Let’s see why a theocracy might be right around the corner:

1. Established politicians would whore their mothers if it meant getting a vote and in Arkansas the voters are probably…

2. Fundamentalist or Evangelical Christians who seem to think they can build a heaven on Earth if only they could bend the heathen to their will, but how? Well, enter…

3. The Bush administration, perhaps the most crazed bunch of anti-constitutionalists to have ever stolen office. Now they wouldn’t be able to manage such a radical Jihad except that…

4. The nations press, ever fearful of losing their jobs if their Republican voting owners are displeased and ever obedient to the whims of the Whitehouse Press Office, will print the baldest lies in an effort to be “fair and balanced.” In the end it will be up to…

5. Us, the citizens of this United States to fight against the tryanny struggling ever to enslave us. When they come for my neighbor to take her to the re-education camps I will bar their way even though my neighbor is an irritating shit. When they come for my co-worker to incarcerate him for reasons unknown for an indeterminate length of time in an American torture facility, I will stand up in solidarity with him and fight back as best I can. When they finally come for me to haul me off to a forced labor camp in central Idaho maybe there will be someone left to stand up for me.

It is tired but true. Only YOU can prevent the rise of the American Taliban.

I really do not believe that people actually understand what Bush and people like him are trying to go.  When people have to start living with restrictive civil liberties due to theocratic rule they will wonder how the hell can such a thing happen.

I believe that most people are either very moderate in their religious beliefs or agnostic from what I have seen but feel the need to put moral values upfront because they believe it is a good thing. This good thing is about to bite them in the ass.

Also look where all this religious bull crap is happening, in the dumb ass south, the place where superstition and ignorance runs rampant.

While I’m displeased with any number of the agenda items pushed forward by the evangelical Right, calling the US a theocracy (or even positing one being right around the corner) strikes me as dangerous hyperbole.  To call even cretins like Dobson and Falwell “the American Taliban” is as grotesque as Sean Hannity conflating liberals with terrorists and despots.

Lengthier nattering about this here.

“It’s clear that our founding fathers, that they wanted Christian beliefs,â€? Lamoureux said. “The separation of church and state is not in our Constitution.”

Someone needs to send him that article by Brooke Allen or maybe even a copy of the constitution would do.

***Dave,

I’m on board with you regarding much of what you said in your post.  However, it does strike me that there’s already a quite notable blurring between state and religious lines in the US, especially in the south.  This is not to say that the US is a theocracy or likely to become a theocracy in the way that Iran or the Vatican is a theocracy.  However, there does seem to be the erosion of civil liberties as the result of misguided religious fervor that should be quite worrying for most American citizens, including those who are religious.  Just remember what happened to the Quakers and other non-Puritan Christian groups back in the colonial times.

While I see the increase in the religious fervor of not only citizens, but also politicians.  I see it as just a part of a cycle.  The increase of religiosity is simply (IMHO) a backlash occurring because of scientific and technological advancements.  Just like any shake up in the social foundation (think feminism) there will be a backlash.  For as with anything, you mess with the core foundation of a people, they attempt to go back to a simpler time when they understood what was going on.  I really don’t know what it is about human beings, but they are sensitive little critters.  While many are beginning to embrace being free from religion, there are just as many running there, trying to fix the cracks that occurring in the foundation.  Will this cause a true theocracy?  I don’t think so.  Will politicians use this backlash of religious fervor to their advantage?  I do believe they already are.

Banshee,

If it really was a backlash thing you’d think it’d be more universal in the industrialized world.  However, the rest of the western nations are getting increasingly secular.  It’s only in the US that evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity has taken a really strong foot hold.  This is not to say that there aren’t fundamentalist Christians in developed countries outside of the US.  It’s just that outside of the US they’re minority extremist groups that tend to not have much influence in the political process rather than actually controlling the powers that be.

I try to keep thing “Just 4 more years, Bo$$”, but being a pessimist by nature (I’ve tried, how I’ve tried to be an optomist) I think “they Repubs will probably just change the constitution back to 12 year terms”. Anyone else fearing this?

I asked Buddy why he decided to put forward that resolution, considering how overly religious our state government is. He told me that he knew it was going to lose, but he did it to demonstrate a point- that we were headed towards a theocracy, and perhaps something like this, even if it was rejected (which resolutions rarely are- they’re usually feel-good things that everyone passes unanimously) it would still serve a point in generating attention and conversation.

I can safely say that Rep. Blair has proven his point quite deftly. He’s amassing quite a collection of clips, blogs, and articles. I’ll have to point him to this blog.

It is not a theocracy you fear but a religious tyranny.  The Vatican and Iran are not theocracies rather the Vatican is an arguably benevolent religious tyranny and Iran a malevolent religious tyranny.  God has not come to earth to rule yet, so there are no theocracies.  Theocracy is not something to fear unless you believe in an omnimalevolent god.  Calling the Vatican and Iran theocracies is like calling the former Soviet Union Communist.

If it really was a backlash thing you’d think it’d be more universal in the industrialized world.  However, the rest of the western nations are getting increasingly secular.  It’s only in the US that evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity has taken a really strong foot hold.

Ironically, that’s largely because religion was so entanged in the state and the status quo in much of Europe.  Where there were strong state churches, traditional Christianity has significantly dwindled.  It’s ironic, because that’s the danger of any religious movement tying itself to politics too strongly (as some evangelical Christians are tring to do).

I try to keep thing “Just 4 more years, Bo$$�, but being a pessimist by nature (I’ve tried, how I’ve tried to be an optomist) I think “they Repubs will probably just change the constitution back to 12 year terms�. Anyone else fearing this?

It’s certainly a theme I’ve heard from several quarters—but, then, I’ve heard it going back to the Clinton Administration, and usually from the same folks who were convinced that the GOP would trump up a terrorist attack before the 11/04 elections and declare martial law.

It seems to me that there are plenty of specific, concrete, and out-on-the-table policy proposals by the Bush Administration that deserve opposition without worst-case-scenarioing ourselves into despair.

***Dave,

It seems to me that there are plenty of specific, concrete, and out-on-the-table policy proposals by the Bush Administration that deserve opposition without worst-case-scenarioing ourselves into despair.

That’s a good point, but what a heck of a “look on the bright side”. 

Theo,

That’s true, it’s religious tyranny that I’m concerned with.  I don’t think that freedom and religious tyranny (even benevolent) are contemporaneously possible in a heterogenous society (such as those of Canada and the US).

Calling the Vatican and Iran theocracies is like calling the former Soviet Union Communist.

It is indeed, theo, and I do.  It’s fun and it’s practical, too.

Here we have the problem of definitions colored by belief:  for true believers, Christian or Marxist, there are, at the moment, no true theocracies or communisties, because there are none governed directly by Christ or Marx.

Atheist flavored as I am, I am more inclined to extend the definitions a bit further away from their pristine ideals, and include a few existing regimes under the respective rubrics of “theocracy” and “communist”.

Exactly where to draw the lines is moot.  Comparing the Bush administration to the Taliban is a bit much, but I go along with 3stardave and say there’s plenty to oppose, without having to invoke the “t” words.

That’s a good point, but what a heck of a “look on the bright side�.

It’s not necessarily meant to be a “look on the bright side” (except in the “Don’t worry about that asteroid hitting us, worry about that stampede of buffalo coming our way” sort of fashion).  Catastrophizing and hyperbolizing about this sort of stuff has some very real negative effects:

1. It discourages people from action. ("Why fight Social Security reform when we’re all going to be locked in Southern Baptist Reeducation Camps in two years?")

2. It cries wolf. ("Hey, I’ve been hearing about government reeducation camps for the last X administrations—why should I start believing about them now?")

3. It discredits, and distracts from, more realistic and immediate efforts.  ("Why should I believe you about social security reform when you’re also convinced that Karl Rove and James Dobson are planning on repealing the Constitution via martial law?")

Saying “it could never happen here” is usually tempting the Ironical Gods of History too much.  But overreaction can be at least as dangerous, not to mention (a danger in itself) distracting.

I’m not claiming that we’re living in a theocracy now and I know there’s still quite a ways to go before it could be said that we are. My point was only that there was a time I found the possibility laughable and these days I’m not laughing so much. As far away as that day may be, there does seem to be a lot of signs that we’re headed in that direction and it does bother me. I also realize that it’s true that the U.S. has gone through cycles such as this before, but I’m not real found of being stuck in one of the high points for this kind of thing.

It’s the libertarian in me that just wants everyone to leave each other the hell alone as much as possible so we can be free to pursue our lives as we see fit.

***Dave,

I completely agree with you points.  I was just being facetious with the “looking on the bright side” line.  I do think that there are numerous issues that are more distracting than anything.  For example I think abortion and same-sex marriage are those kind of issues.  Most people in the US (from the way it seems from the news media and various ‘blogs and other internet sites) are getting all worked up in trying to keep gays from marrying and stopping the “killing of babies” that they’ve largely ignored serious issues such as the erosion of the US economy (the Canadian dollar is getting pretty close to being worth more than the Greenback, something that hasn’t happened since I was a baby), the war in Iraq, general dumbness in the government’s foreign and domestic policy. 

I guess it might be that people would rather focus on the insubstantial issues rather than addressing the real ones.  It’s less scary or something.

Les:

I also realize that it’s true that the U.S. has gone through cycles such as this before, but I’m not real found of being stuck in one of the high points for this kind of thing.

For what it’s worth, I think you’ve been in one of the high points, so far as civil liberties and the like go.  It’s just painful to be on the new downhill curve.

It’s the libertarian in me that just wants everyone to leave each other the hell alone as much as possible so we can be free to pursue our lives as we see fit.

Amen, brother.

Swine:

I guess it might be that people would rather focus on the insubstantial issues rather than addressing the real ones.  It’s less scary or something.

I suspect one man’s insubstantial issue is another man’s real one.  If you were utterly convinced that children were being wholesale and legally slaughtered by the thousands each year, wouldn’t you get a little crazy about it?  (I don’t hold that view, but I can see why people do.) Wouldn’t that be, in fact, more important than who’s drilling for oil where?

On the other hand, slaughter-by-the-thousands in Darfur seems to be on very few people’s radar, so maybe that answers the question.

I do agree that our priorities are probably more than a little messed up, but I suspect that once you get beyond the obvious (why are we devoting *any* news time to the Jackson or Blake trials?), what those priorities of attention, time, money, and effort should be become more difficult to get a consensus on.

Which, in a scary time, probably means that “safe” but “inflammatory” issues, like (gasp!) gay marriage get more attention from the pols and pundits than dealing with very real, concrete, and bloddy issues at home and abroad.

***Dave,

I suspect one man’s insubstantial issue is another man’s real one.

That’s true, I did unfairly trivialize the views of those that I disagree with.  I do admit, I can understand why some people get as worked up about abortion as they do.  That was rather poor form for me to say what I did.

While I’m displeased with any number of the agenda items pushed forward by the evangelical Right, calling the US a theocracy (or even positing one being right around the corner) strikes me as dangerous hyperbole.

On the othe hand it is pretty obvious that the rightwing or neo-con agenda is to reduce civil liberties. This is a very dangerous direction that must be avoided, it wasn’t too long ago that slavery was legal and look what was needed to overcome that.

Even something that resembles slavery isn’t too far off, with corporations paying meager sums of money for people to do dangerous industrial work.  people need to stand up for their rights, unfornuately a fear mongered populous is so willing to listen to what the government tells it, it needs to be safe, they are willing to believe anything.

Meh, but what do i know.

TeRRoRan,

I’m actually more concerned that there might arise a sort of neo-McCarthyism than a sort of slavery.  I doubt there will be that great a degradation of civil liberties.  However, with the PATRIOT act and various other draconian measures taken in the name of “national security” things like the HUAC and the black-lists aren’t that far over the horizon.

Just let some American taliban try and pass a law saying I have to go to church or have to believe a certain way! I’ll fuckin’ cram that law right up his tight ass. Don’t fuckin forget that lots of Americans own guns and a most Americans don’t take kindly towards being told how or what to believe---historically this is how civil wars get started. A backlash is coming just wait and see. This liberal sure as hell would’nt take such measures lying down.

Just let some American taliban try and pass a law saying I have to go to church or have to believe a certain way! I’ll fuckin’ cram that law right up his tight ass. Don’t fuckin forget that lots of Americans own guns and a most Americans don’t take kindly towards being told how or what to believe---historically this is how civil wars get started. A backlash is coming just wait and see. This liberal sure as hell would’nt take such measures lying down.

For what it’s worth, there are a number of “conservatives” who would feel the same way.

Abortion and gay marriage are easier(more black and white) to form opinions about, versus the more complex economic and foreign policies.

Dubya is a “Dominionist” which is what most of the Religious Reich are pushing for.
Robertson & Falwell have been pushing this agenda for well over 25 years now, they are getting closer to it than you may think.
We are one hail Mary and 2 Fundy Supreme Court justices away from a Theocracy right now.

http://www.apostoliccongress.com/about.html

As we very clearly saw with this last “Selection” religious fanaticism has a hold on this country, they have placed themselves into positions of power in local, state, & federal levels, from dog catcher, to school board, to Governor, Senator, Congress, to President.
They do NOT view this world as it really is, they view the world through supernatural eyes, a world of magic, demons, talking snakes, omnipotent deities that created and control all.
They are still in the PRE-dark ages with the mind set of Savages.
Factual Reality holds no answers to these deluded humans. Science is the enemy.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

http://www.theocracywatch.org/index.html

http://www.emagazine.com/view/?757

A COLLECTIVE PSYCHOSIS

It is a very dangerous situation we are in--because of the position of power Bush and the religious right find themselves in, they can literally dream up and create the very apocalypse that they are imagining is prophesized, like a self-fulfilling prophecy. In a perversely self-reinforcing feedback-loop, the more death and destruction happens, the more this confirms to them the truth that their deluded end-time scenario is actually happening as prophesized. In a diabolical self-validating vicious cycle, Bush and the religious right are ignoring the role they are playing in creating exactly what they are using as evidence to prove the rightness of their viewpoint. ME disease is a world where up is down, as its flawless illogic is convoluted and inverted at its core.

Malignant egophrenia is crazy-making. It induces a very hard-to-recognize form of insanity. When we fall prey to egophrenia, we are unable to recognize that we are taken over, as we become bewitched by our own projections, accusing other people of doing what we ourselves are doing. For example, Bush is talking about himself when he accuses Saddam Hussein of being “a man who has defied the world,� and “a man who has made the United Nations look foolish.� Part of the disease is that when we point at it and call it by its true name--as being a form of insanity called ignorance--people who are stricken with the disease will see us as the ones who are crazy. Unless we recognize the insidious nature of this disease, there is a crazy-making field around it that will make us a part of itself. Collective psychosis is like that.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Bush'sBody/TheMadnessOfGeorgeWBush.html

Just how out of the question is it considering the fact that these lunatics have no concept of reality, and have total control of 98% of the American Media to squeeze through even more INSANE and fanatical freaks into office such as Roy Moore?
http://www.constitution-party.net/party_platform.php

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36899

I think it is entirely possible we could just as easily go into a full blown death spiral in this country before the majority wake the fuck up.

Originally posted by Nunyabiz:
We are one hail Mary and 2 Fundy Supreme Court justices away from a Theocracy right now.

one hail mary and two fundy supreme court justices would get us a religious tyranny, not a theocracy.

Originally posted by Nunyabiz:
Factual Reality holds no answers to these deluded humans. Science is the enemy.

Science is not the enemy.  Science is simply what we use to reaffirm our perceptions.  Science has no mix with religion.  Religion is to explore the possibilities of the unknown and the divine, the imperceptible.  Like I’ve said many times before our religions are built on different things.  Mine is built on faith, yours on logic.