Thanks for that, Nowiser. That was good. Really really good.

Here are the facts of this case.

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/images/schiavo_ct_scan.jpg

This is her CT scan, her Cerebral Cortex is GONE with no possibility of recovery.

http://floridahealthinfo.hsc.usf.edu/TheresaSchiavoFinalReport1December2003.pdf

and this is the unbias facts.

Bet you didn’t see this one.

Terri Schiavo Can Still be Rehabilitated, Nobel Prize-Nominated Doctor Says
by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
March 7, 2005

Clearwater, FL (LifeNews.com)—Despite the contention of Terri Schiavo’s estranged husband Michael and courts that have allowed him to starve her to death, a doctor nominated for the Nobel Prize says he believes medical therapies are still available that could help Terri party recover from her disabled state.

Dr. William Hammesfahr is an internationally recognized expert on cases of brain-injured patients. He has been identified in helping patients with chronic brain injuries from many causes actually leave long term disability, and return to work.

Terri Schiavo’s injury, hypoxic encephalopathy, is a type of stroke that he treats every day with success.

“We, and others I know, have treated many patients worse than Terri and have seen them regain independence and dignity,“ Hammesfahr said.

“There are many approaches that would help Terri Schiavo,“ Dr. Hammesfahr explained. “I know, because I had the opportunity to personally examine her, her medical records, and her X-rays.“

“It is time to help Terri, instead of just warehousing her,“ he added. “She would have benefited from treatment years ago, but it is not too late to start now.“

This isn’t the first time Hammesfahr has discussed Terri’s plight.

Last year, he explained that, after examining Terri, he believed that she could eventually eat and drink on her own. He also said he believes Terri would be able to talk and have good use of one arm and one hand should be given proper rehabilitative treatment.

Hammesfahr also said he thought Terri would eventually be able to transfer herself from a wheelchair to a bed.

“The patient is not in a coma,“ concluded Hammesfahr said after observing Terri. “She responds to specific people best. She tries to please others by doing activities for which she gets verbal praise.“

He says Terri’s eyes clearly fixate on her family and she tries to follow the simple commands her parents give her.
“She looks at you, she can follow commands,“ Hammesfahr said.

Dr. Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999.

THEOCRAT, I bet you saw positive mention of Dr.Hammesfahr’s assessments of Terry Schiavo’s chances mostly on religious and right to life websites, but did you see this?

Fox News host Sean Hannity and MSNBC host Joe Scarborough both promoted Dr. William Hammesfahr’s false claim that he is a Nobel Prize nominee.

Hammesfahr, a Florida neurologist disciplined in 2003 by the Florida Board of Medicine who claims he can help Terri Schiavo, testified during an October 2002 court hearing on the Schiavo case that his claim to be a Nobel nominee is based on a letter written by Rep. Mike Bilirakis (R-FL) recommending him for the prize. But Bilirakis is not qualified to make a valid nomination under the Nobel rules.

Read the article carefully.

If you only read sites like LifeNews…

Formerly the Pro-Life Infonet, LifeNews.com has been harnessing the power of the Intenet since 1992 to bring pro-life news to the pro-life community.

...which has a clear agenda to promote pro-life issues, it’s unlikely you’ll get a responsible, impartial view of the facts.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009

Forgot to mention that even if Hammesfahr had been nominated, the rules of the organization prohibit disclosing the nomination for 50 years.

Has X been nominated as a candidate for the Nobel Prize, or where do I find a list of Nobel Prize nominees?

According to the Statutes of the Nobel Foundation, information about the nominations is not to be disclosed, publicly or privately, for a period of fifty years. The restriction not only concerns the nominees and nominators, but also investigations and opinions in the awarding of a prize. Nomination information older than fifty years is public.

http://nobelprize.org/help/faq/#1

Does the doctor have no more respect for the Nobel Prize foundation than to break its basic rules and why are people so lazy about getting the facts concerning issues like these?

Actually I don’t read news, I just saw that link on another bulletin board and thought I would post it to bring some balance to nunyabiz’s stuff.  The legitimacy of his Nobel prize nomination however has nothing to do with his ability to help Schiavo.  If you have any info on his inability to treat her case as he claims that would be more relevant than revealing he wasn’t really nominated for a Nobel prize.

I know it’s terribly insensitive of me, but I burst out laughing when I read that a man believes that having a politician write a letter is practically the same thing as actually winning a Nobel Prize.

Actually, I like this system.  By this standard, I’m not a doctoral school dropout, I’m actually the Current Chair of the English Dept. at WSU.
Wheeee!

Brock.  Thumbs up to you, bud.

Gotta love the way Fox news checks its facts in order to provide fair and objective coverage. 

Fox News.  Thumbs down to you guys.

If you have any info on his inability to treat her case as he claims that would be more relevant than revealing he wasn’t really nominated for a Nobel prize.

Prove he’s a fraud!  And then prove God doesn’t exist!

extraordinary claims, Theo, extraordinary claims.

So, let me get this straight:  while Bush was governor of Texas, he helped sign into law a bill that would allow hospitals to take patients off of ventilators and life support if they determined the case was hopeless, or they ran out of medicaid funding.  http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3079622

  The same Bush that wants to “err on the side of life”  signed for the execution of 154 prisoners—and considering how many death row felons have recently been found innocent with the advent of DNA testing—many of whom could have been innocent.

  But suddenly, he goes through all this trouble for one woman who neurologists agree (with the exception of one fundy doctor) is an irreversible vegetable?  What am I missing?

THEOCRAT said: If you have any info on his inability to treat her case as he claims that would be more relevant than revealing he wasn’t really nominated for a Nobel prize.

His treatments have been discussed on
Quackwatch.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/tcd.html

Any bets that if I keep looking I’ll find more reasons to believe the man’s mostly out to promote himself at Schiavo’s expense?

The legitimacy of his Nobel prize nomination however has nothing to do with his ability to help Schiavo.

I’d say Hammesfahr’s lack of honesty and reliability have much to say about his ethics and abilities.

I just saw that link on another bulletin board and thought I would post it to bring some balance to nunyabiz’s stuff.

Normally you shouldn’t try to balance unless your offer has equal weight but I’m glad you
posted what you posted. I think it helped the discussion along.

If you have any info on his inability to treat her case as he claims that would be more relevant than revealing he wasn’t really nominated for a Nobel prize.

Hammesfahr was not allowed to examine Terri, but his assessment was a result of him “being in her proximity.“ And, how long was that? Answer, “less than one hour.“ If that doesn’t prove his inability to treat her case, “God didn’t make little green apples, and it doesn’t rain in Indianapolis in the summer time.“

According to the link Brock Hammesfahr isn’t so much a quack as he is just a doctor without enough evidence to support his theory.

Originally posted by Brock:
Normally you shouldn’t try to balance unless your offer has equal weight but I’m glad you
posted what you posted. I think it helped the discussion along.

Glad to help.  I’m not going to claim to know anything on this one, I don’t keep track of what is happening in the world outside what I see on this site, the bulletin board I frequent, and the few occasions I can catch an episode of the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.  All I can say is my preference is that she live if it can’t be determined that she willed to not be left on life saving equipment.  I really don’t care what the government does, if I did I would vote.

Theocrat,
Please see my post of 3/23/05 at 11:43PM. The reason the Federal Court and the Appeals Court and the Supreme Court have refused to act and reinsert the feeding tube is that Michael’s side has already proven that Terri did not want to live like a vegetable with “clear and convincing evidence,“ all that the law requires (and that was NOT based solely on Michael’s testimony). The Constitution requires due process of law to take someone’s life, and that has been more than met in this case. The argument is not that the law isn’t on Michael’s side, it’s that “God” isn’t on Michael’s side.

According to the link Brock Hammesfahr isn’t so much a quack as he is just a doctor without enough evidence to support his theory

As in, he can’t provide any evidence at -all- that he’s actually helped anyone in a situation similar to Schiavo’s, despite his claim that he has actually done so in the past. 

  I guess he performed a few medical miracles and then just forgot the names of the patients that he had saved with his fantabulous method.

  Oh.  My mistake.  Johnathan Edwards, psychic extraordinaire, has assured us all that Mrs. Schiavo is actually still ‘aware’ of what’s going on around her.  With evidence like that, who needs doctors?

The reason the Federal Court and the Appeals Court and the Supreme Court have refused to act and reinsert the feeding tube is that Michael’s side has already proven that Terri did not want to live like a vegetable with “clear and convincing evidence,� all that the law requires (and that was NOT based solely on Michael’s testimony).

And proven it A DOZEN TIMES!  How many court cases do the Schiavos have to WIN in order to have this woman’s wishes honored?  Her parents have been given every chance to prove their case and have failed to do so.

I love how Theocrat shows up, tosses out an article that goes to great lengths to hype up Hammesfahr’s supposed Nobel nomination without offering any information about what his supposed treatment is that will help Schiavo recover and then challenges us to prove that his methods don’t work, all the while dismissing the fact that Hammesfahr is basically lying about his credentials in an attempt to appear authoritative.

If we can’t trust the man to be honest about whether or not he’s one something as important as a Nobel prize then why should even begin to suspect he’s telling the truth about is supposed treatments?

I thought you believers were supposed to value honesty? I guess it’s just another occasion where you’re willing to overlook a shortcoming such as that if it supports your point of view.

What a sad story.  I can’t imagine the anguish Terry Schiavo’s parents are going through.  I can see why they would grasp at straws, hoping against hope that she might somehow be saved.  The politicians cashing in on this are scum, however.
This reminds me of another case of the manipulation of hope, something Americans seem especially susceptible to: so-called “facilitated communication”, where severely mentally handicapped people sit at a computer keyboard and type astonishing stuff- with a “facilitator” gently nudging their hands.  What is really happening here, of course, is that the hand of the hapless patient is functioning as nothing more than the planchette of a ouija board, spelling out whatever the “facilitator” wants, consciously or unconsciously.  Here’s a good lowdown:

http://www.skeptic.com/02.3.green-fc.html

In Ms. Schiavo’s case, poor Terry is the planchette of a giant ouija board, shoved to and fro by the hopes and lusts of family, friends, religion, and politics.  Luckily for her, she seems oblivious to it all.  May she rest in peace, one way or another.

You’ve put it just right, zilch.  Terri’s parents are desperate to prove that she’s responsive—and people see what they want to see in random actions.  Notice that the photo of her that is published most often is posed so that it looks like she’s cheek-to-cheek with her mother, with an expression of bliss on her face.  Talk about heartstring pulling.  And apparently the videos her parents took were carefully edited to show only those actions that looked like real responses.

Considering that her family members testified that even if Terri HAD told them she wanted her feeding tube removed, they still wouldn’t do it, I don’t think we can trust anything they say.

Terri’s situation has been staged over and over again in the news to make her look like less than a vegetable.  Her parents are calling the multiple rulings against them “judicial homicide.“  One man has been arrested for trying to put a bounty on the murder of Michael Schiavo and Judge Greer.  This whole thing is getting completely out of control thanks to the irrational hysteria of right-to-life groups.

No one seems to be willing to entertain the notion (the evidence for which, when presented to the court, was judged “clear and convincing”) that Terri really meant what she said, and that she deserves to have her wishes respected.  This is the sort of thing that I see way too often in right-to-life cases:  they conveniently ignore or negate the wishes of the woman involved.  Would people be reacting like this if it were a man in the bed?  I somehow don’t think so.

Originally posted by Les:
I love how Theocrat shows up, tosses out an article that goes to great lengths to hype up Hammesfahr’s supposed Nobel nomination without offering any information about what his supposed treatment is that will help Schiavo recover and then challenges us to prove that his methods don’t work, all the while dismissing the fact that Hammesfahr is basically lying about his credentials in an attempt to appear authoritative.

If we can’t trust the man to be honest about whether or not he’s one something as important as a Nobel prize then why should even begin to suspect he’s telling the truth about is supposed treatments?

I thought you believers were supposed to value honesty? I guess it’s just another occasion where you’re willing to overlook a shortcoming such as that if it supports your point of view.

Honestly, what does it take for me to convey that I am mostly ignorant to the situation?  I don’t watch the news I can only repeat what I see on this site and my other BB.  I honestly believed you all probably already were on top of things with your very enlightened opinions.  But when I watch this thread all I see is very little actual info because you all are agreeing with each others opinions to begin with so little actual evidence for your opinions is presented.  You all have proved many times how intelligent you are, but it seems that the evidence of your intelligence has to be dragged out of you through someone challenging you with their ignorance.  So I’m going to keep challenging until I get as much of the entire truth out of you that I can since it would take me forever to trace your logic through Google searches.

Now from my reading of Dr. Hammesfahr through the lifenews article and the link Brock posted, Hammesfahr never claimed to be nominated for a Nobel prize.  There was a headline listing him as Nobel prize nominated, but that doesn’t convey to me he promotes himself ignorantly.

Further the article Brock posted is more than five years old.  Dr. Hammesfahr has not stopped doing his prcedures since then to my (limited) knowledge so the lack of evidence it claims may have been justified then, but likely is certainly not a fair representation of the facts as they stand now.

If it’s been proven “A DOZEN TIMES!“ that Schiavo’s wishes were really that she didn’t want to be kept alive then I really don’t have a problem with someone trying to honor those wishes.  The last thing I want is someone’s ability to choose taken from them.

Finally while I may be intellectually lazy don’t discredit me as intellectually dishonest as well.  I am making my opinions based on the facts I have seen.  It can’t be expected that I’m going to have a very informed opinion if I don’t even know where to find the facts.  On that note, back to antagonizing you all. 

Here is some more information, (Real unbiased info) not the pure shit being spewed by the Religious Reich propaganda machine.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf

Any alleged Neurologist that can look at the CAT scan here:

The CT scan is very clear, if you can tell the difference between a freshly plowed 100 acre field and one with 100 acres of corn growing on it, then you can read the CT scan.
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/images/schiavo_ct_scan.jpg
It just doesn’t get any plainer than this.

then make the absurd claim that they can help her regain consciousness, speech, eating drinking, basically ANYTHING whatsoever as far as rehab, is an absolute Charlatan and should have his license revoked immediately.

The parents are disgusting, they have demonized this poor man, called him a murderer, made him in some wife beating Monster and all these LIES told on a Global Stage, all based entirely on Religious Reich bald faced LIES.
They are utterly disgusting, they sicken me to the very core of my being for what they have done to this poor man.

Michael Schaivo is the ONLY one that has done ANYTHING for his wife, HE is the one that got medical opinions, not just a 2nd opinion but 20+ opinions, HE is the one that after exhausting all known therapy took her to Calif. to have experimental brain surgery performed as a last resort, HE is the one that even went to nursing school in order to learn to take proper care for her IF that were to become necessary, HE was the one that took the doctors/hospital to court once malpractice was found out in order to get money to make sure Terri had the best of care, that money was placed into a Trust Fund FOR Terri with the Bank as Trustee and every penny has been accounted for (currently about $32,000 left in it).
Now HE is the one that is trying to see to it that his wife’s wishes are carried out, and during the entire 15 years HE is the one that has been by her side the most has visited her FAR more than the parents have.

These abhorrent parents started this whole thing because Michael Schiavo would not give them 1/2 of the money that HE received from his court case.
All this bullshit over $150,000 that they were not entitled to.
They told him at that point “We will make your life a living hell” this is the ONE thing they have done in this whole fiasco, totally demonized an innocent man whom has been nothing short of Heroic in his effort to help his wife.

These delusional psychotics backed ONLY by the Religious Reich are VILE and should be incarcerated.

“... incinerated?“

... as in afterlife . . .

either one, Incarcerated, Incinerated, Id be fine with either one.

THEOCRAT said: Now from my reading of Dr. Hammesfahr through the lifenews article and the link Brock posted, Hammesfahr never claimed to be nominated for a Nobel prize.  There was a headline listing him as Nobel prize nominated, but that doesn’t convey to me he promotes himself ignorantly.

DR. Hammesfahr’s official website does exactly that.

Dr. Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize for his work in Medicine and Physiology in 1999.  The Nomination was for work started in 1994.

“God Leaves No One Behind” is the HAMMESFAHR NEUROLOGICAL INSTITUTE’s mission statement and apparently Hammesfahr himself leaves no one named Terri Schiavo behind.

If he had been nominated and lost, he would not know for fifty years because nominations are kept confidential that long. Hammesfahr is depending on the gullibility of those such as yourself to accept what he says is true and he’s only fooled those “mostly ignorant to the situation”.

If you want more recent information on the efficacy of Hammesfahr’s radical treatments, be aware that in 2003 the Florida Department of Health found him guilty of charges brought against him. He’s been heavily fined ($52,000) in the past and placed on probation more recently.

The list of penalties he was forced to submit to is long, but among them was a revocation of his license to practice medicine until such time as he was placed under the monitoring/supervision of a fully licensed practicing physician approved by the State of Florida’s Board of Medicine Probationer Committee.

http://uschatter.com/index.php?p=194

http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/FinalOrders/03-17-03/DOH-03-0182.pdf

I understand that you can justify ignorance of issues and feel OK with doing so little research, but perhaps you leave too much of life’s mysteries to be accepted through faith alone.

I’ve shown you that Hammesfahr is a liar. What other situations should we look at together afresh?

While it’s generally accepted that Terri Schiavo is in a permanent vegetative State, that’s the first time I’ve heard Florida called that. I know there are lots of old retirees there but isn’t that rather an extreme reference?