Why haven’t we evolved to live till 500

I don’t know why I’m bothering but…

Evolution really doesn’t care how long you live. Evolution is about changes between generation- once you’ve had kids your species is still in the game. In fact it is an evolutionary disadvantage to live a long time, because of food competition.  Londer lived animals tend to be those that produce less offspring.

The world is perfect

debatable, even from a non human point, but never the less, here goes. You are assuming the world fits you.  Evolution says you fit the world. Gravity isnt 9.81m/s2 because thats what your body can take. You body evolved that way because that is what gravity is.

Bahamat-Yes we have DNA and we have a heart that beats and a mind that is 100,000,000+ times more powerful then a computer.  The world is perfect.  Or are we still in evolution stage maybe with all of the global warming bull that is going around now we will turn into more advanced creatures or species like humanfish.  How do you get life?  Why haven’t we evolved to live till 500, but we are limited to eighty like it says in the Bible.
When the theory is true it becomes a law.  And that is what they use to build bridges Newton’s laws.

A bee knows where to find the flowers to make fruits grow.
A bird finds her nest after traveling 100 miles.
Salmon gets back to his original nesting grounds.
A spider knows how and where to build a spider web.
A shark knows his job cleaning the ocean.
The sun shines on rich and poor.
But humans don’t know their creator.

Here’s something I can up with in a couple of minutes, I could go on but no time.  Like they say “time is money”.  But I say I wish time was money.

Yes we have DNA and we have a heart that beats and a mind that is 100,000,000+ times more powerful then a computer.

Define powerful - computers at current don’t solve problems like the brain because they don’t operate like the brain. Highly threaded architectures, distributed algorithms and multi-core systems (just in terms of AI) are making that easier and easier, and no, it’s not 100,000,000+ times. Hell, even 20 times is pushing it.

And again, that depends what we’re calling “power” - because computers can already do many things billions of times faster than a human being and with a near nil margin of error.

The world is perfect.

What is “the world”? Like, planet Earth? Hell no it’s not perfect. I live on it and it can’t even take a few trillion tonnes of fossil fuel emission without throwing a hissy fit.

turn into more advanced creatures or species like humanfish.

You don’t get evolution; go do some reading. By your point of view, nobody would ever drown cos they would just turn into water breathers. Evolution works on a much larger (and slower) scale.

How do you get life?  Why haven’t we evolved to live till 500, but we are limited to eighty like it says in the Bible.

Best idea we’ve got for how we got life is based in the notion of the primordial soup. Not a good answer, I admit, but better than inventing God to do the job. As far as age limits go, clearly we aren’t. My grandmother died last winter at 99, the oldest person in the world is 117-ish…

Konstantin, if you believe in God, do yourself a favor: stop making crap up. You are lying, to yourself and everyone else.

This seemed like an apposite quote for here:

MAN, n. An animal so lost in rapturous contemplation of what he thinks he is as to overlook what he indubitably ought to be. His chief occupation is extermination of other animals and his own species, which, however, multiplies with such insistent rapidity as to infest the whole habitable earth and Canada.

-from the Devil’s Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce.

I’m giving up on Konstantin.  To paraphrase Pauli, he’s not even wrong.

konstantin: Or are we still in evolution stage.

Evolution never stops (even for us), because genetic probability still applies.

maybe with all of the global warming bull that is going around now we will turn into more advanced creatures or species like humanfish

Global warming makes absolute sense as a concept to me; you have chemicals in the atmosphere (in quantities which have been measured), which are known to absorb + re-emit certain frequencies of light (found in the lab), and those frequencies include the IR+microwave region (heat energy). After absorbing some heat, it’ll emit, and since emission can occur in all directions, some of those directions will be back to earth, making it warmer.

By the way, evolution is a lazy process and would only make humanfish if there were survival pressures against land-bound humans. If it takes more energy to maintain a fish part/wings, it’ll come more as a disadvantage even.

Why haven’t we evolved to live till 500, but we are limited to eighty like it says in the Bible

People who survive much beyond reproduction age/season are a waste of food as far as evolution is concerned. Old people are not as able, either, and some organs do degrade with time. It’d only be more probable that people live longer for purely genetic reasons if people were able+likely to reproduce older

How do you get life?

That I don’t know, and the jump to conciousness is quite significant too…

Anyway, interestingly self-replicating molecules (DNA or an alternative) are necessary before self-replicating life could’ve come about, because you need a genetic code to make copies or evolve - so these molecules might’ve formed before reproducing life existed, and somehow merged into some non-reproducing life that was already present, and then somehow coded for something useful - it would’ve needed a lot of attempts at a time when the first coding molecules were much more random (no enzymes to help…)

Your list seemed one of roles - I suppose if a role needs doing (like polinating plants) and can provide something in return (nectar), then there’s a survival pressure for it to happen. 2 or more organisms living to benefit each other for mutual benefit is known as mutualism.

zilch: I’m giving up on Konstantin.  To paraphrase Pauli, he’s not even wrong.

Everybody but him knows that.

Now how to get Bahamat from feeding trolls? If he can’t be persuaded to take his attempts to reform the unreformable to private messages once everybody else has left, I’m almost willing to pay Les the renewal fees for the forum or set up a site for Bahamat if he’d just take his zeal there.

Elwed - I’m a parasite, I would struggle to write my own entires, and I doubt I’d have readers, so I tap into what’s here. Since I work on trolls, I can take advantage of this site’s magnetism for them, I’d struggle to draw them. I’d be happy to do private messages, but I wouldn’t call anybody unreformable, because that’s simply not true, it just takes time and aproach.

If you don’t handle the trolls you’re not curing the problem, just be complaining about it’s existence indefinitely without doing anything about to remove it. Besides, without trolls this blog would have little activity - look how much happens when one shows up, suddenly people can have a debate and test+challenge their ideas on somebody rather than just agreeing with each other as if there was only one person there, I doubt SEB would have the character it does (and hence attraction and fun) if it weren’t for it’s challenge, it’s the oppertunity to debate that gives it draw that you don’t get much elsewhere, otherwise why come?

It doesn’t bother me that Bahamat argues with trolls who exceed my patience. There are surely times when I am too impatient. And I have an irrational sympathy for those willing to tilt at windmills.

Bahamat- this is a first: you just wrote a comment that I understood in its entirety.  Sometimes I have the feeling that you’re in a parallel dimension not far from ours, but with a few of the parameters gently tweaked.

I agree with you and dof, and disagree with elwed (mit Verlaub- ich bitte um Gnade)- why not water the trolls and let a thousand flowers bloom?  If you fertilize them with dung (to stretch a metaphor to the snapping point), those who don’t want the stench can scroll further.  And if the exchange goes nuclear, we can always invoke Leshovah.

Zilch, it doesn’t matter to me if you or DOF agree with me or not.

Bahamat made it clear from the very beginning that he’d try to reason (his kind of reason, not reason reason) with the incorrigible and the outright trolls alike. He made good on that promise and I invariably unsubscribe from every thread he posts in—sooner or later. Given that he posts in virtually all the threads that otherwise interest me, he’ll ultimately succeed where the wingnuts and god botherers failed and make me read SEB via its atom feed only.

Unsubscribing.

As an experiment, next coupla (different) troll-threads i’ll try using only email to contact those that are the centre of debate, to see if unsubscribing still occurs without my input (this is the only way I can compare the effects of my presence). I’m interested and will be observing. Trolls tend to reply to most challengers, with determination, but is it the length of debate or the time-density of comments that does it, I wonder

Zilch - I wonder myself - this all comes as thought, but perhaps there are dimensions containing thought that can be linked to by the brain like a wireless network? Anyway, I do/also exist in the same 3 spatial and time dimensions, in order to physically influence my environment+ keyboard

And it’s good news to my plan that I can sometimes communicate comprehendably, because then it gets through and infiltrates the target mind, which is otherwise difficult to do when trying to change things

And it’s good news to my plan that I can sometimes communicate comprehendably, because then it gets through and infiltrates the target mind, which is otherwise difficult to do when trying to change things

I wish I had the same confidence when I’m talking to Creationists…

Here’s a stratergy that might help:

1) Find an idea that’s logically undeniable (though would probably encounter emotional resistence by evading logic)
Perhaps think: If something was (a certain way) then it probably would/wouldn’t (verb/stance towards a topic) because it would/wouldn’t have a compelling net reason

2) Pin them down on that point, try to force them to deal with it, go deeper into it and the explanation if you need to

Though I’ve come to realise everyone if free to flee conversation or simply not answer/deal with something should they choose to, there is only so much you can do, and that is in part determined by how much determination they have in discussion -emotions can be used to our advantage here because you can tie your target into discussion.

Ideas, like trees, take a while to grow in people. They also show up by themselves in the person’s general approach, don’t ask to see if someone’s taken on a new idea because they might feel compelled to align against you and discard any progress that has been made (at least on the surface)

I appreciate your willingness to try, Bahamat.  I’ve seen creationists hammered with “Kangaroos?” over and over and watched them never answer that one simple question while continuing to spew the same garbage.

And yet - your simile of planting trees is apt.  It is unlikely that anyone will abandon a cherished position in the course of an argument.  The counterargument keeps working on them until much later, they think to themselves; “dammit, he’s right.”

DOF: It is unlikely that anyone will abandon a cherished position in the course of an argument.  The counterargument keeps working on them until much later, they think to themselves; “dammit, he’s right.”

Exactly; for me as long as it happens at some point, mission accomplished, though the sooner it happens the sooner the pain will end.

Some trees might wait many years until the right situation fertilizes them, but it will be there when it needs to be because I planted it, as long as I make the information available they will know where to look when they want to study it. They may need to follow a similar path of thought to reach the same conclusions, so something too far away they might not be able to engage with or it might appear evil, but, if you look for the intention behind it always clarifies things

Some trees might wait many years until the right situation fertilizes them, but it will be there when it needs to be because I planted it.

Ahh, Chauncey Gardiner, you are wise… 

I personally have no problem with Bahamat playing the White Knight. The way I see it, he has a better chance of winning over the other side than anyone else at this point.

Thankyou

I blame DRM.

Remember that we’re not just playing to the creationists who fly through, but to the lurkers and fence-sitters who are quietly watching and being influenced more than people like Konstantin.

True, and they probably count the most in numbers.
Unfortunately we can’t easily tune into them without feedback, and they might skip over what is obvious to them, but I’m sure they do come across points that interest them, otherwise they wouldn’t return

The problem with convincing them is you can see a pattern in anything if you look hard enough.

For instance proof the Christian Calendar predicts computers. 

Halloween = Christmas
because
31 Oct = 25 Dec.
Now if I could only work out when the 19th of Hexember was.

Patness-There’s people that live up to 120.  What’s the average? 
Bahamat-You seem smart and know what’s going on.  Who thought you that?  Do you know the Asch experiment?  And there is no global warming. (my personal opinion which will stay with me until I start to feel the water get up to my knees.)
Last_Hussar- Christians don’t celebrate dates because no one knows when exactly things took place.  Maybe Sunday should be Wednesday who knows?  So holiday dates are irrelevant.  We celebrate the facts.  We just celebrated thanks giving in our church two weeks ago.
“1) Find an idea that’s logically undeniable (though would probably encounter emotional resistence by evading logic)”
How about God created us because there is no other logical way looking at it?

It’s a funny argument. Basically it says that this god fellow will beat the shit out of us all for not proclaiming him the king of mercy and kindness, until we submit to the guy.

I mean, even if I had any shred of doubt in my mind that he wasn’t a delusion of the devout that’s a pretty fucked up selling point.

It’s obvious. The Christian god is like the Godfather, waiting in the wings to give all of us a great big French kiss “I knew it was you, Les. You broke my heart,” and Christians are like the mafia. Tithe, or you’ll go to hell. Is it that far of from “protection money?”

Basically religion is terrorism and organized crime. Beautiful.

Leslie, you disrespected me, you turned away my son, you were family, you walked out huh. Wassa your Mamma gonna say…

No, No, I’m sorry, I can’t keep the the Sub-Brandon accent up, and the Holy Ghost is laughing- thinks I’m more Inspector Clouseax than Godfather.  I’ve made him write out JC’s prayer a million times to show him yes I am, but I think Michael and Gabriel are helping him.

I do wish the shop floor wouldn’t keep using be as some sort of threat. What sort of god goes round breaking athiests’ windows. Well yes Thor, but I’ve made him promise not to do that any more.

While I’m here…I don’t usually do requests but apparently someone needs to know “Behind the clock on the dining room mantlepiece.”  Does that make any sense?