BTW I would like to know what the fellow SEBs think about getting married and not having children. People who get married and don’t have kids, even though they can, fucking piss me off.

Maybe its just a badly phrased way of saying that he thinks people who have no kids should not expect society to take up all the slack in their old age?

At least thats how I see it. Right now, the chances of me getting kids look pretty bleak (seeing as I seem to be totally unable to even find a partner for once) - but I support measures that reduce state benefits for seniors who never had kids/increase them for those who had. Obviously you can’t make that retroactive, since that would be unfair, but its one of the measures we do need or our social systems will get worse and worse, as the young/old ratio worsens.

As it is, here in Germany, I don’t see much in that direction happening. Society is actually making it more difficult to raise kids, what with the plans to close kindergardens and schools due to reduced numbers of kids - its a self-fulfilling prophecy if you accept it like that.

Being of a individualistic libertarian bent I’m of the opinion that anyone who doesn’t want to have kids, shouldn’t. Whether that’s good or bad for society as a whole doesn’t really factor into my opinion. I think there are too many people who probably shouldn’t have kids because they’re lousy parents who insist on it already so I’d rather that folks think long and hard before deciding to have kids.

I have a daughter from a relationship that didn’t work out, but the truth is I was one of those people who didn’t intend to have children and I probably won’t have any more even though I’ve been married for 4 years now. I didn’t want to have kids because I didn’t think I’d make a very good father. There’s some folks who’d probably argue that I was right. Now that she’s here I wouldn’t trade Courtney for the world and I suppose I’m not as bad of a parent as I assumed I would be. Still, I have enough trouble taking care of my small family as it is without making it larger.

I wasn’t too interested in this thread until the kids thing was mentioned.  I guess I’m one of those assholes who is married with NO intention of having kids. 

With close to 300,000,000 people in this country, I think there are enough other people that can have children.  I choose not to be one of them.  Some of my smartest friends are in the same category (or divorced with the same intentions).  Why?  My wife and I have to many things that we want to do together and more importantly, we don’t like kids.  But we love each other, so we choose to be married. 

The thing I would be more concerned about is all the idiots out there having kids.  And lots of them.

Maybe it’s just a badly phrased way of saying that he thinks people who have no kids should not expect society to take up all the slack in their old age?

I can’t see that, and I don’t think it’s fair.  For one thing, you don’t want to penalize infertile people.  You also don’t want to force people into marriage and parenthood when they can’t find the right partner.  This is one of those cases where society has to take care of its own.  Those childfree people are working, contributing members of society, and they too are indirectly paying for something they don’t benefit from—they have to contribute to the care and raising of children whether they want any for themselves or not.  The children benefit from our society, and so it’s only right that they help support it when they come of age.

Of course, we could revert to a state where there is NO support for seniors or children except from their direct families.  But I doubt anyone wants that.

**Since the whole purpose of marriage is reproduction, it seems entirely unreasonable to allow people to marry without having children.

Instead, those who of us who choose not to bless this world with our progeny should be issued non-reproductive cohabitation permits.

This would get us out of that whole gay-marriage thing, and it would remind people of the True Meaning of marriage. Marriages that fail to produce children within a reasonable period of time (say 5 years), would be down-graded. Of course, this might be a little sad for those who find that they can’t have children, but what the hell! They’re not making a contribution to the future anyway.

Renwable at one-year intervals, the non-reproductive cohabitation permit would satisfy the liberal bent for relationship recognition, reduce the soaring divorce rate (simply fail to renew) and provide a handy source of income for the government.

As far as the argument that some people shoudn’t have kids goes, I can only say that God brings people into this world with a divine purpose, and to use birth control is to thwart His holy intentions. God will provide whatever sorrows are necessary to develop the child’s character appropriately and it is not up to us to second-guess Him.

Divorce rates would decline, marriage would be saved, and the world would be a better place.
This may not be an original idea, but it really is worth consideration. 

**I do hope that you can hear the sarcasm in this post**

Feel free to ignore me now that I’ve wandered far from the topic.

but I support measures that reduce state benefits for seniors who never had kids/increase them for those who had

I also consider myself Libertarian.  Government intervention is bad.  People talk about allowing this, forcing that, and supporting measures that do this other thing.  Please, no more whacky laws!  Keep the goverment out of this stuff.

Let’s throw gasoline in the fire.

Firstly, There are too many people in this world.
world population
Secondly, I think it’s selfish to THINK that if you can....you have to.

Thirdly, The magic word here isn’t “should”, It’s “could”.

Funny, The Church wants more subjects so that more souls gather under their umbrella to eat and digest their lies. And yes, LIES.

The government wants more citizens so more taxes can be collected and the way things are at the moment, the u.s. is going to need very soon a lot more soldiers.

More bitching to come....I’m at work so I have to do it bit by bit.

I guess I’m one of those assholes who is married with NO intention of having kids

You are far from alone.  And I don’t think that makes you an asshole.  Of course, I’m prone to favor people who share my own perspectives, so I’m not exactly an objective source for calibrating an ‘asshole meter.’

God will provide whatever sorrows are necessary to develop the child’s character appropriately and it is not up to us to second-guess Him.

I’m with you on this one, but is supplementing God’s largesse with the occasional beating or grounding presumptuous?  I mean, I’m sure God’s afflictions will mold a child appropriately, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t help a bit, right?

What the f… does god have to do with having kids or not!

Tell me, is the maple tree that I have in my backyard catholic or protestant or maybe muslim.
Will it’s fruits be republican or democrat or independant.

I hope it’s the language barrier because I’m thinking...."what the f… is wrong with you people”. It’s written right on the top of this page.
Or maybe I’m not getting the sarcasm.

I love this.

John,

Your concern about the world of tomorrow is no reason not to have children.  We need our children to help solve the problems you mentioned.

Zilch’s concern was that we are having too many kids and that us having too many kids is a potential global problem.  That being the case, how would having more children be part of the solution?

I guess I’m one of those assholes who is married with NO intention of having kids

Count me in the asshole pile, too. We’ve been married 7 years. I am 31 and my husband is 36...and 6 months post-vasectomy. No kids here from either of us.

The word de jour is ‘childfree’.

Socialist Swine,

Zilch’s concern was that we are having too many kids and that us having too many kids is a potential global problem.  That being the case, how would having more children be part of the solution?

Having children is not a global problem.  As I said earlier populations in many industrialized nations are declining.  It is the developing nations that need help.  Populations of many of these countries are exploding but that is not the root of their problems.  These countries need education, health care, and a strong economy.  When they are able to catch up with the more industrialized nations their populations will begin to level out.  When Mom and Pop in Africa have an education, a good job, and don’t have to worry about putting food on the table, they have more options other than just having more children.

It just seems kinda pointless to get married and not have kids. Why bother getting married? Why not just live together?

And and just to double dip if anyone is tired of this topic about having kids there is another topic I’ve been burning to ask atheists for some time now. Just let me know.

It just seems kinda pointless to get married and not have kids. Why bother getting married? Why not just live together?

:thud:  So in contrast, why not have those people that want to have children wait until the wife is actually pregnant to get married.  Until that time they can just live together.

What’s the point of having an animal as a pet if you’re not going to breed it?  What kind of fucked up logic is that?

Marriage is a form of registration which is not free by the way. Like baptism is a form of registration.

The goal is to live a happy life and marriage is just a word....why defend a word?

I’m no atheist but I am curious to read your other topic.

No hurry though… your thread is starting to roll.

I think I’m just weird. I suppose it’s one of those things that piss me off for no reason, like Bob Dylan or people sucking their teeth.

The goal is to live a happy life and marriage is just a word....why defend a word?

Excellent point, one I should’ve considered earlier…

Ok, I’ve been wanting to ask atheists this for a long time. How do you explain the Marian Apparitions? For a long time they were the only thing that kept my faith alive. I don’t have a fucking clue now.

I think the fact that all apparitions have been discovered and/or witnessed almost exclusively by True Believers^TM speaks volumes.

Much the same can be said about extraterrestrials, voodoo, ghosts, etc… If you want to believe something badly enough, you will.

Some Muslims claim to have seen the picture in the Wikipedia article I linked to. The photo was never explained.

How do we even know these Marian Apparitions actually decipt Virgin Mary?  Do we have a picture somewhere?  Any hints about her appearance in the Bible?  Historical references about how people dressed at that time/place?

Just wondering.

There are millions of things that occur in this world that are never completely explained.  The problems arise when people assign their belief structure to provide an answer instead of objectively seeking a resolution.

Jesus Saves
God Invests
My wife spends
and I’m beside myself!

If you want to see the truth behind the bible read the chapter on “Meme-ics” in my book “God-101 on blog part of God-101.com