I know you are not big on the idea of leaving, but just my 2 cents… Leave

Michigan especially is a disaster zone of un-employment. Everything will eventually trickle down. It’s like the defense industry in California. When it left to go into the south, it left 100’s of thousands of other people indirectly related by employment out in the cold. Not right away however, it took several years. But it evenually caught up with ( like for instance ) House keepers in Hotels. If you lived in Houston, San Antonio, Atlanta, Phoenix, Even Huntsville Alabama you would likely be in big demand. I wish you the best, I know you are a smart guy and all. But you are young enough to REALLY move foward, like a 1000 or 2000 miles foward.

Stupid, Evil bastard.

You are way too smart to be wasting your time as a desk/labor jockey at $7.00 an hour.  I do not measure success by dollars earned, but I do believe you would appreciate your success if less of your time was spent chasing dollars.  It is far too easy for you to sit back and seethe the confidence of your righteousness here, virtually, while you fail the in the impact of your righteousness actually. 

God dammit SEB, how many keen observers of the human condition have to fall victim to the traps of anti-social narcissism before they realize how much better the world would be if they got off their asses and took jobs with more exposure than programming, quality control, libertarian organizing or star trek memorabilia website design.

muddyphuddy: It is far too easy for you to sit back and seethe the confidence of your righteousness here, virtually, while you fail the in the impact of your righteousness actually.

What people learn here can affect their day to day dealing with people - people pick up new ideas and dwell on new concepts in blogs, and that must carry over outside the internet to some extent. A blog is just a more level playing field than the outside, and so spreading of ideas is easier - if these people were the anti-social narcs you say, then their perspective wouldn’t spread very fast without the internet.

God dammit SEB, how many keen observers of the human condition have to fall victim to the traps of anti-social narcissism before they realize how much better the world would be if they got off their asses and took jobs with more exposure than programming, quality control, libertarian organizing or star trek memorabilia website design

People work for money, not the benefit of mankind. People don’t have any more responsibility just because they happen to be smart. As long as you are satisfied with what you do and your current lifestyle, then there is no real reason why any expectation should be placed on you (by others or yourself) to ‘improve’.

Also I will say that any job is just doing a load of stuff for a time and buggering off home with some money, society’s view that one job might be better than another is only really how it’s percieved, that should have no effect on how much you enjoy doing that stuff, and I see the pride aspect as a bad thing - it limits people pointlessly and has no reasonable foundations, in addition to psychological torment

muddyphuddy, your use of spelling and grammar was quite admirable; I just have no fucking idea what you were on about generally.
Did you mean Les should find a well-paying job where there isn’t one?
I do agree with your “I do not measure success by dollars earned”.
My own measure of success is how content I feel with me in my life.
I have never ever felt more at peace and I know no amount of money can buy it.

DC: any job is just doing a load of stuff for a time and buggering off home with some money

True; the only reason I worked was to earn the money that allowed me to spend the off-work time doing as I preferred – drinking, eating, clothing myself, cleansing myself with warm water and sleeping in a comfy bed within a shelter the big bad wolf couldn’t blow down.
Having had a few drongo mcjobs as well as a few top-of-the-pile jobs I know the ones I enjoyed and paid the most.

I see the pride aspect as a bad thing

Nah; I gotta disagree with you.
I’d rather buy a house, car, computer or any other item built by someone with some pride in the results in their work and getting it right than built by someone with a she’ll be right attitude.
Having said that, most of us, regardless of pride, are limited - whether it is pointlessly or not hardly matters as we each enjoy, or at least experience, a unique version of reality which, unless one has reproduced, is ultimately pointless in any case.

Do you mean ‘psychological torment’ in relationship to obsessive-compulsive ‘getting it right’ or did you have something else in mind?

I used to work in tech support, now can’t get hired: not techincal enough for engineering and too technical for support.

I want to sell jacket potatoes, the money’s good and I won’t have a remedy ticket haunting me because some stupid git won’t answer the phone.

LJ: Do you mean ‘psychological torment’ in relationship to obsessive-compulsive ‘getting it right’ or did you have something else in mind?

Hit the nail on the head, it seems to be something that always goes with pride to some extent, maybe not always to the obsessive-compulsive extent but it nethertheless puts a burden of expectation on yourself / those you take pride in, and effectively holds people at the emotional ransom of the one with the pride.

As an example my parents want me to stop giving myself haircuts (for convenience and money) - because they say they take pride in me, actually going to a professional won’t really affect my life very much - nobody at work seems to really notice (and they would tell me when it does become important), and those are pretty much the only people who’s opinion of me has some potential effect on me. Parents say they want me to look nice because they have pride in me, but all they’re doing is forcing me to spend money and time on something I don’t want to do only to satisfy a pointless ransom, and this is how I mean by limiting. Their pride in their house and other things places too much unnecessary emphasis on keeping the garden perfect, etc, when their jobs are stressed enough, nobody is really going to fully appreciate their efforts and it isn’t really a problem so long as it isn’t threatening.

You’re correct that it can affect the quality of someone’s services to another, but my overall stance is that it places unnecessary burdens of expectation on the person themselves and those around them. As pride is often coupled with passion I am also inclined to dislike passion for a job, also because you can’t really afford to get too attatched to something, particularly if there isn’t much reason to.

$7.00 an hour? You are worth far more than that.

DC: it nevertheless puts a burden of expectation on yourself / those you take pride in, and effectively holds people at the emotional ransom of the one with the pride.

I can’t argue with the premise but I can suggest what you’re describing is the extreme spikes one can be subjected to or subject others to if you’re unaware of the game.

As an example my parents want me to stop giving myself haircuts (for convenience and money)

I too resent paying for hair-cuts and went through a few years of really short short hair I inflicted on myself. Afterwards I would regularly comment it saved me (physically and or mentally) up to an hour a day.
I’d guess your parents want you to look nice so’s you can attract a mate so’s you can continue their species. 

but all they’re doing is forcing me to spend money and time on something I don’t want to do only to satisfy a pointless ransom

Their pride in their house and other things places too much unnecessary emphasis on keeping the garden perfect, etc, when their jobs are stressed enough, nobody is really going to fully appreciate their efforts and it isn’t really a problem so long as it isn’t threatening.

If you look a little deeper you’ll see they focus on nothings so they don’t have to contemplate somethings.
Most people do this – get tied up with their anaesthetics so they don’t have the time or effort to confront let alone contemplate reality with all its nuances that finally finish up at “is that all there is?” (Peggy Lee)
It’s what many of us are doing here … passing time.

You’re correct that it can affect the quality of someone’s services to another, but my overall stance is that it places unnecessary burdens of expectation on the person themselves and those around them. As pride is often coupled with passion I am also inclined to dislike passion for a job, also because you can’t really afford to get too attached to something, particularly if there isn’t much reason to.

That was a pleasant read and you’re right – ultimately there’s no reason to be attached to anything but there it is – LIFE with all it’s complexities – as it’s the only game in town I find it a more fun game than the alternative(s?).

Can I add the observation that when you write stuff there’s a definite element of clear thinking with the ability to impart complex thoughts simple enough for me to generally understand what you’re on about?
You may do this without any conscious passion for correct interpretation of your thoughts but I see passion in your writings - especially in the fact they’ve taken an amount of effort to get them grammatically and spellingly (there’s probably a word for that but it’s escaped me) correct. 

LJ: but I can suggest what you’re describing is the extreme spikes one can be subjected to or subject others to if you’re unaware of the game

I think what I do is put myself into the mindframe that I’m at an extreme, which makes me think in ways as if I were + identify things without having to be there. When it is only to a small extent, it is in the same direction as the extreme, having same effects to a lesser extent, I kinda need to know where the end of the vector is to know where it’s headed

I’d guess your parents want you to look nice so’s you can attract a mate so’s you can continue their species

Quite possibly , I don’t fully understand the instinct to want to continue the species, the main reason why I haven’t dated anyone yet is because I’m too nervous to ask (an emotional risk + it’s not worth doing that to myself [fear torture] when i’m content) - blogging and video games are much safer (as disconected), and convenient . I’m not sure I’d want responsibility now, maybe later after the degree is sorted, but it’s a burden that I have to feel I chose to take on - that’s why I dislike automatic responsibilities such as having to work, even though it is a necessary aspect of society I guess - this is why I considered living in the forest, a way of escaping if I wanted to, that it was my choice to work for prefrence of living in shelter, if that makes sense

Ransom’s a bit strong, don’t you think? It’s not as if they’re winning the game.

I suppose it’s a lighter shade of the same thing (like a smaller version of the same vector), the emotions are the things holding the ransom, not parents, how I mean is it’s an all-lose thing if emotional conditions are placed on things, the parents are the ones held at ransom, and I’m the one who’s required to do things to minimise the damage to them

It’s what many of us are doing here … passing time.

Quite possibly, I’d like it if they did identify that they didn’t need to do these things though, I think they feel forced by expectations on them that don’t really exist, and then they will think the same applies to me (causing the unchosen responsibility I mentioned earlier), which I’m afraid will happen unless I take measures now to dispell it

Can I add the observation that when you write stuff there’s a definite element of clear thinking with the ability to impart complex thoughts simple enough for me to generally understand what you’re on about?

Don’t underestimate yourself , anyway, I find generally it’s necessary for my own understanding to seperate out the individual components, so that I may identify them, kinda like you need to seperate out a mixture of chemicals before you can identify their components. I think my putting myself in an extreme of the situation in my own mind helps with this because things become more stark and the components identifiable, like magnifying a tiny object until you can see it. If I can then make these things known, perhaps by doing this others can identify them without the need to be in extreme, so I merge them into a lot of my comments, there is no clear way of telling what someone’s stance on a particular thing will be, so it gets distributed whenever the oppertunity arises, maybe also part of me dealing with it

You may do this without any conscious passion for correct interpretation of your thoughts but I see passion in your writings - especially in the fact they’ve taken an amount of effort to get them grammatically and spellingly (there’s probably a word for that but it’s escaped me) correct.

Probably because of the mindsets I put myself in, thankyou for the spelling thing and thankyou for your patience generally

Moloch, I know that and the folks at Meijer also know that. No one expects I’ll be making a career out of this. The store manager that I interviewed with yesterday had been through a similar situation himself so he understood exactly why I was there looking for a job.

Speaking of which, I start next Monday if nothing else better comes along. Still haven’t heard back from the first interview yet, but I’ll be calling them today if they don’t call me first.

Do what ever it takes to survive and to hell with other people’s opinion.  They are not feeding your kid or trying to help keep a roof over your head so they have no right to tell you what you should do.