He’s one of the best leaders I’ve seen in a long time. It would be foolish if the American people don’t vote him into office. McBush is a bad joke.

This was on the BBC news (the remark).  It is clear form his reaction and that of the audience that he didn’t see the original joke, and was just using an old saying, buy his audience caught the double meaning and laughed.  His timing is all wrong for a speaker making that joke in that context.

They also showed a clip of the same old saying being used as part of the lead up to the November vote. John McCain saying it of Hillary’s health care proposals.

He certainly knows what people want to hear.  Things like this put me in a weird place.  I like the guy.  I really do.  He’s an order of magnitude better than Bush/McCain.  Unfortunately, he’s a politician, and he’s a Democrat (and yes, I think the Democrats only look good when compared to the Republicans).  I can’t quite see my way to vote for him because I don’t trust him.  He can make all the promises he wants, but the proof is in the follow-through, and we won’t know if he can do that, or even if he plans to, until we actually give him the job.  Then, of course.. it’s too late.

I think he’ll win without my vote, so we’ll probably find out anyway, but I’m tired of being in a position where I want to vote for one candidate to keep someone worse from taking office.  Every time I mention to an Obama supporter that I can’t quite bring myself to vote for him, I get “Well, he’s better than the alternative.“  I’d like to vote for a candidate I really believe in… you know.. just for a change.  He says mostly the right things.  I want to believe him, but I can’t quite trust him yet.  Maybe I’m too jaded, but I want him to do something that brings me all the way in.  The trouble is, I don’t know what that could be.  If he wins, and if he keeps his promises, and if he’s good enough to do what he sets out to do, then maybe that will be enough.  Even if it turns out that his ideas aren’t quite the right ones.  His honesty will count a lot more than his results.

BTW: Did anyone else notice that he almost segued into the speech at the end of The American President?

I took it as an bit of an insult to Palin too. Do I care? No. Its just more inconsequential crap and double speak from the Mccain campaign and politicians in general.

Swordsbane, I don’t like politicians either, but in many ways Obama is different. I wish you all lived in IL to see what’s he has done, but Google him and you should see plenty of reasons to vote for him. Or watch his latest speeches, the big ones, going back to the DNC 04 speech. His speeches are pretty damn inspiring.

As much as I like to point out to people all the time how we are a republic and how voting is not one of our rights, thus the reason I choose not to do it… Hearing Obama’s recent speeches seriously makes me want to go against all I stand for and vote for him.

Oh wait I live in Texas.. nvm

Gotta give credit for speaking the truth!  It would be very interesting to see if McCain’s campaign ever discusses issues.

It appears that as gracious and gentlemanly as he usually is, Barack Obama has finally got angry and it shows. But I don’t think he’s going to show the contempt, denigration and derision toward the McCain/Palin duo as they are showing toward him while they ignore Biden altogether, probably because Biden’s white, as I am. Obama will retaliate by sticking with the issues, ignoring the diversion that the crackpot Palin was chosen to be so we wouldn’t notice McCain ain’t no maverick no more, but instead a Bush replicant who will carry on Bush disastrous policies. Obama will insist on the issues. No matter how they try to malign his wife, make fun of his experience and co-opt his original demands for change, he will stick by the issues and the more he does the more they will try to avoid them. It will then be obvious who should be the next president, a man who feels one with us, a man who wants us together to solve the problems we all face. He went to Columbia magna cum laude, went to Harvard Law School, became a civil rights attorney, then a state senator and now a U.S. senator, all positions higher than I could ever reach, but he is the only politician, except the Kennedys, who I have ever believed felt one with me and with all Americans, except, perhaps, the ultra-rich, among whom his opponent numbers. This country will become a feudal tyranny if it’s not stopped now, and Obama and Biden are the ones who can do that, the only ones.

He is a good public speaker, thats the extent of his skills.

That’s still a leg up over McCain and Bush.

Lipstick on a pig is a well worn phrase especially in politics. To me, to make a fuss about it because the veep candidate is a woman now is the real sexism. Expecting people to treat the candidate differently because of her gender is truely sexist. This whole “media bullying” smokescreen is also crap. Does everyone have to treat her differently BECAUSE she’s a woman? I’d rather stand up to that kind of attack (if it was one) than condescending coverage of what I chose to wear that day or my choice of hairstyle.

Swordsbane- I hear you.  I, too, would like to vote for someone I really like, or perhaps not vote as a protest; but the way I look at it, it’s more important for America, and the rest of the world, to get the lesser of two evils into office, than to register my protest with people who don’t give a shit about it.  My dream system, which doesn’t stand a chance in hell of being instituted, would include the abolishment of the Electoral College and the possibility to vote twice: once for your choice, and once for the lesser of two evils.  It would be easy enough to do, and would increase the amount of real democracy by maybe 15%.

That said, Obama’s speech was rather refreshing.  Unfortunately, the Republicans are even better spinmeisters than the Democrats, and better at gerrymandering- the Electoral College is the mother of all gerrymanders- and I’m worried.

zilch: I don’t need the next Messiah.  I’ll settle for a step in the right direction.  Obama might be that step, but really, our standards should be higher.  Someone like McCain shouldn’t even make it past the nomination, but that’s his party’s fault.  Obama, on the other hand, should really be easily beat by a candidate with better policies and more experience.  We should be able to do at least as good as Obama in every election.  For all he’s got going for him. he should be considered the low side of acceptable, not the high side of extraordinary.

Webs: I’ve heard pretty much all his speeches since 9/11 when I started looking for congresscritters that didn’t vote for the war.  His speeches are almost perfect.  Like I said, he knows what people want to hear.

  His voting record is almost as impressive, not for how he votes on the issues (I happen to disagree with him on a few), but because it is remarkably consistent for a politician.  That has my attention more than anything else.  If he’s not going to be consistent, then it wouldn’t matter what he said (which is why I don’t listen to McCain speeches).  There are some opinions of his I don’t like, but I’m almost willing to overlook those to get some of the more important problems solved…. almost.

  The bottom line is: He has my admiration (which is saying a lot considering I haven’t admired any politician since JFK) and I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being, but that’s not good enough to get my vote.  He has to do something more impressive than anything he’s done so far to reach that level.  Call it a gesture of good faith.  If he needs my vote to beat McVain, then he’s not the right man for the job, and if he proves himself in his first term, he’ll not only get my vote for the second, but I’ll campaign for him, and I’ve never even considered doing that before.  It would be a small price to pay for restoring at least some of my faith, not only in the system, but in people in general.  I wish him luck.  He’ll probably win the election, but that’s the easy part.

It is all about the issues for me. I don’t care if Silly Sarah is a pig or a dog ..or a beauty queen. She is not offering an end to the war nor does she care about universal health care. So she needs to get her ass back to the Great White North before the first snow.

swordsbane- I agree, but I will still vote for Obama, because not voting doesn’t do jack shit.  On the other hand, since I’m voting (by absentee ballot) in California, which will almost certainly go Obama anyway, my vote doesn’t mean jack shit in any case, thanks to our horse-and-buggy Electoral College shit.  But what can you do?

She is not offering an end to the war nor does she care about universal health care.

But she does want schools to ‘Teach the Controversy’!

McCain is the Maverick- he’s going to Change the Whitehouse. Love to see the debate where Obama simply asks “Which of President Bush’s major initiatives since 2001 do you believe were wrong.“ while making it clear he has Oven Chip’s voting record in front of him. All I hear from McPalin is “Change” with no actual specifics.

The people here who are saying that you do not trust Obama and that you truly cannot believe in him are complete pussies.. You have TWO choices… ONE=BUSH pt.2 and then TWO=DIFFERENT GUY… Obama seems that he’s more up to the task of president then the geezer and the puritan witch hunter.

And if he’s lying?  Better it be him in office than somebody who looks like they’re about to die of old age.. And you feel Sarah Palin will make a good leader?  She’ll mandate that you goto church or your children will be taken away.

Josh: After decades of crap coming from both parties, talk is cheap and trust is hard to come by, especially from the two major parties.  It won’t be consistently better until people begin to realize that our choices are not limited to either Democrats or Republicans.

Maybe I’m just being devil’s advocate.  As I said, I am really hoping Obama is the one, but every 4 years, campaigns are littered with promises not kept after inauguration.  Obama SEEMS different, but the only way we’ll know for sure is when he’s actually DOING the job.  When that time comes, I will be more than happy to hear all the “I told you so”‘s from you or anyone else.  Just don’t tell me it’s OBVIOUS that Obama is going to be a good president, because it’s not.  The only thing that is obvious is that he’s better than McCain, but then… so is the dog crap in my backyard, but I’m not going to elect dog crap to be president.  If you can’t explain why Obama is a good choice without comparing him to McCain, then it really doesn’t mean anything, at least not to me.

Swordsbane:

Vote for this guy than.

If that was a thinly veiled attempt to tell me I’m old and out of touch instead of agreeing with me because I’m incredibly wise, it was pretty clever.

Hey Les- long-time reader, first-time poster.

I wrote to Les a long time ago re: my fall from faith and since then I’m just more open-minded… universal healthcare, no death penalty, gay rights/women rights… the usual..

I just feel like Obama has the smarts and charm to possibly make some of these things happen, or at least get us closer than ever before. Plus I think it’d go a long way toward healing our racial wounds (not finally, but would help). I’ve got a daughter who will be going off to college soon and I’m more than a little concerned for her and my boys’ futures.  I’m retired military, so my family has had great insurance since before my kids were born.

Oh yeah, that don’t-ask-don’t-tell is crap and needs to go—treat all equal.

McCain—I think he’s actually got character (still doesn’t value my issues & wouldn’t vote for him) but sold out to the rightwing nutjobs when picking Palin. Wow what a whacko.

I had a great co-worker in the military one time who called the GOP the “let them eat cake” party.. Man did he ever nail it. “Let the market take care of it”—yeah, great job with healthcare…

Unfortunately, here in Oklahoma he’s polling very low… too many bible heads and rednecks.

ExEx- what you said.  Good to hear from you, and the best of luck for your kids.

You are not the only disgruntled ex-GOP: my uncle, lifetime conservative, WWII veteran, and lifetime NRA member, finally decided to vote Democratic last election because, in his words, “if brains were dynamite, Bush wouldn’t be able to blow his nose”.  The GOP has certainly gone downhill since Eisenhower.

swordsbane- your decision to not vote for Obama reminds me of a political cartoon I saw here in Austria years ago, during campaign season.  The then-heads of the Socialist and Folk parties (the two biggest parties here, more or less mappable onto the Democrats and Republicans, but both shifted a couple of notches to the left) were sitting in race cars, waiting for the starting gun.  Their cars were a bit dilapidated, but clearly functional.  Meanwhile, three heads of the Green party were engaged in a shouting match about which vehicle they would enter in the race: a bicycle, a tricycle, or a pogo stick.

This is a disadvantage that more leftward-leaning parties have all around the world: their positions are, in general, more nuanced and less simplistic than those of the right.  In a word, they are more social and less religious, and indeed, the more religious one is, the more likely that one is politically conservative.  Of course there are many exceptions to these trends, but the trends are there.

This means that liberals are more subject to soul-searching, indecision, and self-doubt about their policies than conservatives, in general.  As a liberal, and a firm believer that the problems of society are indeed complex and admit of no easy answer, this seems right and just to me.  The problem is, that this means that the left is more likely than the right to be splintered and thus ineffective, and it also means that more people on the left will either not vote on grounds of idealism, or will throw away their vote on candidates who don’t have a rat’s asses chance of being elected (such as Ralph Nadar, who scuppered Gore’s presidency).

While I am also idealistic, to me what actually happens is more important than expressing my disgust with the system.  So I will vote for Obama this coming election.

It’s not about me expressing my disgust with the system.  I do plenty of that without using my vote for it.  It’s a matter of voting my conscience.  Vote for Obama because you WANT Obama in office.  End of story

A) Gore scuppered Gore’s presidency, not Nader.

B) You’re not throwing away your vote if you vote for the person you want in office rather than the person you think has a chance to win, You’re throwing away your vote when you vote for one candidate not because you like the candidate, but because you don’t like “the other guy”  The system only works when everyone votes their conscience.

My decision not to vote for Obama is not in protest of anything.  It’s simple: I don’t trust him.  I don’t trust politicians and I don’t trust Democrats (I don’t trust Republicans either) and he’s both.  When I vote I consider who I think would make a good president.  If none of the candidates would make good presidents, then I’ll write in the person I think will.  If I can’t write in a candidate of my choice, then there is no point in voting.  If that makes me an idealist, then I’m proud to be one.  If that means my candidates will never make it into office, so be it.  It is much better than knowing I voted for a guy who cheated on his wife in the White House, or another who lied to congress in order to start a war.  I’m not going to argue who’s scandal is worse.  It is bad enough that they seem to all manage to have at least one.

The fact that Obama is even making me think about voting for a Democrat is pretty impressive, but I’m not there yet.  My standards are pretty high.  It’s up to Obama to meet them.  That’s why he’s campaigning in the first place.  If all I needed was for him to not be McCain, then he’d have my vote without even having to open his mouth.  Unfortunately, I require a little more.

swordsbane- I understand your frustration with politics and politicians.  As elwed has said, I wouldn’t trust any politician as far as I could throw him- or her.  But I suppose I do look at things practically, and as much as I would prefer voting for someone who, for instance, would do something substantial about the environment, I am convinced that Obama is by far the better choice, in terms of what the world will suffer if McCain/Palin wins.

While I might feel a little purer of heart for not voting, or for voting Green, the world chugs on: real damage is being done, real people killed, real trees chopped down, real lives destroyed; and all these things would almost certainly be worse under the Republicans.

Thus, not voting is a luxury that I cannot in good conscience grant myself.  If there were any indication that not voting, or voting for a no-name, would help change the system, then I would consider doing it.  But I don’t see any sign of that:  all you earn by not voting is the laughter of the Republicans.  And the real world, here and now, and the future of my children, is too important to sacrifice for an idealistic principle.

Not voting is exactly what the Republicans are hoping you’ll do. It only benefits them in the end which is why they’re working so hard to suppress the vote wherever they can.