Feel free to use them if you think they are useful. I have no problems being quoted.

About 3 years ago I dropped into a black hole – four months of absolute terror. I wanted to end my life, but somehow [Holy Spirit], I reached out to a friend who took me to hospital. I had three visits [hospital] in four months – I actually thought I was in hell. I imagine I was going through some sort of metamorphosis [mental, physical & spiritual]. I had been seeing a therapist [1994] on a regular basis, up until this point in time. I actually thought I would be locked away – but the hospital staff was very supportive [I had no control over my process]. I was released from hospital 16th September 1994, but my fear, pain & shame had only subsided a little. I remember this particular morning waking up [home] & my process would start up again [fear, pain, & shame]. No one could help me, not even my therapist [I was terrified]. I asked Jesus Christ to have mercy on me & forgive me my sins. Slowly, all my fear has dissipated & I believe Jesus delivered me from my “psychological prison.” I am a practicing Catholic & the Holy Spirit is my friend & strength; every day since then has been a joy & blessing. I deserve to go to hell for the life I have led, but Jesus through His sacrifice on the cross, delivered me from my inequities. John 3: 8, John 15: 26, are verses I can relate to, organically. He’s a real person who is with me all the time. I have so much joy & peace in my life, today, after a childhood spent in orphanages [England & Australia]. God LOVES me so much. Fear, pain, & shame, are no longer my constant companions. I just wanted to share my experience with you [Luke 8: 16 – 17].

Peace Be With You
Micky

And peace be with you too, Micky. Sounds like you’ve had a rough ride.

I’m also pleased you’ve found a form of peace, Micky, I’m 100% behind you. All you have to do is survive and you’re a success, and if you don’t know what to do, I find just laying down and doing nothing good, or breaking the cycle with entertainment. I’m going to talk in analagies here so it might sound a little odd.

Once it’s fully over it’s over for good. Though certain lines of thought can lead you into what looks like a black hole, it’s really a tunnel that you can think your way out of, through the other end, never back. People I know are put off thinking about things that they think will lead into a black hole, where they don’t see an end, and the kind of happy ending you see in films i think is sometimes the relief of not having to go into one, and possibly life isn’t like that because people need to be forced into the tunnel. There is always a way out so never be afraid to explore, and you’ll hopefully be pleased to know, there is no going back to before that tunnel.

You have found a what i’d call a pillar of strength, something you can rely on and trust in, something that will help you find the keys that you wish to look for, even if only by letting you refocus. I’d expect that before you based your pillar of strength on something unreliable that you came to lose, so now you’ve found firmer ground, for me my pillar changed to financial security, which though not guaranteed is safer than the social needs of before. In my case I was distressed that I hadn’t (and still haven’t) had a romantic relationship yet, but now I banish loneliness and anything too painful to the subconcious, which is a little mind trick you can do, but it won’t work permanently, just until the situation changes

Micky: I actually thought I was in hell

You could conseider certain mindstates like a manifestation of hell, of which there is more than one form. Hell is, I think, a way of giving people extra drive to proceed through the dark tunnel, give them a strong reason/need to metamorphasise (they can never be forced to change by the nature of what we’re talking about, just given more reason to)

However I am perplexed at why people have the need to metamorphasise in the first place, why they started off at the other end of these ‘tunnels’ in the first place

Maybe I’m just an asshole.

I read through Micky’s story. I don’t get it. I don’t understand why I should pat this guy on the back and say good for you, Micky, your imaginary friend got you through your hard times.

It’s a crock. An illusion.

And any “cure” based on an illusion isn’t a cure. It’s just trading one problem for another.

I want to tell Micky to stand up and grow a pair. To stop relying on fantasy and start relying on himself.

Like I said, maybe I’m just an asshole......

KPG, you’re not alone.

I’ve heard stories like Micky’s before and I’ve always had mixed feelings about them.

On the one hand, subjective improvement is a good thing. On the other hand, I doubt that religiosity cures a clinical mental health condition and to put it bluntly, I’m wary of people with potentially unresolved issues who “got religion” on top of that.

I am personally of the opinion that Micky needs some genuine help (i.e. going to the root of his issues and resolving them once and for all). To simply “find” religion and claim to be cured is, to me, sort of like dressing up a turd and then claiming it’s no longer a turd. But to each his/her own. If Micky has truly overcome and grown from his past dire straits, more power to him.

KPG, Elwed, I understand the mixed feelings.  But I’m not inclined to debate someone who found a surcease from suicidal pain. 

Unless he were running for a school board or public office and wanted to push his religion onto public policy, I suppose.

DOF, I’m normally not inclined to debate someone in that position, either. In fact, my normal inclination would be to just say nothing and let it go. No matter how I feel, it’s his life.

The reason I spoke up is that I suppose I’m somewhat inclined to debate those that know better who would pat him on the back and say “good for you”.

It seems to be, well, is “enabling” the word I’m looking for here?

This isn’t a crack at you or anyone else, just some weird misgivings on my part.....

I respect the restraint in debate from all, I’m with DOF on this, I don’t know enough about Micky to know how ready he is for debate, especially if it’s concerning the thing that’s holding him together. True or false, it may well have prevented a suicide, and so serves a purpose even if it is fantasy. Perhaps he knew about SEB’s stance and so wasn’t vulnerable (or knew what he was doing), I don’t know, it would appear to be placing a lot of emotional trust in an open forum but it’s not so if he’s immune, which he very well may be, things aren’t always as they seem

I don’t get it.

Be grateful that you don’t then. 

To put it simply KPG: Your perception of reality is your reality.  Whether your perception of reality matches reality, well, that is an entirely different issue. Micky has found something that has helped him alter his perception of reality such that he finds it possible to go from day to day without a sense of fear, pain and shame.

A lot of therapies involve changing one’s perception of reality so that there is a level of acceptance for the individual sufficient that they can function in society.  Very few therapies actually involve changing reality. Micky has found the same.

Now if in light of that explanation you still want to take a pot shot about growing a pair, well, I’m going to be inclined to call you an asshole. 

If you’re concerned about unresolved issues, like Elwed, and you engage the person so that you can ascertain for yourself whether there is anything to your idle speculation, I would applaud your sense of humanity.  If instead you sit on the sideline taking potshots under the guise of your concern about religion’s effect upon humanity without being willing to do any of the lifting yourself, well, again, I’m going to think you’re an asshole.

You’ll have to forgive KPG.  If accepts there is a God then he has to admit pickles have a purpose to their existence.

(DOF) But I’m not inclined to debate someone who found a surcease from suicidal pain.

Expression doubts with regards to the efficacy of “getting religion” as a cure to one of a number of personal problems isn’t the same as debating an individual. In general, I question if the “cure” isn’t worse than the disease. In particular, whatever floats your boat.

Consi: Now if in light of that explanation you still want to take a pot shot about growing a pair, well, I’m going to be inclined to call you an asshole.

I’m just going to take that one on the chin. Yep, I’m an asshole at times. The growing a pair remark was uncalled for and stems from my own beliefs that people should face their problems and not turn to religion (or drugs or other mind altering solutions) to deal with them. But it was a bad way to say it.

If you’re concerned about unresolved issues, like Elwed, and you engage the person so that you can ascertain for yourself whether there is anything to your idle speculation, I would applaud your sense of humanity.  If instead you sit on the sideline taking potshots under the guise of your concern about religion’s effect upon humanity without being willing to do any of the lifting yourself, well, again, I’m going to think you’re an asshole.

I’m not really concerned with the unresolved issues. This is going to sound a bit like I’m channelling Gregory House, but I’m not concerned with the “patient” at all. I don’t know him, his issues are his own.

What concerns me is the idea of atheists comforting the “patient” in a manner that appears to lend credence to his religous beliefs. It seems just a touch on the hypocritical side.

And I feel the need to repeat, I’m not blasting anyone. I really don’t feel that strongly about this, it’s just what came to mind and you all know that the filter between my brain and my mouth (or in this case, fingertips) often doesn’t work real well.......

My disinclination to debate Mickey was not prescriptive, KPG - you have your own navigation system.

Yes, it might be enabling to just wish him well and move on.  Specifically I hope it enables him to go on another day and not suffer the tortures of the damned or hurt himself or someone else.  I have looked into that dark hole before and seen one of my family members down there looking back - a painful and disturbing experience in itself. 

Recently one of the conservative bloggers I read went off on people who suffered PTSD in Vietnam.  He criticized them for saying ‘Vietnam made me this way’ and said that others had ‘come home and gotten on with their lives’ and that should be prescriptive for everyone.  But that individual never saw combat, himself.  It was very unseemly. So that is my reasoning for saving the debate for someone else.

I’m of the opinion that if religion helps someone sleep better at night and keeps them from climbing a clock tower with a high-powered rifle then, by all means, be a believer. Not the best solution to be sure, but if it works and doesn’t cause any additional issues then so be it.

I’m a great believer in Frank Sinatra’s: Basically, I’m for anything that gets you through the night - be it prayer, tranquilizers or a bottle of Jack Daniels.

But, Clutching at Crutches like Saviours and Drugs are only temporary solutions that keep you as enslaved as the original problem. Eventually you have to confront the demons if you are to have any REAL peace in freedom.

Yup. It’s ok to do what you have to do when you need to get through the night, but eventually you’ve got a whole new day and all the rest of the days that you need to get through too.

Believing in magical pink unicorns might help, but it’s not the unicorns that are going to be doing the heavy lifting in the end.

it’s not the unicorns that are going to be doing the heavy lifting in the end.

Yeah; that’s what I found; unicorns are lazy fuckers.

I’m with Les.  Many people forget that freedom or religion means freedom FROM religion too, but as long as you’re not in my face, I will let you believe what you want, support your right to practice your religion and even try to understand your morality.  Everyone’s hell is not the same, and it stands to reason that the road to salvation can’t be the same for everyone either.

For instance, who else here uses Doritos and an obscene amount of beer?

Depends what you call an obscene amount- 1/2 a pint at a part is obscene.

1/2 a pint at a part is obscene.

I know there’s a joke there - I just don’t get it.
Something to do with ‘everything’s relative’?

an obscene amount of beer

I would NEVER put obscene and.
I would NEVER put beer into the same sentence.

For instance, who else here uses Doritos and an obscene amount of beer?

Well, I’m known to dabble with a substance that makes me crave Doritos. Can’t stand the taste of beer, though.

I use simple mathematics:

One beer is too many
Three beers is close
Five beers is not nearly enough.

Works every time.