on things.

VernR United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 01:12 PM

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Although I’m disappointed with the outcome, I’m not surprised. The polls had it too close to call, the incumbency definitely conferred an advantage in this election and, rightly or wrongly, many believed that Bush would be better on national security. On a positive note. Nader didn’t sway the outcome this time and the market is up today.

Obahma/Clinton ‘08. It could happen!

Which Clinton?  smile

GeekMom United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 01:14 PM

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Les, thanks for the positive notes.  I really need them right now.

My brother, who writes for Congressional Quarterly, wrote a cover piece on how the GOP is doing as a party, and made some interesting points on how fractured the party may well become with Bush’s victory.  There are plenty of moderates who are not at all happy with the direction in which things are going.  Let’s hope they stand up in the House and Senate and bring this madness to an end.

Chad, no offense, but your reasoning seems to me to be what I find typical of the Republican mindset:  “I’m doing fine, so who cares about the rest?” The question is whether the country as a WHOLE (and that includes the people who can’t afford to go to the malls) is doing better.  If you judge it in terms of equality, civil liberties, peace, a balanced budget, and moral authority among the rest of the world, we are failing miserably.  Some people might be doing better economically now, but a much larger number of people, both inside and outside the country, aren’t.

***Dave United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 01:31 PM

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A good point, GeekMom.  There are a lot in the GOP unhappy with the rise in power of the social conservatives—and, now, the apparent abandonment of the fiscal conservatism of the past term.  My hope had been that a Bush loss would lead to a clearing of that particular house, but perhaps a Bush win will make the change as well.

deadscot United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 01:36 PM

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I expect we’ll be seeing quite a few more proselytizers now.  Most of the fundamentalists saw Bush as being appointed by God and his reelection along with a strong republican congress might fuel the fires for revivalists.

I would suspect that the Christian Coalition would look to forward their agenda under this administration after Bush makes some changes to SCOTUS.

I’m feeling quite cynical today and think that many dems will fall into the trap of defeatism and take on the attitude of ‘if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.  I hope that’s not the case.  We’ve been through worse. but it’s always nice to take a step forward instead of two steps back.

Cindi United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 02:13 PM

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Thank you, GeekMom.  I am a Republican.  I am a moderate Republican.  I feel so completely alienated from the party (and from the Democrats). I have to believe that there are others out there like me, but where are they?  WHERE ARE ALL THE FUCKING MODERATES????

Sorry.  Feeling a little bit disenfranchised today.

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The stupid!  It burns!!

Laughing Muse United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 02:18 PM

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For those feeling less-than-thrilled by another four years of Bush, no matter which way you voted:

Countdown to lame duck.

Mrs SEB United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 02:51 PM

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Chad is doing better than he was 4 years ago? Cool. I’m a little jealous… improved tax rate (not us), a house (not us), a “vette” (hhhmmm), and annual vacations (fun stuff).  I honestly can say I’m glad someone is doing well right now.

We certainly are not and most of the people we know are not better off, that’s for sure.  Many are certainly worse off and I’m sorry, but I don’t see the repression as “being over” or improved greatly. Oh well, lets just get the party started.  Four more W. years, here we come.

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Freedom is not worth having;
if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.

- Ghandi

Les United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 02:51 PM

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Etan, try not to sweat it too much. Worrying about things that haven’t happened yet will only make you ill. Certainly keep a wary eye open, but try not to let your fears overwhelm your rationality and sap your strength. If the worst does come to pass then you’ll need that energy you would have otherwise wasted. It works for me at least.

Justice, no changes to the U.S. Constitution just yet. Strictly at the state-level right now.

Chad, if I were to use your reasoning I’d still have to vote against Bush. I am not better off today than I was four years ago. Bush’s tax cut has not translated into a larger paycheck for me in any real way. In fact the economy has been so bad during Bush’s term that my pay rate has been cut twice in that time and I lost 12% of what I was making when I first hired into my job. At this point in time I’m not quite making ends meet and am looking to take on a part-time second job. My wife isn’t currently working and is having trouble finding even a crappy job at a local store so I am the sole income earner. I had hoped to purchase a house within three years of moving into this apartment and would have had my pay not been cut, but I’m now heading into year six of living here with little hope of buying a home anytime soon. Both of my vehicles are in need of maintenance and I haven’t the funds to have work done on either of them. I’m probably going to have to drop my cable service along with my broadband in the near future and I have a storage unit that I rent to hold some of the stuff there isn’t any room in the apartment for that I will be cleaning out this weekend and tossing a lot of valued things I’d rather keep because I can’t afford to pay the rent on the storage any longer. Certainly with these and other adjustments I won’t be in any danger of being homeless anytime soon, but it definitely means my standard of living has suffered significantly under Bush’s time in office.

But I will survive and move on. I always seem to find a way.

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All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Sunfell United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 03:36 PM

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While the sky-pilots are celebrating their mandate from God, the rest of us need to regroup, wipe the tears from our eyes, and consider how we will push back this Dominionist tide that has come sweeping through the GOP.

There are moderate Republicans. They’ve been muffled, shouted down, and even brutally silenced by the overweening Right. We need to help them out. We need to help them push back, help them to reclaim the Party of Lincoln before it literally does become the Party of God. GOP will stand for God’s Own Party instead of Grand Old Party if we don’t get off our asses (and elephants) and pull the plug on these people.

If we don’t, we’ll wake up in some gawdawful theocracy one day, and won’t be able to blame anyone but ourselves.

Find a Republican. Befriend him or her. Help them reclaim their party. Help us reclaim our country.

Sunfell

Brock United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 04:17 PM

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The folks who voted for Bush are idiots and dupes and evil homophobic crypto-fascist theocratic thugs!

I know I wasn’t supposed to say that, but I feel better for it. Not much, but a little better. It’s going to take me a while to swallow this bitter pill.

It’s not all bad I guess. At least I can keep making condescending entries about the Bushettes. - Silver lining of a sow’s silk purse or whatever.

Onward and back-wards! I’ll see some of you in the camps, I guess.

grey United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 04:18 PM

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damage?  wtf are you guys talking about?  the next four years will come and go and you will all still be safely sitting behind your computers.

Les United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 04:32 PM

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Unless, of course, we opt to exercise our free speech rights anywhere near the President. Of course, you don’t think we should be allowed to do that.

 Signature 

All I know is the wine lasts longer when you don’t gotta share it with someone
All I know is my steak tastes better when I take my steak tastes better pill
-- I Feel Fantastic, Jonathan Coulton

Brian United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 04:33 PM

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Dissappointing doesn’t even begin to cover it for me.  Sorry Les, but I’ve had it.  If the Christians want this damn country, they can have it.  I’m betting money, that we will see a quick return of the Federal Marriage Amendment.  Based on the current state of things, I think it will pass.  I’ve just had it with the entire mess.  I’m leaving as soon as I can and the country can go stuff themselves.  Within 4 years, I figure the US will be at war with most of the world anyways.  We’ve seen him attack civil liberties in this country left and right.  And fight against human rights and equal rights.  All this while talking about compassionate conservatism.  BULLSHIT! There is nothing compassionate about this president.  If we think Bush was arrogant before… JFC wait till you see him now.  He’ll be crowing that he speaks for all of us!  I’m am just so totally over it!

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 04:50 PM

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Chad, Bush didn’t lower taxes; he just postponed them so your grandchildren will have to pay.  This pleases you?

“Damage?  wtf are you guys talking about?”

Good question, grey; and here’s the answer:
- damage to our international standing and allies’ relationships
- damage to future generations in the form of extreme deficit spending
- damage to the 1st amendment… the one our founding fathers put FIRST for a reason
- damage to our national security.  That’s right - our military is bogged down in a conflict with a country that wasn’t a threat to us.  Now if we are attacked again and need to go kick someone’s ass, we can’t.
- damage to national unity from hammering on wedge issues in a cynical attempt to sway frightened voters
- damage to the justice system
- damage to the environment

That’s what we’re talking about when we say, “damage.”

ingolfson Germany Posted on 11/03/2004 at 05:08 PM

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For those feeling less-than-thrilled by another four years of Bush, no matter which way you voted:

Countdown to lame duck.

What if they nominate Jeb Bush in 2008?

Scaaary thought. Unlikely? We believed Georgie was too stupid to be elected, turned out we knew nothing. 4 years of this shit and his electoral tally has even become better.

I agree with you Brock, many of those voting for him are simply stupid, because they voted against their own interests, and for their fears (gays, terrorists). There ain’t so many millions of millionaires. Heck, there probably ain’t even nearly enough that many middle-class people left.

It always scares me when I hear how people like Les can be struggling over in the US. Sure, its not Disneyland here in Germany either, but…

Hey Les, before you ever pull the plug on SEB because of costs, remember our offer of donating bandwidth!

GeekMom United States Posted on 11/03/2004 at 05:13 PM

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Just a reminder:  now, more than ever, you need to buy an SEB T-Shirt and wear it back to your polling place ...

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