what stops you from commiting suicide? what possible hope do you have? Your life is completly useless from your perspective. All you’ve got are a bunch of smart ass comments, and a website to make them on. All you do is argue, your probably thinking something up right now against this comment. Can’t you ever take anything to heart?
joking aside,
I pity you.

*Waves her anti troll stick* Begone you’ll get no morsels here....

Troll roasted on the barbecue - my favourite meal .

Ohmygoodness! He’s RIGHT! *Sniff!* GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD!

*BANG!*

...Thud…

Oh great! Thanks, Dr B. Did you even ONCE think about the implications of your comments?

- Our building is now out a tech person.
- I’ll have to go get coffee with somebody else
in the morning AND our lunch routine is all
screwed up.
- I’ll have to find somebody else to brainwash
me and turn me into a minion.

You’ve really blown it.

-JO

Wow, you guys are classic! All you’ve done is prove what I stated earlier, nothing has any meaning to you, your so quick to defend yourself with your apparently “witty” comebacks. you guys are real geniuses…

Yes and of course here we have a classic example of Trollus flatuous verbosa. Trolls aside though, that’s a pretty good trailer, I haven’t even seen reloaded yet so I’d better get my proverbial skates on!!!

Oh and Dr B a word to the wise if you expect to be taken seriously here, then try posting like an adult and not a Troll, until then the jokes most assuredly on you. =P

oh, my apologies serai, your holiness, I forgot how much wiser you are than me. What was I thinking?  Joking aside, my original comment, not meant to be taken the way it was, should have been stated differently I do admit. It was more so directed at; what drives you to live when your life is a fluke? What reason is there for your being here? thats all, I’ll try not be “troll-like” if thats what you would have.

Dr. B, are you a real doctor. If so, what are you a doctor of? What is your specialty?

brock, I get asked that alot, however I seldom answer due to fact that it won’t solve anything, they usually ask as a means to disprove my validity in what I have to say. I’ve learned alot from people, doctors or not. If i admit to being one people will come to the conclusion that I’m just some wacko dr.  but if I claim I’m not one, then comes the “your not a Dr? then your just some guy”. So I don’t see any benefit. I do love Science though i will tell you that!

What drives me to live my life if it’s just a fluke? Well, there’s pissing off people like yourself for my own personal amusement. That’s one good reason.

Allow me to reverse the question for a moment: Why do you assume that people who don’t believe in God have no purpose in life or that we lack hope or that we feel our lives are completely useless?

Personally, I’d be more inclined to commit suicide if I honestly believed that the only reason I was created was to ass-kiss some self-important Deity for my entire life.

Well, Dr B, excuse the assumption but it seems that if you have earned the title you would be proud to claim it. Also it seems that you underestimate by assuming we will disallow you credibility if you are “just some guy”. I don’t think being a doctor of anything gives one a leg up when it comes to understanding theology. Nor do I think being “just some guy” limits one’s ability to grasp theological concepts. Most are here to discuss life the universe and everything from their unique vantage points. Some simply desire to pass on borrowed and valued viewpoints that they feel adequately represent their core beliefs. Most of us have presumptions that we present and validate imperfectly, but we try.

If you had said, “I’m not a doctor, I only borrowed the distinctive and respect engendering title”, I would have faulted you for being shallow and lazy. As it is, I don’t know how to take you; as you use the title of doctor, but refuse to qualify it. I’m tempted to dismiss you because you seem to lack trust in others and seem to lack confidence in your own ability to personify a title of distinction.

Given what you’ve said before I suspect you may not be a doctor of anything, or perhaps you’re a doctor of Rap-ology, which is the same as being a doctor of nothing. Still, your title might allow you instant respect, dependant upon the web site visited and the intelligence levels of the other visitors to that site. Please accept my apology, though, if the title of doctor is valid.

One other nit picky thing: “your” is not the same word as “you’re”, which is a contraction. It drives me crazy when people use “your” when “you are” or “you’re” should be used instead. This malpractice is entirely too prevalent.

brock, I thank you for your response, I like the way you think. It seems you have a little more to say than those of the previous comments. I’m glad that you see that the title is irrelevant to the amount of ones knowledge.

les, in answer to your question, the reason I assume this is because from your perspective, when you die, thats it. When looking at an eternity, that is the smallest little window of life. If being saved, or not being saved determines your eternity, why risk it? Even to speculate and say there is no God, I’ve lost nothing. the other way around and your screwed.
At least its more logical, thats all.
Thats my first reason.

Ah the old be a Christian to save your selfish arse argument, I like that one it’s a classic. Did it ever occur to you that some of us may not believe all that rubbish in the bible for good reasons?

For myself I made the choice years ago that I would reject Christianity in fact I reject all religions, and if there is a god and I am ever brought to task for my life, I will at least be able to say, I did what I believed was right, not what someone else told me was right.

I studied the bible for years, and I practiced as a Christian too, but when I finally challenged my own beliefs I discovered they were not based on the bible, in fact they aren’t based on any book, they are based on what I know for myself.

I could just as easily tell you to lay a hecatomb upon the altar of Zeus, because hey you never know he might just be the true god after all. In fact why take chances, lets go and join all the religions we can find just to be safe. Until someone can offer something a bit more substantial about these issues of faith I am personally quite happy to keep my own.

Well, you’ve managed to completely avoid answering the question, but let’s take a look anyway.

les, in answer to your question, the reason I assume this is because from your perspective, when you die, thats it. When looking at an eternity, that is the smallest little window of life.

And your point is… what, exactly? Your “answer” doesn’t explain why you’d think someone who believes that there’s nothing beyond this life to look forward to would want to cut their life short by committing suicide. Or why the lack of an afterlife removes hope from your current life.

If anything, I’d think Christians would be doing everything they could to end their lives early. Heaven is supposed to be so much better than anything on Earth could ever be so why hang around here making us non-believers miserable? Yeah, I know it’s technically a “sin” to commit suicide, but accidents don’t qualify as suicides so I’d expect you guys to engage in all kinds of high-risk activities like sky-diving or swimming with sharks. Oops, forgot to pack my parachute correctly! Where’s my slice of Heaven?

If being saved, or not being saved determines your eternity, why risk it? Even to speculate and say there is no God, I’ve lost nothing. the other way around and your screwed.
At least its more logical, thats all.
Thats my first reason.

Yes, we all know of Pascal’s wager. The problem with it first and foremost is that word “if.” “If” there is a God and “if” there is an afterlife and “if” said God gives a shit about whether or not someone is “saved” then I might be in serious trouble, true.

However, if my only reason for believing is because I fear the possibility that Christianity might be right and I’ll go to hell, well, that’s not a particularly sincere form of belief. If God is willing to take in believers who are only believing because it’s a safe bet, then one has to wonder what value there is in it for him/her/it.

Have you considered the idea that the Christians have gotten it all wrong and one of the other religions out there is the “true” religion and as such you may end up pissing God off anyway by worshiping a false religion? That’s also a possibility. Why should I assume that you’re on the right track as opposed to any one of the others out there? Perhaps I should just practice all the religions, just in case.

So on the face of it Pascal’s wager looks logical until you actually stop to consider things a little more in-depth. It’s more than an either/or equation. We covered Pascals wager a long time ago. If that’s the best argument you can come up with then you may as well stop trying now and save yourself some typing. Please, try to come up with something we’ve not already heard a million times before.

first of all, the job of christians is to spead the word to others, not to try to die because we want to get to heaven quicker, we’ll be there soon enough, we don’t live very long.
secondly, you evaded my question first by reversing it on me, (your ridiculously hypocritical) and I answered it!
You asked “why do I assume that atheists have no purpose in life?” so I stated one reason why.
I ask you to answer my original question still.
If your respose is “well, annoying the piss out of people like you” is your reason, then I suggest you get real and give me something to think about instead of something to laugh at.
also, the reason for my belief is in the Bible, it’s the inspired word of God. No other religion, including evolution, stands anywhere close to what the Bible has to say, it lives up to itself! Obviously you don’t have to believe it, because we have free choice. I love the fact that if we do or don’t have free choice you would still protest. “ohh God doesn’t show himself enough.” or the flip side “If God forces us then we don’t have free choice, we’re robots.” I also love your bit about “At least I did what I thought was right, and not what someone else told me.” That’s brilliant, like you’ve got a leg up on everyone else, wow.
did it ever occur to you that what you think is right, isn’t? do you somehow think that’s justification for you life? Man is with sin from the start and you think your judgement is valid against God’s?
you must be really something.
your relative thinking will get you nowhere, there are absolutes, and you know it.

Oh Deja vu, methinks we’ve had this argument before, ah yes we have. I have already explained in great detail to a slightly less arrogant and judgemental Christian on this very site why I hold the view that I am in fact the best person to decide my own destiny. You may think it prideful of me, so be it, but what is more prideful to decide for yourself, or to presume to decide for someone else what is right and wrong?

Yes it has occured to me that what I think is right may not be, and I really don’t mind being wrong do you? Have you ever thought to yourself ‘what if the bible is wrong?’. If God is silly enough to condemn me for not sifting through the 1000’s of religions who claim to be right, and for not discovering which one is really the extra super true path(tm) then I am sorry, but God is at fault not me.

Life is way too short to spend it looking for answers under piles of bullshit, I think if there really is a true ‘way’ then we each have it within we don’t need some spurious book to tell us, and we certainly don’t need the self righteous to either.

first of all, the job of christians is to spead the word to others, not to try to die because we want to get to heaven quicker, we’ll be there soon enough, we don’t live very long.

Like I said, I’d be more inclined to commit suicide if my only purpose in life were to ass-kiss some self-important Deity, which is pretty much what you’re saying here. You’re basically a pawn in an inter-dimensional popularity contest.

secondly, you evaded my question first by reversing it on me, (your ridiculously hypocritical) and I answered it! You asked “why do I assume that atheists have no purpose in life?” so I stated one reason why.

I am many things, but I try my best not to be hypocritical. I asked you why you felt that people who don’t believe in God have no purpose in life or that we lack hope or that we feel our lives are completely useless. You made a vague statement about how life is short and, compared to infinity, it’s a very tiny bit of time. Yes, that’s true, but that doesn’t answer my question. I don’t get the jump from “if this is all there is it’s a tiny slice of eternity” all the way over to “people like you have no hope and your lives are useless so you should commit suicide and just end it.” Perhaps the connection seems obvious to you, but so far you’ve not connected the dots for the rest of us.

I ask you to answer my original question still.
If your respose is “well, annoying the piss out of people like you” is your reason, then I suggest you get real and give me something to think about instead of something to laugh at.

Laugh all you want, but that is certainly one good reason to stick around. Ah, but you long for something a little more substantial for an answer. OK, I’ll play along for now.

The fact that I believe there is no after-life and that this tiny slice of time is all I’ll ever get is exactly why I don’t commit suicide. To me, that answer is rather obvious. I enjoy living and I find great joy in it. Sure it has it’s rough and painful moments, but it also has moments of great joy and pleasure. Gotta take the bad with the good. I continue living, in part, to see what’ll happen next. My life is like a really good book that I can’t put down.

also, the reason for my belief is in the Bible, it’s the inspired word of God. No other religion, including evolution, stands anywhere close to what the Bible has to say, it lives up to itself!

I’ve read the Bible front to back 4 times now. If it’s the inspired word of God then he needs a better secretary to dictate to. I see you’re one of those folks who insist that Evolution is a religion. You’re quickly writing your name into my book of Internet Nut-cases.

Obviously you don’t have to believe it, because we have free choice. I love the fact that if we do or don’t have free choice you would still protest. “ohh God doesn’t show himself enough.” or the flip side “If God forces us then we don’t have free choice, we’re robots.” I also love your bit about “At least I did what I thought was right, and not what someone else told me.” That’s brilliant, like you’ve got a leg up on everyone else, wow.

Seems to me you’re responding to some of Serai’s comments at this point. Be nice if you identified whom you’re speaking to.

did it ever occur to you that what you think is right, isn’t? do you somehow think that’s justification for you life? Man is with sin from the start and you think your judgement is valid against God’s?

You have to believe there is a God before you can think your judgment is valid “against” God’s. Not believing in the existence of God you may as well have asked me “you think your judgement is valid against the Easter Bunny’s?” To which I’d say, yes, because I don’t believe in him either.

Have I ever considered that what I think is right, isn’t? Yes, on many occasions. That’s part of why I’m an atheist now. I used to be a Baptist in my youth. I question what I believe to be right and wrong whenever I’m presented with a good argument or another viewpoint to consider. That’s how I grow and learn and become a better person.

you must be really something.

Yes I am, thank you! At least I have half-way decent sentence structure and punctuation. Dude, at least use a spell checker.

your relative thinking will get you nowhere, there are absolutes, and you know it.

Do I now? And you have special insight into what I know and don’t know because you’re a graduate of Ms. Cleo’s School for Telephone Telepathy or something? Thank you for being so arrogant as to presume to tell me what I know and believe.

serai, I’m not deciding for you what is right or wrong, i’m saying that there already is a right or wrong, and its God’s, not mine for you.
You said “and I really don’t mind being wrong do you?”. Considering what’s at stake, yes, I would mind being wrong about this issue. What your saying is being willingly ignorant.
I have considered that the Bible may be wrong, but every time, it proves itself, until it does otherwise, I’ll continue my belief in it.
Then, exactly like I said you would in my previous post, you blame God for not revealing enough of himself to you. Don’t you see? thats you beloved freedom that he’s given you, if he revealed himself vividly to everyone’s face, you’d be saying “God forces us to follow him, we’re not free”. Your getting nowhere in your blaming of God.
Then you say “I think if there really is a true ‘way’ then we each have it within”
So basically here you’ve said “i think if there are real absolutes, then they are all relative.
hmmm… maybe you’ve “evolved” a little futher than me and can grasp that one.
There is no way to logically wrap your head around truly believing that it is relative from person to person. You can cerainly wish and hope that it’s true, thus making it a religion (that’s why I consider Evolution to be a religion, because you have to imagine that it happend to believe it, just like you say i do to God.) I believe I can slap les’s prevalent easter bunny remark on that one. Belief in absolutes atleast has structure and is logically sound.

Les, to start with, I enjoyed reading your new site entry about the full moon or whatever, but who are the other “nut-cases”? Other than myself, who beyond a shadow of a doubt is one because you’ve said so. I’d be interested on reading their “lunacy”.
You getting mad at my assuming of things always make me laugh, given the way you feel about hypocrisy.
I liked the scaring of the children bit too, why don’t you just scroll up the page, take a quick look at that picture of yours and realize that you don’t need a full moon to scare small children, you could pull that off in broad daylight.
But that aside, I realize your just poking fun at me, and I you, which is not the reason I post my notes.
If you feel that personifying what I have to say into that of a raving loony will help your atheist friends realize how stupid I am, then feel free, you’ve already got the advantage arguing against me on this site as it is, (it’s your site, and it’s mainly non-Christians), but if you feel you need more advantage, go right ahead.
The thing that you can’t seem to accept is that your life has an owner, its creator. You’re view wants so desperately do believe that you yourself are the God of your own universe. Which works out quite conveniently for you because that means, what you feel is right, is! The idea of being a “pawn” as you say, is so unbelievable to you because you don’t consider that your not in control, God is.

I was never meaning to tell you that you should commit suicide, I was asking, from your perspective, why wouldn’t you? That’s all, you doing that is the last thing I would want.

I realize now that you enjoy life because it can be joyful and whatnot, and that it is interesting to live. The only difference with my life, is that mine is like a really good book that I can’t put down, only I know that the ending has a positive outcome. You may say you like the fact that you don’t know the ending, that’s fine with me but I’ll tell you from experience, a relationship with God sure beats a great book with a crap ending.
There’s no way I can possibly compare who enjoys life more, but if you think that the “tie-down” of God somehow restricts anyone from enjoying life, then your sadly mistaken.

I’m glad you’ve read the Bible 4 times, and know because of this, that it is false. After all, you are the god of your life, so you can rightfully make these assertions, right??  Start thinking
Much to your dismay, evolution is a religion. You yourself claimed above “if” there is a God an “if” God exists. Well sadly, “if” is all evolution has to go on, you literally have to imagine that it happened in order to believe it. It takes huge amounts of faith to believe we came from a chemical soup. It’s impossible! That’s how much faith it takes!
This incredible amount of faith makes evolution a religion. You can believe it, and I admire your amount of faith in doing so, but you can’t believe it without it being a religion, that’s all, plain and simple.

I wasn’t telling you what you believe, I was telling you what you know logically, what everyone knows logically; that there are absolutes. You don’t need to be telepathic to figure that out.

No sorry I don’t believe in absolutes and yes I do believe in right and wrong being relative, clearly you believe different well that’s fine by me for you to have your own beliefs.

You see the advantage I have over you is this, I have been where you are now, I have tried christianity and found it wanting, I doubt you could come to terms with my beliefs, but certainly have come to terms with yours. You are argueing from ignorance, whereas I am at least informed about what I reject.

Believing something does not make it a religion, *sighs* we have also had this argument here before as well.

taken from dictionary.com: Religion: Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

So in both my case and the case of Les believing in evolution I am afraid your use of the word religion is by definition wrong. Also I think you will find most adherents of evolution fully accept it as a theory and don’t go around making it a statement of absolute fact as you seem to do with the bible.

You are dragging out the same tired old arguments, and then wonder why we lose interest in debating them with you.

Truth be told I am quite happy to exercise my free will and believe exactly what I like, even your God allows us that right. I am not fearful of death or judgement, and I have really good reasons for that. Does it make you so insecure to think that someone can have inner peace without christianity?

To conclude I am not trying to defend my beliefs here, as you will note I haven’t really even said what they actually are, suffice to say I am secure with them. I am not even trying to attack yours, if christianity is right for you then that’s wonderful go ahead and enjoy your life with my blessing. But here is the warning for you, enjoy your life and beliefs by all means, but do not go around tearing down other peoples to make you feel more secure in yours.

Les, to start with, I enjoyed reading your new site entry about the full moon or whatever, but who are the other “nut-cases”? Other than myself, who beyond a shadow of a doubt is one because you’ve said so. I’d be interested on reading their “lunacy”.

Just look around. The comments are there in plain sight.

You getting mad at my assuming of things always make me laugh, given the way you feel about hypocrisy.

Who says I’m getting angry? Trust me, you haven’t seen me angry yet. There’s a few comments on this site that were written when I was angry if you care to track them down.

I liked the scaring of the children bit too, why don’t you just scroll up the page, take a quick look at that picture of yours and realize that you don’t need a full moon to scare small children, you could pull that off in broad daylight.

Actually you’d be surprised at how small children tend to react to my “scary” appearance. The picture on this site looks scary? Good, it had it’s intended effect then. That’s what I was going for.

But that aside, I realize your just poking fun at me, and I you, which is not the reason I post my notes.

And what would your reason be, then?

If you feel that personifying what I have to say into that of a raving loony will help your atheist friends realize how stupid I am, then feel free, you’ve already got the advantage arguing against me on this site as it is, (it’s your site, and it’s mainly non-Christians), but if you feel you need more advantage, go right ahead.

I just call ‘em like I see ‘em. Most of the folks who visit this site are probably religious, not atheist. At least out of the ones I’ve gotten to know anything about. Granted, not all of them are Christians, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the atheists in attendance outweigh the believers by any means. Most of the regulars are smart enough to decide for themselves whether to classify you as a loony.

The thing that you can’t seem to accept is that your life has an owner, its creator. You’re view wants so desperately do believe that you yourself are the God of your own universe. Which works out quite conveniently for you because that means, what you feel is right, is! The idea of being a “pawn” as you say, is so unbelievable to you because you don’t consider that your not in control, God is.

I don’t consider God as being in control because I don’t believe God exists. The problem with that whole statement is that it’s based on the assumption that the person you’re speaking to accepts the idea that God exists. I can’t accept that my life has an owner in the form of a creator because I don’t believe the creator exists to be able to own my life. This is an exceedingly simple concept you seem to be having trouble grasping.

I was never meaning to tell you that you should commit suicide, I was asking, from your perspective, why wouldn’t you? That’s all, you doing that is the last thing I would want.

Again I ask you: Why would you assume that someone who doesn’t believe in God would be inclined to commit suicide? You still haven’t answered this question.

I realize now that you enjoy life because it can be joyful and whatnot, and that it is interesting to live. The only difference with my life, is that mine is like a really good book that I can’t put down, only I know that the ending has a positive outcome. You may say you like the fact that you don’t know the ending, that’s fine with me but I’ll tell you from experience, a relationship with God sure beats a great book with a crap ending.
There’s no way I can possibly compare who enjoys life more, but if you think that the “tie-down” of God somehow restricts anyone from enjoying life, then your sadly mistaken.

The thought never crossed my mind. I have a good number of friends who are believers in various faiths and they all seem to be able to enjoy life just fine even with their beliefs in a God or Gods. I’ve never claimed that religious people are somehow less likely to enjoy their lives than non-believers. For some, their faith is part of what makes them happy. Good for them. As for how the book ends, I have no doubts as to how it ends and I have no problems with the ending.

I’m glad you’ve read the Bible 4 times, and know because of this, that it is false. After all, you are the god of your life, so you can rightfully make these assertions, right?? Start thinking

You sure do like to make things as simplistic as possible. Reading the Bible through was the start of my move away from the Church, but there was more to it than that. It’s been spelled out in various threads on this site. You can look it up if you really want to know the history. As for being the “god” of my life, I don’t consider myself a god of any kind. What the hell is that supposed to mean anyway?

Much to your dismay, evolution is a religion. You yourself claimed above “if” there is a God an “if” God exists. Well sadly, “if” is all evolution has to go on, you literally have to imagine that it happened in order to believe it. It takes huge amounts of faith to believe we came from a chemical soup. It’s impossible! That’s how much faith it takes!
This incredible amount of faith makes evolution a religion. You can believe it, and I admire your amount of faith in doing so, but you can’t believe it without it being a religion, that’s all, plain and simple.

Sorry, Evolution is a scientific theory and not a religion. Impossible? Hardly, we’re here. Certainly no more impossible than the idea of some magical old guy just wishing us all into existence. Tell me, does your handle stand for “Dr. Bullshit?” Cause you certainly seem to be quite adept at shoveling it.

I wasn’t telling you what you believe, I was telling you what you know logically, what everyone knows logically; that there are absolutes. You don’t need to be telepathic to figure that out.

Again, you’re making assumptions about what I know.

Much to your dismay, evolution is a religion. You yourself claimed above “if” there is a God an “if” God exists. Well sadly, “if” is all evolution has to go on, you literally have to imagine that it happened in order to believe it. It takes huge amounts of faith to believe we came from a chemical soup. It’s impossible! That’s how much faith it takes!
This incredible amount of faith makes evolution a religion. You can believe it, and I admire your amount of faith in doing so, but you can’t believe it without it being a religion, that’s all, plain and simple.

That statement was a good way to show your ignorance. One does not “believe” in evolution, one either accepts it as a viable scientific theory, or not. This is done through what we call reasoning, there is no need for faith. I realize you want it to be a religion so you, or those of your ilk, can work to get it out of the education system (because it contradicts your religion), but only the willfully ignorant buy that specious argument.

Les, Wow, I just read a multitude of past comments, which I should have done from the start. And I apologize for bringing up such over-discussed issues on this site. I can see how annoying it must have been, and I thank you for treating me with at least a little bit of patience.
A great deal of my questions for you were answered through reading it, I can’t say that I agree to most of it, but you do know your stuff.
Hmm… you seem to really disagree with what Hovind has to say. You seem to have all these ironclad disproofs to him.
So, (not as a threat or challenge) why don’t you go debate him? Honestly, I’ve seen 2 of his debates, and you seem to have a lot more to say than the guys he debated, I mean why not?
He pays for the whole thing, he’ll finance you to come debate him, that’s what he does, what do you have to lose? I think It would be incredibly interesting to see. Plus if you’re as sure as you are about how nuts he is, you’ll finally prove your point. All you have to do is call or email him, I’m sure you’ve been to his web site. I’m sure tons of people from this website would love to see it too. I say go for it!