Are you left-handed Daryll (if that is your real name)? It’s tough because people are always telling you the same things: “Dude, why don’t you just become right-handed/Christian”.

Why? That means the majority of white Christian right-handed straight men have won again. Are you that afraid of diversity? Diversity is what has made lots of countries great. The Republic of Ireland had no diversity either until recently, when lots of Africans started living there (albeit because the Irish stole them from Africa to use them as priests).

So, how is being an atheist easy? You have to think for yourself? No security blanket of God? No looking forward to The Great Gig in the Sky™?

It’s certainly easy — in a parallel universe. Were you talking about this?

Daryl Cantrell,

90% of the world’s population would trade places with you in a heartbeat.

I call that “ethnocentricity” or “Nationalism.” Only 10% of the entire world would not trade places with Brock or Bo$$ or Les or even me if given the chance, heh?

I highly doubt that is accurate.

Nope, Brock is just feeling “Left-Wing Shame�? because he doesn’t belong to any of the well-defined victim groups.  Not to worry: look hard enough and you’ll be able to figure out some way The Man is supposedly keeping you down.

Apparently you didn’t read the posts closely enough because Brock clearly stated that he posted that way specifically:
DOF said:

Could be… only need to change one word.  And that may be Brock’s point.  Brock, did we get it?

Brock said:

Yes, of course you got it. TheBo$$, your last line wasn’t as irrelevant as you thought. It made me chuckle so it was worth saying.

As well, IIRC, Brock has talked about his sexuality in several other threads menaing that he does belong to one of your “well-defined victim groups”.  Sounds to me that this little “Left-Wing Shame” of which you spoke holds about as much water as the “liberal media bias”.  I guess that you will have to listen to some more Rush so you can have some new buzzwords along with the rest of the “Dittoheads”.  (And who the hell would intentionally want to be known as a parroter?  Never have figured that one out.) That is assuming that Rush isn’t too doped up on narcs to hold a coherent conversation.  Hmmm… that certainly would explain quite a bit…

Heh, warbi, I first thought you were talking about the band, not the pundit.

Shows how my mind works, eh?

Daryl Cantrell said: I’ve been an atheist and a Christian in my life, and I can honestly say it’s easier to be an atheist.

(Cue in sound of Johnny Cash singing; “I’ve been every-where, man, I’ve been every-where!”

So your experience is normative for all the diversity that is this country?  Daryl, your life is a rather small sample for such a sweeping generalization when many atheists have encountered real discrimination.  Nor do I understand what you mean by “easier.”

Of course, maybe by “Christian” you mean; “constant bible thumper driving his neighbors and co-workers nuts.” Those critters are probably just as small a percentage as atheists and may find people sometimes find others to hire/rent-to/talk-to.  That’s not anti-religious descrimination, it’s anti-jerk discrimination.

But evangelicals are always saying Christians are the majority in this country, then turning around and whining about how persecuted they are.  Well which is it?  ‘Cuz it ain’t likely to be both.

Being an evangelical means having the majority power and getting to whine about persecution too!  The Christian codes himself as trustworthy by putting on a popular identity, which is a lot easier than actually being trustworthy.

An atheist has no one to fall back on for his moral identity, and in many instances starts with being perceived as amoral at best.  Nor do we get a “get out of jail free card.”

Yes, there are other places in the world where religious persecution is really bad, but that doesn’t make such persecution as exists in this country right.

I’m left handed.
I’m a non-practicing Jew.
I’m on my way to becoming a Nurse, and I’m male (one of two per every 25 females in the program at school).
I’m also on my way to becoming an athiest, because given the shit that has happened to me, I’m beggining to believe that there aint no way there’s a GOD. If there is, he’s a cruel one.

Talk about going against the grain. My catholic wife does not appreciate me telling her that I’m giving up on putting any stock in the concept of a higher power.

Oh Well.

Oh, and I cant spell sometimes.
And I’m dyslexic.
And I have A.D.D.

>>sigh<<

I dont see why the Christian bible thumpers just cant go there own way. Does it really matter to them if we go to hell? If they wish to praise the lord then they should be able to but if they try and convert me.... Well, then it is just not cool.

And what about this aetheist discrimination? I have never been discriminated against for my agnostic/atheistic views. I might be in a more liberal area than you lot but why some one would go out of there way to convert/put down an atheist astounds me. According to the bible thumpers atheists are some sort of evil group of people here to corrupt the minds of the poor defenseless children. Well, if that is so what makes them think that going to church would change that? If you are mean then you are mean no matter what your religious affiliation.

Cheers BunBun

BunBun, having lived in East Tennessee, knowing employers there, I am certain an open atheist would face additional employment and rental challenges.  Secularhumanism.org has documented a number of cases where actual discrimination has taken place and resulted in legal action.  (Legal actions are a smoke/fire thing.  For every reported case, there are many unreported.)

Discrimination is a symptom of prejudice, and that’s the real problem.  The prejudice is real and I see it all the time.  In letters to the editor and “From The Pulpit” articles, atheists are portrayed as amoral, or evil, unpatriotic, self-serving and dishonest.  Of course Christians are never any of those things.

If you substituted any ethnic group for “atheist” in the wide-open stereotyping that constantly goes on in the paper, on the radio, and in the workplace in my home town, you’d be in deep smell. But people who don’t believe in the invisible superfriend are fair game, apparently.

Christians and atheists both have jerks among their number.  The difference is the Christian jerks can say or do some very disrespectful things and still be publically “respectable.” The playing field tips severely.

Warbi said: As well, IIRC, Brock has talked about his sexuality in several other threads menaing that he does belong to one of your “well-defined victim groups�?.

Ah hell, dude! Why’d you have to go and tell Daryl I’m gay? What’s he gonna think of me now?  I was so close to being perceived as normal (or at least “left wing” normal and Daryl probably considers that an oxymoron) by him that I was trying to figure out how to make a .5 baby.

I have more cache with my little victims group membership than Daryl could ever have being a ditto head. At the very least I can take pride in my right-handedness if not my even-handedness but I’m wondering what fucked-up group Daryl places me above. Hell, I bet even KKK members have an easier time being validated in his world. At least they believe in God.

I dont see why the Christian bible thumpers just cant go there own way.

It’s not really that hard to understand. Try putting yourself in their place. Pretend that you actually believe in the invisible man in the sky and that man tells you that everyone that doesn’t believe in and follow him is condemned to spend an eternity burning in hell. Now, if you are a decent human being and you run across people that you KNOW are going to spend eternity burning in hell, wouldn’t you feel obligated to try to save them?

I don’t like it, it annoys the hell out of me, but I do understand it.

I dont know if I would be happy to have more people to piss of about religion or greatly annoyed. It would be fun to point out the blatent contradictions inherant in the bible but if every one is against you then that might become tiresom if you simply get drowned out by enough people.

My favorite contradiction is based on the monotheism that christianity so adores. In the genesis book many referances to god is in the plural. How do people explaine that away? That seems to go directly against what the christian churh is so obsessed with. And of course: the father, the son, and the holy ghost. Thats three gods if I can count. That is another little problem in the bible/christianity that I have never heard coherantly explained.

Decrepid I like this:

In letters to the editor and “From The Pulpit�? articles, atheists are portrayed as amoral, or evil, unpatriotic, self-serving and dishonest.  Of course Christians are never any of those things.

Well, of course the christians are never that. They worship an invisible force that makes them all moral simply because they believe in a book written before the dark ages and worship the said force. Or did you not know that? Everyone knows that being a christian makes you automatically moral. Just like the priests that sexually abuse little boys that keep cropping up.

Cheers BunBun

I am a female, left-handed atheist who lives in the south.  Not so long ago, I received the same email forward twice in the same week, once from my sister, and once from an old friend.  The email was an online “petition to George Bush to allow prayer in schools.” and ended with the statement “Madeline Murray-O’hair is dead - let her legacy of atheism die with her!”

On a normal day, I delete this stuff but I was a bit cranky.  My family should know better, so I wrote a response to my sister and my friend outlining why I felt that the petition was useless (by giving a short explanation of how our government actually works), explaining why allowing prayer in schools would be unfair (who’s prayer?  Muslims?  Buddhists? Wiccans?) and ending with some thoughts on the constitution and the separation of church and state, adding some quotes from our founding fathers for good measure. 

The response I got back from my sister blew my mind.  I was attacked, personally and viciously.  I was informed that had it not been for “god” all manner of foul fates would have befallen me, from prostitution to death.  My sister then proceeded to tell outright lies about the supposed generosity and faithfulness of some of our family members.  It was insane.  It made me cry.  My brother and a cousin got involved to try to sooth things over.  I decided I was having none of it. 

I got a less vicious, but no less surprising response from my friend of 12 years.  Neither of them have spoken to me since. 

A couple weeks ago I found out that my sister has been thrown out of her house by her husband for having an affair.  Apparently she was so busy condemning my lack of morality that she forgot to mind her own.

KPG said: Now, if you are a decent human being and you run across people that you KNOW are going to spend eternity burning in hell, wouldn’t you feel obligated to try to save them?

True, and world hunger was wiped out 2000 years ago. People are so incredibly caring!

Loris; that’s a bummer story but you spoke what you believed. That had to be the best thing you could have done.

Sorry that my big mouth blew your cover, Brock! I know how sneaky you have been about it too- you know being the “Gay Pope” and all.  lol
KPatrick, you make an excellent point.  I find that I don’t mind (as much) the truly well-meaning proselytizers as I do the obnoxious sanctimonious blowhards that get in your face and rant and rave.  Unfortunately, the latter seem to be, if not more numerous, at least more vocal.

Warbi, as atheists we see the worst side of any christian. From their viewpoint, we are far worse than members of another religion. At least Muslims or Wiccans or so on worship SOMETHING, just not their something. We hold ourselves above them, using logic and reason to declare there is no god. By extention we are calling them all stupid and naive for believing in their deity. Our very existence insults them.

Warbi good point:

I find that I don’t mind (as much) the truly well-meaning proselytizers as I do the obnoxious sanctimonious blowhards that get in your face and rant and rave.

I suppose that if someone came to me and, with genuine concern, asked me to believe in god I would be willing to hear them out. Simply because they are polite. People like that I can respect. I would not be inclined to actually listen to the polite person who comes to talk to me but I definitely see your point about politeness.

I also bet that if they use a more polite means of onversion than screaming that you will go to hell if you dont follow the invisible frind they would get better results. At worst they would not be laughed at by the people they are trying to convert.

I also bet that if they use a more polite means of onversion than screaming that you will go to hell if you dont follow the invisible frind they would get better results. At worst they would not be laughed at by the people they are trying to convert.

Do you really get people screaming and raving? While I get a lot of folks attempting to convert me, I have to admit that I’ve never had a ranter. They’ve all approached me nicely with their little pamphlets and most of them take the inevitable rejection rather well.

From their viewpoint, we are far worse than members of another religion.

I beg to differ. If my experience on religious forums is representative, the majority of invective is directed towards members of closely related, similar religions. Atheist bashing is rare and mostly a hobby of some usual suspects.

I, personally, have never had the experiance of any one seriously trying to convert me. I live in too liberal an area for that type of stuff. But I have heard all about people shouting and argueing. I dont have any real experiance in the field of conversion (and I hope it stays that way) so I cant say my opinions are bound to be acurate.

Maybe we just hear about the screamers simply because thay make themselves heard in a MUCH more vocal way—screaming their ass of. Every now and then when I tell people I do not believe in god they are incredulious and ask how can I not believe in god? My usual answer to that is: “how can you believe in god?” They have far less evidence for the existance of god than I have for the lack of existance of god.

Although, some times, I think it would be nice to get some bible thumper shouting at me. I think that really takes away from their argument. People who are screaming their agruments out are probably doing that because they are trying to drown out the opposition with noise because they know they are full of shit. If you cant reply to their arguments because of their screaming then how can youp make a defense against the mindless following of a transendental force? I guess that may be their logic? I dont know...I guess people who dont believe in god dont deserve a legitimate argument?

Cheers BunBun

Hell, I live here in the Holyland (Tulsa, OK) and have to put up with religion every day. Christians down here are different. In most places, Christians say they can get to Heaven by avoiding sin; in Oklahoma, the plan to get to Heaven by making their neighbors avoid sin. the plain fact is that the World would be a much better place if all the religionists lived as if they actually believed. In twenty years in Oklahoma, I don’t think I have met more than a half dozen who acted like they really believed in Jesus. I can stand those people, but the rest just make my stomache churn. It really is Hell trying to live as a liberal, tree hugging, born-again atheist in this neck of the woods. And it’s so much fun pissing them off. It took eight years, but the local Baptist preacher finally gave up on me. Also, good news, enough good folks rebelled against the latest crap, and managed to keep the creationist display out of the local zoo. See, we aren’t all hicks.

Hicks.... Lol. I agree:

In most places, Christians say they can get to Heaven by avoiding sin; in Oklahoma, the plan to get to Heaven by making their neighbors avoid sin.

Just dont forget to add that by making one’s neighbors avoid sin negates any sin they may have done(no matter how insidious).

I wonder what people here would get out of Nietzche(spelling?). From the very little I read of him he blames all of the worlds problems on christianity. Its weakness specifically. He believed that christianity made humanity weak, forgiving, and charitable through christianity. I guess he never visited little villages in the middle of texas that believe that all non christians should be purged in order to make humanity a better place(could not help but pick o texas).

Cheers BunBun

Just to compare notes, have a look at Jews for Judaism. They too have a few bones to pick with Christian evangelicals.

Same here with an aetheist family. I never get any good reactions when I say i’m agnostic/aetheist. I have not really pissed any one of saying that in a long time, sometimes i will get into arguments where the other person says something like “You really dont believe in god? Or go to church? Wow�?.

Never had any problems being an atheist here in Germany (suburbia and city environment, though). I got more flak for my parents being communist activists (and my mom was a communist town council member ).

Brock - love your new avatar!

I mean your old one was really a bit over the top, but this one is very clearly a true-blue (or should that be yellow?) right-handed american avatar.

I’d say most Christians in Amerikkka tend to be pretty open about various other Christian franchises (Baptist, Pentacostal, Catholic, Mormon, etc), even about Judaism, Islam and other mostly monotheic beLIEf systems.  Because they buy into this new-age (rhymes with “sewage") idea “well, we are all really worshipping the same Gawwwd—just by different names.

But they truly are at a loss, and see you as an evil alien being if you “come out” to them as an atheist.

Running my own business in a small town, even in a liberal part of the USA - I’d be screwed out of a lot of work if I was very publically outspoken about it.  And, really - I shouldn’t need to be, everybody should be able to beLIEve whatever idiocy they want to as long as they don’t involve me in it (or my taxes, laws, children in wars, but thats another story).  So, I generally just behind the scenes leave stickers and flyers about, put comments on money, and etc—but only really talk about religion/spirituality when somebody makes some idiotic superstitious comment to me.

There was one yesterday evening “and here kids, the book most families in the world have - the Bible”. Said the librarian to a group of kids (includeing mine).  I quietly afterwards pointed out “book every family has? Did you know 2/3rds of humanity are NOT Christian?” She didn’t believe me! I said, “your a librarian, look it up!”

Grrrr. I’m sure she dutifully submitted my name to the Ministry of Homeland Security, for not behaving like a good ‘Merikan!