I think I remember seeing that sig.

If you didn’t see it here, you should be ashamed of yourself

Yeah, well all you fancy-schmancy college-edumacated fuckers are totally losing me with all your high-falutin’ “-ologies,” “-osphies,” “-isms” and nitpicking about “formal logic.”

As one of those people who was too poor to go to college, I was too busy working to spend my late teens and early 20s dissecting the works of the philosophers throughout history.  Rather a disadvantage in trying to have a coherent conversation with someone like Theo (who is apparently at liberty to spend a fair amount of time inside his head, in deep thought about what “should” be).

On the other hand, being probably twice his age and having spent all of that time engaged in the process of living in the “material” world, with all its experiences, observations and interactions with real people, perhaps the problem is that Theo is as unfamiliar with the sort of realistic mindset that results from simply living through several decades as I am with the sort of mental gymnastics it appears to require to study philosophy.

And if all that studying results in a person arguing that reality isn’t really real, I think I’m better off with my high school diploma and the street smarts enough to know that there are people who are too mentally ill to make rational decisions, and that they need to be treated by people who will be held accountable if their counsel causes a sick person to get worse.

Yeah, well all you fancy-schmancy college-edumacated fuckers are totally losing me with all your high-falutin’ “-ologies,�? “-osphies,�? “-isms�? and nitpicking about “formal logic.�?

No offense intended. Try this:

There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with asking ‘why?’. I’d even go so far and say that the lack of this curiosity and sense of wonder is indicative of not being quite right in the head. However, philosophy is the business of asking questions, not that of giving answers. Mental masturbation comes into play when philosophers ask questions merely for the sake of asking more questions and making mountains out of mole hills.

Before the philosophers get too upset with me, it’s not that philosophy is entirely without merit. There are interesting and amusing thought experiments to be had and it is fun to try to see how far you can run with certain philosophical points of view. Scepticism, say. Take it too far and you argue yourself into an existential crisis.

One should tread extremely carefully when taking the step from philosophy understood as thought-provoking, yet light reading to philosophy, the guide to life.

OB, graduating from the school of hard knocks doesn’t disqualify anybody from thinking deep thoughts. It’s a problem of accessibility rather than capability. On the other hand, those living a sheltered life in a cloud castle are at a severe disadvantage when the world refuses to behave like their model of it leads them to believe.

OB:

I’m sure that you recognize that Theo’s use of his experience with depression just doesn’t match up when making comparisons to a situation in which an individual is experiencing auditory hallucinations-hearing voices. It’s comparing apples and oranges, and you rightly cut through his bullshit when you say this:

And if all that studying results in a person arguing that reality isn’t really real, I think I’m better off with my high school diploma and the street smarts enough to know that there are people who are too mentally ill to make rational decisions, and that they need to be treated by people who will be held accountable if their counsel causes a sick person to get worse.

Amen, I say to thee.

That was probably the best call of bullshit in this entire thread.

Theo:

Don’t mistake distain for confusion.  My opinion of you has changed markedly as a result of this thread.

I’ve had experience with mental illness.  I have been clinically depressed, I have had many friends who were/are clinically depressed and I have a few friends who are bipolar.  Nonetheless, I and a few of my friends have beaten their disorders by their own will and maybe a little prayer.  I didn’t need to have regular checkups with a shrink or medicine to beat my depression and I’ve had friends who have beaten their depression similarly.

As someone who has had a lot of first hand experience with people who are severely chronically depressed (my wife) and bipolar (a former girlfriend) all I have to say is: If you were able to overcome it on your own then it probably wasn’t that serious of a problem to begin with. Bipolar disorder in particular is not something you can just decide not to suffer from anymore.

We all suffer bouts of depression on occasion and sometimes they can be lengthy enough to disrupt our lives, but to claim that all folks who suffer from depression or mental illness just need to decide to buck up and get their shit together shows a remarkable misunderstanding of the problem and how severe it is for some people. My experiences in dealing with it on a daily basis bear this fact out.

Theo sounds exactly like one of those college or just-post-college students who has attended an est/Lifespring/Forum kind of course.  You know, the kind where they come back as a complete asshole and say, “I didn’t MAKE you angry.  You CHOSE to react to my kicking you in the shin by becoming angry.”

Of course, the emotional parts of the brain are still developing at that age, and they love to try on new lifestyles and philosophies, and REALLY get into them, to the point where they confuse them with reality.

It’s hilarious how he’s decided that he knows much more than all the millions and millions of doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, and people who have studied or lived with mental illness, in all its guises, for centuries. 

In fact ... say ... could he be L. Ron Hubbard reincarnated?  Yikes!

Is SCIENTOLOGY the “theocracy” he wants to see here in the US??

Stay tuned, folks.  I think he’s about to get much weirder.

Elwed:

No offense intended.

None taken. I was just being snarky and a little dramatic.

OB, graduating from the school of hard knocks doesn’t disqualify anybody from thinking deep thoughts. It’s a problem of accessibility rather than capability. On the other hand, those living a sheltered life in a cloud castle are at a severe disadvantage when the world refuses to behave like their model of it leads them to believe.

Exactly… and a much more eloquent way of stating my point.  Thanks

Watching others discuss various philosophies is probably part of the reason I’ve never gone out of my way to add the writings of philosophers to my library, for fear that reading them might make my head explode.

Consi:

I’m sure that you recognize that Theo’s use of his experience with depression just doesn’t match up when making comparisons to a situation in which an individual is experiencing auditory hallucinations-hearing voices. It’s comparing apples and oranges, and you rightly cut through his bullshit when you say this:

And if all that studying results in a person arguing that reality isn’t really real, I think I’m better off with my high school diploma and the street smarts enough to know that there are people who are too mentally ill to make rational decisions, and that they need to be treated by people who will be held accountable if their counsel causes a sick person to get worse.

Amen, I say to thee.

That was probably the best call of bullshit in this entire thread.

Thanks.  And yes, there’s a world of difference between someone who’s got the blues (or is even clinically depressed) and someone who believes God is telling her to kill her children.

Les:

As someone who has had a lot of first hand experience with people who are severely chronically depressed (my wife) and bipolar (a former girlfriend) all I have to say is: If you were able to overcome it on your own then it probably wasn’t that serious of a problem to begin with. Bipolar disorder in particular is not something you can just decide not to suffer from anymore.

That’s been my experience as well, and both disorders (among others) run in my family.  There’s a huge difference between having a few days of wallowing in self-pity thinking, “I hate my life,” and a serious bout of depression where you can’t even motivate yourself get out of bed or take a shower, much less work, take care of your family or any of the other myriad responsibilities of day-to-day living.  The first scenario generally works itself out quickly, whereas the second can literally destroy your life if left untreated.

GeekMom:

Theo sounds exactly like one of those college or just-post-college students who has attended an est/Lifespring/Forum kind of course.  You know, the kind where they come back as a complete asshole and say, “I didn’t MAKE you angry.  You CHOSE to react to my kicking you in the shin by becoming angry.�?

Of course, the emotional parts of the brain are still developing at that age, and they love to try on new lifestyles and philosophies, and REALLY get into them, to the point where they confuse them with reality.

It’s hilarious how he’s decided that he knows much more than all the millions and millions of doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, and people who have studied or lived with mental illness, in all its guises, for centuries.

Like Elwed’s comment, yours is also a clearer statement of my rant.

I suppose I could’ve made it shorter, but I thought it might be rude to write, “Theo, you’re a fucking KID, what the hell do YOU know?  Come back in 20 years when you’ve had time to live through some of the harsh realities of adulthood.”

I suppose I could’ve made it shorter, but I thought it might be rude to write, “Theo, you’re a fucking KID, what the hell do YOU know?  Come back in 20 years when you’ve had time to live through some of the harsh realities of adulthood.�?

Gee, I dunno, OB… that pretty much sums up what I was thinking.

Glad to hear it DOF… I was starting to wonder if my hostile attitude might indicate a need for increasing my meds

DOF said…

I didn’t figure it was between the dog and my son to decide what happened.  Nor did I have any set limit to the depth of involvement there - the dog wasn’t going to bite my son.  Period.

... and it irks me that it went without response.

Personally I care very little about the original entry and the story therein, so I just wanted to address this comment to Theocrat, who appears to be ranting and pontificating in an attempt to make himself appear well-versed regarding a concept that he clearly knows next to nothing about: mental illness runs in my family. I myself have suffered from bouts of unipolar depression, and a cousin of mine seems to be saddled with bipolar disorder. In my opinion, anyone who seriously denies the concept of mental illness or believes that those afflicted have the power to simply “get over it” is either a nutcase, appallingly ignorant, or a combination of the two.

Sadie, if he’s a nutcase, then by his own rules he ought to be able just to “snap out of it.” Right?

Waiting for the snap ...

OB: Watching others discuss various philosophies is probably part of the reason I’ve never gone out of my way to add the writings of philosophers to my library, for fear that reading them might make my head explode.

Same for me.  I feel that there are so many different philosophies, life would pass me by while I was trying to make heads or tails of them.  Not to mention I don’t go in for conforming myself to some philosophy that I don’t fully agree with.

Where’s Nunyabiz when you really need him? 

Apparently Theo has either thrown in the towel, or is thinking on a (enter sarcasm here) no doubt, amazing rebuttal guaranteed to blow all of our minds.

Pity, and I was just starting to have fun.