So therefore I don’t need any ones approval.

So she engages in a long, drawn-out conversation in which she spouts out unoriginal and unsuccessful refutations of evolution in a feeble attempt to convince Les of her uninformed ideas? She seems awfully defensive for someone who doesn’t need anyone’s approval.

Teri is just another X-tian who is trying to sound intellectual and failing miserably. With luck, she’ll be back so that Les can decisively win the debate and drive her away once and for all.

Teri is just another X-tian who is trying to sound intellectual and failing miserably. With luck, she’ll be back so that Les can decisively win the debate and drive her away once and for all.

You cannot ‘win’ the debate. You can either frustrate or convince her. Both is hard with such people.

Les, I think you did well in the first exchange, but in the second I do think you did exactly what people accuse atheists of doing:  you used abusive language and name-calling to drive home your points.  Was that really, really necessary?  She was polite and well-spoken the whole time (at least in this exchange).

She makes all the classic errors in logic with regards to science and evolution, but I really think that if we have any hope of teaching people and ending this widespread ignorance, we can’t blow it by starting the name-calling from our side.

Even our delightful, brilliant Deadscot started out believing this stuff.  But, as they say, he “got better.”

GeekMom’s right, Les.  People with strongly held religious beliefs, in my experience, are always looking for any reason to ignore a contrary opinion.  They try (not always successfully, and that’s your window of opportunity) to fit the world to their already-constructed worldview.  In this case, your anger gave her an out.

Geekmom, you’re channeling Consi

I think my track record here in the comments shows I can be a pretty patient person with most of these idiots, but occasionally even my patience wears thin. I admit, I got overly annoyed with the fact that she decided to whine about me calling her on her ignorance rather than actually check to see if she was and I didn’t see much point in being patient with her after that.

I can’t be Mr. Extreme Patience all the time.

You cannot ‘win’ the debate.

I don’t expect that Teri will be convinced (although she might become frustrated) by Les’ arguments. By “winning the debate” I mean victory for whoever has the facts on his/her side. In this case it is clearly Les.

I know, Les, and you’ve been under unusual stress lately, so I understand. 

Geekmom, you’re channeling Consi ...

Elwed, you sure know how to hurt a girl. 

Actually, have you ever noticed that anyone who feels the need to say, “I’m smart, really I am,” generally isn’t?

The converse can be true as well.  For example, when you see, “I’m just an ignorant country bumpkin, so could you please explain to me ...?” it’s a sure sign that Consi is about to open up a BIG can of rhetorical whup-ass on yo’ haid. 

I realy don’t mean anything bad, but there is something I dont understand about Americans.
They use tones of explosives to kill a tiny ant.

Sorry but if she was limited in her knowledge why you use all the tools and the weapons.

Alpha, you’re right.  Americans have a tendency to go to extremes in just about everything they do.  I don’t know where it comes from, but it’s everywhere you look.  If something is good, then LOTS of it is even better; if something is bad, by god, there had better not be ANY sign of it around.  Either you’re for us, or you’re against us.  If there’s a problem, we have to solve it RIGHT NOW, preferably using the latest technology.

But I’m rambling.  Too much Nyquil last night. 

“I found that most people who believe in this theory called evolution often resort to name calling as if that will change someones mind, or opinion...If you going to resort to a level of name calling then please do me a favor and don’t email me.  I am a bright and intelligent person, and I know that. So therefore I don’t need any ones approval.  Understand?”

My response:
I have been a firm believer in evolution ever since it was taught to me in the third grade at a Christian school. Over the past four years I have seen this upstart of ID folks try to destroy intelligent thought with pseudo-science. It baffles me how sheep-like humans can be. And anyone who knows sheep know that they smell, follow blindly, and are very stupid. I never liked the comparison of people as sheep and god as the shepherd. However, it speaks much truth in an ironic way.

Oh, and remember Terri, “Your good enough, your smart enough, and dog-gonnit your fellow brainless sheep like you.”

Honestly girl, you are saying that you are bright and intelligent, I’ll just consider that an opinion too and we all know just how informed and intelligent your opinions can be. Also, if you don’t need approval then why the hell did you even waste our time by sending Les your opinions in the first place?

I have been a firm believer in evolution ever since it was taught to me in the third grade at a Christian school.

Are you serious? Christian schools teach evolution? Were they trying to “discredit” it, or have I just seriously misjudged how liberal some Christian schools can be?

I’m a transplant Minnesotan in Texas. My anthropology professor was amazed that Minnesota teaches evolution in the public school system thoroughly. Here in Texas, in an effort to not offend, they glance over the subject.

This system of “offense” is crippling the youth. It allows the ID people to work their way into fragile minds that hadn’t been able to really learn what evolution is about.

“Are you serious? Christian schools teach evolution? Were they trying to “discredit�? it, or have I just seriously misjudged how liberal some Christian schools can be?”

My Response:
I’m very serious. And no, they did not teach it in order to discredit it, in fact, I had never even heard of creationism or intelligent design until I got out of that school, which was k-12 by the way and I attended it all 13 years.

I am particularly proud of my education in that school as I had quite a few teachers who encouraged me to think outside the box. I was still a Christian at that time and frankly my assumption here is that the school saw it as the parent’s responsiblity to educate their children concerning accepting evolution or not.

Either way, I would consider my school to be pretty liberal even though you will always get the cadre of redneck no-question fundamentalist students who think they’re the shit. I,obviously, was not one of them. I think I turned out pretty well considering this school was in a semi-rural county in Mississippi.

Are you serious? Christian schools teach evolution? Were they trying to “discredit�? it, or have I just seriously misjudged how liberal some Christian schools can be?

Catholics are Christian, as are Episcopalians. Both teach evolution.  In my experience the Christian schools had science teachers that were head and shoulders above the public schools. 

The distinction is not between Christians and non-Christians when evolution is involved.  It is between those Christians, most likely self-labeling as evangelicals, who read Genesis literally.  Those that read Genesis literally are unable to cope with evolution because it is simply not compatible with that literal reading of Genesis.

I’ll side with Consi here. Not all Christians are True Believers^TM, nor are Christian schools necessarily a science-free environment.

Not all Christians are True BelieversTM, nor are Christian schools necessarily a science-free environment.

Very true. It’s just that, with my experiences growing up, most of the people I knew who attended Christian schools were mega-True Believers. Did you see the movie “Saved?” That’s the kind of thing that usually springs to mind when I see the words “Christian” and “school” together. Though apparently this stereotype is sometimes unwarranted, as Errandchild relates.

Catholics are Christian, as are Episcopalians

Not according to our friend Jack Chick.

The discussion was fascinating to me, but probably not in the way it was to the other commenters. Did everybody miss, or were they just too polite to say the obvious out loud?--Teri isn’t just ignorant about evolution, biology, etc., she’s stupid and very nearly illiterate. What else can you possibly say of a person who asks how earth got created from apes?

Both of my younger siblings attended Episcopalian and Catholic schools in Texas, and they received pretty solid science instruction. Episcopalian schools in particular tend not to have many religious nuts in either the faculty or the student body, in my experience. And it’s worth remembering that virtually all of the very best high schools in this country are religious private schools, e.g. the east coast boarding schools like St. Paul’s and Andover. Many of these institutions have excellent science programs. Moreover, many of the top colleges in the country either are or originally were religiously affiliated.  It’s too bad that more of the religous moderates don’t seem up in arms about how this whole intelligent design nonsense is reflecting on the many parochial schools which are strong on education and light on indoctrination.

As the newbie here I’m still catching up, but I have to tell ya Les, you are ONE EVIL BASTARD..that’s meant in sincere admiration..but you’re hardly stupid.  I started to read the whole email conversation and was in hysterics.. my daugther who works with me asked what was so funny so I read it to her with a “teri -clueless” voice and a “Les Da’ Man” voice and
she fell off her chair she was laughing so hard..
thanks for breaking up the work day we needed that.

Bye the way… Teri is beyond clueless and needs
to crawl back into the swamp and try coming out a 2nd time, maybe this time she’ll get it right and actually evolve into one of us, not the
missing link she seems to be. 

If she comes back email me.. I have my own theory that blows the mind of the bible beaters.. that evolution and creation actually parallel to each other… when most of them find themselves actually listening to me and “thinking” they catch themselves and say “what makes you so sure”.. my reply is usually..  “what makes YOU SO SURE that God is on a 24/7 day and a 7 day week ????  Adios..

Very few creationists to visit this site (and others) are on firm ground with the principles behind science, much less the actual science involved. I can’t help wonder if this is some kind of cognitive dissonance, religious denial, or if they lack the intellectual capacity to grasp the profoundly simple yet elegant concepts of evolution.  Either way, it’s depressing.

Xxena, I usually have more patience with the clueless that show up here, though it’s been thin for a few months now. I’m known for writing very long responses that link to a lot of citations to back up my claims, but it’s a time consuming process—some of my lengthier and better researched replies have taken over 8 hours to write—so if it’s something I’ve covered before then I’m more reluctant to bother doing it again. The best way to get me into verbose-bastard mode is to present an unusual argument that I’ve not heard before. When I do rip into someone, though, I can be pretty vicious. I have a sarcastic streak a mile long.

Thanks for the compliments, though, I do try to be entertaining when the sarcasm kicks in.

That’s why I like the site and your commentaries and replies.. we have that same sarcastic sense of humor and a low tolerance level for the braindead amoung us that are still walking and haven’t realized it yet.  My husband calls them Mental-dwarfs… I found myself using that term
in the great gun debates and then someone claming to be a “dwarf” threatened to sue me.. told him go for it big guy .. he didn’t get that part of the comment.. never heard from him so just some hoplophobe ninny trying to be tough. I did realize I was being unkind to real dwarfs so I’ve refrained from using it when at all possible. 

Hi there S.E.B.My name is Catherine Walker from a Blog site called “Synchronicity and Soup”.If you have a spare moment-please drop by and have a
peek. I write about some unusual ‘synchronistic moments’ in my life..and, strange Orange lights in the Sky etc.I’ve dropped by this,.. your Blog a nomber of times in the past couple of years..It’s a very interesting, magnetic and odd site you have going here.."Quite original”..that’s why I like it. Well done! Great Pic of you too! The word “Bastard” is such an iconic Australian term here...we all use it !..sooo self explanatory..  eh !ha! Would you maybe give me a link.. if you like my site- thanks !
ps...The video of the man falling out of a car...only to be hit by another car was..well..ummm sooo sad and shocking to say the least..I hope he was OK.  The video of Jesus singing “I will survive” was a real crack up..and I do love Jesus. I think he would have laughed at it himself !  Regards Catherine