Well, guess I will start by saying Theocracies of any flavor always fail miserably, whether they be the Aztec, Islam, or Christian brand is moot they are all totalitarian brutal regimes.

As for Lee Strobels “Case for Christ” manure, that is about the stupidest thing Iv read in a long time, instead of wasting my breath to discredit such blatant crap I’ll let Earl Doherty do so in his excellent rebuttal “Challenging the Verdict” which dismantled Strobel piece by piece.
http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/CTVExcerptsIntro.htm Case Closed!

Now one thing I have seen time & time again by Christian Apologist (Yes all of you should apologize for the Mind Plague you have inflicted upon this planet) is they always say something to the effect of “Iv researched” “All the positive evidence” “the evidence for god is overwhelming” etc. etc. and other such blathering, yet in 30 years of talking to Christians I have yet heard a single one of them tell me just what the hell this evidence is that is so “overwhelming” every last one of them end up quoting some stinking verse from whatever version of the Bible they prescribe to, 8 times outa 10 its something that lunatic Saul/Paul said, which BTW obviously knew nothing of any Jesus character as claimed in the 4 canonized gospels.
Most of the so called “Christians” can be better classified “Paulinians” practicing Paulianity.
This “inerrant” Bible is so chock full of errors one really would not know where to begin, it is so contradictory that quite literally you can make the Bible mean whatever the hell you want it to.

Now down to factual reality, Im one of those Atheist that has to MY satisfaction, proven beyond any shadow of any doubt that no God of ANYKIND exist in reality. Gods of all kinds do exist in the MINDS of the severely deluded however.
I in fact have researched religions of all kinds extensively for about 30 years, my conclusions are based on verifiable evidence & Archeological facts and in general is this: ALL Religion is man made for selfish reasons usually from Fear, lack of knowledge, & power to control the masses.
God did NOT make man.....Man made God/s.

I have some 82 various books & Archeological journals in my library that make a very strong case against ALL Religions. This evidence IS truly overwhelming AND verifiable & can be cross referenced usually by several sources.

It is actually quite easy to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Christian God & or Jesus etc. in fact do NOT exist, the evidence is rather substantial & in my view irrefutable. This once again is MY VIEW of this evidence, personally I cant see how anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together could view it any other way, but oh well.

Number 1 without Jesus there is no Christianity.
What evidence is there of any Jesus character actually existing? NONE! not 1 single shred of verifiable evidence of any kind was written about or by him “during” his alleged lifetime, not a single word.
How can this be? How can supposedly this Godman whom sent HIMSELF down to Earth in order to teach his children right from wrong etc. etc., ramble around in one tiny area of the M.E. for over 30 years yet never so much as pick up a quill and scribble an X on any medium?
Not one single historian, scribe, writer, anybody ever wrote a word about all these unbelievable exploits, no mention of this Jesus curing the sick, the blind, raising the dead, blocking out the sun for days, walking on water, feeding multitudes with a loaf of bread and so on, now this was no alleged Monk or Hermit sitting in some cave on the top of some desolate mountain somewhere, this was The Lord Jesus Christ, the savior of all mankind, whom had allegedly throngs of people that gathered around him most everywhere he went, yet not a single word?
This fact alone makes the Jesus Myth highly suspect to say the least.

So where did this Jesus come from then?  well lets look at the clues.
Not a single word written about any Godman called Jesus during his lifetime.
Not until “at least” 70CE is there an alleged gospel naming this miraculous being (Gospel according to Mark) which is a pseudonymous writing, there was no person named Mark whom wrote it, nobody has any idea who wrote ANY of the Gospels, only thing that is remotely known about them are their nationality, of which NONE were Hebrew/Jewish all were Greek or Roman, and all 4 of the “canonized” Gospels were written no earlier than 70CE and none ever referred to until at least 170CE so the 4 were written between 70-170CE without question, so between 40-140 years after the alleged events and all from “Oral traditions” so what you have in the Bible is at very best jaded hearsay.

So we are still left with the question of what is the true origin of this Jesus myth?

Well the answers are found in ancient Kemetic Astrological dramas. Namely the Yusirian Drama, Drama of Bel, also the Egyptian book of the Dead, and “The Sumerian Tablets”.
The Jesus character is very clearly a copy of many other much older Pagan “Sun-Gods” this fact becomes painfully obvious as I will show you in the following information.
Lets take a look for instance at the Kemetic god “Heru” also known as “Horus” in Greek.
Horus ( Egyptian God 3,000 b.c.). What do Horus and Jesus have in common?
~ Horus was baptized with water by Anup = Jesus baptized with water by John
~ Anup the Baptizer = John the Baptist
~ Aan the divine scribe = John the divine scribe
~ Horus born in Annu, the place of the bread = Jesus born in Bethlehem,
the house of bread
~ Horus the Good Shepherd = Jesus the Good Shepherd
~ The Seven on board the boat with Horus = The seven fishers on board the boat with Jesus
~ Horus the Lamb = Jesus the Lamb
~ Horus the Krst = Jesus the Christ
~ the trinity of Atum the Father, Horus the Son, and Ra the Holy Spirit = the trinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
~ Horus the sower and Set the destroyer in the harvestfield = Jesus the sower of the good seed and Satan the sower of tares
~ The Star, as the announcer of the child Horus = The Star indicating the birth of Jesus
~They are both are identified with the cross; both men of thirty years when baptized; both manifesting the Son of God; both children of Virgins and returned as the Son of the Father; both bringers of peace and eternal life; and both having twelve disciples or followers. This is less than 20 simularities between these 2 myths, there are actually almost 200 such simularities, so is the character of Jesus a copy of the Sun-God Heru/Horus?  Well I think this fact is pretty clear.

Lots more evidence like this on this site here: http://www.jesusmyth.homestead.com/index.html

Now unlike Christians which claim to have done so much research and have all found that the Bible is the inerrant word of god, they quite obviously have done no such thing, they have done nothing but brainwashed themselves into believing the Bible and nothing but Bible period, I on the other hand have in fact done a shitload of research for 30 years, I have read the Bible 3X cover to cover, first 2 times was prior to gaining knowledge of the Astrological origins of the Bible, the 1st 2 times it just made no sense to me at all, the way it was written, its structure, the context, the blatant errors, the myriad of contradictions all made no sense whatsoever, “Until” I read it the 3rd time after realizing its astrological roots and that the main character (Jesus) is really an allegory for the SUN. Then it all added up and made perfect sense.
here is a very easy to follow step by step description to use as a guide. Just read and click “next” there are 34 pages.
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/day.html

Bit more information on the Solar mythology of the Bible

http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/christ2002.htm

I have lots more information, this is just a start.

This is stupid.

Whoa, Nunya is back, just in time for Mithras’s birthday!  This oughta be good ...

Originally posted by ellie:
I relate it to looking so forward that you are of no present good.

My present good comes in the fact that I don’t allow battles for impersonal federal legislation to get in the way of my desire to affect people’s lives for the better on a personal level.

Originally posted by Socialist Swine:
Both you and Theo did personally and explicitly aim your disparaging comments to GM and Spocko.

I don’t believe I’ve made any disparaging comments.  The comment about his posts being irrelevant was just an observation.  Sorry if it came across as attacking.

Originally posted by Shelley:
Any Christian obligation to care for the disadvantaged of this world would seem to demand that you care about the kind of government elected: the effect of government on the poor is profound.

I do not trust human leaders.  I believe it is a law of human nature that absolute power corrupts absolutely.  I believe helping people personally is more effective than fighting through bureaucracy.  Governments, from my experience, have a profound negative effect on the poor.  As much wealth that can be set aside to take care of the poor it is not our first priority or it would show it by our actions.  If the US really cared about the poor then what are they doing giving money to the arts or to nature preserves?  They budget the money the way they do because it agrees with their priorities.  Their priorities are not mine and so I don’t associate with them.  I had several friends this summer go to Bangladesh in the middle of the flooding mess to help the urban poor.  The government of Bangladesh could help the people if they really wanted to but they are corrupted.  All the taxes they collect go to the politicians billfolds and they let Non-Governmental Organizations take care of all their problems.

Originally posted by OB:
Seems to me that God’s creation of Satan and the Fall of mankind are absolutely necessary, otherwise there’s no sin… and therefore no need for salvation, no need for Jesus.

By that logic sure.

Originally posted by John Hoke:
They also saw the serpent in Genesis as a Prometheus, bringing denied wisdom (fire) to mankind ... and like Prometheus, the serpent gets screwed for helping us out.

I don’t believe Satan was helping us out.  The Serpent gave us knowledge not wisdom.  The knowledge was our downfall.  It was the destruction of a perfect utopian society.  I personally would prefer to be naked in a garden wthout a care in the world, all the food to eat I could want, and a ‘suitable helper’ at my side than sit here studying for finals.

Originally posted by Spocko:
Nonsense. You started this thread fully basing this discussion of theocracy on one very specific god. I challenge the integrity of that alleged god and, tho I may be coarse at times, I think I was very much “on topic�.

I mean your posts are irrelevant because they would take this thread into a terribly large tangent on the integrity of God.  We can discuss the integrity of God later.  I would prefer to keep this topic focused on the merits of the ideas behind theocracy.

Nunyabiz, thanks for the links.  I look forward to reading them at some time.  I know everyone here is itchng to disprove the existence of God, but can we please keep this thread to the discussion of the merits of the ideas presented within theocracy.  ellie, Shelley and I seem to be the only ones left actually discussing the article.

I understood GM clarifying her points, & they make sense & I understood the original post to be cruel to theocrat rather than God.

As for common chromisomes...uh maybe, probably, I guess...whatever.  I thought Spocko irritated me just as much in a different way.  (He didn’t seem to get the connections in my point in his answer, I don’t really know how I can clarify them & think that if I do, it won’t help.) Aren’t many women on this site anyway.  Even though I disagree with Shana, I she doesn’t irritate me as much.  abortion pisses me off whenever anyone shows so little empathy for the fetus, & men generally stay out of that issue…

Nunyabiz, long time no post…

GM - I obviously don’t understand why you would bite your tongue around believers on other sites, I obviously bite my tongue over NOTHING ANYWHERE, although that’s because I don’t mind eating crow later, seems too much of a risk for most people

you’re having more trouble dealing with me...if you want to improve your experiences here

telling you what I think of the attitude in your posts is my way of “dealing” with you, & you assuming that my experiences in the site overall need improvement shows as much ignorance as if I had assumed ou had anything other than

great spouse, lovely daughters, good friends, good health, nice house ...happy and living well despite not believing in your god

All in all, I wish my brother were marrying someone more like you than the brainless fundie bimbo he is.

ellie,

I don’t believe I’ve made any disparaging comments.  The comment about his posts being irrelevant was just an observation.  Sorry if it came across as attacking.

Spocko and GM probably felt the same way about their posts.

Ah, Schweinchen, that was Theocrat and not our beloved ellie that you quoted.

Hiya GM & Elwed, thought id swing back by to see whats up.

Here a summary of the events that occurred in the “Jesus” story. He was born to a virgin by immaculate conception through the intervention of a holy spirit. This fulfilled an ancient prophecy. When he was born the ruling tyrant wanted to kill him. His parents had to flee to safety. All male children under the age of two were slain by the ruler as he sought to kill the child. Angels and shepherds were at his birth and he was given gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. He was worshipped as the savior of men and led a moral and humble life. He performed miracles which included healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, casting out devils and raising the dead. He was put to death on the cross between two thieves. He descended to hell and rose from the dead to ascend back to heaven.

Guess what? That is how the eastern savior God known as Virishna was described 1,200 years before “Jesus” is claimed to have been born. If you want a savior God who died so our sins could be forgiven, take your pick from the ancient world because there are a stream of them.

Here are just some of the “Son of God” heroes who play the lead role in stories which mirror those attributed to “Jesus” and almost all were worshipped long before “Jesus” was even heard of:

Krishna of Hindostan; Buddha Sakia of India; Salivahana of Bermuda; Ausar(Osiris) and Heru(Horus) son of the virgin Isis of Kemet(Egypt); Odin of Scandinavia; Crite of Chaldea; Zoroaster of Persia; Baal and Taut of Phoenicia; Indra of Tibet; Bali of Afghanistan; Jao of Nepal; Wittoba of Bilingonese; Tammuz of Syria and Babylon; Attis of Phyrgia; Xamolxis of Thrace; Zoar of the Bonzes; Adad of Assyria; Beddru of Japan; Bremrillahm of the Druid; Cadmus of Greece; Gentaut and Quezalcoatl of Mexico; Fohi and Tien of China; Adonis, son of virgin lo, of Greece.

If you research Jesus’ prototypes, what you’ll find is that they were not to be taken literally as individuals. They were all symbolic stories about the sun’s cycles and its affect on creation. It’s no coincidence that the birth of Jesus picked to be on December 25th; and his resurrection on March 25th. All of the above mentioned were said to be born December 25th and resurrected March 25th. What’s the significance of December 25th and March 25th? Well during the fall season the night out last day light. On December 25th the sun is said to be born, because that’s when daylight begins to lengthen. Prior to December 25th daylight continues to shorten. March 25th is said to be the second birth because that’s when day(light) over takes night(darkness). Then everything that died during the fall, is resurrected. Jesus being called a lamb is zodiac symbolism. March 25th, which was the original day that the resurrection was celebrated on, is associated with the zodiac symbol of Aries. What’s the symbol of Aries? A ram. What’s a ram? A full grown lamb. Although the date of Easter is no longer fixed to the first day of Aries, the symbolism remains. Are you beginning to see the picture? Christianity is simply a disguised pagan religion, that practices sun worship, like the other so-called monotheistic religions. When do they worship? SUNday. In my research for the truth, I’ve found no credible evidence, outside of religious text, whatsoever for the existence of Jesus. No archeological evidence, no written evidence, nothing. As a matter of fact, Nazareth didn’t exist during the time that Jesus was supposedly walking the earth. The name doesn’t appear in any of the detailed Roman records, nor in any books, writings or documents of any kind relating to the period covered by the gospels.

King Solomon and his temple are more symbolism. There is no historical evidence for the existence of a man called Solomon, except in the texts produced by the Levites. The Levites were a group of Hebrew priests that began to write a manufactured history, during the 6th century BC, which obscured the truth. During and after their stay in Babylon, this is when the Jews learned Astrology & Numerology from the Magi which is where the Jewish cabal & Torah come from with its wealth of inherited knowledge and stories from Sumer, the Levites mixed truth, often symbolic truth, with fantasies and this concoction became the foundations of the Old Testament. The Levites were a bunch of human sacrificing, blood drinking fanatics; and they compiled the law which Jewish people to this day are supposed to follow. Likewise many Christians fanatics quote these texts as the word of God. The Sumerian Tablets prove beyond question that Genesis was a much edited and condensed version of Sumer records. The Sumerian story of Edin became the Levite’s biblical Garden of Eden. Remember the story of “Moses” being found in the bulrushes by the Egyptian princess? The same story was told by the Sumerians. According to the Levites, Moses was given his laws and commandments by God on to of a mountain. Speaking of which the 10 commandments are Kemetic in origin also, Admonitions of Ma’at , http://anu-world.com/id9.html

One reason for this is that the top of a mountain is closer to their symbol of God, the sun. Mount Sion means Sun Mountain. The sun rising over the eastern mountains is still a major symbol today. The Ancient Egyptians symbolized the sun rising in the east as Horus, their Son of God. Hence we have the term hori-zon or Horus is rising. When the sun was going down at dusk, it was symbolized as Set. Set was the Egyptian symbol for the force of darkness; hence sunset. There is no historical evidence for the existence of a man called Moses, except in the texts produced by Levites and other writings and opinions stimulated by these texts. So where did the name Moses come from? Every initiated person who attained the highest rank in the Egyptian mystery schools was called a Muse, Mose or Moses. Manetho, an Egyptian historian, from the third century BC, quoted by the Jewish historian Josephus, says that he was a priest at Heliopolis or ON (Place of the Sun), and afterwards he was given the title of Moshe or Moses. Moshe is the Hebrew, in Kemetic which is the parent language of Hebrew it is MU-SHA which means MU = “sea” and SHA = “reeds” so that the biblical Moses is literally the Sea of Reeds.

The three syllables in Sol-Om-On are all names for the sun in three languages. Sol (Latin for Sun) Om (Sanskrit for Sun) On (Coptic for Sun). Not once does Solomon’s name appear in any inscriptions before the levites wrote their texts. A Greek historian named Herodotus (485-425 BC), traveled and researched the lands and history of Egypt and the near East. He heard nothing of the empire of Solomon. Nor did Plato in his travels to the same area. Solomon and his wives and concubines were symbolic of the planets, moons, asteroids and other receptive bodies within his house (the solar mansion). Solomon’s Temple is symbolic of the domain of the Sun. The book of Kings and Chronicles, which recount the building of Solomon’s Temple, were written between 500 to 600 years after the events they are supposed to be describing.

The ancients also symbolized the sun as a baby in December, a youth at Easter, an immensely strong man by the summer, an aging man losing his power in the autumn, and an old man by the winter solstice. They also symbolized the sun as having long golden hair (sun rays) which got shorter as he lost his power in the months of autumn. Now look at the old testament story of Samson (Sam-sun) He was incredibly strong and had long hair, but he lost his power when is hair was cut. The problems started when he entered the House of Delilah, the astrological house of Virgo, the virgin, through which the sun passes as autumn approaches. Samson is a symbolic story of the sun’s annual cycle. There wasn’t any such person. In Hebrew, Samson means: “Little-Sun”

The number “666” is the number of the Sun-Square, which has 12 factors; just as the Sun has 12 signs of the zodiac; and as Solomon is king of the 12 tribes of Israel. A common theme in all esoteric school traditions is of 12 tribes, disciples, knights or followers surrounding a deity. The number 12 is a code, among other things, for the 12 months of they year and houses of the zodiac through which symbolically travels the Sun symbolized as 13. This is the sacred 12 and 1, as some people describe it, and it is one major reason why the numbers 12 and 13 reoccur. Thus you have the 12 tribes of Israel, 12 princes of Ishmael, 12 disciples or followers of Jesus, Buddha, Osiris, and Quetzalcoatl etc. There is also King Arthur and his 12 knights of the round table (the zodiac circle); and the woman (Isis/Semiramis) with a crown of 12 stars in the Book of Revelation.

The numbers 7 and 40 are also code numbers in the Bible and other esoteric texts. In the Bible we have 7 spirits of God, 7 churches of Asia, 7 golden candlesticks, 7 stars, 7 lamps of fire, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 angels, 7 thunders; then the red dragon with 7 heads and 7 crowns. The story of Jericho has Joshua marching his army around the city for 7 days, accompanied by 7 priests carrying 7 trumpets. On the 7th day they circled Jericho 7 times and the walls came tumbling down. In the story of Noah, 7 pairs of each animal go into the ark and 7 pairs of each type of bird. There are 7 days between the prediction of the flood and the rain; and 7 days between the sending of doves. The ark comes to rest on the 17th day of the 7th month. After the flood Noah begins his 7th century. Then there’s 40. Adam enters Paradise when he is 40 years old; Eve follows 40 years later; during the flood it rains 40 days and 40 nights; Seth is carried away by angels when he is 40 and is not seen for 40 days; Moses is 40 when he goes to Midian and he stays for 40 years; Joseph is 40 years old when Jacob arrives in Egypt; Jesus goes into the wilderness for 40 days. These stories are not literally true, they are esoteric school symbolism. The religious hierarchy, which are esoteric school initiates, know that scripture is based on numerology and astrology; but teach the religiously blinded believer to shun numerology and astrology. They are taught to take this literally; thus you have people, willing to argue, fight, kill, and die over symbolic things. They got Christians mad at Jews about a crucifixion, that did not happen; and Muslims arguing with Christians over what “Jesus” meant about the Comforter (the Sun). More blood has been shed in the name of religion than for anything else. Forget money, the love for lack of knowledge is the root of evil; and religion is designed to place believing (ignorance) above knowing. It encourages ignorance, fear, and hatred. Like the slavemaster, they use fear to keep the believer shackled in religious bondage. The symbolic hell fire has the believer terrified of being open minded to anything that contradicts their beliefs. An example of the hatred that it fuels would be the Talmud of the Jews (the same people quick to holler anti-Semitism). Here’s a few quotes:

“Just the Jews are humans, the non-Jews are no humans, but cattle.”

“The non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves.”

“The birth rate of non-Jews has to be suppressed massively.”

I guess you can call this anti-non-Semitism. Now getting back to symbolism. As I’ve stated previously that Jesus being crucified on a cross beam in the Gospels did not literally happened. Archeological evidence, from that period, finds no crosses; but instead stone coffins are opened, unearthed by archeologists, revealing bodies still nailed to stakes or poles, not crosses. So where did the cross symbol come from? The ancients used a particular symbol to describe the sun’s annual cycle. This symbol is called the circle of the zodiac (a Greek word for animal circle). Within the circle they inserted a vertical and horizontal line, a cross, to mark the four seasons. At the center of the cross, they placed the Sun. Leonardo da Vinci, the grand master of the Priory of Sion (Sun), used this same symbol in his famous painting of the Last Supper. He divided the 12 disciples into four groups of three with Jesus in the center. To understand Sun symbolism is to understand the major religions. The Bible reads that Jesus was crucified (died) between two thieves. Well, people were not crucified for theft which makes the two thieves another symbol. The two thieves represent two zodiac signs. How is that? First we must realize Jesus is a personification of the Sun.
According to the ancients, the Sun symbolically comes to its death at the winter solstice. Death is marked by motionlessness and solstice means, according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, to stand still or pause. The winter solstice begins December 22nd every year. The Sun is at its weakest state during that time. December 22nd is the transition from Sagittarius to Capricorn, the two thieves, which symbolically “robs” the Sun of its power. The Sun is at its lowest point, and we know that hell is low, of trajectory (the angle of its rays) at that time. This is biblically symbolized by Jesus descending into hell. The word solstice is used because the Sun “stands still” at that trajectory for 3 days. After 3 days, on December 25th, it begins to rise (ascend into the heavens) northward again. Next the Sun (Jesus) enters the zodiac house of Aquarius (the water bearer) or John the Baptist, and gets baptized in water. Then the Sun enters the zodiac house of Pisces (the fish), which is personified by Jesus finding his first followers (fishermen). You also have Gemini being personified by Judas, the two faced disciple. The Bible tells us at age 12 (noon) Jesus was doing his father’s work in the temple, worshipping the “Most High.” The Sun was at the heart of ancient Egyptian religion and at 12 noon when the Sun was at its peak, of its daily cycle, they prayed to the ”Most High.” This is still practiced in Islam. Muslims pray at 12 noon, also at Sunrise, and Sunset. Coincidence?
If you think this is all just a coincidence then I have a nice Bridge overlooking some prime swampland I will sell ya cheap.

Excellent report Nunyabiz!
Good to see you back.

Thanks also for the links.
I was just reading something similar on The US Bible.

Thanks Spocko.

That’s a nice site you listed will add it to the 100s I have on the subject.
Yeah there really is no doubt as to the Astrological origins of the bible and virtually ALL religion for that matter.

The amount of verifiable information on this is, well, “Astronomical”.
There are mountains of valid, archeological evidence, dated & translated text, etc. that state VERY clearly that Jesus is merely an Allegory for the Sun.

As far as Im concerned personally, this positively proves well beyond any reasonable doubt that there was no historical Jesus, therefore there is no basis for Christianity.
It also proves the non existence of any alleged God in factual reality which is where I reside.
Gods will always exist in the feeble minds of the religiously deluded which is rather pitiful.

Spocko and Nunya - Very interesting reading there.  Thanks! 

About 2012 the sun will enter the Age of Aquarius. Then it can be said that the Age of Jesus has past.

Any speculation as to what nonsense will fill the void in 2013?

Gods will always exist in the feeble minds of the religiously deluded which is rather pitiful.

That leads to another part of the religion trap. The priests, chiefs, shaman, etc. who chose to twist this important astronomical information into a weapon of control over those feeble minds. On top of this are the True Believersâ„¢ who, by their very fanaticism, perpetuate their own self-delusion.

Fascinating.

Any speculation as to what nonsense will fill the void in 2013?

As long as it’s not theocracy I’m good!

Nunya- welcome back.  Nice research- it is pretty obvious that the roots of Christianity are highly derivative.  One niggle-

Now down to factual reality, Im one of those Atheist that has to MY satisfaction, proven beyond any shadow of any doubt that no God of ANYKIND exist in reality.

It depends upon what you mean by “proof”.  It’s one thing to prove, say, that the concentration of NaCl in a solution is less than 50%, and quite another thing to prove the nonexistence of a supernatural being.  If Occam’s Razor is sufficient disproof for you, I would agree that God is disproven, as is Santa Claus, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and the theory that the sun will rise in the west on December 24, 2004.  I don’t believe in God any more than you do, but I wouldn’t say that I have proof He doesn’t exist.  Doesn’t matter to me- I can live without the proof, just as I can live without the proof that mushrooms are not alien mind-control agents.

theo said: I know everyone here is itching to disprove the existence of God, but can we please keep this thread to the discussion of the merits of the ideas presented within theocracy.  ellie, Shelley and I seem to be the only ones left actually discussing the article.

Theo, think for a minute about who is here commenting.  As I said before, if you want a discussion of your idea on its merits, better go to a Christian site.  Of course unfundies are going to object to the premise of your argument, that the Bible is the Word of God.  Do you think you can allow only fundies to board this thread so you can hijack it to Eden?

Theo, let me be clear here about my own position: I see no evidence whatsoever of god/gods hand anywhere on earth or anywhere else (I do science, Theo—show me the goods if you want to convince me).

If (huge IF) s/he/it ever WAS around, it would seem s/he/it has pretty much left us on our own. And since we appear to be on our own, government is about the best we have for helping large numbers of people.

Working for the poor/disadvantaged on an individual level is fine, good, and necessary; but the quality of the government elected has a real consequence for the lives of the people under it and you’ve neither convinced me that this is NOT the case nor have you convinced me that it should be abandoned.

You’ve offered up Bangaladesh as a (particularly evil) example of goverments’ hands in caring for the poor. I could easily argue that there are a number of governments that have done a much better job of it. (Notwithstanding any resources devoted to things you personally do not find enriching.)

I suppose we should all just hang until s/he/it comes back to make the world perfect? Personally, I’d just as soon fight for a government that I believe will best care for the disadvantaged of the country than sit back on my thumb and wait for the return of someone who will fix everything.

What do you intend to do while you wait for this theocracy of yours?

I nominate Nunya’s post for the SEB FAQ, Les.  (Maybe with a bit of the vituperation trimmed out; the references speak for themselves.)

I didn’t know about the Zodiac connection—fascinating.  And Spocko, remember the ST episode “Bread and Circuses,” where the sun worshipers turned out to be Christians?  How revealing is that?

I second that nomination!

Yes, I remember planet 892-IV. I would concur with the captain…

“An excellent example of Hodgkin’s Law of Parallel Planet Development.”

Originally posted by zilch:
Of course unfundies are going to object to the premise of your argument, that the Bible is the Word of God.  Do you think you can allow only fundies to board this thread so you can hijack it to Eden?

Then disagree, I’m just saying I don’t want this thread to become unrelated to theocracy.  Nunyabiz could have made his point with 1/10th the evidence.  If someone does a video game thread and says these are some things they should have done to improve the video game, I can pretend I care about video gaming long enough to disagree with them and say no these changes would have been better for certain reasons.  I guess that was the kind of conversation i was hoping for.

Shelley, part of the philosophy I was hoping would get more notice in the article was the fact that I certainly support the idea of governments helping people, there is enough wealth in this world to go around, but because of our natural selfishness no government can do enough to impact the poverty of the world.  World wide Communism would be great, but its not enough because the power would corrupt the leaders.  In waiting for theocracy I intend to do exactly what I’ve planned.  I believe I can do a better job than any human government at helping the world and the only government able to do a better job than I would be a direct theocracy.  Until that theocracy comes I will not support the corruption of anyone and continue on trying my best to do what I can for the world.

Then disagree, I’m just saying I don’t want this thread to become unrelated to theocracy.

Thread drift happens.

Chris said: Theocracy isn’t the actual rule by God; it is the rule of people that claim to be doing the will of God by following a strict religious code.

Nothing needed to said after this comment.

deadscot,

Ah, Schweinchen, that was Theocrat and not our beloved ellie that you quoted.

You’re right, I’ll endeavor not to get people mixed up again

All is forgiven, DOF.

Here a summary of the events that occurred in the “Jesus� story. He was born to a virgin by immaculate conception through the intervention of a holy spirit.

I’m probably picking nits here, but the term ‘immaculate conception’ refers to Mary’s conception, not Jesus’s.  My catholic grandparents were particularly bothered by this misconception typically repeated by the ‘evil’ protestants.  I was a little too young at the time to see it was a not so subtle dig at my Luthern mother.

Nunyabiz could have made his point with 1/10th the evidence.

And yet I could present 1000X the evidence all irrefutable & verifiable and you & all other born again Christians would completely deny it all correct?

You see this is what Atheist can not understand.

You show any one of us (Atheist) here even a single shred of verifiable evidence to show your alleged bogeyman exist and we are all ears.
You could convince me in a heartbeat, I’ll gladly accept any evidence you present as long as it is factual, verifiable, & Falsifiable.
In 30 years of extensive research Iv seen absolutely zilch, would like nothing better than for you to enlighten me.

Meanwhile I can continue with hard tangible factual evidence that clearly proves “beyond a reasonable doubt” that no such person as Jesus ever existed, the evidence & in some cases “lack” of evidence is overwhelming.
For instance are you aware of a REAL person by the name of Apollonius of Tyana?

This is the real person whom the entirely fictional Jesus was made up to replace.

http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/apollonius.html

http://www.apollonius.net/foreword.html

This is yet another bit of verifiable information, all very well documented that makes the case against any alleged Jesus as being real, virtually airtight.
Its the greatest story ever sold and the biggest hoax perpetrated against mankind in all of history. Do you honestly have any idea what horrors Christianity has wrought on this planet in the last 2000 years? All the lost knowledge, all the ancient cultures virtually wiped clean, the Millions upon Millions of totally innocent human beings brutally murdered, how much further behind we probably are a species because of 2000 years of tyrannical stupifaction just to keep the hoax alive.
You want a “Theocracy”? may I ask why?

Theocracies are just Totalitarian oppressive dictatorships, what the hell would anyone want to wish such horrors on themselves or others for?

Also when I can prove within a 99.99% probablity that no such person as Jesus existed which by default proves no such being as God (Christian God at least) exist, then the very basis for “Theocracy” is entirely moot.