Jeeeeeeezus!!!! I want so badly to believe this is a joke.

I’ve been worrying about what Roy Moore was cooking up, and now I know.

I feel sick.

You live in a scary country. You realize that Bush has been quoted as saying (I paraphrase) that atheists should not be considered citizens.

What worries me is that ideas from the Religious Reich flow across our shared border, free trade or not.

Good luck.

Wow.  american’s alway find some way to surprise me.

I hope you compain long and clear about this.

Thanks for posting this Eric, I was meaning to link it up myself earlier after reading it off of Scott’s site. I’m so angry I’m beside myself right now.

I am not sure about this particular ammendment posted but the the most certain ammendment that will be made will be to define marriage.  there should be no one single religion or any for that matter but we must hold true to the fabric that holds our nation together and that is family.  the downfall of every great civilization has been the legalization and acceptance of same sex marriage.

The fabric that holds our nation together is FREEDOM.

Family is great. But family is defined by more than just the product (or potential product) of one’s loins. You can’t go around defining family for other people.

Surely I’m also party to the downfall of our civilization. I’m married and yet refuse to have children and be a nice hetero family unit.

[crash!] Sorry guys, my fault.

How can any rational, thinking person possibly support ANY of this bullshit?  This is America!  Worship Jesus or Satan or a pile of catshit for all I care, but do it in the privacy of your own home.  Keep your bloody, perverted mitts off the Constitution; and your judgemental hypocrisy to yourselves.

We need a revolution, people!  A small number of vocal people are marching us toward a theocracy, because they’re the only people VOTING.

And ^5 to ya Brandi!  I share your nausea over what’s becoming of my country… truly heartbreaking.  I believe Lady Liberty may be breathing her last.

Great site, BTW :-D

Oh, I vote. And shit like this in recent years can take the credit for that.

In a strange way, I’m glad alot of these ridiculous issues are coming to a head. I think it motivates alot of people who wouldn’t otherwise vote or care to do so.

These types of lifestyle nazis have always been present in our culture. I don’t think they’re anything new. It just used to be easier for them to operate under the radar of the average enlightened American. But the internet sure does make it hard for them to hide, doesn’t it? Their crimes against our sanity fly over blogs and message boards like raging wildfire, often rivaling the speed of traditional news outlets, I’ve noticed. And I just love that.

the downfall of every great civilization has been the legalization and acceptance of same sex marriage
Oh please! Same sex marriage has been legal in Sweden for years and our civilization has not crumbled yet.

maria i said great civilizations, not just nations that want to exist.  you must understand that to have something great there must be sacrifice.  America is a great nation because it leads.  It leads because its leaders have some type of value that are based on BELIEFS. Yes peopel in America have the right to worship whatever they want even a pile of catshit.  but i doubt a person who worships a pile of catshit is willing to die for that catshit or anything else he or she believes.  Sweden and many other countries are indiffernt, and lukewarm to much of the worlds issues.  what has been swedens latest contribution as a government?

It is things like this makes me ashamed to be from Colorado and have Wayne Allard as my Senator.
aperbag:
Our Founding Fathers must be doing somersaults in their graves.  What happened to separation of Church and State?
As far as Atheists not being citizens according to the shrub, I wouldn’t be surprised.  He’s already has said that he doesn’t think Witches are should have any rights.

Brandi how do you define freedom?  freedom to do whatever the individual feels or chooses?  why do you think we have any laws at all.  why is it a crime to speed, steal, rape, or murder?  if we allow EVERYONE to do as they feel, then we would have chaos.  unfortunately there are people in our nation that need others to do the thinking for them.  why cant someone define family for them?  obviously some people do not know what family is.  what is the definition of honesty?  What is the definition of truth?  people today want to make their own rules and definitions.  that is not freedom, it is chaos.

amanda, you should be proud to live in colorado, the great home of john elway!  as for your belief in the comment of bush toward atheists, i suggest you have it documented before you accept it as truth.  as far as our founding fathers, if you would research it, the modern day definition of church and state is a myth.  America is America because of the God it trusts.  And that God is not mankind.

As far as I can remember, Sweden has made some absolutely dynamite contributions just about every year.  I am sorry to say that they haven’t contributed any wars to the world at large lately… work harder Sweden… I’m rootin’ for ya!

I’ve never understood the “my country is the only one that’s worth a shit” attitude. 

Frac: That was the elder Bush if I remember correctly.

kevin....there are lots of countries that make contributions.  britian for example.  but America is the greatest nation on earth. no matter who is in office. rep, dem, lib, or ind.  the people in america that choose to stand for what is good and right make America a great nation.

I think my wife is the best, my kids are the best, my school is the best, and i think my nation is the best. sorry if that offends you.

I don’t think my country is the best just cos I happened to be born here, that would be incredibly lucky don’t you think?  Sure a lot of people have local loyalties, but I suspect that every die-hard football fan in America secretly knows that his local team he loves are not necessarily the best, otherwise how come they don’t win everything. Give me Sweden anyday

Good lord, Randall. “Freedom” is not anarchy or chaos. Freedom means that, yes, you have the right to do whatever you want SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS. It is not a difficult concept. That’s why we have laws about stealing, rape, and murder...they unjustly infringe on others.

You can’t define family for others simply because it is none of your business. Their choice in definition of family does not infringe on the rights of anyone else.

Tell me, since you seem to be pretty smug about your definition of family...what is it? And why?

I’m a married heterosexual, do I fit your definition of family/marriage?

Randall is cracking me up. I know I shouldn’t be laughing because he’s representative of too much of the population, but he’s so impressively knee-jerk in his thinking that I can’t help myself. All emotion, no substance. He has solid beliefs, but nothing in the way of valid reasons for them. Why is his country the best? Because it’s HIS country! Same reason his wife, kids, school, car, dog, outdoor grill, underwear and cologne are the best! If it’s his then it MUST be the BEST! That’s just too damned funny.

the downfall of every great civilization has been the legalization and acceptance of same sex marriage.

Name one.

you must understand that to have something great there must be sacrifice.

So what did you sacrifice to have your great wife, kids, etc?

America is a great nation because it leads. It leads because its leaders have some type of value that are based on BELIEFS.

I wish this nation would lead more on the basis of facts than of beliefs. Bush Jr. believed there were WMDs in Iraq, his belief has so far proven to be far from the facts. Oops.

Brandi how do you define freedom? freedom to do whatever the individual feels or chooses? why do you think we have any laws at all. why is it a crime to speed, steal, rape, or murder? if we allow EVERYONE to do as they feel, then we would have chaos.

The Founding Fathers defined it as being free to do whatever you want as long as it doesn’t harm the person or property of another. That’s a pretty basic, but decent viewpoint to take in my book. You’re correct that society does require a certain level of cooperation among it’s members which includes rules restricting one’s freedom to some degree, but what you’re describing is far view most people’s views on what Freedom should be.

unfortunately there are people in our nation that need others to do the thinking for them. why cant someone define family for them?

Why can’t we just show these people why thinking for themselves is preferable? Oh, I’m sorry, I keep forgetting that you don’t really want a populace capable of thinking for themselves as they might disagree with your personal viewpoints. What makes you think you should be the one doing the thinking for these people?

obviously some people do not know what family is. what is the definition of honesty? What is the definition of truth? people today want to make their own rules and definitions. that is not freedom, it is chaos.

Disputes over definitions is hardly chaos. It can confuse the situation and it’s helpful if we all agree on what something means, but chaos isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

amanda, you should be proud to live in colorado, the great home of john elway! as for your belief in the comment of bush toward atheists, i suggest you have it documented before you accept it as truth.

John Elway is an asshole, but that’s just my personal opinion. I do agree with you encouraging Amanda to verify the quote from Bush on atheists, however. For the record it was Bush Sr. who said it at a news conference in Chicago on August 27, 1987 to a question posed by Rob Sherman who was covering the event. You can read about it here. Sherman’s been called upon to prove the quotation many times and he’s recently located an official record of the exchange. The quote reads as follows: “I don’t know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic.  This is one nation under God.”

as far as our founding fathers, if you would research it, the modern day definition of church and state is a myth. America is America because of the God it trusts. And that God is not mankind.

You obviously haven’t researched it. We’ve covered this one many times here at SEB. I suggest you do some searching through our archives. Jefferson and Adams both spoke on the issue and made it clear this was the intent of the First Amendment. “In God We Trust” didn’t become the official national motto until 1956 so calling upon that as proof of our religious heritage is dubious at best.

This is just sad. Laughingly so. I really wish someone would show up who has some new arguments to make on these issues rather than just trumpeting the same tired old crap over and over again.

That sort of thinking really does represent a large part of the population, and it scsres the bejeezus out of me. It reminds me much of my rudimentary take on things (minus religion) when I was 16. Those are often the conclusions about freedom and the purpose of laws that many people come to when left on their own or never think it through. And precious few ever get past it…

If only everyone was as lucky as I to have Mr. Draveky for highschool Government class.

les, i am glad that i am cracking you up perhaps it will get the old endorphins rollin in your system…

dave where do you live?  america rules!!!

George W. weighs in.

From CNN Breaking News. “President Bush announces he supports a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.”

Okay, a few replies since I started typing, so my apologies if I end up repeating someone’s remarks…

the downfall of every great civilization has been the legalization and acceptance of same sex marriage

Yeah… just what they teach in every Western Civ and World History class. 

Care to give us some examples?  Apparently most people here don’t buy into your statement. 

I can’t seem to remember how butt sex felled the Roman Empire from my Western Civ class.  The Romans sure seemed to be doing fine before that Jesus dude showed up…

It leads because its leaders have some type of value that are based on BELIEFS.

The English have beliefs, and have for quite some time.  So what happened to that world spanning English Empire that the sun never sat on?  The Spanish have beliefs - they and the Portuguese had the Pope’s blessing on splitting the New World and Africa between themselves and coverting all those heathens.  So, like, what happened to those empires of the faithful? 

America leads right now b/c we are the biggest f’ing dog on the street. 

people today want to make their own rules and definitions. that is not freedom, it is chaos.

Chaos is the LACK of rules and definitions. 

unfortunately there are people in our nation that need others to do the thinking for them. why cant someone define family for them? obviously some people do not know what family is.

Ahh, freedom bad… people shouldn’t be thinking for themselves.  Bastards might end up disagreeing with you.  Tolerance and understanding might break out - wouldn’t that be the end of society.

Randall, you can feel proud about the US all you want. Its a healthy feeling, as long as it doesn’t blind you to the bad parts. Your comments however show that you seem to consider criticism of your country slanderous (get right in line with Mrs. Coulter).

The great thing about democracy and a free press is that all kinds of people can try their hand at the problems of their society. Its not a perfect tool to reach ‘the best for the largest number of people’* but it’s the best and most adaptable we’ve found so far.

Far better than having one man or a small slice of the people telling us how to live.

*By the way: add ‘while respecting the basic rights of all’ and you got a nice improvised recipe for utopia.

Sorry Les, you got me on the Atheist thing.  I can just see shrub saying the same thing about Atheists that he did about Witches.  Considering that his daddy said it, he probably believes it is true anyway.
Regardless, this whole thing just bugs me.  I hold out hope that someone in Congress with a brain will rebuff this effort.  However, since they passed the DoMA, I don’t have high expectations.

ingolfson.....you’ve got me all wrong.  yes i am proud to be an American, but I am not blind to the bad parts.  I do not agree with all of any of bush’s ideas.  i do not think that we are a great a nation as we once were.  i am no where near mrs. coulter.  i believe that every American has the right to say whatever about our country they want even if it slanderous, and would not have ill feelings toward the person that did so.  i think our nation is in trouble in many areas, economically, socially, education, etc.  America is great because of the people, Christian, muslim, atheist.  it is great because of the rich, and poor.  you are right about free press and democracy.  thats whats cool about this web-site different beliefs, opinions etc.  i do not want people to think exactly how i think.  if so every one would hunt, cheer for john elway, and go to my church.  the fact that each of us has a free will, with an ability to choose and think for themselves is to me what really shows God’s love for us.  there are probably a few things that you could see about my life, family, church etc that i do not see that could help me out.  i am not a right winger republican Christian, i am just a guy that cares.