I think it’s hilarious that “clean” comes immediately after “Christian.”

What in the fuck?
So, somehow, we aren’t ethical anymore.
And I thought dictionaries/thesauri (thesauruses?) were trustable things.

Atheist
So now I’m a heathen?

That IS what most people mean by ethical.  I have heard them used as synonyms many times.

At least it didn’t have “atheist” as one of the antonyms!

OMFG

Moloch: So now I’m a heathen?

And a freethinker.

On the other hand, who’s surprised anymore?

On the other hand, maybe they included the term “Christian” in a sort of lower-case “c” sense (even though it is obviously capitalized)--you know, alluding to the way Christians are allegedly supposed to behave, even though many don’t?

But probably they mean it they way we suspect they do. 

By the way (and monstrously off-topic), Mrs. SEB, your avatar is teh groovy!

Note that “kosher” is also included, but qualified with “informal or slang”.
Mrs. SEB- ditto what Sadie said about your avatar.  Too cool for school!

Well. Y’know, I’d always thought, mistakenly it turns out, that ethics were distinct from morals in that ethics were determined by evaluating the outcomes of a given course of action in terms of their impact on others; whereas morals were simply traditional beliefs based partly on common sense and partly on the cultural context. ie I would have thought a doctor could not ethically refuse treatment, but might by way of their morals. I have unlearnt something here, but i’m not sure that i have learnt something more appropriate or correct.

(for aussies) Further i thought, if what i had previously thought of as a fairly reliable reference could do this, what would the companion to the worlds only dictionary (that i own) that has less definitions the bigger it gets, the Macquarie, do?

ethical adj 1. Medicinal 2. Moral

What is the moral of this story? Buy a Collins.

And for rogets? Politely worded emails or, my personal favourite, fire (and lots of it)?

Yeah, moral and ethical are not technically supposed to be synoyms, even though they are listed as such.  I’ve always thought the following definitions fit:

ethical - Being in accordance with the accepted principles of right and wrong that govern the conduct of a profession.

moral - Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.

(Both Taken from Dictionary.com btw).

Being a RPG geek, I also have a shade of bias on this issue since morality and ethics are strictly divided in some games in the matter of character alignments (sorry for any non-D&D geeks reading this).

The worst thing is that Moral, being a synonym, has Christian as the first synonym under the thesaurus entery as well. 

Looks like they have cornered the market by gosh, we’d better just pack it up and by some of Pascal’s Lottery tickets....

I’m surprised that so many of you weren’t aware of this already. You need to keep in mind that English is a living language where the usage of words evolves over time. Dictionaries and the like are explanations of how words are used and defined by the general usage, not necessarily the final word (if you will) on what its meaning should be.

In theory, at least, if enough people start using the word “Christian” to mean “dirty, rotten, lying, scumbag” then sooner or later the Dictionaries would be updated to reflect that usage. The fact that most dictionaries were the product of religious people probably had a lot to do with how definitions were set up to begin with.  For example the word “Pagan” is a direct reflection of this Christian bias as its original meaning was “anyone who isn’t a Christian” and then a bit later was modified to “anyone who isn’t a Christian, Muslim, or Jew.”

Hi SEB—

Been a daily lurker since introduced to the site by ***Dave. Let’s remember that dictionaries and thesauri *reflect* how society thinks. The alternative is for dictionaries and thesauri to *define* what we think, aka Newspeak and 1984.

Let us take this as a challenge - atheist and Christian (et al) alike - and maybe it will be reflected:

Let your ethics define your religion (or lack thereof); don’t let on your religion (or thesaurus.com!) define your ethics.

Similarly, assess’s others’ religious beliefs individually by their ethics, not their ethics by their religious beliefs.

Tony
an ethical follower of Big Sky Daddy

Look at the bright side.  You’ve got Nietzsche on your side proclaiming you to be the master morality.  We Christians are just a slave morality.

Memes -> wiki

People here in Austria still say “Christian” (christlich) to mean “good"- but nowadays often more or less ironically, as in “ein christlicher Preis” (a good price).  Probably no one here is old enough to remember the compliment “that’s mighty white of you”.  And don’t forget that the “barbarians” are the people who say “bar, bar”; in other words, those who can’t speak proper Greek.

And don’t forget that the “barbarians� are the people who say “bar, bar�; in other words, those who can’t speak proper Greek.

I thought, and have now reconfirmed, that the ‘barbarians’ was a term europeans have used since the darkages for african/arab raiders from north west of africa ala the barbary coast

(newbq) is this nitpicking or not conducive to the discussion ? just trivial is all

Les: In theory, at least, if enough people start using the word “Christian” to mean “dirty, rotten, lying, scumbag” then sooner or later the dictionaries would be updated to reflect that usage.

OK, I’ll start: George Bush is a Christian.

Sexy Sadie the same can be said for your new Avatar.
Be seeing you!

Sadie, I miss your old avatar, for entirely prurient reasons.

DoF: Sadie, I miss your old avatar, for entirely prurient reasons.

I agree entirely.
Then I try to figure the motives that may have caused the changing and get nowhere. I suppose that avatar had run its course.
I may as well ask; Sadie, what’s the story of your new avatar?

That is a bad sign for a person who puts a lot of trust in reference books.

1.  Jeez, guys, it’s not a conspiracy.  (At least, if it is, nobody’s clued me in on it.) As noted, dictionaries and thesaurii are descriptive, not proscriptive.  One could just as easily imagine someone deciding this was all a conspiracy by Jewish publishers because “kosher” is also listed.

As a largely Christian nation (and liguistic group), it isn’t surprising that “Christian” is used by some as a synonym for “ethical.” What’s sad is how often that’s not the case.

2.

Let your ethics define your religion (or lack thereof); don’t let on your religion (or thesaurus.com!) define your ethics.

I’m not sure I agree—to some extent it should be a feedback loop (what one believes influences what one does and how one does it; what one does and how one does it influences how one believes).

3.

I thought, and have now reconfirmed, that the ‘barbarians’ was a term europeans have used since the darkages for african/arab raiders from north west of africa ala the barbary coast

No, the original writer was correct.  It’s from the Greeks, and refers to non-Greeks who spoke babbling noises to their ears.  Picked up by the Romans later.  As for the Barbary Coast, it may have come from “barbarian,” it may have come from the Arab word “Berber” for the natives there (which may, though, have come from the Greek “barbarian” thing again), or it may (less likely) have come from the conquering Barbarossa ("red-beard").

I thought, and have now reconfirmed, that the ‘barbarians’ was a term europeans have used since the darkages for african/arab raiders from north west of africa ala the barbary coast

That may well be, Death, but the word “barbarian” is older than that- it comes to English via ancient Greek, originally Proto-Indo-European “baba-”, to stammer.  “Barbary Coast” is from “Berber”, which also comes from Greek βάÏ?βαÏ?ος.

(newbq) is this nitpicking or not conducive to the discussion ? just trivial is all

Nitpicking is our name and our game, Death.  QED.