That explains everything, nothing more need be said.

Bahamat, I see what you’re saying.  But why is the truth horrible?

konstantin - It may be that I minsinterpreted but (for your information at least) here’s why I thought what I did

First I saw too sentances next to each other that imply aspects of each other:

Kent Howind is my hero, and he will put all of you down like he does it every time.  Because he’s got the truth

Now it’s not unusual to for people say, basically that people percieve things as they do because they cannot handle reality. You would only have problems coping with reality if it were a bad thing.
Although problems accepting do happen on certain things (ie ‘delusion de grandeur’ as just one), when it’s openly accused it’s often applied to the wrong person because the type of person who would go accusing others, more often than not (depending on the situation) would have a more warped perception of reality themselves than those being accused, and consider anything different (including the less warped) to be wrong, which in itself removes any sense of direction and closes the mind with (usually emotionally driven) determination. Overpower that and you’ll make dealing with them easier for yourself and all others.

And my thinking this might be the false-perception arguement seemed reinforced by:

Kent Howind does not say stuff to please everybody.  If he was then you guys would be for him.  But since he is telling the truth you guys and the government is against him.  They want to dust the truth

Which implies some people dislike what your theory/truth says enough to come up with alternatives that they can better cope with psychologically, because that’s the only explanation I can find.

I will also point out the (not unusual) desire to view self as the minority, even if it’s subconcious, and even if you hate the idea of everyone being the opposite, many relish in the idea of being the lone ‘crusader’ for what they percieve to be good. On the plus side, this shows determination and a willingness to go against the grain, and maybe even a preparedness to sacrifice good relations in order to achieve your objectives (conflict is difficult to avoid if you want to change something)

! also means factorial, where you multiply a number once by every positive number (that is a whole number less than your starting number) between your starting number and 0 (by that I mean include 1 but not 0).
in short:
n! = n*(n-1)!
or
n! = n*(n-1)*(n-2)*(n-3) etc until you get to n*(n-(n-1))
Don’t know whether it is technically supposed to work for non-integers, don’t see why not, but there needs to be an integer difference between the terms

I was following this thread for other reasons and came across the digression above.  The generalization of the factorial function to non-integers is called the gamma function. It is defined for every number except the negative integers, and is useful in the twilight zone of math (most anything beyond and including Calculus)

For an integer Gamma(n)= (n-1)!

I didn’t realise non-integers could be done, and thinking on it i’m not surprised negatives are awkward - must look pretty spiky with all those sign changes

must look pretty spiky with all those sign changes

Not really, it would be a positive if you have an even number, negative if you have an odd number.  Shouldn’t be too hard to figure out how many numbers are being multiplied, right?

On a graph though the alternation between +ve and -ve is what would make the perabolas between asymptopes come from above and below alternately. Perabolas are like spikes, even if they do flatten out gradually

decrepitoldfool- Would you believe that a computer was not made in china but over billions of years was evolutionized?  No that is impossible it has a made in china label on it.  But humans which are million times more intelligent slowly developed from crap over billions and billions of years and that’s true.(For evolutionists) I think humans are batter then that.
Bastich- yea I’ve been on that website it’s full of it.  (Lie)
Bahamat- I respect your comment.  Kent Howind will not put you down but prove you wrong.  Why is the truth horrible?  Are illusions better then real life?  Bible is correct because everything what was in it came true.  And everything else will come true.  I do not want to go with thousands of examples.
MisterMook-Only like six months ago I saw Kent Howind’s first tape.  I never even heard of him before that.

decrepitoldfool- Would you believe that a computer was not made in china but over billions of years was evolutionized?  No that is impossible it has a made in china label on it.

Dof- you don’t mind if I pseudo-channel you, do I?
konstantin: thank you!  I love weirding language, too, and you’ve taught me a new word: evolutionize!  I love it!
But seriously- when my daughter Rosalind was born seventeen years and some months ago, she came with a “Made in China” label- a so-called “Mongolian spot”.  This is a bluish spot above the base of the spine common in Asian, East African, and Native American babies, which usually disappears within a few years.  Now, Barbara and I are both nominally white, but Barbara has Asian ancestors, and I have Native American ancestors, if you go back a couple of generations, so it’s not surprising that Rosi got the spot.

You may be asking yourself, what does this have to do with evolution?  It has everything to do with evolution: like Rosi with her Mongolian spot, we all carry many labels that indicate our provenance.  Read correctly, they tell a story that goes back billions of years.

Kent Hovind and his ilk would have us believe that this fascinating, complicated, exciting story, of a Universe that is nearly fourteen billion years old, and life nearly four billion, full of sound and fury, is a lie; and that some guy in the sky poofed us into existence a mere six thousand years ago.  What an impoverished imagination!  What arrogance to claim that a book written by tribal nomads who thought the Earth was flat is right, and centuries of science is wrong!

If you’re going to believe in imaginary beings, at least pick one who’s nice, like Santa, or tasty, like the Spaghetti Monster.  Yahweh is most definitely not nice, and probably not tasty.

If you’re going to believe in imaginary beings, at least pick one who’s nice, like Santa, or tasty, like the Spaghetti Monster.  Yahweh is most definitely not nice, and probably not tasty.

Aw c’mon!  Yahweh has a few characteristics (note I left out “endearing” there).  I mean, he IS a wrathful, murdering, illogical, voyeur who has a seriously messed up sense of fairness and a highly unusual obsession with foreskins.  Can’t you find something in there you like?

Anybody?

That’s some mighty fine channeling, Zilch

konstantin: Are illusions better then real life?

Usually people would only make an illusion if it made them happier, if only in the short term, otherwise there’s no point in it, but these can be unsustainable (especially if they require lots of unnecessary effort). You can’t really go back to an old illusion once you know more

I do not want to go with thousands of examples

Nor can I be bothered to, but not all of the bible makes sense - a loving god who sends people to hell forever for doing things that didn’t necessarily hurt anyone (ie prostitution)? - one who would just write people off?
Why would an all-powerful god create people with a need to improve - if you were able to make perfectly happy people who didn’t need to do anything to remain so (didn’t feel bordom, loneliness, etc), then why not do so? Something, somewhere down the line, is clearly imperfect in order for the world to manifest imperfection

If you want us to believe the bible, you’ll have to find the sense in it all

konstantin needs to come up with some original arguments. His comments feel like he’s a creationist newbie who’s just starting out with the simplest of fallacies.

konstantin needs to come up with some original arguments. His comments feel like he’s a creationist newbie who’s just starting out with the simplest of fallacies.

Give him time, his brain isn’t fully Hovindified yet.

zilch- If two normal white people have a baby the baby will be white.  It’s genetics, so does the “Mongolian spot”, and so does two hands two arms and so on.  Why don’t some of us get a baby with a tail?  If evolution is true then we should get them because we were sea creatures back then.  How do you keep records that are a billion years old, we were half chimps back then.
Bahamat- we as humans are already a 100 present.  We do not need improvement or at least straight and sober people.  If some people suffer from some problems they got themselves into then it’s their fault. And about prostitution, why go there when you can just have a wife and live with her happily ever after.  But no matter how bad and sad someone’s life is now, that all does not matter, because God can forgive, the life will not probably forgive but God will, because He is merciful and does not punish as as hard as we sin.  Everyone sins and we do not deserve to be in a place where there are no tears, no blood where streets are covered in gold where a lamb and a wolf will be eating grass together.  There is no enemy, no lies. No one even can even imagine what is going to be there you can not even illusionize it, no matter how hard you tried.
Les- I am not a creationist if you give me something better then creationism then I will be all over it.  But so far evolution does not cut it.  And creation seems and is true because it has been experienced and proven 100%.  It is no theory it will not change, it says and always stayed the same, and no word of it was or will be changed.  Because it’s the truth.

I think that you guys just can not find happiness here on earth and let me tell you it is not here.

Why don’t some of us get a baby with a tail?

Some do. Guess what happens to these tails?

How do you keep records that are a billion years old, we were half chimps back then.

Ever heard of geology? There’s all kinds of interesting stuff in rocks.

I am not a creationist if you give me something better then creationism then I will be all over it.  But so far evolution does not cut it.  And creation seems and is true because it has been experienced and proven 100%.  It is no theory it will not change, it says and always stayed the same, and no word of it was or will be changed.  Because it’s the truth.

ROTFLMAO.

Creationism changes all the time and there’s tons of creationist schools, like the Flat Earth, Young Earth, Old Earth, and Theistic Evolution dudes. They all change their tune in yet another attempt to get their religious idiocy taught in the science classroom instead of a church.

Experienced and proven? Oh, I get it! You’re talking about the Bible, which is literally true, right?

I think that you guys just can not find happiness here on earth and let me tell you it is not here.

Translation: My arguments suck, I don’t have the brainpower or the evidence to support my claim, therefore I have nothing left but ad hominem.

Translation: My arguments suck, I don’t have the brainpower or the evidence to support my claim, therefore I have nothing left but ad hominem.

Nuh uh, you big doody head! It’s all true!  My mom told me as much.

Ever heard of geology? There’s all kinds of interesting stuff in rocks.

Damn you, elwed.  Monitor cleaning time again…

If two normal white people have a baby the baby will be white. It’s genetics, so does the “Mongolian spot”, and so does two hands two arms and so on. Why don’t some of us get a baby with a tail? If evolution is true then we should get them because we were sea creatures back then. How do you keep records that are a billion years old, we were half chimps back
then.
(Emphasis mine)

There’s the first sign of a creationist: no concept of scale.  A billion years ago, there were no humans, no proto-humans, no ambulocetus, no dinosaurs, no land animals at all.  It was the middle of the proterozoic era, which lasted approximately a million times as long as everything that has happened since the New Testament was compiled. 

A million times as long.  Put a penny on the sidewalk.  Lay one million more pennies alongside it, and the first and last pennies will be nearly twelve miles apart.  Go for a twelve-mile walk this afternoon. Imagine each penny as the entire history of the human race since Jesus walked the Earth. Hour after hour in the sun, walking past pennies. Each one of your strides takes you past about forty of them.

The record is not kept by man, it is accumulated in the rocks, in the genetic code, even in the background radiation of the cosmos.  We are learning how to read it, and it turns out to be a MUCH longer record than anyone thought.  For some idea of just the span of human evolution, read PZ Myers’ Proper reverence due those who have gone before. 

we as humans are already a 100 present. We do not need improvement or at least straight and sober people…

How fortunate for you to be born straight and sober, whatever that means. 

I am not a creationist if you give me something better then creationism then I will be all over it. But so far evolution does not cut it. And creation seems and is true…

OK, you seem to have a little problem here.  A “creationist” is someone who believes that creation is true.  You believe creation is true.  Which makes you...?

I think that you guys just can not find happiness here on earth and let me tell you it is not here.

It ain’t in your nonexistent afterlife either, bub.

It ain’t in your nonexistent afterlife either, bub.

Jumpin’ to conclusions, are we, dof?  If konstantin’s not a creationist, maybe he has Slack, has been saved by Bob, and will enjoy an afterlife of eternal sex on Planet X.

All I need to read to know he’s full of shit:

And creation seems and is true…

Because it’s the truth.

Nuff said!

Konstantin spews forth with the following…

Les- I am not a creationist if you give me something better then creationism then I will be all over it.  But so far evolution does not cut it.

Two things are clear from the above statement. First that you are indeed a Creationist despite your denial. Second, that you don’t possess enough knowledge about the Theory of Evolution to make any kind of pronouncement on whether or not it’s true. You can’t even form complete and coherent sentences and you think you’re qualified to claim Evolution doesn’t “cut it”?

Well, if nothing else, it gave me a good laugh.

konstantin: If some people suffer from some problems they got themselves into then it’s their fault.

But - if it’s their fault then there’s something wrong with them, right? That means humans have the potential to do wrong things, which in itself would make them imperfect because a perfect design of human wouldn’t be capable of wrongness, it’d be foolproof.

Besides, if we still need to be tested, or still need to be educated, then clearly such a god wouldn’t have 100% confidence in his design, and you know, it takes time for people to learn, it’s not instantaneous, and it’s painful, why would an all-powerful, loving god create these conditions if he had the power to make people at the top of develpoment instantly? Why even would he allow pointless, purely negative feelings like boredom, or sorrow, or having lack of meaning, to exist when they need not?

And about prostitution, why go there when you can just have a wife and live with her happily ever after

That door isn’t open to me. I’ve played all my cards and this is my only shot at finding some resolution to the issue, I’m not capable of love or much emotion, I get excessively nervous around women in the conventional methods, and the whole thing seems kind of pointless anyway, or at least I cannot afford to make an emotional investment, and with a prostitute it’s completely detatched, it might break my inhibitions and make me feel more comfortable. Then again, if I cannot love others or get the love of others, then I have to be OK with myself through another way, and I think perhaps I don’t need it anyway, then maybe I wouldn’t be a slave to the need of love. That would take time.

because God can forgive, the life will not probably forgive but God will

We humans can forgive too. I don’t really care if I go to afterlife hell, so long as I don’t end up spreading psychological hell. In fact, afterlife hell would be an ideal place to do the work of getting people out of psychological hell. I would do it for the selfish reason of wanting to minimise my own guilt (the feeling that gives you a selfish reason to help others) and make my dealings with others easier on myself. I cannot honeslty say that I am able to be unselfishly giving, because I see no logic in it.

because He is merciful and does not punish as as hard as we sin.

You wouldn’t really learn from your mistakes if this were the case. In life the pain and guilt seems many times over what I inflicted on others. Why would god wait till we die to give us feedback?

Everyone sins and we do not deserve to be in a place where there are no tears

Why should you have to deserve something?
People help others because they need to be helped, not because they deserve to be (ie emergency services). People (sometimes unknowingly) create psychological hell for others because the target has a need to be free from a dependance (think of those who deliberately pester the easily annoyed - they do it because the target needs to become less easily annoyed, but the perpetrator doesn’t often know this and does it for a masking motive of fun)

I think the concept of ‘deserving’ is, quite frankly, a dark concpet. It makes people expect what they don’t need unreasonably (and it’s subjective as to what the level of deserving is), and it makes people have to work for what should really be free anyway. Think - you didn’t have a choice about coming into existence (before you existed you cannot ask your creator not to make you), and then you’re expected to have to work for the ‘privelege’ of existence or of not-suffering? That would make you a slave, always having to work just to avoid the negative, with no input. Would you expect things of people you created without their agreement if you were god? Would you do this if you had children even?

A luxury is something that makes you feel above average, I think it’s OK to be expected to work for luxuries to balance it out, but merely trying to non suffer is not no luxury, because it’s not even above average

Wow!  I guess kinder garden, middle and high school teachers stuff evolution very hard in your early developing brains that even till now you guys are up for it.  What’s in the rocks?  You do not know well that is the point.  They will tell you this rock is 2 billion years old just because we told it to be that and we made the chart for it.  And because you do not know you listen to them because they got false data and foolish theories, and they will say see that is evolution.  Plus I do not care what ‘s in the rocks and what’s in the dirt if the dirt that gives life to thousands of different plans then that is the way God made it to be.  I know that life did not come from nothing someone had to give it.  And that is God.
elwedriddsche-If someone has a baby with the tail then just tell him to cut down on the drugs.
Les-I am happy for you.  It really do look like you need a laugh there and there, once in a while.
Bahamat-God created us perfect and he gave everything to us.  There was no pain, no wars, and all animals ate grass, lamb next to the wolf next to the human.  It was a perfect place.  But just until Adam and eve ate from the tree that devil lied about.  And then they ended up in the place called mother earth.  Where devil is still lying to people and putting them on his path leading to everlasting suffering.  The devil will make sure that you will end up as low as possible because that is his point, threw sin.  He does not say do what ever you want he says- steal, do it with every girl, kill, lie, and then when you do that he will tell you.  See you’re not happy go and end it, and he will be laughing at you and at what you do and at what you did and he will say to the Lord see he’s mine he’s as good as dead. But God will say there’s still some time, all he needs to do is to repent in his sins and he will get a new life. 
If you want to deserve something then that is heel to all of us we can not deserve Heaven.  But God is so merciful to us that he forgives us no matter how bad our sin is.  And He is knocking on the door and is waiting for you to open.  Why is there sin?  Because of devil.  If you follow the devil then you will end up with him, in a fire that never burs down.  I’m just telling the truth.  I rather be with my Creator who created the Heaven and the earth and everything that is on it and around it.

Konstantin is getting boring…

I guess kinder garden, middle and high school teachers stuff evolution very hard in your early developing brains that even till now you guys are up for it.

I was about to say the same thing about Bible school and creationism.

If someone has a baby with the tail then just tell him to cut down on the drugs.

Yeah, your god must be on drugs.