Religion itself is the fount of most evil.

Posted by Bachalon on Sunday, July 24, 2005 at 09:19 PM. Read 3462 times. Tags:
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Found this in today’s Sunday Herald, and thought I’d share some of it with you guys.

For the government of a secular country such as ours to treat religion as if it had real merit instead of regarding it as a ridiculous anachronism, which education, wisdom and experience can hopefully overcome in time, is one of the most depressing developments of the 21st century. Religious people must be treated with the same respect as non-religious people, but their religions should quite properly be regarded with the weary contempt they deserve. Instead we have debates on TV news shows between hardline Muslim scholars and moderate Muslim politicians without any intervening voice of scepticism suggesting that the whole darned thing might be just as invented as virgin births and Mormon tablets.

We have bishops arguing with Christian women about ordination as if this is an important issue, again without the obvious interjection that it is unlikely in the extreme that there exists any god at all, never mind a peculiar one who cares what sex wears the cassock. And there goes old nutty Ruth Kelly using taxpayers’ money to introduce a whole new clutch of assorted religious schools that will abuse the innocence of trusting children by teaching them superstition alongside facts to ensure they cannot separate the two.

The defence of any attacked faith is always to say: “You don’t understand our religion.” It’s considerably more likely that those defenders of their rrational beliefs have failed to understand Montesquieu, Hume, Rousseau and Diderot. The tattooed drunken morons attending an Orange walk are hardly theologians.

Since these are dark days, it’s time to stop all this polite tiptoeing around religion and harden up accordingly. Our elected leaders constantly bleating their respect for religion is not political correctness but a public declaration that intellect, tolerance, democracy, reason and enlightenment are of less value than dogma and delusion. Now’s the moment for a clear, definite, distinct line to be drawn between state and religion, one that defends the individual’s right to follow whatever ideology he or she wishes within the law, but also firmly declares and vigorously defends our collective ideals of gender equality, respect for differing sexual orientations and reinforces the message that there is no room whatsoever for the supernatural and the irrational. No bishops, mullahs, Presbyterian ministers, rabbis, or Scientologists should be gifted special hearings at Downing Street, but should confine themselves to wielding their power and freedom as the rest of us do, namely as ordinary voters, and the state-funded faith schools that shame us all with their manipulation of young minds must cease. We have all been mugged, but the shock must take us back to reason and as far away from religion as we can get.

What do you think?

Comments:

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joe United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 10:47 AM

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I dunno, the whole Santa belief vs. God belief begs the question, “If your parents made up one lie, can you trust anything else they say?” wink

Seriously:  how are most people introduced to religion?  When they’re kids, their parents hand them a book and say, “Everything in this book is true and you must do as it says.” They are never taught to question or doubt.  If a kid is precocious enough to ask questions about the nature of man and the universe, the answer is something like “God works in mysterious ways.” or “It’s not right to question God.” and never “I don’t have enough imagination to conceive of any possibility beyond some big bearded guy sitting in the clouds using magic powers to create everything and compel our behavior because that’s how I was raised.” Some religious extremist parents might even think their kid was possessed by evil spirits.

That’s why movies like “Zardoz” or the “Waiting for God” episode of Red Dwarf (not only how the cats “created” their religion, but Rimmer’s unwavering belief that the garbage capsule is proof of an advanced alien civilization) fascinate me--what began as perfectly “innocent” objects got adopted, twisted, perverted into bases for lifestyles and beliefs.

True, this line of thinking can lead us down the path of “Well, how do you I Thomas Jefferson truly existed?  How do you I George Bush is a real person and not some actor on a TV show so popular that all the channels carry it?  How do I know anything I perceive is true or real at all?  Well, I don’t.  But I am practical about it.  If the things imaginary-Jefferson said sound like good ideas, then I will agree with them.  If actor-Bush is convincing people to hate gays and non-Christians, then I think his influence is a bad one.  And even if the world I inhabit is just an illusion (a la the Matrix), I can either sit here and be glum about it, or I can make the best of it and enjoy friendships, hobbies, and travel (even if it’s all a dream)--until such time I am able to perceive alternate realities, if such realities exist!

--Joe wink wink

Bachalon United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 04:42 PM

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OB and joe, you said it perfectly.

I don’t have much of a problem with most people’s beliefs (besides thinking them infantile and false), but I draw the line at where beliefs influence behavior adversely.

BunBun United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 08:19 PM

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Yea. Yet i do know a few beliefs that I believe are not infantile. I still think them BS but I give them the right that they are not as stupid as some thing like christianity. Something like the buddhism (spelling—I have no idea of how to spell that, I hope its right). The goal of spiritual enlightenment which does not really require a belief in a god per say. At least thats how I understand it; I may be wrong. So what I am trying to say is that a belief where people strive for a state of “knowing”—a state of oneness I guess—is better than simply reading a book and assuming every thing it sais is true. My example is the Japanese samurai. Thay would meditate and all and had some of the hardest mental disipline I have ever heard of yet they were Buddhist(or some thing like that, I cant remember right now). Basically I do not see belief that humans are more than just walking bags of chemical reactions to be infantile, rather I think belief in a single omnipotent being infantile.

Wow I dont think I made any sense at all there. My thoughts were rather confused at best(and the awful spelling). I’m tired. Sorry for any inconvience in reading it.

Cheers BunBun

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 09:00 PM

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Not to worry, BunBun - your point was clear if your examples were not.  Every religion - including Buddhism - contains tension between those who practice ritual only and those who try to understand deeply.  Think of the contrast between Rhinehold Neibuhr and Pat Robertson.

The samurai were Confucian and adhered to Bushido, or “warrior’s honor”.  Damn, that just sounds cool to say it.

BunBun United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 09:14 PM

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I know about bishido—it translates better as the way of the warrior. Bushi meaning warrior and do meaning way (at least thats what the books I have read say). However I thought they ended up getting a substancial amount of buddhist influences from main land asia. And I always thought that confucianism was Chinese. But what do I know?

Cheers BunBun

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 09:26 PM

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You’re right Confucianism was Chinese, but I remember that the Samurai were deeply influenced by it.  Hmm.  There must have been more cultural crosstalk between China and Japan than I knew.  I am out of my depth… is there an Asian comparitive religion history person in the house?  Capitalist Pig, are you listening?

BunBun United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 09:38 PM

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As I remember it they had something called Shintoism. I could be wrong beause I dont remember too well but it was similar to confucianism. I might try and look it up on wikipedia.

Cheers BunBun

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BunBun United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 09:48 PM

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I read the beginings of an article on wikipedia and basically what it said was something like this: japan had its own religion/philosophy called shinto. Which translates to something like the way of the spirits. Then buddhism came along and got mixed with shintoism. Eventually the spirits or kamis from shintoism became a sort of buddha. But decrepit: I, too, am out of my depth.

Cheers BunBun

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BunBun United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 09:51 PM

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Forgot something: heres the link: Shintoism

Cheers BunBun

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Justice United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 10:40 PM

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OB, fair enough.

warbi: A scientist sees certain phenomona and tries to develop a parsimonious hypothesis that explains these observations and can accurately predict future related phenomona.

And as science progresses, things previously attributed to the supernatural get explained. I’m not talking about scientists chasing after congregations. Perhaps that is where we missed each other.

THEOCRAT United States Posted on 07/28/2005 at 11:04 PM

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OB: However, if that person is actively seeking to change public policy in order to bring ABOUT the return of Jesus, I’ll only stop laughing at their beliefs long enough to fight tooth and nail to keep THEIR fantasies out of laws that apply to ME.

If Christian politicians really wanted Christ to return they would get out of politics.  The world has to be in spiritual chaos first, which would mean trying to legislate Biblical morality is only going to postpone Christ’s return.  Yall have to have your way with the world before the time comes to test whether or not it really was a myth.

wesj39 United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 01:07 AM

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If Christian politicians really wanted Christ to return they would get out of politics.

Not necessarily, politics work.  Christianity could be just a theory.  Perhaps some aliens came to earth and thought of creating organization among chaos.  For Gods Sakes, people were putting people on stakes and nailing nails in their hands.  Two other people were put up with Jesus Christ.  Enlighten me on what made Jesus so great and what makes him so real?  Look at your bible, who made it?  Thanks.  Show me some evidence, any web page.  Now the constitution, that’s some evidence of how politics works.  Attack anything you want, I want to know your opinions.

Uber Gaijin United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 02:13 PM

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Yall have to have your way with the world before the time comes to test whether or not it really was a myth.

Hasn’t that time come and gone already?  After Jesus supposedly died and supposedly came back, wasn’t the majority of the world non-Christian?  Wasn’t the number of Christians less than 1000 while the number of people in thw world numbered in the millions?  Didn’t those people have their way?

Beau Tochs United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 03:12 PM

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Theocrat writes: The world has to be in spiritual chaos first, which would mean trying to legislate Biblical morality is only going to postpone Christ’s return.  Yall have to have your way with the world before the time comes to test whether or not it really was a myth.

Jesus must’ve lied.  He said was gonna return, and all his disciples waited around, spreading the gospel far and near, writing epistles and healing people and setting up churches and stuff . . . but sooner or later, they all died off, and Jesus NEVER RETURNED:

Matthew 16:27-28 (KJV)- “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

So where *are* these 2000-year-old disciples/apostles/followers who *must* be still walking the earth, patiently waiting to see Jesus’ return?  After, Jesus *said* . . .

That’s a rhetorical question, of course - they *don’t* exist, because it simply never happened.

warbi United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 04:25 PM

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DOF:  Shinto was the “original” religion of the Asiatic Japanese (not sure what mythology the Ainu have).  Shinto is animistic- everything has a spirit, rocks, creeks, et al.  Buddhism was introduced to Japan via China.  There are probably as many Buddhist sects as there are Christian ones.  In some, Buddha is viewed as a type of “godhead” having achieved perfection that others can only hope to attain.  In others, such as Zen Buddhism, this perfection is attainable by anyone who applies himself to the task.  I would classify Zen Buddhism as more of a philosophy than a religion per se.  Of course Christianity has been introduced to the Japanese as well.  It is interesting to note that Shinto is still not an uncommon belief system among the Japanese.  The samurai were predominantly influenced by Zen Buddhist teachings, but Confucianism and Shinto had small roles as well.  Bushido was the code of conduct.

BunBun United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 04:36 PM

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Well said warbi. Thanks for the overview.

Cheers BunBun

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BunBun United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 04:37 PM

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By the way what does DOF mean?

Cheers BunBun

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Justice United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 04:44 PM

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big surprise Oh. My. GOD! BunBun, DOF is decrepitoldfool. Bow down, bitch!

hehehe.. sorry, couldn’t resist.

Signed,
DOF Groupie

BunBun United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 04:54 PM

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Oh what ever… how am I supposed to know what that acronym meant. I am relatively new here. So you bow down.

Cheers BunBun

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decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 05:04 PM

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Thank you, Warbi-san.  That is most helpful. tongue wink

Why Justice, what a nice thing to say!  red face

BunBun - that’s the spirit!  Toss those empties right back!  LOL

Justice United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 05:27 PM

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BunBun, cheese you’ll do just fine!

DOF, you had me at the kittens.  raspberry

warbi United States Posted on 07/29/2005 at 06:26 PM

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Damn, I’ve been here for somewhere around half a year and I had no idea that DOF had spawned his own cult!!! big surprise  What are the basic tenets of DOFism?  lol

decrepitoldfool United States Posted on 07/30/2005 at 09:51 AM

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Damn, I’ve been here for somewhere around half a year and I had no idea that DOF had spawned his own cult!!! big surprise What are the basic tenets of DOFism?  lol

Tenets?  Tenets?!! I have to come up with tenets now?  Hmm… lemme see… something about walking around with one sandal on.  I’d have to watch Life Of Brian again to be certain.

Not sure running a cult is for me, though.  You have to get the compound built, recruit the disaffected youth, stockpile the weapons, find Kool-Aid recipes, come up with tenets, stay off the FBI and IRS radar; then there’s the daily haranguing of followers… it sounds like a lot of work.

I think I’ll just stick to my day job.

BunBun United States Posted on 07/30/2005 at 10:00 AM

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Cults are funny. When people say cult I think of iPods. I hate those things.

Cheers BunBun

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Paddy Great Britain (UK) Posted on 07/30/2005 at 09:02 PM

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You have some fair points and i commend them, i enjoy the arguments of Betrand Russel,( here comes the but), but religion was never meant to become what it has, where it is impossible to tell the words of God from a pervert calling himself pope, religion is a personal thing; saying that everyone can find God down the same road is like saying everyone must wear the same clothes. I hate the idea that i cannot understand what god thinks or what is planned, it irritates me more than you can know, but if you look inside yourself you will find 2 things, a voice TELLING you God exists and one questioning his existence, surely it is better to believe the one telling you than the one questioning. Religion is not meant to be organised in any way shape or form, God will do that not an idiot in a white collar, they are not representatives of God, if so God likes little children more than we can know!Do not dismiss the idea you believe in God purely on the basis that some people seek power from him, they are more akin to satan that God, find God your own way, not how a pervert tells you to!

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