SEB Mailbag: A Christian parent asks for some help.

Posted by Les on Thursday, December 07, 2006 at 04:27 PM. Read 1128 times. Tags:
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Not all the email I get is from people who have somehow managed to wiggle free from their restraints and gain access to the computer at the nurse’s station when she isn’t looking. Quite a lot of it is very sincere and makes running SEB very worthwhile. Every now and then I get emails from folks, both atheist and believers, who are looking for some advice. This is one of those occasions.

A concerned Christian mother by the name of—we’ll call her “Mary” for our purposes here as she has requested anonymity—wrote me an email the other day about her fiancé’s rebellious daughter. The daughter is a bit of a hell raiser and uses the excuse that she’s an atheist to justify her actions. Here’s the email as I received it edited only for readability:

Hello Les,

My name is “Mary” and I want to pose a question to you and actually am hoping form some advice. Personally I am a Christian as is our family, my fiancé & his family…

My fiancé has a teen daughter who states she is an atheist, while I am doubtful she actually understands what this means…

You appear to be a very intelligent man with some viewpoints I found most interesting…

Here is a small piece of her history so that maybe you can help me understand and help her…

Before I start we did try counseling, she refused to speak…

This young lady lost her mother due to drug use and free sexuality which sent her mother to a grave at a way too early age… Her father, straight arrow…

The daughter, in my opinion, I feel chooses to believe in no God as it provides her with nothing else to fear or respect, teen rebellion combined with hurt anger and pain of a difficult life…

She is beyond sexually free, steals and defies her father continuously, all while stating she is an atheist. I have repeatedly told her that she should know, have knowledge of what she says before she says it. I told her that I was doubtful that people who are atheist throw all values out the window and more than likely many would take offense to her freely stating “this is atheism.”

I guess my question is....besides my telling her to research, which she won’t, how can I get it through to her that this is not true.... atheism is not a license for stealing, sexual promiscuity, and disrespect and lack of regard for people. I do not want to save a nation or a world, just one girl who is going to destroy herself.... being Christian and praying does not seem to be helping so I turn to you… stupid evil bastard (lol by the way sounds like something my brother would come up with)

Any time or advice is greatly appreciated and openly accepted.

Signed,
HELP,
I don’t want to be step mother to a deceased child.
“Mary”

Again this is a sincere request and I asked “Mary” if it would be OK for me to post this to SEB so you folks could chime in. What I’m hoping for is some constructive feedback for “Mary” as she is trying more than just praying to get through to what sounds like a troubled young woman. I know there are quite a few counselors and psychologists who lurk on this site so I’m hoping some of you may speak up as well. I also realize there’s not a whole lot in this email to go on so I’m not expecting anyone to have a perfect solution they can whip out and present her with—just some suggestions that might be helpful. I haven’t had a chance to write up a reply of my own yet, but I’m hoping to get something together this evening and I’ll post it in a comment if you guys are interested. In the meantime I’ll be passing along a link to this entry to “Mary” so she can follow along. 

Comments:

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Sadie Jane United States Posted on 12/08/2006 at 04:14 PM

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The girl needs to understand that atheism does not and should never necessitate hurting oneself or others. I suspect, though, that she does at least partly understand this, and it may be that she is just a “problem child.” It’s not her fault, of course--she’s had anything but an easy life so far. Hopefully time will bestow more wisdom onto her.

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Thinking is the best way to travel.

Deadly NightShade United States Posted on 12/08/2006 at 04:16 PM

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Hello ‘Mary’.I would definitley get the father involved. First, I think you both should find out exactly who her friends are and have a meeting with her school counselor for some sort of insight on how she is relating to other kids and if she is proactive in school events. Just don’t tell her you are doing this or she will clam up even more. Perhaps the counselor can get involved too by trying to get her to be a part of school functions. Banning her from her safety net(friends, clubs, hangouts..etc) will only make her rebel more-trust me my daughter is 15. Find some sort of common ground and build on that. For example, ask her out to a movie that she would like even if you would hate it, invite her best girlfriend and mother out for an afternon at the mall and spring for a new cd by her fave artist. This is also the time of year that the community needs help with basic items like blankets and clothing. Ask her if she would like to help box some old items up and then go out for pizza. During this time open up some dialogue about what is meaningful to her. Maybe even name drop a few humanitarian celebs that are also Atheists like ‘oh by the way, did you know...’. Low self esteem could be an issue here as well. Have dad surprise her one day with just a day for them but eventually make it a regular thing. The one thing that I can tell you from experience is that if she has been her dad’s number one girl all this time, it will take time for her to accept your relationship. Respect the fact that she is almost an adult and she is entitled to her own opinions but when she blaims her actions on her religion or lack of one, you and dad need to tell her that’s not true. Most importantly whether you like it or not, you and dad will have to sit her down if you haven’t already and tell her in a non threatening way what is ok and what is not when it comes to being sexually active and what the consequences are-would you expect her to give up her baby or abort-would she keep it? Would you kick her out for contracting a disease? Does she want you and dad to supply her with condoms? (I say buy them and let it be obvious that they are there for the taking)Let her know what your position as a family is if any of this happens to her. Her running around being promiscuous tells me that she may be thinking daddy has her back no matter what happens. She probably won’t stop having sex so please, reinforce how important safe sex is.

Deadly NightShade United States Posted on 12/08/2006 at 04:29 PM

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Oh, and another thing and I’ll try to keep it short. This could also be her way of being close to her mother because this is all she remembers or has been told about her mother. Someone needs to tell her about all the good things about her mother. Maybe her dad has some funny stories about her or memories that were happy ones. Tell her these things in an unbiased way so she can feel closer to her mom in a positive way. Dad may not want to because of underlying hurt, but it sounds like now is the time to set it aside.

JM United States Posted on 12/08/2006 at 05:40 PM

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OK, Mary is clearly out of her depth, as are many parents when teens go off. Mary needs direct advice, so here is my suggestions.

1) Religion has nothing to do with the teens problems, other than the fact that she sees it has failed her.  Accept that and move on.  Any sort of preaching, however mild will only put her back up.  Any attempt to ‘save the sole’ will lose the teen.

2) Get lots of help.  Reach out to her school councilor, her friends, any teachers she respects, etc.  Get them involved.  Don’t pull punches.  Tell them what she is doing and ask them for help.

3) Switch on what ever mental health services you have in your health plan or community. (Not the church) Your county probably has a number of teen programs ranging from mental health counciling through to teen mentioning.  Some may ask for a contribution or have a sliding schedule of fees based on your income.  Use them all. There is nothing wrong with using several complementing programs concurrently.  For example we had a teen doing:
- One hour of personal mental health counsil, (2 x times a week)
(Started as mother and daughter for first time and then mostly daughter only.)
- Group teen sessions as part of court ordered shoplifting intervention. ( 2 x a week)
- Every other week, one on one with school academic councillor. 

3(b) Don’t forget the quality time, one on one with adults that the teen respects.  Aunts, teachers, anybody willing to put in the time doing something where they go out or worked together.  (Photography, going shopping, working on paintings, anything… but not watching TV or Movies.) We have had some quality talks in the car going to some place else.

4) Offer unconditional love, ALL THE TIME:  Not matter what the teen does.  Love should never be conditional.  Please note that there is a difference between love and being an enabler.  It is possible to show love and yet tell them you disapprove.  (In that order, the love first And never, ever, never, “I love you but ...” because that sounds conditional.  Love first, and disapproval later, some time later, maybe even next day.  Hey they are not stupid, they know they messed up.

5) Should she get detained by the police, sent to juvi, “Baker Acted” (confined for evaluation or her own safety) then let her sit for about 3 to 4 days, but make sure you visit every day!!.  Never let her feel abandoned.  (That appears to be one of her issues) Getting detained in a psychological evaluation unit for a couple of days may make her sit and think it out, but don’t you put her in there other wise she will feel YOU did it to her.

6) Reward good behavior.  Use everything available every time for rewards.  Don’t just say good job.  That may work for you but your verbal opinion does not hold much value.  So give her real cash bonus for good grades, and hugs, and ice-cream, and… and… Multiple rewards for each good move.  Make it VERY rewarding to the right thing.

7) Understand it is in the nature of teens to experiment, to mess up, to take risks, to reject their parents and to push out into the world.  It’s biological.  All you can do is try to keep up, and modify your behavior towards them, and get them the help they need.  Don’t chastise them for making the wrong decisions.  Life is about learning.  Don’t tell them they are a bad kid. 

8 & 9 and 10) Get parenting classes for yourself. I MEAN IT.
This is probably the most important part of the whole process because the one person you have direct control over is yourself.  IF the child sees you are making a real effort to upgrade how you interact with them, they are likely to meet you half way.

SEX.  Teens have sex.  Be non-judgmental and make sure they are safe.  We took her to the OBGYN and got her started on birth control AND lectures on condoms, and we re-enforce the condom lecture frequently.  Talk to them and make sure they understand how it works.  It is amazing how much of what teens know about sex and aids just ain’t so.  Don’t tell them what to do or not do… they are figuring that out for them selves and.... if you don’t preach, they may even ask your advice. 
A search for intimacy is often a symptom of depression and a reaction to a feeling of isolation and alienation.

STEELING.  This is a symptom.  Unfortunately this symptom my get serious enough to wreck her life.  Has she been caught?  We have a mandatory intervention program where they have to go to class.  (At one point the Mother and daughter were doing night classes on alternate days.) Do what ever you can to keep her from getting a criminal record. 

SIBLINGS:  Siblings have to make it known how they are harmed by the disruptive behavior.  You should also talk to them candidly.  (And get them counsil too.) Listen to siblings, they can give you perspective as to how the problem child sees things.

What Mary is seeing are the classic symptoms of a teen mental health problems, teen communication problems and growing problems.  The good thing is your teen is not unique, and the knowledge of what to do and how to help her is readily available.

I have been through this with my current girlfriends kids, and the kids of one of my best friends.  You need to use all the tools and resources all the time.

We found the combination of teen mental health counsil, and very importantly parenting skills classes for the adults essential.  The parenting skills classes helped re-cast our messages to them.  Without new parenting skills the teens would have quickly reverted.

We found the local mental health available through the schools (ask the school) AND the county supported mental health (ask the county, income qualified) AND the teen intervention and support programs, AND called on a lot of other adults in the family and friends to have one on one relationships wit the kids and to help.  We had some serious family meetings, with out the teens, to work out a unified system of support. 

Each child is a work in progress, and I can report that ours are all doing much better. Each faced similar issues, multiple family deaths and/or a dysfunctional parent.  Things got of the rails and in two serious cases the teens got way off the rails before we got them back on track.  (A’s and B’s never looked so good)

If Mary address the mental health and parenting issues, and draws on ALL the available resources, school, county, family and community, then the issues can be addressed and you will have a teen that comes out stronger and better than before.

Understand that the issues for the parents are the teens actions, but the same actions for the teen are NOT the problem, they are the symptoms.  The mental health issues are the problem, the behaviors are just symptoms.

That the teen may not know what the issues are, that the current parenting is NOT working, and that it is no ones fault, except possibly the adults involved for not understanding how to handle the problem.

Last, read some good books on parenting teens.  NOT THE CHRISTIAN ONES. 

Find other parents in the community with SUCCESSFUL TEENS.  It’s all to easy to find sympathy in the parenting classes from other parents with problem teens but they are the wrong people to take advice from.  You need help from parents who’s teens are on track, or who have put their teens back on track. 

PARENTING is not instinctive.  It is not biblical.  It is not obvious.  Both you and the teen need a lot of guidance.  First thing is to start parenting classes aimed at parents with teens.  Take notes and read the books.  Your teen needs to know that you care enough to do your homework. 

The teen is just reacting to something she is not handling correctly.  But she will change, if the environment changes, if the parenting style changes, and if she has some mental help to help her frame her world.

Commiezilla United States Posted on 12/11/2006 at 08:24 PM

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Wow great comments from everyone here. My thought is that (as we already know)she is still in pain of losing her mother. Its something she will have to work through herself. But it might be that it is something she nees to talk about. Discussing it with her could help. I would not suggest drawing judgements or giving her any thing from the bible or trying to offer suggestions on what she could do unless she directly asks for them. She seems to just want someone to listen to her pain and say “I understand”.

(had this problem with my sister, things are not resolved but it helps when the sibling listens to the problems and does not draw a conclusion)

Personally I would try and engage her about it and see if she bites, dont draw any conclusions just let her speak, cry ,whimper whatever, its a way of getting through it. You or her father should do this preferably her father. She sounds like she is looking for a shoulder and may not have gotten that when her mother did die or it is only now taking an effect on her.

At this point she can only heal herself if she confronts her feelings. Church and the bible is not the answer. However letting her know you are there for her to talk to should help. It was not stated when this girl lost her mother but you should understand that you MUST make it clear to her that YOU are not REPLACING her mother, the term mother may take on to much meaning in this case and should be avoided. You are her guardian and someone she can come to with problems.

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flectere si nequeo superos, Achaeronta movebo

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

JstNodNsmle United States Posted on 12/13/2006 at 10:04 PM

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I didn’t go through and read all of the comments left, so I may end up repeating something someone has already said. I apologize for this. As a teenager (I’ll note I’m still one), I never went through a rebellious phase, but I knew a lot of kids in school with me who did, including my fiance. From this experience I learned that if a teenager doesn’t want to change, they won’t. Unless a parent can catch them before a rebellious stage and try to lessen the “severity” of it, there’s not much else to do during a “phase.” Like I said, if a teen doesn’t decide to change themself, there is little anyone can say or do to make them change. Like in a relationship, you can’t change the other person, they have to change themself.

But, as I am not a parent, I haven’t learned if there may be any specific techniques that work. And as a Psychology major, I know there is some very serious conditioning that can be used, but it is best done if a Behavioral Psychologist is employed to help.

So as a teenager, I would say there would be very little that would help outside of a very negative experience that happened to the teen herself or a person very close to the teen that relates to her life. And as a pyschology student, I would suggest trying a Behavioral Psychologist, though they can be pretty expensive.

Just my two-cents worth.

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Why do both religious affiliation and number/style of your tattoos destroy your accountability and character in court? hmmm

I’m going to assume Hell is much warmer than Heaven, and I prefer Summer over Spring.

Who is more likely to be immoral: a person who has a “God” to forgive them no matter what they do, or a person who only has themself to answer to and no one to pick up the slack for their sins?

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 12/14/2006 at 12:34 AM

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JstNodNsmle:  “From this experience I learned that if a teenager doesn’t want to change, they won’t… But, as I am not a parent, I haven’t learned if there may be any specific techniques that work.

Quite right though as a psych major you know this is true of people at every age.  People won’t change until they’re damn good and ready.  Sounds like you’re on a pretty good track, though.

As a parent with three grown children, I am also not aware of any specific techniques that “work”.  If you can reach a troubled teen and help them find their way, you have been the beneficiary of an element of luck along with your skill and caring.

I hope it turns out OK for this girl.  Mainly I just hope she survives it and can rebuild some hope and direction in her life.  Or build some, if she never had any before.

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