God gave us the ability to love. 
How do you get that from science? When a child is born, they do not have to be taught to lie, it comes naturally because we are all born sinners.  It is “human nature”.  Scientifically, why is this human nature?

Well now - perhaps the differences between fat-tailed sheep and thin-tailed sheep are important to them, and to shepherds maybe, but to the rest of us you are all sheep with minor differences.

Muslims, Mormons and cultists are as much True Believers™ as you.

There is a very big difference. Cults are just one example of how God explains their will be imposter’s.  We believe nothing like them.  Maybe that there is a God yes, but the beliefs are extraordinarily different. Its as different as black and white.  If you believe that Christianity is the same as Muslims, Mormons, and Cultists then you obviously know nothing about Christianity.

Leah writes…

Maybe you should re-read this on Jonestown.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

Jim Jones got his start as a Methodist preacher and later moved on to Seventh Day Adventist, both of which are Christian denominations. Eventually he got around to starting his own church named the Community Unity Church which was later renamed to Wings of Deliverance and then further renamed to Peoples Temple Full Gospel Church. They joined the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in 1959 and changed the name again to Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel.

As time went on, the religion that Jones preached was very different from most Christian denominations, but it still had its basis in, and shared a lot of concepts with, the denominations he had formerly been a part of. To say it was a Christian sect, as opposed to a denomination, is accurate.

This is not a Christian, and us Christians do not believe in anything of the sort.

Considering most Christians can’t even agree on what it means to be a Christian, there are 34,000 different sects broken up over the various denominations, I don’t see where you have the authority to speak on behalf of all Christians as to what they believe or what is or isn’t Christian.

As for 9/11, that is not what us Christians believe either.  Get it straight.

Never said the hijackers were Christian. You asked me about True Believers™ and those folks definitely fit the bill as did the Jonestown people.

And there are some Christians out there who do believe in committing acts akin to the events on 9/11, albeit on a much smaller scale. Just about every one of the people who have murdered abortion doctors where Christian and were acting on the same logic as the 9/11 hijackers.

Maybe you should go to church and you will see we do not try to poison our members with cyanide or we are not taught to kill. 

Depends on the church. There’s plenty of Christian churches out there were hatred, intolerance, and exhortations to violence in God’s name are common occurrences. Usually directed at abortion clinics, homosexuals, and atheists.

You’re again making yourself look like an ass by assuming some of us have never been to church and are completely unfamiliar with them.

Too much crazy in this world today.

Yeah, a lot of it is religious in nature too.

Scientifically, why is this human nature?

You might want to rephrase that into something that isn’t misleadingly metaphysical. Besides which, love isn’t human nature for some of us.

If you believe that Christianity is the same as Muslims, Mormons, and Cultists then you obviously know nothing about Christianity.

I’m not black and white like the cattle on TV. Therefore I’m not a cow.

... moo.

Leah,

Your confusion is due to your nescience of the term True Believer™.

A True Believer™ is, essentially, a colloquialism for “zealot” (which can be defined as “One zealously devoted to a religion”).

In this regard, Christian True Believers™ - who themselves are responsible for many heinous acts, past and present - are no different than the True Believers™ who fly planes into buildings and commit mass ritual suicide.

That being said, in regards to your final statement in your last post, I would like add that I am particularly uncomfortable with Jesus’ - and Christianity’s - propensity to promote vampirism and cannibalism. That was but one of the ideas I took away from church when I was a regular parishioner.

If you believe that Christianity is the same as Muslims, Mormons, and Cultists then you obviously know nothing about Christianity.

Don’t make assumptions about me. I know the holy babble far better than you possibly could.

Maybe you should go to church and you will see we do not try to poison our members with cyanide or we are not taught to kill. 

Never heard of christians using cyanide (on themselves). Snake venom though - yeah some of them use it. It’s an act sanctioned in the holy babble after all. So they’re better biblical christians than you hypocrites who do not.

Yeah, a lot of it is religious in nature too.

A lot of it? Would you estimate that more than -  say 10% of the crazy could not eventually be traced back to religion? I wouldn’t,

All people are capable to love or care for someone at some point in their life. They may love their mom, a caretaker, a friend, or the opposite sex. It is usually when people are rejected that they become unemotional. The basic capability is always there in the beginning.  Love can’t be scientifically proven.

Manson characterized his mothers physical embrace of him on the day she returned from prison as his sole childhood joy. He fled Gibault School for Boys to be with his mother.  He at some point in his life loved.

I’m not black and white like the cattle on TV. Therefore I’m not a cow.

... moo.

No one said anything about your color.  That makes no sense. Christianity and cults are as different as the color black and white.

The real problem here is that Leah is assuming that a True Believer™ is a Christian. A True Believer™ doesn’t have to be a Christian, any faith will do because True Believers™ are trapped in their ideology not necessarily their faith per say.

I’m not black and white like the cattle on TV. Therefore I’m not a cow.

  ... moo.

No one said anything about your color.  That makes no sense. Christianity and cults are as different as the color black and white.

lol! Oh, dear, for your sake I hope that was deliberate. I haven’t laughed like that all day.

The point I was making is that I feel the differences between the different colors are a superficial distinction to the nature of the cow.

And you respond to that with an equally superficial “black and white are different colors” statement.

Question: What kind of church did you go to? Well I see that you take things from the bible and turn it around. 

Do not make assumptions that you know his word better.  Their are always more smarter and more educated people out there than you. I am not saying I am more educated so don’t try to turn my words around.  The world is a big place. But do not ever be too sure of yourself, because that is when someone will come along and burst you bubble.

Patness, I was not being serious.  Just restating my point. Don’t take it literally. I just thought it was an idiotic statement.  How corny.

The real problem here is that Leah is assuming that a True Believer™ is a Christian. A True Believer™ doesn’t have to be a Christian, any faith will do because True Believers™ are trapped in their ideology not necessarily their faith per say.

Yes, I do apologize, bad choice of words, I did mean Christian.  I can only speak for Christians.

LOL, that was kind of crazy huh Patness.  I needed that laugh also.

I can only speak for Christians.

Like it or not, you can and do speak for all True Believers™.

Question: What kind of church did you go to? Well I see that you take things from the bible and turn it around. 

Never heard of snake handlers I suppose?

Do not make assumptions that you know his word better.

Not an assumption - a fact. And it isn’t “his word”. It’s the word of a bunch of bronze-age goatherds.

I am not saying I am more educated so don’t try to turn my words around.

I didn’t mention anything about education. So don’t you try to turn my words around. I know it’s hard for TBs like yourself not to, but at least make a valiant effort.

Their are always more smarter and more educated people out there than you.

There probably are. But not in your camp. And there certainly are none in your camp who know the holy babble better.

But do not ever be too sure of yourself, because that is when someone will come along and burst you bubble.

I’m never too sure of myself, I’m always just sure enough.

I’m never too sure of myself, I’m always just sure enough.

That I doubt. You’re human.

I intended to frame that in a more Goldilocks-esqe manner but I couldn’t think how.

Love can’t be scientifically proven.

Sure it can, just like you could prove god existed if there was one. Unlike deities though, love has human actors and presumably measurable effects in the same way that fear releases adrenaline. The problem with proving love isn’t that it’s disprovable, it’s that it’s a squirrely, vague little term.

People love their cars and they love their jobs, but they also love their children and they love chocolate. There are an awful lot of pleasurable sensations that we label love, including that weird joy you TB folks get from shutting off your brains with religion. They’re likely not all love, or at least there are likely different chemically measurable differences within the term we label love.

Their are always more smarter and more educated people out there than you.

There probably are. But not in your camp.

Keep it coming. LOL

more smarter

I am the mostest smarter. Even more gooder than the bestest.

Next week I am running for President against Obama, at least I know there are 61 states. I thinketh.

do you teach your children that their is no God?

I would not. And I would not have to. If my children ever came up with any questions I would simply answer them.

And since there is no question the answer to would be “god”, I would never have to tell my children about god at all.

Unfortunately they will someday get into contact with religious people, but until then I hope they will be developed and educated enough to understand that those people are deluded.

Leah, you seem to think anyone who doesn’t follow your particular path of Judaism is on the wrong course, so you can discount that branch of Judaism that holds Jesus as an important prophet, not an avatar.  Hmmmm.

So Christians don’t poison people with cyanide- hmmmm.

They do however grow silly moustaches and kill them with Zyklon B, as revenge for the cruxifixion. 6 million in fact.  Or does that not count because he was Austrian? (Sorry Zilch)

OK.  Howabout those Christians whose christianity led them to commit genocide of the nomadic tribes in the new world they had colonised. Oh don’t tell me “No true Christian…”.

Now I don’t suppose paedophile priests are doing it in the name of Christ, but the brutality that is meted out in the name of Christ for over 1,500 years can not be waved away with ‘no true Christian’.  Try the phrase “No true Muslim…”

Love can’t be scientifically proven

Once we figure out all the chemicals in the brain we can prove the feeling of love.

Have you ever seen a true believer drive a plane into a building or start a cult and in the end kill everyone? Or maybe go to school and kill everyone.

I have. I have also seen True Believers set off bombs in attempts to kill/injure doctors, nurses and women at abortion clinics.

As a child I did not worry I would get shot when going to school, now I pray for my kids safety

Maybe the majority (Read Christians) should stop teaching their children that they are above even talking to those of us that do not ‘believe’. Maybe we should shut off the TV and have an uprising over each one of these kids that get put on TV the second they start shooting. Maybe we should quit babying our kids so that they don’t need constant positive feedback to ‘feel good’ about themselves and get depressed whenever someone is not telling them how great they are.

So much sex, lies, and violence these days.

I suppose you are going to tell me that there wasn’t as much sex, lies and violence in the bible!?

They may love their mom, a caretaker, a friend, or the opposite sex.

What about the people that love a member of the same sex? If the child you save from abortion turns out gay are you going to fight for it’s rights too?

With what Richard said, maybe the non believers should read the bible instead of make fun of it. If you actually study the bible, you can see that the prophecy is all there.

What about Nostradamus? I would say he has had more prophecy come true. The difference, he did not go around telling people he was the son of god and that everyone should believe him simply because ‘stone cold said so’. Go ahead and talk about all the amazing stuff people witnessed (I have seen some pretty amazing stuff when I am plowed on wine also!) oh, and let’s not forget that this region is relatively popular for hallucinogenic substances! Nostradamus also forgot to put on paper the whole “and there will be fakers that think they know what is going to happen, but I am the real deal!”.

Maybe you should go to church and you will see we do not try to poison our members with cyanide or we are not taught to kill.

No, Christians are mostly taught to hate. If you push people to hate enough someone will sooner or later kill.

Like it or not, you can and do speak for all True Believers™.

This is true Leah, we could have just lumped you in with the loonies from the “Jesus Camp” documentary!

‘there was a time when religion ruled the world. It is known as the Dark Ages.’ - Ruth Hurmence Green

Stock up on ammo folks. Someday we will have to take our government and our country back….

I mean, when was the last time any of them came up with an original argument?

Here is the argument that should strike you as original.

Jesus was a punisher. His job was to fullfill the curses of Torah (the old testament). He planted the seeds of a society that grows evil. Judge not lest yee be judged, turn the other cheek, etc.

Why should a righteous man fear the righteous judgement of god to the point he would let evil get waya with it? Will letting an evil man do what he wants prevent him from growing stronger, etc. etc. No one stops to think how evil all of these staments are.  It proves to heaven they don’t care.

Jesus’ power was given by God (Deut 13) and all of the logic that you use to build your witty observations on are based on a world that is living in the curses. (the chose death lifestyle)

Science is a study of what is. It still hasn’t proved how it got there. The energy that drives atoms has a source and the system has a logic not randomness.

Of course you dont see God where you are standing.

You can say God doesn’t exist, because in the cursed world God hides from the people he hates and blindsides them. Everything they reach for will be moved out of reach.

The world is being humiliated. All books and all religions based on the Old Testament are built specifically for those who failed the test.

Moses delivered one book (not five) before he died an in it was everything we needed to know. In theat book he stated do not add a word or take away a word. So how can there be other books?

If we cared enough for the giver of life, we would figure out the truth.

Apparently no one cared enough. God is the type that if you flip him the bird he will pull a stunt on you to humilate you.

Jesus is that reply.  It is a road that travels to the darkess places of the human heart and these saps are forcing a smile along the journey thinking they are Job. Listen to the problems the born agains have.

They all state they were evil before some miraculous thing happened that turned them to Jesus.  According to the real God, an evil person gets punished (curse) not a free ticket to heaven. They all cling to Jesus thinking they are getting a free ticket, but Jesus teaches them to enjoy and seek the curses. Giving up wealt, giving up lust of the flesh, making friends with enemies, suffering stupid evil bastard abuse from everyone and anyone. God sent them into the furnace that is Jesus. God does however forgive those that return to the truth and show love capacity.

Do you not hear the panic and fear in a bible thumpers voice. Do you understand the tears of fear that they cry in the night as family and frineds turn away from them like the mind plaque they carry. “Who can give back last night” and “you will flee thou no one persues”.

One of those curses is for God to hide himself and to send an evil one to the arms of other gods. (you shall work for other gods.)

War, hate, broken families, crime, promoted enemies, working to give your wages to your enemeie, all products of a mind virus.

Jesus stated he came to punish. This is not the messiah who brings peace.

Is that orginial enough. I didn’t invent it. The miracles is that no one till now has been able to see it as most fail the test of blunt honesty. In addition those that failed, God has made too drunk in the mind to perceive such simple yet brutal humiliation at his hands. I dont blame him. If I were the creator, I would seek the same type of humilation on my enemies.

Science tells us that we only use a percentage of our brain. Why?

I tell you as a inner city firefighter, there is much oddity in death and tragedy. People who fall victim to a combination of unlikely events that leave onlookers in awe. People who live in Jesus shrine homes that have four and five unrelated diseases and against all odds just obtained another one.

Every knee will bow but not the way religions sell it. They will bow in humility when they see how they have been run through a maze because of their own choices and how they turned their backs to the good life.

The symbols are like graphitti of the war. You hear it in the statement “Jesus!” that the human mind knows it is his work. People exclaim “Jesus!” at the sight of tragedy and then the ask “Why me God?” and “Oh please God?”. They know. And they know the difference. Jesus came to collect on the contract.

Science tells us that we only use a percentage of our brain. Why?

Because Science does not tell us anything of the sort.

Or does that not count because he was Austrian? (Sorry Zilch)

No skin off my nose, LH.  And as they say, it takes an Austrian to claim that Hitler was German and Beethoven Austrian.

Komosel replies to our assertion that there are no new arguments for the existence of God:

Here is the argument that should strike you as original.

Jesus was a punisher. His job was to fullfill the curses of Torah (the old testament). [here follows a bunch of stuff from Scripture]

Not original: the “Argument from Scripture”, or “God exists, and has such and such characteristics, because my Holy Book says so”.

Science is a study of what is. It still hasn’t proved how it got there. The energy that drives atoms has a source and the system has a logic not randomness.

Not original.  This is the “Argument from the First Cause” and the “Argument from Design”, which go back at least to Socrates: “How did everything come to be, and come to have order?  Must have been Created.”  Of course, this begs the question “Who created the Creator”, which has several flavors of apologetic answers, none of which have a scrap of evidence or plausibility.

Of course you dont see God where you are standing.

You can say God doesn’t exist, because in the cursed world God hides from the people he hates and blindsides them. Everything they reach for will be moved out of reach.

Not original.  This is the age-old “God moves in mysterious ways” argument, which is too silly to need rebuttal.  Santa moves in mysterious ways, too.  The “God hides because He hates us” qualification of God’s mystery is just another version of the “diabolical lie”: rational inquiry is the work of the Devil.  And of course in the Old Testament, the Devil does God’s bidding.

Then follows a bunch more stuff about how God hates us, ending with:

Is that orginial enough. I didn’t invent it. The miracles is that no one till now has been able to see it as most fail the test of blunt honesty. In addition those that failed, God has made too drunk in the mind to perceive such simple yet brutal humiliation at his hands. I dont blame him. If I were the creator, I would seek the same type of humilation on my enemies.

The only original thing about this is an unusual emphasis on how much God hates us, and how He deliberately hardens our hearts to Him.  I guess we can thank Darwin that you are not the Creator.

One final bit:

Science tells us that we only use a percentage of our brain. Why?

This is simply not true, but like the alligators that supposedly survived being flushed down toilets and now roam the sewers of New York, it refuses to die.  Religion is an alligator too.

B

ecause Science does not tell us anything of the sort

Your right. My mistake for believeing a myth. One supposedly even Einstein mistakenly believed.

What is correct, however, is that at certain moments in anyone’s life, such as when we are simply at rest and thinking, we may be using only 10 percent of our brains.- Neurologist Barry Gordon at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine in Baltimore.

Science does teach we are evolved from monkeys yet states we are not genetically connected to neandrathal man.