Followed by eternal damnation?

Whatever.

I don’t buy that kind of fire insurance.

Sorry, Gijnabar, but you are probably one of the least convincing Holly Rollers ever to visit SEB. Certainly you’ve got a lot of the club conversation points down pretty well, but that’s about all you have.

...z z z z zzzzzzzzzz......…

Huh, oh sorry, I nodded off for a moment there. Now what was I saying…

Oh yeah Gijnabar...I would really like you to explain WHY you believe what you......

SNOOOOOOORE.....z z z zzzzzzzzzzzzz....mmmmm donuts!....zzzzzzzzzzzzz...…

Jerry Falwell said that those who have their trust in Jesus Christ are not afraid of death. Yeah right. Why bother looking both ways when crossing the street? What a twit.

Socialist Swine, I really hate to be a nitpicker out Jesus is a transliteration of the Greek Ιησους, itself a transliteration of a Hebrew word meaning ‘YHWH saves’, or ‘Jah is mighty’.

And it’s not ‘Kristos’, but ‘Khristos’. Kristos is a different word, I believe.

Man, I am anal.

Ahh.. the faulty infectious desease of life. It spreads its spawn worlds over leaving behind only the stench of what once was. Death is an interesting thing Gij, From the moment you are born you are on your way. As cellular division increases the small amount of fat at the end of each strand of DNA decreases in effect slowing the rate of division for each successive cell thereafter. Aging is only a byproduct of cellular division gone by and the body’s inability to keep up with it’s losses. Eventually each life
reaches its end in turn. There isn’t anything to earn or merit here. Living for a happily ever afterlife is a horrible waste of what you claim to have had “given to you”. I know where I came from along with a majority of folks on this planet. I was an accident, so were all of my siblings. A simple byproduct of sweaty, dirty, nasty, howling piggie sex. I’m just glad it wasn’t missionary christian sex that brought me about. Now that would have been a waste of effort. Im pretty sure they didnt have to earn a right to make me therefore I can go out free of charge at any time.

Dont waste your life on bullshit. just go get a porno, smoke another doobie, eat your cheetos and jack off like the rest of us. Contemplate the meaning of life, trow out the bullshit you come up with, get a job & keep it, pay your fucking taxes and die. Thats your entitlement and mine. Live with it.

Elwed,
You don’t want the kind of assurance offered to you by Christ, The Son of the Maker?

You have a sort of contract’ with Nietzsche’s, master in the infernel realm? You think they will honor it? You might, but they won’t, read my reply to Ooayn’s comment below for what they will realy be doing to you.

Ooayn,

had a round with these guys last week at the waterfront and they said that it was all water under the bridge. They worked out a deal with god and they get to pick wich pussies they get to tourture in “the hereafter�. Honest, cross my heart and hope to fucking die if I’m lying. It was spookie-dookie.

You’re not trying to imply that has something to do with me? Not going to happen to me, I’m with Christ now and going to Heaven.
Do you know why you are aware of what you was just talking about? Because that is your fate, if you don’t repent. Yep, you think it’s a little joke you made up from deep in your subconscience? Nope, Thats your prophecy of your afterlife.
That deal you mention with God and the devils(fallen angels) concerns those of us who are seriously evil, cuss while blaspheming and base our fortunes on earth on the misfortunes of others. Yes, there is a Hell for people like you and it’s waiting for you. You either are aware of it and think you are protected by some kind of other god(fallen angel, they hate you and will not help you, you will be at their mercy) or are oblivious to it, blinded by the sins you repeatedly commit against your fellow man everyday.
I have a theory, that if you have nightmares you are going to Hell. I don’t have nightmares anymore and will never have them again, hope you don’t.
Hell is like floating in shark infested water, think about it. You are unable to move in Hell, frozen like a statue while things hurt you repeatedly, falling, burning, freezing, screaming in anguish, remembering those who were good to you and regretting losing them, being alone. Love is in Heaven, there is no joy in Hell. Tormented by your memories, regrets and shame for your failures and iniquities, it’s to late to repent in Hell, you will be screaming for God to help you, crying for Jesus and I hope He does help you, if I could do something for you I would, but you are evil and if I went to help you you would insult me, grab me and try to hold me down. Like in the shark infested water you would grab me and we would both go under. I will not be strong enough to help you. I will be in Heaven unaware of your pain, and will not hear your screams.
In Hell are the lost souls that do bad things to people, so you are telling me you deserve to go there, so go there then. If that’s what you are, but why? You have a chance now while still alive to find a way out of paying for the sins of all mankind, why do you want to go there and pay for the sins of the devil? You accept the devil’s sin and so you will pay for it, unless you repent it and then you can go back to the way we was meant to be when we were first created before being tainted by Satan’s foul sin.

Why are atheists afraid of death?

Where the fuck did you get this? The only one even mentioning fear ... in this thread is you.

To be fair to G, I did mention my fear of death (I’m still hoping for Les to answer my related question in that post, BTW).

I fear it because, obviously, its the anti-thesis of life, a life I love.

Trying once more to get G to understand: I/we don’t fear what comes AFTER death. There is nothing afterward. I fear that my life itself ends.

I actually WISH I could believe in some kind of afterlife. But don’t try to convince me the way you’ve been trying to convince the others here, G - I want evidence, logical explanations or at least expert witnesses I trust (people who state that they themselves BELIEVE - but cannot prove - the matter at hand do not count). I’m way too sceptical to ever take anything else as granted.

As a final note, G: for us Atheists, taking all the fun we can get from life* is absolutely logical. We can’t delay our fun into the next life. We have it here.

*Just DARE to infer that this means I have no morals, buddy!

Hell is like floating in shark infested water,

Whoopsie, G has a little Dante in him!

G, you are wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong!

Smee will not torture you for all your mistakes though, not even for the sin of threatening others with damnation while not even being as funny as a Chick Tract. Smee forgives!

You don’t want the kind of assurance offered to you by blah blah blah

No. I don’t buy that kind of fire insurance.

Ingolfson,

How you doing? You seem more agnostic than athiest to me.

Did you get to read that post that Les knocked down, I have a copy of it still, I make a good amount of my posts on notepad while writing them and still have that one. Should I post it again, Les said he kind of wished he didn’t take it down. Lol, he said I preached in it, I never stop preaching, bro. You should’ve seen me in prison standing on the tables shaking my fists in the air. I was lost back then, all because I could not understand why God would allow souls into Heaven that were evil but forgiven, while people who had goodness in their hearts but didn’t know better would have to pay for mankind’s iniquity in Hell.Nobody ever simply told me the truth about repentance, it’s a tough road and the way into Heaven is narrow and straight, the more evil you do in the world the harder it is to repent for them. Yes, Jesus loves us all, for we are all the victoms of sin but repentance is serious business. There’s a lot to it, but you asked about the understanding, your like spocko you want proof, you can’t have it like that. He wants you to show the effort of putting out the effort. You have to understand things first, like how sin is connected, if you commit little sins you are still guilty of other’s big sins. It doesn’t sound fair believe me, I do know that. Jesus wants us to understand how destructive the things we do are, if we go to heaven and desire for anything out of place we disrupt ‘He Who Is Sacred’ and they will not have that in Heaven. Nope, gotta wipe your feet before they’ll let you in. You have to see that things are bad the way we are, and then He will let His presence be known to you, with understanding comes great knowledge and He cannot let you so near Him and share with you His wisdom unless you can show some amount of goodwill, I think it works something like that.

Check this out, read the lyrics to Megadeth’s “My Darkest Hour” I’ve been listening to that a lot, it directly applies to what my life has been like the last 6 months, since losing my wife. I want God to take me to the promised land He has come to me. I lost my job and left NYC penniless and she’ll have nothing to do with me. I have to go to the store, later.

My feelings are hurt. The troll ignores me.

Megadeth is for sinners the likes of me. Quoting lyrical value is for the likes of little girls bent and emotional in their rooms.
You obsessing isn’t constructive behavior at all. Too much and is just gonna land you in prison and have you fist shaking on top of tables again.
You girl left you, get over it. It happenes to the worst of us at one time or another. Rejection is a bitch. Stabalize and move on. So you fucked up in the past… ..making a habbit of it wont solve any of your problems. Maybe just a tad bit of accepting responsibility for ones own actions instead of asking jesus or yaweh whatever to take responsibility for you. Chicks dont stick with nut jobs or bums.. (unless there’s somthing wrong with them too.) so just focus on constructive behavior and little things like getting laid without paying and flushing the toilet after you use it, wiping your ass after a good shit and things will shape up for you. Ultimately you’ll beable to enjoy life for itself.  It is what it is.
If its pity you seek I have none to offer. Pity is for the weak from the weak. I hat to say it but it doesnt get any better than this.

… Hell is like floating in shark infested water, think about it. You are unable to move in Hell, frozen like a statue while things hurt you repeatedly, falling, burning, freezing, screaming in anguish, remembering those who were good to you and regretting losing them, being alone. Love is in Heaven, there is no joy in Hell. Tormented by your memories, regrets and sha ...

See, this is what bugs me - the believer “knows” so much about what the afterlife is like, down to specific sensory details, based on what?  Feelings, legends, popular stories and paintings, an old book written by a bunch of different people and selected from a larger body of similar writings.  There’s no corroborating evidence to it.

Other believers (in other traditions) have equally detailed, but different, knowledge of what lies beyond, and calls the first bunch of believers deluded or liars.  Nothing distinguishes one belief from another but they share space in the set of non-evidentary beliefs.

The best information we have - based on verifiable scientific knowledge that is repeatable and testable - is that consciousness resides in the activity of the brain.  No brain, no consciousness.  This is corroborated by the fact that certain kinds of brain damage can reliably produce certain variations in described consciousness.

Descartes said “I think, therefore I am.” Once the neurons depolarize, and the brain dies and rots away, consciousness - and with it the already dubious existence of the self - ends.  The musical note, played, dissipates and is no more, lost in the cacophony of vibrations that is all physical existence.

If there is any existence of the self beyond death, it is the ripples of effect that we have on those around us; our children, our friends, our society.  I am quite satisfied with this. The effect is not eternal but what is?  Possibly not even the universe itself.

hat = hate for those incapable of utilizing context clues

Boss,

You’re right when it comes down to “Jesus” I was just noting that despite it’s literal meaning, it was a name, or at least so I’ve been told by people who are interested in that kind of thing.  As for “Kristos” vs “Khristos” I think that’s more of a matter of the convention employed in the transliteration.  I’ll ask my office mate about it, she’s the one who knows all this trivia about classical Greek and Latin....

Everyone else,

Why are you even arguing with Gijn?  It seems pretty clear that he doesn’t place much stock on rational discourse.  Just make fun of him, it’s far more rewarding.

DOF,

I like your analogy of the musical note dissipating.  Nice imagery, very poetic.

Thanks, but I can’t claim authorship:

“When body and mind dissolve, they do not exist anywhere, any more than musical notes lay heaped up anywhere.  When a lute is played upon, there is no previous store of sound; and when the music ceases it does not go anywhere in space.  It came into existence on account of the structure and stem of the lute and the exertions of the performer; and as it came into existence so it passes away.

In exactly the same way, all the elements of being, both corporeal and non-corporeal, come into existence after having been non-existent; and have come into existence pass away…

adapted from the VISUDDHIMIGGA, translated by Henry Clarke Warren

I find that strangely comforting.  But since it’s Buddha and not Jesus I suppose Gijnabar will tell me I’m going to hell now.

Doh!  I left off an “ing” - it should be “...and having come into existence pass away...”

You should’ve seen me in prison standing on the tables shaking my fists in the air.

...it directly applies to what my life has been like the last 6 months, since losing my wife.

First, did you lose your wife to divorce or death?

I understand you much better now, NinjaBar. Thanks for the signifiers. I hope you can get past your grief over these situations. It’s possible you are attempting to work through problems by talking to us. If that’s the case, have at it!

I suspect you are feeling rejected, punished and unappreciated. It’s times like these, when we’ve been beaten down and should be satisfied, even pleased, with minor improvements, some finally gain the courage to ask for everything. These people feel they’ve gotten the worst treatment and now deserve the best. I suspect you’ve been defeated and feel you now only deserve to win the greatest prize.

I wish you wisdom as you continue to seek acceptance from a massively constructed fantasy and understand that you, like many, would love to live forever. I just think that if eternal life is possible for one, it’s guaranteed for all; you may not need to be a suck up for it.

Then again, you may be a burned-out druggie or justifiably consumed with guilt over horrible stuff you’ve done in the past.

In times like these, fantasies are the last things you should be embracing. If you can afford it, it might be a good idea to consult a psychotherapist.

Elwed,
I’m not ignoring you, just don’t see what I can do for you.

Ooayn
Dave Mustaine is righteous, his music serves a purpose, sure it is for sinners, but we are all sinners.
You don’t realy understand very much. You say you have no feelings or compassion, that is rather obvious to me. I didn’t ask you for any of that and don’t know why you thought that in the first place, read my posts again and you will see that is true, or you are one of them that only hears what you want to? No wonder to me that you have not found God. You do not think for a second that any one might be more aware of any single subject than you do?
You dare to make comments about pity, lol, I can tell by your very first post you are in the class of the least generous people alive. You have no such emotions as compassion and desire it not, if you do not want to feel God’s love then you never will.

In the song he says that now that his woman is gone, he walks alone to the promised land, he also says ‘loneliness is not only felt by fools’. It is shear coincidence, I found that album in my collection because I really needed some metal to listen to, and couldn’t bear any of that other stuff I had. I remembered Megadeth not being as bad as the others and gave it a listen, and found the music not disruptive. Infact it is quite righteous, I looked him up on the internet and sure enough he is a proffesing Christian. In my darkest hour is about him losing his wife to iniquity and chosing to be true to his God, and remaining celibate and serving the Lord, at least trying. It is a song of heartfelt devotion and the deep pain that almost all men have to go through atleast one time, but it is also from a christian view.
I get from your comments that you enjoy life only on the physical level, thats how I take it. please read my comment below I make for decrepit.

decrepit

See, this is what bugs me - the believer “knows� so much about what the afterlife is like,

you say that, then talk about life science and that’s very strange to me.
You say it bugs you that the believer knows more about the afterlife than you do. Yet you do not reflect on anythings spiritual.

You don’t want to believe me? I mean you don’t want to as opposed to you don’t?
I’ll try to give you this proof you keep asking for.
You see the world around you, how some people have more than others, and how some have very much less? Not just a little here and there, such as leaders and followers. Not even the sick and the poor and the rich and the strong. I mean the good and evil, the greedy and the generous, love versus hate.
If you think about this for a long time you can make it out how different emotions and feelings are grouped together and be classed as good and evil. You do not see this in the animals, each animal in it’s species is like the other, outside of their being a pack and pack leader, but their is no real diversity amongst the animals. It goes beyond this, it is in the way of our emotions and feelings where the spiritual world is encountered. As our intellect develops we see this. I am sorry that you do not, maybe it has something to do with;

Ooayn

just focus on constructive behavior and little things like getting laid without paying and flushing the toilet after you use it, wiping your ass after a good shit and things will shape up for you. Ultimately you’ll beable to enjoy life for itself.  It is what it is.
If its pity you seek I have none to offer. Pity is for the weak from the weak.

the faulty infectious desease of life. It spreads its spawn worlds over leaving behind only the stench of what once was. Death is an interesting thing

decrepitoldfool

If there is any existence of the self beyond death, it is the ripples of effect that we have on those around us; our children, our friends, our society.  I am quite satisfied with this.

I am quite satisfied with this.

I am quite satisfied with this.

Descartes said “I think, therefore I am.â€?… and the brain dies and rots away,… I am quite satisfied with this.

Spocko

Truth can be found at The God FAQ!

All of you have no idea of what is beyond death, I can find nothing useful from your replies just insults and curse words, but you doubt me and that is the best you can do.

I asked Less now I ask all of you according to your belief, how can you profess safety in the afterlife from greater spiritual beings (demons etc..)that are waiting for our bodies to die so they can torture
our souls or subconscience minds memories etc…

And if you doubt they exist how can you be sure? Espicialy the great amount of testomonies saying they do, and they do.

I’m not ignoring you, just don’t see what I can do for you.

*sob* *snif*

Schweinchen, was that what you had in mind?

Damn Ginjabar dude, you are bonkers. Don’t you see this at all?

Please get professional help!

Elwed,
What kind of fire insurance do you have then?

Do yo love those little demons so much you are willing to feed yourself to them?

You are not an atheist as they say atheists exist are you?

Do atheists really exist? How?

I find it impossible to imagine that anyone who wonders on the subject of the soul for any amount of time remains blind to it.

As you know masturbation is a sin, if you want a glimpse of the beyond go without all forms of sex and masturbation for atleast a few weeks while studying the bible looking for spiritual revelation. I don’t imagine to many people on this site has done that.
A body spent by such activities is repulsive to a spirit and seriously taught against by Jesus. He said it is better to cut off your hand than masturbate with it, and maybe you have read His treatise on marriage and premarital sex?

What kind of fire insurance do you have then?

I don’t buy your kind of fire insurance.

As you know masturbation is a sin

No wonder I have hair on the backs of my hands…

Sigh.  Gij, open your heart to Darwin, or you will be condemned to being silly for the rest of your life.  Or stay with the jew zombie; but don’t expect to “save” anyone who thinks logically.

Do you believe in Santa, or the Easter Bunny, or Tinkerbell?  Jesus and Satan are the same kind of being: whirlpools in the ideosphere.  Some people ride their waves.  Others get sucked in.

Gijinabar is amazingly obnoxious, I’ll give him that. He ignores any points raised and just keeps insisting that such things as demons and gods and heavens and hells exist as though it’s beyond doubt or question. Given the tenor of his last few replies, accusing me of being scared of his comments and such, it’s clear that he’s little more than a troll after all. He’s not here to discuss anything, he’s here to stroke his own ego in a self-masturbatory fashion by playing the idiot and stirring up trouble. That’s what I get for giving an asshole the benefit of the doubt.