Well said Brock.

Its proselytizing Christians telling me I’m a heathen going straight to hell for not believing in some fairytale that ALL the empirical evidence CLEARLY shows to be nothing but pure mythology is EXACTLY why I throw it right back in your face they way I do.

I’m sick and tired of it.

Its proselytizing Christians that have been the root cause for about 90% of all Wars worldwide for 2000 years.

Its proselytizing Christians that are desperately trying to dumb down the American school system (if that’s even possible to do)by denying the TEACHING of evolution in favor of the PREACHING of Creation. If you don’t think religion has a severely detrimental effect on education then once again check the facts, what area of the country clearly is lagging behind the rest in education? Why could it be “The Bible Belt”? Nah. Check the facts again to see whom is most likely to believe in mythology over logic and reason, in general the lower your education, the lower your IQ, the greater the odds that you wont have the mental capacity to defend yourself from the ever present onslaught of religious BULLSHIT human beings are FORCED to endure on a daily basis from every fucking direction you turn.

Faith is personal, faith is a deep thing people take very seriously. As much as other people get pissed for us telling them they need to be “saved”…how do you think it makes us feel to day in and day out be told how wrong and stupid we are?

Reality is personal, Reality is a very deep thing those of us that use logic & reasoning and solid empirical FACTS to live by take very seriously.
Unless I’m going down for the 3rd time in deep water then I certainly don’t need to be “saved” from anything except “Proselytizing Christians”. ROTFL

Did you ever think for a second the reason your being told how wrong & stupid you are is well, because you are?
I mean exactly when does that suffocating mountain of solid, tangible, empirical, observable, Falsifiable, verifiable, FACTS start to take some of the breath away from that mythology of which the facts overwhelmingly show to be nothing but a fairytale, you keep trying to shove down everyone’s throat in an effort to bolster your so called “truth”.

What is happening in REALITY, which Christians are completely oblivious to, is YOU’RE the ones that need to be “saved”, as your desperately thrashing and kicking in the ocean of life someone throws you the lifesaver of truth and you refuse to take it, instead you continue to take everyone around down with you, drowning in a sea of ignorance.

Difference between you & me though is that my truth, well its REAL not imagined.
My truth is based entirely on FACTS from current scientific data where ALL the various fields of research collaborate one another, nothing else.
Your so called “truth” is based entirely on nothing but a “belief” with ZERO empirical evidence to support it.
You believe what you do solely by “Faith” in ancient mythology and it has infected your brain like a virus.
Its the mother of all learning disorders and Christians are infecting young and malleable minds, its nothing short of a Pandemic and the only known cure is a huge dose of reality that must be *self* administered with a big spoonful of reason & shot in the ass of logic.

This must be done while most authority figures Parents/Government/Teachers,etc. the very people they trust are infected with this mind virus and feverishly luring them into the fold.

Fortunately religion is losing ground even though it has complete carte blanche to do damn near anything it chooses to whomever they please, can you just imagine IF Atheist were even remotely like Christians? LOL If we were able to teach reality in 1000s of ‘Reality Sanctuaries” worldwide. If we had several nationally broadcast TV shows to “Spread our word” which is nothing but pure logic and reason based entirely on facts. That will never happen because religious zealots would without any doubt whatsoever immediately burn those sanctuaries or studios to the ground within days, meanwhile freaks of nature like Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell can say just about anything they want with virtual impunity.
Without ANY advertising whatsoever, other than waking up and opening your eyes, amazingly reality is slowly but surely winning the battle over ancient cultural mythology, that’s because the human animal IS seeking truth and with all the advances in science its becoming increasingly obvious that religion is NOT it.

I’m with nunyabiz - any fuck that could continue to cling to this ancient mythology is either an idiot or just plain lazy when it comes to the application of rational thinking!

Your right, turnabout is fair play. I agree totally. However, cant the same be said about atheists such as nunyabiz over here who are just as ardently trying to disprove christianity? He may not have written the presented articles but he is doing his best to bring it to the people. Isnt he doing the exact same thing we do? He is trying to spread “His” truth…and we are trying to spread ours.

Indeed. In fact, that was kind of my point. Nunya gets a fair amount of grief around here for his actions from both believers and nonbelievers, hell he’s managed to get David to ignore him which is pretty incredible in its own right, yet he seems perfectly willing to put up with that grief to get his point across. You’ll note I haven’t made any pleas to the public at large to show more tolerance for Nunya because I may feel his intentions are good even if his methods are offensive or insulting to believers. If that’s the approach he’s going to take then he’s going to have to deal with the grief that approach will bring him. I feel the same way about believers who come here and act in a similar manner. As a matter of point, my whole entry about David being an asshole is reflective of my stance on this issue. David has acted like a complete ass since he’s been here and my calling him on it is part of the grief his approach is bringing to him. If he doesn’t like it he has the same recourse that Nunya has available to him, which is to seek out friendlier pastures to voice their opinions. I’m not about to shield either one of them from the grief they bring upon themselves.

By the same token being the owner of this website brings with it a certain amount of grief from folks who don’t like what I have to say regardless of how good my intentions may or may not be in saying them. It comes with the territory and I either accept that and continue on my merry way or I don’t and I take the website down. This is all part of the risk of publicly voicing your opinions and bloggers who learn this the hard way and can’t handle it are the ones you see who either turn off commenting on their blogs or shut their sites down because they’re sick of being chastised by people with opposing opinions. If you’re going to voice your version of the truth you’d better be prepared for people who don’t agree with you to voice theirs. Good intentions don’t count for much if the opposition doesn’t agree on your definition of what good is.

Lets just throw aside all the evolution, proof, fact, science crap for a minute and look at the basic principle of what we are both doing. I try every day not to prove god exists, but rather help guide people and freinds to their own conclusions on the existance of god. The individual has to ask for salvation, I cant do it for them.

Atheists such as nunyabiz are doing their best to Dis-prove the existence of god. Basically, we are both doing the same thing…cant the rules apply to both?

I suppose this begs the question of what rules you feel aren’t being applied to both. I just illustrated above that, as far as the confines of this website are concerned, the rules are being applied to both. I haven’t ever told someone they couldn’t voice their opinion here on my site. At the most I’ve spoken up when things have gotten particularly nasty or when I felt someone was being particularly unfair. The only comments I delete as a matter of Standard Operational Procedure are 1) duplicates and comments about deleting duplicates, 2) SPAM comments, 3) comments that are obviously attempts at “trolling” 4) comments that have nothing to do with the thread in question and/or don’t add anything to the discussion taking place such as “GEORGE BUSH SUCKS BIG DICK!!!” Beyond that I don’t censor the opinions posted in the comments on SEB. The only real rule I expect folks to deal with is “if you can’t stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen” and that’s more of an unwritten rule than anything else. My daughter has expressed a desire to get involved in some of the discussions and I warned her of the same rule.

“Perhaps your mistake is in telling us we’re wrong.”

Really? I could say the same…your right, we cant know, for ceartin any more than you do what happens after death.

Faith is personal, faith is a deep thing people take very seriously. As much as other people get pissed for us telling them they need to be “saved”…how do you think it makes us feel to day in and day out be told how wrong and stupid we are?

Probably the same way it makes us feel. Now consider how we feel when your side tries to get your beliefs enshrined in law or promoted by the government in the form of things such as a Ten Commandments monument in a court room or on a school wall. Such is the nature of disagreement over deeply personal issues. Either you have the courage of your convictions and try to not let the opposing criticisms bother you or you don’t and should spend some time reviewing why you’re insecure about it. The simple truth about being human is that we’re going to disagree over different issues and the more personal those issues happen to be the more personally folks are going to take criticism of those issues. The best way to avoid being told you’re stupid and foolish is to not speak up and give people reason to say you’re being stupid and foolish. Or at least to only speak up in places where you’re likely to be surrounded with people of the same mindset who would tend to agree with you.

In short, if you don’t want to hear that we think you’re being stupid and foolish then why come to a site full of people who are likely to consider you stupid and foolish and then post your opinions? You’d probably find your opinions more warmly welcomed at places that are the anti-thesis of what SEB is such as The Trommeter Times, a site that has directly attacked this site’s viewpoints in the past.

Now, the most basic way to solve this problem would be to have a “well stop if you stop” attitude. Now, we all know that is not going to happen. So what then? Am I not allowed to tell people about the bible and christ? But you are in every right to disprove it?

I’d honestly like you to point to a single thing I’ve ever written that would imply I hold that viewpoint.

By all means, try to convince people of what you believe to be the truth of the Bible and Christ if you feel you have a compelling argument to offer. You’re even welcome to try and make your case here in the comments on SEB. Just don’t get pissed if you take some heat for it.

In fact, I encourage you to invest the time and money to start your own weblog specifically so you can write entries on what you believe the great truths are to anyone who cares to read them. Chances are you’d find it much easier to attract a sympathetic audience than I did as you have a much more popular message to share. You have as much right to launch and maintain such a website as I do and I think it’s a mistake for anyone who feels they have something to share to avoid making use of one of the few forms of mass-publishing the common man is likely to ever have access to.

Les, your right. None of us know for sure…but what is simple misplaced faith to you is truth to us. And even though it seems like belifes to you, its answers to us. I know it might be hard for some atheists to understand…or maybe it isnt, I dont know.

It’s not hard to understand at all. Most atheists hold the view that truth, like morality, is a relative thing. The idea that truth and morality are absolutes is something believers tend to insist on and thus it tends to be believers who have a hard time understanding how atheists can consider their answers to be “the truth” when those answers conflict with the believer’s truths. I can accept the idea that you feel your answers are the right ones without agreeing with the answers themselves in much the same way that I can accept the possibility that Gods could exist without agreeing that they actually do and I think most atheists are similar in this regard. I would say that any work in understanding the other person’s position is probably needed more on the part of many groups of believers than on non-believers.

What I don’t understand is what brought you to offer this plea in the first place. The implication I’ve gotten from all of this is that you feel I am somehow trying to deny believer’s their right to share the truth as they see it or that I think only atheists should be allowed to argue their positions on deeply personal subjects. Last I checked you won’t find me hanging out on Christian blogs or in Christian message boards trying to convert the regulars therein of how stupid and foolish they’re being and to give up the fantasy they’re clinging to. Do some atheists do this? Of course, but then look at all the believers we have here who do the same thing in reverse. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing for such things to happen, but I’m not sure why I should be accused of somehow suggesting believers shouldn’t have a voice when I don’t engage in such activities myself. In the past I’ve left one comment of any kind on the aforementioned Christian blog and it was a response to what I felt was a misrepresentation of the views of one of the Founding Fathers and my comment was deleted by the site’s owner supposedly on the basis that I had written something similar in an entry here on SEB. I could make the argument that I was censored by a believer, but it’s his blog and as such within his right to remove the comment if he doesn’t want it there.

And therein lies the rub: This is my personal blog which I set up so I could share my opinions and viewpoints with anyone who thinks they might be interested in reading them. If I hold the opinion that someone is being stupid and foolish then by the very fact that I’m paying for and maintaining a website that’s devoted to my opinions I feel I have the right to say on my blog that that person is being stupid and foolish. Or, in David’s case, an ass. The fact that anyone finds anything I write to be worth taking the time to read is, quite honestly, a pleasant surprise and the fact that there are people who agree with me on many of the views I hold is just icing on the cake. It’s my site and my opinions and I reserve the right to say whatever the hell I feel like saying. I’ve only been asked to be a guest blogger on other people’s sites on a couple of occasions and when I have been I’ve made a point not to write entries that might be considered offensive to the blog owner’s audience because it wasn’t my site. Their house, their rules. My house, my rules.

I could understand your plea better if I were forcing you or anyone else to read SEB in some way, but I’m not. You and everyone else who participates on SEB came here of your own free will and decided to read and consider what I and others have to say. You don’t have to agree with it nor do you have to read it and there are thousands of other blogs out there that are probably more in line with the views you hold if all you want to do is to read entries from people who agree with you already. To try and tell me I’m wrong for saying what I want to say on my own blog, however, strikes me as the very censorship you seem to be implying I am attempting against others. I welcome the participation of anyone who wants to participate and I don’t impose a lot of rules on what I allow in my comments and that is, in my mind, more fair than a lot of the opposition. You may take heat for speaking your mind here, you may even be insulted and offended, but you’ll never be denied the opportunity to share your views. That’s a principle I not only consider very important, but one I’m very proud to say I’ve stuck to with SEB. We’ve said before that the title of the blog should be a warning to the easily offended that this isn’t a place were you’re likely to find nothing but moonbeams and sweet dreams as the primary form of discourse.

What If im right? Hypothetically, If Christianity were true…dosent that mean you spent your whole life leading people into Hell? Yet, on the other hand…what if your right? And I wasted my life on a fictional parent figure?

If Christianity were to turn out to be true then, yes, I could be accused of leading people into Hell and if I thought for a moment there was even a remote chance of Christianity being true I’d probably not be advocating against it so much. By the same logic have you considered the idea that we could both be wrong and the religion of choice could turn out to be one of the other candidates which would mean you’d be guilty of the same crime I would if that God doesn’t look kindly on people worshipping the wrong religion? There’s easily as much of a chance that you’re leading people astray as I am, but have you considered that possibility?

Who knows?!

The bottom line is, as much as you have the right to disprove and sorta Anti-Evangelize to the world, we have the right to Evangelize…so does every religion. I restate…god gave man a choice.

And I’ve never said otherwise. Just the same this doesn’t mean you should be immune from the criticisms of others for exercising your right any more than I should be immune from criticism for exercising my right to free speech.

Figures. In my long-windedness I missed the fact that several people had responded to this in the time it took me to type up my response.

I need to take lessons in how to be brief and concise from Elwed.

Hello to all you SEB regulars! I’ve been hanging around reading comments here since last summer. My son will hear me laughing out loud and say,"Mom must be on SEB again!”

The reason that I’m finally jumping in here is that while I agree with most of nunyabiz’ comments, I think his attitude could be a little less like the religious zealots he abhors.

Free-thinking begins at home. I have two sons, aged 11 and 18. I kept them from religious instruction until the were 10. (This age could be different for other children, but mine showed evidence of decent critical thinking by then.) My older son decided not to participate and my younger son goes to a lutheran church once in a while with his father.

My older son writes editorials for his high school newspaper, mainly anti-right wing political articles and pieces promoting the separation of church and state. (He refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in its current form at school.)

My point is this - It is almost impossible to get a firm, bible-believing christian to come to our point of view, even though I have gotten a lot of enjoyment in my debates with them over the years. (Ask me sometime about the JW who ran screaming, arms waving up in the air, after a 30-minute discussion with me.)

Peer pressure with youths is often under-rated when it comes to philisophical issues. My son’s articles, while causing tension and anger among some students, created openings for rational discussions with many others. Yes, I realize that this works the other way as well, but I believe that the atheist should not stoop to the tactics employed by many religious organizations. It is important that we realize that for the most part,the law is actually on our side regarding keeping creationism and ID out of public schools. The important thing is to know what your local and state school boards are up to and remind them calmly and rationally that when they cross that line toward teaching ID or creationism, that the Supreme Court already has rulings in place that you will refer to if it becomes necessary for you to sue them!

BTW, I’ve been waiting for someone to say something about David’s comments from another thread. He gives nunyabiz shit for incorrect grammar and spelling and then he actually misspells ABEL (he spells it ABLE) throughout an entire paragraph! I thought he was SOOO familiar with the bible??!!

Vicki, why did you wait so long to contribute your wisdom here??

Sometimes I do think that the sole reason we don’t have even more religious wars in the world is precisely because atheists won’t stoop to the same tactics as the Christian right.  Can you imagine what would happen if we did the same amount of public picketing, boycotting, propaganda television, “outreach” in the schools, and going door to door handing out atheist leaflets?

GM, what would happen is that atheism would then be “just another religion” and we would lose the distinction of appearing rational! I don’t think we want to go there, do we!

The question is, what do monotheistic religions see as the greater threat to them:  an alternative religion or the refusal to believe any of them at all?  (I know that most fundamentalists try to make the latter appear as the former, because they just can’t conceive of someone NOT believing in the supernatural.)

My GUESS is that alternative religions pose the greater threat in their eyes, maybe because they’re more afraid of losing their own members to them than to complete unbelief.  The ugliest wars seem to me to be between religions, not religions against atheists.  (Hell, even a schism within a religion is enough to ignite persecution.)

Yeah, this goes back to the thread that discusses the survey where people said that they would vote for someone of ANY religion over an atheist. I guess that shows how much people appreciate rational thinking! ...Or that they think WE’RE the crazy ones…

Les,

I guess I feel the need to apoligize again.  In my hastiness to respond with my thoughts, they might have come off as accusitory and harsh in nature.  In no way did I intend to offend you or provoke a negative response.  even if it might have seemed that way…

I apoligize for my comments if they came off as accusitory or harsh Les.  Your right, this is your blog and im just a poster here.  And I guess I was trying to express myself but it came off as harsh and villianizing you and other atheists.  Im terribly sorry…

In all honesty, me thinks im going to avoid religion debate on here...it gets ugly…

Don’t worry, I’m not offended. It usually takes a bit to offend me. I don’t know that you came off as harsh or as trying to villainize atheists. Honestly, I wasn’t sure what point you were trying to make and I was just confused as to why you seemed to think I had been unfair about things.

Religion debates often get ugly, though they don’t necessarily have to. JethricOne and I know each other in real life and we can discuss religion all day long (he’s a believer) without ever pissing each other off. Sure he knows that I think his belief is silly, but then I’m sure there’s much about me he considers silly so it evens out in the end.

It is important that we realize that for the most part,the law is actually on our side regarding keeping creationism and ID out of public schools. The important thing is to know what your local and state school boards are up to and remind them calmly and rationally that when they cross that line toward teaching ID or creationism, that the Supreme Court already has rulings in place that you will refer to if it becomes necessary for you to sue them!

One thing you may not be quite aware of is the very thin razors edge we here in the USA are walking in terms of being a Theocracy.
Christians are by far the majority, they hold positions in every government/public office, from President down to school board and every thing in between.
The Christian Coalition is very actively literally breeding Christian lawyers & politicians like dogs, building, funding strictly Christian schools teaching nothing but pure Christian propaganda, dishing out Christian PhDs, turning out Christian lawyers, Christian teachers, Christian activist fast as they can.
If you think that sounds bit far fetched then take a gander at the Christian coalition website then have a looksee at “The 700 Club” and whatever Jerry Falwells propaganda show is “Liberty somethingorother” 1/2 the time I’m laughing my ass off when I watch that trash, the other 1/2 is like watching a horror movie cept its real.
The entire Senate recently voted 99-0 to uphold & try to intervene in the “Under God” case currently in the Supreme Court. I don’t think they have ever voted 99-0 on anything.
Whom isn’t a full blown religious fanatic in politics will at least kowtow to the religious rights every whim because they are scared to death of them.
Why we aren’t a Theocracy already is the closest thing iv ever seen that I could call a miracle.

So while “currently” the law may be on our side, that can change quick, Christians are fighting hard as they possibly can to change laws, amendments to their favor, not to mention if Atheist, Humanist, Agnostics etc. don’t stand up at least once in awhile to hopefully keep the status quo then I guarantee it wont.
We need more Newdow’s in my opinion to keep the Christians at bay and slap some reality into people.
I think we are all perfectly aware that they will never be happy till every single human on the planet is either Christian or DEAD.

I think the Canadians kinda have the right idea, and if the USA doesn’t adopt something similar soon we will be in trouble.

http://eye.net/eye/issue/issue_04.08.04/city/hat.html

This may sound a bit like I’m being like a Nunya Revere, “The Christians are coming, The Christians are coming!” but I bet I’m not far off the mark.

“"The more fervently humans believe, the more fervently they feel that contrariness is a threat."”

I say the things I do in the way I do because Iv given up being all kind & considerate quite awhile ago, Iv decided to fight fire with fire and give them a dose of their own medicine.
I purposely treat Christians with the exact same disdain as they do me “on weblogs” not in person.
In person I just smile and nod and say thank you & stay away from them as much as possible.

Nunyabiz -
I actually check out the CC website and watch the 700 Club weekly, as well as checking out all the creationism and ID websites. One group (sorry I don’t recall which) is pushing to get bibles in public schools. I sent them an e-mail telling them to keep pushing it through! I would love to have teenagers take a good hard look at the bible from a secular point of view. That is, after all, how I became an atheist.

Remember that not all Christians are fundies, and most Christians I speak with still believe in the separation of church and state.

Why we aren’t a theocracy already you would call a miracle? I call it the Constitution.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with the majority of your ideas and if someone tries to force their religious beliefs on me I do not pull any punches, on weblogs OR in person.

So what is my contribution to our cause? I raise free-thinking children who will challenge other’s beliefs when they think it is unfair. I keep an eye on the school districts’ book choices. Most of all I vote for politicians who are more likely to leave religion out of the picture when choosing Supreme Court Justices.

Les,

Lol, I wasnt directing it specifically at you...actually...not to you at all...your one of the most fair atheists ive ever spoken to.  As for some of the other posters here...well...to each his own…

That’s Exactly what you need to be doing Vicki.
If everyone with 2 brain cells to rub together did exactly what your doing we would all be allot better off. /applaud

Nope not all Christians are Fundies, they were from their own account at approx. 25-30% (think that was a year 2000 poll) though that number is rising slightly as Christians as a whole are losing approx. 1% annually, as their overall numbers dwindle Christians that were kind of on the fence are losing what mind they have left and resorting to more fundamentalist views to hang onto that lunacy.
So probably at least 28-32% by now.

But globally that puts fundie Christians at approx. around 700 Million, in the USA alone approx. 70 Million that’s allot of nutcases running loose as far as I’m concerned.

One of the main things I’ve always respected about you, Les, is your even handedness. It’s no small or easy thing to be as fair as you are with your blog. This is the visitor’s site too, by virtue of interactive association, and I can’t thank you enough for being willing to share it.

The fact that you allow comments, of whatever flavor, makes for very compelling reading. Anyone who wishes to comment is allowed a chance to address their peers and antagonists, and we tend to speak from our hearts. It’s the inter-blend of the passionate and the frivolous, long-considered and eureka-style thoughts that gives this site it’s edge and it’s allure.

I’ve even gotten into trouble on other sites because I’ve had the audacity to expect, there, the same quality of discussions I see here. 

You and Eric inspire us to speak succinctly and think creatively. My biggest fear is that this site will someday cease to be, and who then will both provoke and appease me?

SEB - Not imitated often enough!

I need to take lessons in how to be brief and concise from Elwed.

You’re the first one to accuse me of these particular vices

I’ve frequented a lot of atheist sites and many of them are only confrontationally angry like Nunyabiz without the leavening influence of give-and-take between Les and Wolf.  It’s like drinking a bottle of hot sauce without the taco.

OK, that’s a wierd analogy so what I mean is, the taco wouldn’t be any good without the hot sauce either.  No, wait, I mean… this site is just the right amount of hot sauce on an excellent combo plate.  (I have got to stop posting right before lunch!)

I am a former Christian minister who became an atheist (or maybe realized he always had been.) So far I’ve learned two things about living as an atheist:

1) It’s even more unpopular than being gay.  There are openly gay politicians but can you think of even one openly atheist politician?

I have relatives who won’t speak to me and once in a while I find threatening or abusive email in my inbox. (Say, that’s a fine reflection on Christianity!) And, the occasional total raving nutball.

2) Anyone who can “choose” to believe or not believe isn’t being honest with themselves.  I’d love to believe the more popular thing, the thing that would make it easier for me to identify with the majority, but I just can’t; it doesn’t add up.

Andy Rooney said “closet atheism is rampant in this country.” Maybe things would be easier if all the atheists spoke up at once.  We’re not really so rare, just often intimidated.

So I mightily appreciate every atheist who comes out of the closet.  That goes for Les, and Nunya, and GeekMom, and Spocko, and…

Hiya decrepitoldfool
Thanks for the thoughts and the link. I found your story very “inspiring”. ;o)

PS. George, I really enjoyed your fictional story too.

Fave quote…

Faith is a lie, a self-delusion.  It’s wishful thinking.

Thank you Spocko!  (I’ve had lunch now, so I’m feeling better.)

I read through half of this and had to take a break. It’s a shame that most Christian religious people totally miss the point of the message of the bible. Modern day Christians are no different than the pharasees of Jesus’ time. Did anyone ever see The Greatest Story Ever Told? There’s a seen where the rabbi is saying “and if anyone sees a sinner you should turn from them...” and Jesus is sitting in the back of the synagogue saying “No, NO, No!” I do the same thing at church when I hear the whole hellfire and brimstone thing. I don’t think that’s what it’s all about. I was spoon fed alot when I first started going to church but my mother raised me to think for myself. I’m constantly questioning things and my favorite prayer is “Lord deliver me from what I think I know.” Someone mentioned that Christians are the majority but if that’s true how does that line up with there are FEW who will enter? Another thing in the bible it says that Antioch is where they were first called Christians, because people could tell by their lifestyle that they knew Jesus. Nowadays there’s a multitude of self-proclaimed Christians just because they said some prayer at an alter. The proof is in the living. If I’m a Christian let someone else call me that. My Dad never proffessed a belief in Christ but he sure acted like you’d expect one too. I don’t think giving ourselves or others labels makes us that thing. It’s hard for me when I hear stereotypes of “Christians” because as far as I can tell the people who fit the stereotype aren’t really Christians at all. Just my opion of course.

And a fair opinion it is, too. No complaints from me.

Hey,
I’m 15 and I feel like the only kid out there that is thinking independantly. I am the only kid i know that watches the news and goes to websites souch as this one. What is wrong with the world?
Has anybody seen the movie inherite the wind? It is about a court case justifiying the teaching of evolution. There was some backwards town that was so afraid to accept science they completly blocked it out of their lives. That isnt what im writing about though. One point made in the movie is that christians use god as a crutch and how that is a sad thing. I am an atheist to the core but i still wish that everything had a purpose. Thats the nice fairytale thing about god. My girlfriend’s mom just died and the only thing that keeps her from suicide is the idea that god meant for her to die and that she is in heaven. Its sad some people arent strong enough to deal with tragity independantly but if it helps some people cope i suppose it is ok.

Also does anyone else out there notice that religion fit nicely with totalitarian governments that mistreated their subjects. If you live a life devoted to god you will have a happy afterlife. That kept people from complaining about the present because if you spend all your free time praying you cant start a revolution. I doubt christianity was developed to govern the people but you have to admit it did work out that way in history.

Thanks for letting me speak my mind! Somebody argue with me because nobody at my school has the capasity for a good debate. Thanks for everything. Bush sucks, yeah to gay marriage.

P.S. Fuck all you people that say what would the founding fathers say because they all owned slaves and five wives. Later!

Id have to agree alot with tidalrider. Ive enjoyed reading both sides of the issue. Belief in God is Faith.And the funny thing about faith is it can’t be proven even God admitted that. I even as a christian enjoy your website so thanks for putting it up. Just for some backround Im from a christian school where Im not liked for disagreeing with teachers and making logical and well thought out arguements. I applaud you all and now I goto bed thank you....