You might find some useful stuff from the various ‘Humanist’ organisations.

It took a lot of courage for Mary to write that letter and she is very insightful for recognizing that atheism does not mean a lack of respect, ethics, or morality.  Mary might mention that there are a number of very famous atheists and that they do not stand for those things that she thinks atheism means. 

Some famous atheists (and similar beliefs) from http://www.wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org/Quotes.htm

Abraham Lincoln, Albert Einstein, Ernest Hemingway, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, Walt Disney, Samuel Clemens “Mark Twain”, and others.

I suppose that it wouldn’t do any good to suggest that Mary’s step daughter read Ernest Hemingway’s A Farewell to Arms.

As a good friend of mine puts it: “It’s a parent’s job to protect the teenager’s body until the mind re-engages.” It’s a simple enough statement, but not necessarily simple to do.

I’d guess that there’s little point to explain to her that atheism isn’t license to act unethically, because it may well be just another rebellion thing.

If she doesn’t want to he helped, it probably doesn’t matter what anyone tries. I don’t know if there is something that would encourage her to seek help - other than hitting rock bottom and getting a clue.

The girl reminds me nothing so much of Kevin Kline’s character in “A Fish Called Wanda”.  (Remember the part where he shoots the fly off the end of his foot and goes back to reading Nietsche?) My tuppence-worth:  Have a *real* athiest, someone with some serious intellectual chops, over for dinner and a sparring match.

Best of luck to you, Mary.  And take my advice with the proverbial grain of salt.  I don’t have any (two-legged) kids, so of course that makes me emininently qualified to tell someone else how to raise theirs.  And thanks so much for sticking up for people who don’t give athiesm a bad name.

As a former Christian the best I could say to any teen is “You will have to live inside the person you become”.  It is the personal equivalent of planetary ethics; there is an ecology of the spirit and it can be polluted and corrupted.  The same is true of the body.  The question of god’s existence has no bearing on this.

While there may be no eternal hell, you can make quite a good facsimile of hell in your life, and in the lives of people around you, by living destructively.  Atheism only means you don’t believe in God; look into Humanism.  Hope that helps.

Being that I was a very rebellious child only 10 years ago, I obviously don’t have any insight into how to parent the child, but I would say that it is likely she is just in a phase and will come out of this phase.  How soon is hard to tell, but I can guarantee it will happen.

I know playing the waiting game probably won’t work well because it sounds like she may be getting into some dangerous habits.  But I like the idea of bringing in a real Atheist that doesn’t equate Anarchy with Atheism.  Or if this is not feasible, it might be a good idea to find her someone else she can talk to, but can also relate to.

I know when I was rebelling I really just needed to talk to someone about my troubles or issues, but felt I couldn’t talk to my parents.  You could try taking her to a psychologist, but instead of sitting in on the sessions, make sure you tell her that you have no intention of finding out what she is talking about and make sure she knows the session are strictly between her and the psychologist.  This may be just enough to get her to open up to the psychologist, and may be what is needed to stop her rebellion.

Sorry I don’t have any better answers Mary, but I do wish you the best in your endeavors.  And thank you for not assuming all Atheists act as the girl does.

Mary, I wish I had the magic formula. I’d give it freely.
It sounds like the girl is carrying round a lot of resentment; toward her mother for dying and leaving her; towards you, your being alive, your goodness and concern and your coming into her life ‘to take her mother’s place’; towards herself for being alive and her inability to deal with it.

Back in the days I went to AA it was mentioned that friends and family left AA literature around the house in the hope the alcoholic might pick it up and read it and recognise his (her) problem - it had already been realised that talking and confronting the alcoholic with his problem was of NO use coz he (like everyone else) only hears what he wants to hear.

I don’t know that leaving Atheist literature around the house would be of much help to her because I doubt that her problem is as much about her ideas about what atheism is, as much as it is about her basic inability to deal with her grief, guilt, and fears.
It sounds like she’s still in one or all the first four stages.

With me it took a car accident and too many other things all happening on the night of August 5, 1983 to stop me long enough to have a look at where I was and where I was destined to go if I kept on down that road with the same level of self-destructive intensity.
I was lucky - hence LuckyJohn.

Elwed: other than hitting rock bottom and getting a clue

The reality is that she may have to experience a rock bottom that’ll stop for long enough for her to have a look and confront her life - that will take a whole lot of luck.
Whilst ever she doesn’t recognise she has an unresolved problem … she’ll have an unresolved problem.
I know that’s circular but it’s a fact.
The first part of resolving a problem is to recognise there is one.
If I may make one suggestion: it could (might?) help if talks to someone who has experienced similar loss and self-destruction and come out the other end.
There are millions of survivors about. 
She does not need religion - it’ll only muddy the waters as in shifting blame and responsibility and, if you will, ownership of her life.

It’s interesting she turned to her version of Atheism as a justification for her actions.
It sounds more like she’s blaming her version of Christianity for her losses – as in why did God do this to me?
She feels like a victim and she’s right – she thinks she’s the only one and she’s wrong.
We are all victims at some time or other in the sense that ‘shit happens’.
The measure is what we do about it.
Good luck. 

These are the Humanist principles I was raised and serve me well now.

http://www.jcn.com/manifestos.html

Quoting Queen Millefiori:

These are the Humanist principles I was raised and serve me well now.

Woah they’re formal, i guess it doesn’t change the principles but treating it as a defacto package will raise fundies, even if it is to Humanism.

Thing is if you don’t believe in god why bother having any morals? Surely they just make life more difficult. Indeed why is life even considered important? Perhaps fear of non-existance accounts for liking life, but what’s so good about existance? You have to do stuff like go to work and eat, etc. If the world were to end that isn’t necessarily such a bad thing, i may even find a way to bring it on one day.

Children are human beings who have yet to reach a certain level of maturity, Whatever rules that applies to adults, also applies to children. This young woman needs to know that she is in full possession of herself, and also accountable for her actions. Beyond that, what can you do?

You can be a friend. About the best therapy a young person can have is an adult that possesses both love and tolerance during the years when young people experiment with indifference.

It’s just my opinion, but from the minimal information that was given, I would say she is rebelling because someone is attempting to control her, and it is not setting well. It could be something small, Like clothes or cosmetic issues. She is not a dog and cannot be trained like one. This is a common mistake made by many parents, they start with rewarding good, and punishing bad behaviors. That may work with poodles, but not with a teenager. It helps if these attitudes towards children can be initiated at birth.

Now that she is in her teens, and it would help to know exactly how old. But assuming she is say 13, 14. It’s not too late to start some new rules, and not hers either. These rules are for you, Starting with, You’re not automatically her mother, her mother is dead. I guess you will be her step mother by legality, But what you want is to be her friend and perhaps if she allows maybe “Mom”. You’ll have to earn that name however.

As for the issues regarding religion, What religion you choose, or not choose, is none of her business, and her choices are none of yours. Again this is her life, so it is also her trials and her errors.

As for sexuality, nothing you can do about that short of chaining her in a closet, It would help everyone’s health if she could understand that STD’s are a serious global health issue. 

I genuinely feel that you want what is best for her, Please just try getting out of her way, when she is convinced, that her life belongs to her, you will see a change.

Mary, Lucky John hit it on the head (even Dr. Laura Schlessinger would agree). Best you can hope for is that one of her peers, who have much more influence in her life than parents at this stage, can help her to want to change her attitude. Until she wants to change, she won’t, and no one can make her. But when she discovers she has all the power to make her life what she wants it to be, and stops being a victim, she can completely change everything.

Before I start we did try counseling, she refused to speak…

I’m not clear if the “we” means that you tried family counseling or if it means that yourself and your fiancee’ had her see a counselor.

If it was the former, I would strongly recommend the latter.  I don’t know what resources you have, but finding an excellent female counselor is paramount.  A male counselor is worthless to her right now and she will attempt to play him.  Even if you have tried individual counseling, try again.  It doesn’t matter if she doesn’t talk for the first few sessions, keep taking her to the 2nd, the 3rd and even the 4th sessions. 

I would also venture to guess that her self-reported atheism has little to nothing to do with her behaviors, but is rather in response to her father’s theism and anger at the loss of her mother.  It appears to be an anti-theism, not atheism.  Explaining why atheists have values is a good thought, but will be of little consequence to her. 

As regards her promiscuity, I would strongly encourage you to ensure that she is made aware of the need for condoms.  I’m not saying provide them, but make sure she knows about them and where to get them.  Better that she be promiscuous and alive to regret it, than dead.

There is so much that is unknown.  I’m left wondering if there are any female role models that the child has or has had.  If there is, and they are willing to make a large time committment, enlist their help.  Time spent with that individual is less time for her to spend doing what she is currently doing.  Further, the positive role-modeling may have some effect.

Does she have any healthy outlets? Hobbies?  School activities? Can you involve her in activities/clubs that would help to foster healthier behaviors? 

It may be true that you can lead a horse to water and you can’t make it drink, but you damn sure can make it thristy.

Don’t ever stop trying to make her thirsty.

This girl doesn’t have a religion problem, she has an attitude problem. Atheism is just a word she’s throwing around because she doesn’t know the right word to describe herself.

The mother should condition herself to replace her daughter’s use of the word “atheist” with “disturbed”.

While I commend the general intelligence of the posters on this board, and the regularly insightful comments, I don’t think this is the right board for asking about children’s general psychological and rebellion problems.

She doesn’t sound like an atheist.  She sounds like a nihilist.  Tell her to wake up and get her terms right.  Nihilism is the second most logical worldview outside of Christianity.

Nihilism is the second most logical worldview outside of Christianity.

You wish; there’s humanism in between them.  But please, let’s not get into the theism/atheism thing here.  The teen girl is in the worst kind of trouble - she has lost her way.  No approach guarantees her finding it again.

Maybe if there were a way to entice her to read this thread?  Here’s a bunch of complete strangers - atheists and religious people - who are concerned for her welfare and many have given some very good advice.  It may help her become thirsty.

I would strongly encourage you to ensure that she is made aware of the need for condoms.  I’m not saying provide them

I would.
My wild child niece wanted it all and did it all.
Somehow my sister got her on the pill and the use of condoms, and let her go for a while - tough times - then my sister decided it was time to come back ... and my grown up niece came back.
Now? 33, happily married, plenty money and two beautiful kids and they all love grandma.

Bob: I don’t think this is the right board for asking about children’s general psychological and rebellion problems.

Everything can be right in its time.
Don’t forget: information is power. 

Another thing, Mary - don’t take any of this and try it tonite ... wait a week till all the stuff and concepts have settled into your intuitive knowingness.
There’s quite a nice cross-section here; Pagan, Nihilist, Atheist, Spiritual atheism, Deist, Anti-theist ... and even one or two Christians.
Within it all you may glean parts that work.

Again, I say: don’t bring God into this cos that’s who is responsible for ‘her life/mother’s leaving her and her death!’ (both of them, too potentially).
It’s scary psychological ground rules that you’re playing here.
But it could work if you leave everybody’s ‘expectations’ off the table.
All she needs is love and support, with absolute unconditionality. 

It may help her become thirsty.

One other thing ... has she mentioned suicide?
Like, how extreme is this?
Why don’t you bring it up ... subtly?
Confront stuff; as my brother says to his two boys ... don’t muck around! Name it.
Or as I often said to my salesmen: gimme the bottom line!
I’m not too interested how ... what and why ... what are you gonna do and or what you want from me?
With any luck she may ask what you want from her. 
There’s your opening. Make it gentle and non-judgemental.

Back to the quote above about this being the right place ??
This is as honest as it gets because there are no ulterior motives.
I don’t usually do absolute statements but I doubt there are too many psychological axes to be sharpened here. 
Most of us have been somewhere and escaped and or dealt with it somehow.
I’ve been playing here for about a year – none of us is perfect but we’re all trying to be the best, as well as the most honourable, we can within our own limitations. 
You can take that to the bank.

DoF: Maybe if there were a way to entice her to read this thread?

Damn. My ego would get too involved.
I couldn’t handle that ... hahaha - you can ‘bank on’ ego trippers …

There is good advice in this thread, as well as a significant amount of caring…

I’ve certainly had struggles with my own kids, so I can understand a little of the distress Mary might be feeling. I personally searched for ways to help my son get through the struggles he found himself in. I tried both hard and soft touches and learned a very simple fact: No one can make decisions for another. One can suffer with them, but the other has to come to a place where they are willing to make decisions that will take them in a positive direction.

I learned that we never stop loving our children, even when they make poor choices. We may disagree with those choices and may understand the potential outcomes far better than the child, but that doesn’t change our care for them. Neither does it change the child’s responsibility for their actions. (That was a hard lesson for Wife, who so desperately wanted to interdict.) I had to learn to separate the behavior from the person (that was my lesson from the experience) and continue to love my son, even when I had to be really hard on him. I spent a lot of time on my knees and in tears over him.

I learned the pain from this experience washes over the entire family. It is challenging to maintain a sense of peace in the midst of this storm. If it’s possible, be an anchor for the child—provide a safe place to harbor when she finally begins to figure things out.

I don’t know, I can probably write more, but I think I’ll stop. It’s a tough spot to be in, but if there’s comfort in knowing others have been in similar places, then take comfort Mary. Wife and I have been through our familial hell and survived. My son is also doing much better now, if that offers any hope too.

While there may be no eternal hell, you can make quite a good facsimile of hell in your life, and in the lives of people around you, by living destructively.

Sometimes that provides a sense of power in a world in which one seems powerless.  While I hate second-guessing the motivations of strangers (as we’re all doing here), that seems as sound a “diagnosis” as any of the others offered.

If so, it may be that providing her with more areas where she’s acknowledged to have control over her life (with boundaries on her impact on others’ lives) might be a start.  Teach her she has control beyond the ability to just make everyone (herself included) miserable.

Or I may just be talking out of my hat.

As to giving her this comments list to read, it might be useful—or it might turn into, “You told other people about me?  That’s not right.  That’s not how I am.  What makes those people think they know me and how to fix my life?  It’s not broken.  I hate you.”

I *will* say (in case she does eventually read this) that, as one of the “one or two Christians” cited above (albeit a fairly unorthodox one), I find a number of the avowed atheists here to be anything but self-centered, destructive, or uncaring.  On the contrary, many of them (esp. the site owner) strike me as fine individuals I’m pleased to associate with and am happy to respect.  For what it’s worth.

My two cents: Kid’s best to find herself. Younger times in my life remind me that kids these days shoulder a lot of shit from everyone. Missing a parent doesn’t make that any easier. If I’d not had some people who were mentors and support structures for me, I’d’ve been a very different person.

Or maybe not. In a lot of ways I still am angry and rebellious, but instead of acting in a fashion that displays it overtly, it’s only melded into my philosophies. When I need to get something done, the anger is what drives it; I’m all business in my work and political/intellectual life. I’m a quiet social rebel - that is, I have little notion of right or wrong, and I have a worldview that puts me at odds with virtually everyone. I’m a harsh critic of idealism. I needed an emotional centre to do that - a sort of ‘pivot’ I could work around, that I knew was going to be there that I could always rebuild from every time the last “build” failed.

The trick is to make sure she’s clear on that she can usually select a life that she wants to live and it’s gonna be within reach of her potential. The best thing you can do for this woman is to give her your unconditional support. Make sure she’s absolutely clear on the potential dangers of her behavior and help her understand that her welfare is your concern, first and foremost. She only needs the resources to live into her own potential.

I don’t care one way or another about her sexuality, except stay safe!!! Promiscuity does not have to mean recklessness! As regards any drug use that may be going on, drugs are really only good for an experiment. Most of the people I know who do them regularly don’t have a career or any ambition to do anything other than fool around and do drugs. At best, they drain your wallet for a couple moments of joy. As far as the theft goes… I dunno. I don’t see theft being overly useful in the long run. Besides, thieves with big take-home are usually scandalous businesspeople and politicians, and that requires a whole different skillset. If she wants to be a professional thief, look there; least risk.

A lot of the things that we think are “bad” are things that aren’t useful (or are detrimental to) choosing the life that we want. That’s the million-dollars question she should make a point of trying to figure out in the next couple years. What kinda life do I want to live?

Letting her engage here may well have been a good piece of advice- she needs to look an athiest in the eye before she claims to be one. If we see “Mary’s Stepdaugher” on this thread we’ll know the SP. It’s a pity that the claim that athiesm is a religion is a lie- we’d have a whole network of people she could talk to for pastoral care.

I find the hardest thing about being an athiest is being a humanist too. Know that it is, in the end, all going to end in the ‘big black’ and still trying to improve the lot of my fellow man (or at least help them with the crap). Atheism isn’t a moral code, it’s a ‘non-belief’ (that is v. short hand, I know).  What atheism does is effectively say- “You’re behavior is down to you”. 

What this girl is isnt athiest, but ‘deityist’- a hatred of god(s). She blames God for the bad things in life (because she has been told he is the controlling force), so is trying to punish him by denying him.

Mary,
Clearly this child has experienced one of lifes more traumatic experiences: the loss of a parent while still a child.
Now you are in the picture. Do not make the mistake of thinking “stepmother” means you are her mother.  You have neither the experience, biological relationship or human right to impose this relationship on her. That is something that will only be valid with HER permission.  She may sense that you are or will do this and is acting out in defiance of an imposed authority. 

I witnessed how badly this can go when my very religious widowed mother married a very religious widower.  They both brought into this 2 step"sons" from each side (I was already an adult and married so I witnessed what happened to my 2 brothers and the 2 step-brothers).  As both my mother and her husband automatically assumed the role of mother and father they acted accordingly.  The result: constant tension and friction in the step-relationships and eventual alienation of the step-parent (assisted, not in the least, by a propensity to be a harsher critic of the step child vs own child).

As to sexual “promiscuity” concerns, first realize that parents do not own their children, they are protectors and guardians.  The parents job is to guide and protect the child and that can include restrictions (curfew etc.).  But if she is determined to be sexually active she will be.  It is better to think about “what do I do if she gets pregnant or gets an STD” and how to avoid that than to come up with elaborate plans to twart her intentions.  Remember, some teens are sexually active out of rebellion (can’t tell you how many times I saw this behavior amoung conservative Christian families).  We have to face the reality, we don’t own their sexuality either.

BTW I find the conservative Christian preoccupation with “promiscuity” (whatever that means, it gets broadly applied) disturbing especially compared to the way many praise individuals who choose celibacy, which is in biological fact, an unnatural sexual lifestyle.

First of all : congrats to Mary for
- trying so hard to help the kid, even though it would be so much easier to get angry with her and let her down
- reading and appreciating SEB despite different worldviews
- being smart enough to seek help when she feels overwhelmed.
I mean, really.

Secondly : the idea of God-hater vs atheist is a good one, but wrong radicals : it would be something along the lines of “theophobe” or “misotheist”.

More seriously, God doesn’t have anything to do with behaving. Does she sometimes contest something by saying “it’s not fair!” ?. That is the ultimate basis : empathy.
but I have no idea of the way you could get her to understand that.

Does she have any kind of special interest? music, art, sports come to mind (pardon the stereotypes, i’ve always been the booky type, so I don’t really know ).
Could it be possible to get her interested into anything other that having her bains screwed out? (not that I object to this one, though, it done properly)
A purpose in life can go a long way to keep you away form death fascination…

This young lady lost her mother due to drug use and free sexuality which sent her mother to a grave at a way too early age… Her father, straight arrow…

I forgot to add, I find this statement particularly telling. I basically condemns her deceased mother and ,contextually, implicates the mother for the girl’s behavior.  At the same time her father gets a “gold star”, and his possible contribution to his daughter’s behavior gets a free pass.

Mary,

I personally think she’s using “atheism” to hurt you and your fiance, as it appears religion is important to you. And it’s a power trip; perhaps the only way she has any power is by hurting herself, and then the people around her by her actions.

I can’t imagine that this girl has any respect for you, even though you do care for her well being. Therefore, whatever you say she’ll not listen. Please find someone she’ll respect a teacher, a friend, a relative. She needs to know that she can get through this.

An interesting read about teens http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/6209308.stm

All the best.

errr...that should be “It basically...”