They called them the Dark Ages for a reason....yes, God is angry at you and he wants you to have all those pus-filled boils… U_U’ I don’t know who came up with that statement but it’s really a death sentence for those who abide by it.

Les: Your animus towards the Church prevents rational discussion of the issue of condom use, AIDS, and the Vatican.  There is ample evidence to support the Church’s position.  I will make one observation: Even a brief glance at history shows the rampant, and ever increasing, sexual promiscuity that has coincided with widespread availability of contraceptives.  This phenomenon certainly is germain to the discussion of how to stop the spread of STDs.  The abuse crisis (representative of less than one percent of clergy) in the Church is a terrible nightmare.  Your use of the crisis to detract from the centuries old wisdom conserved by the Church is unwarranted.  When the good of sexual love ceases to be viewed as recreation, but rather as the most intimate, totally self-giving, mutual monogamous love between husband and wife, then the world will be free from many a sexual horror.

There is no evidence to support the church’s position that latex condoms will allow the AIDS virus to pass through. They are directly contradicting a well-established fact about condom use and AIDS prevention and are in fact lying to people in some cases in suggesting that the condoms have been laced with the AIDS virus. You show me what ample evidence they have to make a claim like that.

Do I have animus toward the Church? Damn straight I do. There is no justifiable excuse for the decades old cover-up of sexual abuse that was tolerated in the Catholic church. If you ask me the Church’s “centuries old wisdom” ain’t worth two shits if it isn’t enough to tell them that priests molesting children is a “bad thing” that shouldn’t be covered up and allowed to continue for decades. My point in bringing it up is that the “Church” obviously has some fucked up priorities if all they’re going to do is put people’s lives at risk over and over again. Be that risk from their own priests molesting children to their outright blatant lies about the usefulness of condoms in preventing STDs.

Should people be less promiscuous? Yes, that’d probably be nice, but until everyone cleans up their act it doesn’t do ANYONE any good to discourage them from using protection that would prevent the spread of one of major diseases of our age. It’s idiotic and your attempted defense of the Church is just as idiotic. But thanks for sharing.

Steve-

“When the good of sexual love ceases to be viewed as recreation...” Yeah, this is just going to happen if we ban all contraceptives right?  Why don’t you wake up and start living in reality instead of some little fantasy world of what should be or what could be? 

Of course if sex was limited to completely monogamous relationships we would have far less STD’s, but get real, sex is not limited to this, and it never has been, and never will be.  The only way that will happen is if all people suddenly start living up to your pie in the sky vision of humanity.  Forgive me if I am wrong, but unfaithfulness, pre-marital sex, homosexuality, etc., etc, ad nauseum, occur in the Catholic Church too.  So I guess the church doesn’t have the best track record? 

Oh, I forgot about god (I tend to do that a whole bunch, like all the time ).  Well, you do realize that the whole law of god in the Old Testament was a set up to show us how flawed we all are, right?  Nobody presumes, in the New Testament anyway, that people can even live a perfect life.  It doesn’t discourage trying, but encourages us to realize the truth of our flawed nature.  I am an athiest, and I agree with the bible that much anyway.  That said, your ideas about sex are a tad bit out of date, not to mention out of touch with reality.

Proving the Catholic church is led by schmucks who have their heads stuck up their asses

I’m going to duck to avoid the shit fest that’s about to ensue after leading a post with that :ignore:

I do believe there is a God. So with that said, I must state that sex will never be the ritual between people bounded by Holy Matrimony solely.. The bible has a wonderful way of explaining this but not all of us know all the rules so does that me I die and the goody-two-shoes don’t?  Is the church now playing ‘it’s my turn to scare”?  Help people don’t screw with them!!!!  Or one of these days the “real” people will disappear and it is going to awfully lonely around here!

I hate to be the gutteral voice of sexual common sense here (okay, I don’t hate it) but let’s face facts...sex feels great. I would venture to say that it probably rates #1 on most people’s lists of what feels really, really good. And did I mention that you don’t even need another person to participate? Granted that is far less satisfying than having someone else there, but it still beats a tasty meal. And for the most part it is free.

The only way you are going to be able to stem the tide of evil sexual congress (that which falls outside of the blessed union of heterosexual marriage) you are going to have to castrate all males chemically until they wed. It is...uh, hey! Shit...I have just gone totally blind!

Anyhow, the church is simply employing the same techniques that the Bush administration (yay Karl Rove!) has been using to great effect - bald faced lies. The Vatican is not trying to invade another country but in the end though their lies will end up killing far more people who will probably leave behind millions of Aids infected orphans.

You go Pontiff!

Genesis:
“And Adam knew his wife; and she conceived.” This is the first sexual intercourse mentioned in the Bible. Of course it resulted in a baby boy. 4:1

“And Cain knew his wife.” That’s nice, but where the hell did she come from? The Bible doesn’t mention any of Cain’s sisters. Well, maybe he married his mom. In any case, Cain and the mysterious Mrs. Cain have a son (another blue cigar!). His name is Enoch and he builds a city (population 3). 4:17

“And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son.” Way to go Adam! 4:25

Sarai is the first of a long line of barren women who were desperate for children. (In the Bible, it is the women who are barren, never the men.) She sends Abram into her handmaid, Hagar, so that she can ”obtain children by her.” Abram gladly complies. 16:1-4

God establishes his covenant with Abram: “This is my covenant ... every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin.” It seems that penises are supremely important to god. 17:10-11, 23-24

Lot and his daughters camp out in a cave for a while. The daughters get their “just and righteous” father drunk, and have sexual intercourse with him, and each conceives and bears a son (wouldn’t you know it!). Just another wholesome family values Bible story. 19:30-38

And that’s just a few bits. IMNSHO, it’s nothing more than a badly written book chock full of contradictions and bullshit.

Yes, you don’t see the Catholic church shouting out in defence of incest, do you, but It’s In The God Damn Bible!

I find it hilarious that half the world believes that there’s a guy up in the sky who gives a shit about your sex life. I find it hilarious and also worrying at the same time - because they are the same bastards I’m going to be working with for the rest of my life.

Okay, let’s assume for a second that the Vatican is right.  The latex in condoms is full of holes that are larger than the HIV virae.  Now, armed with that knowledge, the Vatican has a couple of choices: A) Tell everyone that condoms don’t prevent the spread of aids, B) Help fund research to make better condoms, or C) Come up with a non-prophylactic means of preventing the transmission of HIV.  I mean, the Vatican is rich.  It’s not like they couldn’t fund a study or two if they felt like it.

But they don’t feel like it.  They are more interested in furthering their dogma than they are in preserving human life at the expense of it.

“the Catholic church is led by schmucks who have their heads stuck up their asses”

This isn’t a case of the church being schmucks - it’s far worse than that.

They are lying in order to scare people into falling behind their doctrine - a doctrine which is more important to them than either length of quality of human life. They know they are lying and they know that people are going to contract HIV and die from AIDS as a result of their lies.

I heard about this two days ago and I’m still sickened.

I grew up in N. Ireland as a protestant “that helped me find my way to atheism!! I thought we had it bad until I got talking to a catholic girl, this was in 1987 we were both 17 at the time, anyway long story short we were dicussing sex education as you do… and she told me that the nuns that ran the school she had attended (which I won’t name)told the girls that if they had protected sex they would grow a yellow beard!!!
This was happening in N.Ireland in the Eighties for Fuck sake, never mind the third world. Nothing like keeping the blinkered , blinkered… eh
P.S didn’t post this to knock catholics they all suck,I can still quote passages from the bible cause it was kicked in to me as a kid,
(end note)
Its all a bag of shite!
Have a good one people

And the last Magdalene Convent didn’t close until 1996.

How sick do you want to get?

PS. It was Anglicanism that drove me to atheism.

I too am opposed to the cheapening of the sex act by people all over the world. Sinners, all! Everyone knows that God intended for sex to be a beautiful, intimate experience between a man and his altarboy…

[SNORT!]

I wondered where you were going with that.

I posted the link to this article on a message board I frequent, asking for any sort of explanation. The board is known to contain at least two very devout Catholics who I have gone to the mat with recently on other topics.

I got no comment. You could almost hear the crickets chirping…

Regarding your stupid and vulgar comments on Aids
and Condoms vis a vis the Vatican, you’re taking an awful lot out of context. Also, do you really think that that super black man in Nairobi is going to be that careful in using a condom that he is going to pause and see if it is applied correctly. Pullleeeze ! You are the schmuck with his head up his ass and your site shows that in a thousand ways. Next.....If you were to fall overboard from a fast moving ship and found yourself alone, cold and frightened, I’d bet a month’s pay you’d call out to God to save your sorry ass. .....and thats the rest...of the story dude.  Love Jack

I call out to God and Jeebus all the time-- usually when I’m coming, but I don’t think that cheapens the experience.  It’s not like I actually expect them to show up.  It’s just sort of traditional to give a shout out the the mythical dude upstairs when you’re in the throes of ecstacy.

And as for the desert island scenario, I might mutter Goddamnit, but I would probably mutter Shit about the same number of times.  I doubt either would do much to save my ass, but that wouldn’t prevent me from saying it.  On the other hand, if either showed up to save me, I’d become properly worshipful, and devote the rest of my life to spreading their gospel.  Be it biblical, or studded with chunks of peanut.

Regarding your stupid and vulgar comments on Aids
and Condoms vis a vis the Vatican, you’re taking an awful lot out of context.

Please enlighten me.

Also, do you really think that that super black man in Nairobi is going to be that careful in using a condom that he is going to pause and see if it is applied correctly. Pullleeeze !

Deluded and bigoted. What a wonderful combination. Your parents must be proud.

You are the schmuck with his head up his ass and your site shows that in a thousand ways.

Says the man who posted his comment three times in a row because he couldn’t figure out how to work a simple web form properly. Try not to look like an idiot when telling others how stupid they are.

Oh, and no need to thank me for deleting the two redundant posts.

Next…..If you were to fall overboard from a fast moving ship and found yourself alone, cold and frightened, I’d bet a month’s pay you’d call out to God to save your sorry ass. …..and thats the rest…of the story dude. Love Jack

You lose that bet. Pay up.

Heh, with my luck he’s probably an unemployed former priest currently under investigation…

No, I’m a retired Naval Submarine officer who
will tell you that he has never spoken to any
seaman that hasn’t believed in a God. You lose,
but I’m sure you haven’t got the balls to own up.!
Jack

100 men go down.  50 couples come up.

Whoa Brother Jack

I missed your enlightened comment before…you done got ma dander up squiddly!

Also, do you really think that that super black man in Nairobi is going to be that careful in using a condom that he is going to pause and see if it is applied correctly. Pullleeeze !

If you had said some dumbass squid submariner on shore leave with 23 beers in him who bops the first bus station skank he finds wouldn’t be careful enough to put on a condom, well I could see that.

Is it true that the motto of the submariners is:

Throw your rubbers overboard; there’s no one here but men?

That’s what they told us in that little service called the USAF, which I am retired from.  We also didn’t understand why you boys had so many different names for your ships, like aircraft carrier, destroyer, cruiser, frigate, and submarine (oops, submarine is a boat right?).  In the USAF we just called them targets!  Sometimes we would call that aircraft carrier thing a BIG target and something like a frigate a little target, but we never really saw a need to classify them any further than that.  Why do they call you guys semen?  Doesn’t it piss you off that they call you the same name as male ejaculate?  I’d be pissed

JAFO Jack,

Well, “sir”, you obviously never spent time on my boat, and your disdain for the enlisted class who you depended on for your life underway is apparent by your grouping us all as “seamen.” I’m guessing you were a supply officer; I doubt if you would have been very well tolerated in the engine room with me.

However, if you had come back to Upper Level to have a chat with me regarding your beliefs and mine, you would have learned that I had no problem being an atheist and a submariner.  Doing five knots to nowhere, 400 feet deep, off the gulf of Alaska on a midwatch, you have plenty of time to think.  I would have been happy to have a reasonable discussion with you, if that had been your intent, but from your comments here, I suspect the reasoning would have been one-sided.  You would have doubtless chalked my lack of faith up to the ignorance of the enlisted man, even one with a 140 IQ.

I am very proud of my time in service, and I’m saddened that a fellow submariner would be so intolerant.  If there’s anything that environment teaches you, it is tolerance...provided you are willing to learn.

Again, always amazed by those who claim to follow Christ, who use him as a template for their lives (supposedly), and who steadfastly refuse to actually model their lives after him.  First remove the beam from thine own eye, Jack.

That MM1(SS) Skippy to you, pal.

No, I’m a retired Naval Submarine officer who
will tell you that he has never spoken to any
seaman that hasn’t believed in a God. You lose,
but I’m sure you haven’t got the balls to own up.!

Well, Jack, looks like you must not have socialized a whole helluva lot as the comment just before this one proves quite well. I think I’ll use a common God-exists defense on you: “Just because you’ve never spoken to a seaman who didn’t believe in God doesn’t mean those seamen don’t exist!”

So, once again, you lose asshole.

Hey Skip

The Navy is cool by me.  I was just hacking on his Excellency Commodore Jack, who apparently is an honor graduate of the David Duke School of Racial Studies.  I had very little use for officers while I was in; especially those who used their rank as an extension of their miniscule pee pees.

Full steam ahead and all that nautical crap

Bill,

I took no offense from you; I have virtually no knowledge of the USAF, and profess none.  I wouldn’t expect you to be up on Naval distinctions.

For those of you who are curious as to my objection to the term “seamen”, a Seaman is a rank, technically E3, but common parlance for anyone E3 and below. 

There are perhaps 10 crewmen on board a typical submarine of this rank; about the same as the number of officers.  Another 10 or so are CPO’s (Chief Petty Officers, and I’m including the Senior and Master ranks in here as well.)

The rest of the crew (80 to 110, depending on boat type and mission) are Petty Officers, of varying distinction (E4 thru E6).  You would no more call a Petty Officer a Seaman than you would refer to a Lieutenant Colonel (O5) as a Lieutenant(O2)...unless you are a Senator in the middle of the Iran-Contra hearings.

Sorry for the off-topic rant, folks.  I have a great deal of respect for most officers and enlisted of any service, provided they continue to earn it.  It is not an entitlement.  Jack seems to have forgotten this.