That’s fucked u...er...wait a minute.  They found a webcam in his car? What the fuck was he going to do with that I wonder? Maybe he was a little confused.

Oh well, I love the one where the believer’s have all the morality and we heathens just don’t have anything to base ours off of.  Especially when this happens. Go Jebus!

Those that believe in sin do so because they have sin in there heart and not enough intellect to control their desires.

I don’t think intellect has much to do with it. Impulse control perhaps, but not intellect.

Undercover officers posing as a 13-year-old girl communicated with Joe Barron, 52, of Plano for about two weeks. The online conversations were sexual in nature, police said.

The internet, where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents.

Whats wrong with that? 13 is a great age.

Les says:

Whenever someone tells me that absent a belief in God I have no basis for my morality…

Some of history’s greatest ethicists were atheists, however theists argue (correctly or incorrectly) that the basis of those ethics is the Bible.

...I always have to wonder why it is that so many of those who do have said belief are so lacking in morality themselves.

There are plenty of intolerable self-righteous people around, looking for an opportunity to cast the first stone.  Most times, like Barron, they are closet sinners.  They discredit the Church and the good works it often engages in.

So, another paedophile bites the dust?  Good.  Enjoy prison life.  Prisoners hate paedophiles.  He’ll probably spend most of his time in solitary for his own protection.  Enjoy.

A week or two ago, I had a chat with my older daughter about safety and told her she’d find most of the “bad people” in a church.

Whenever someone tells me that absent a belief in God I have no basis for my morality I always have to wonder why it is that so many of those who do have said belief are so lacking in morality themselves.

The “no basis for morality” play is designed to differentiate the out-group from the in-group—even though that doesn’t prevent the boneheaded True Believers™ from actually buying it. And like the TBs that they are, they shrug off all the frocked hypocrites doing something nasty and breaking the 11th commandment.

elwedriddsche says:

A week or two ago, I had a chat with my older daughter about safety and told her she’d find most of the “bad people” in a church.

Are you serious?  I’d never say that to my kids.  I’d feel like it might close off an avenue of expression, community and support if they ever needed it.

From a young age, I told my kids what I believed in and that is that I respected the teachings and values of Jesus and that some people believed he is God but that he was not my God.

My daughter is a Christian.
My son is an atheist.

I’m cool with that.

Are you serious?  I’d never say that to my kids.

Absolutely, even though I deliberately quoted out of context. She should never trust mall security guards or priests.

I’d feel like it might close off an avenue of expression, community and support if they ever needed it.

Last year she argued with a Christian girl that gods don’t exist—at a Jewish summer camp.

She clearly has no problem expressing herself. As far as community and support are concerned, that’s really the only conceivable good organized religion has to offer—if you can stomach paying the price for it.

I encourage the kids to keep their own counsel. It’s fine if they have different opinions than mine, but I would not be cool at all with them letting somebody else doing their thinking for them, which is the very definition of subscribing to organized religion.

The ‘religion is the basis of morality’ thing is a little confusing to say the least: with an all-powerful god watching your every move, surely there is no room for morality, simply a constant struggle to keep your own eternal soul out of hell.
What’s more, someone who believes in a god who is omnipotent, omnipresent and good cannot help but reach the conclusion that all they do is right: after all, if it was wrong then god would have stopped them right?

By the way, faith, how do you know about prison life? a lot of TBs are going to read your comment about prisoners hating paedophiles and presume that you’ve spent time behind bars for committing various henious crimes (all, of course, because you do not worship mughty Jeeeeebus)!

I hate getting into the morality debate with True Believers™. The argument is so weak it’s still a little surprising to see it.

Edd says:

By the way, faith, how do you know about prison life? a lot of TBs are going to read your comment about prisoners hating paedophiles and presume that you’ve spent time behind bars for committing various henious crimes (all, of course, because you do not worship mughty Jeeeeebus)!

I have neither done time nor committed various heinous crimes.  I am an upstanding member of my community and an exemplary role model. 

Truth is, some years ago I saw a powerful documentary.  It was seemingly unbiased and very professional.  I was stunned to learn that 70% of all Australian prisoners had been sexually molested as children.  I can’t quite articulate it into words, but I was overwhelmed with emotion and empathy.

I hate getting into the morality debate with True Believers™. The argument is so weak it’s still a little surprising to see it.

I remember being dumped by my Christian boyfriend, who reasoned that he couldn’t let our G-rated relationship progress into PG territory b/c there was no possibility of marriage.  One of my co-workers stuck up for him on the grounds that a marriage can’t “flourish” without God.  She of the divorce and four kids by three different guys.  (Amazingly, I didn’t point that out at the time--if you think I’m sharp-tongued now… Ooof.)

Granted, that was just over mumble-twenty-mumble years ago, but I’m not surprised to see that mentality hang on.  Particularly in this political and economic climate, where the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do party of “Moral Values” has so royally effed things up for the next generations of Americans.  Call it a “certainty vacuum” maybe?

13? That’s kind of old for some TB (ex: Aisha

Aisha was six or seven years old when betrothed to Muhammad. She stayed in her parents’ home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated.

I have neither done time nor committed various heinous crimes.

So, faith, you’ve stuck to one kind of heinous crime, and gotten away with it so far?  Sorry, I couldn’t resist…

Edd: how do you know about prison life? a lot of TBs are going to read your comment about prisoners hating paedophiles and presume that you’ve spent time behind bars for committing various henious crimes

I just caught that Faith is in Australia.  I was going to say that here in the states, as we are number one when it comes to incarceration, it’s fairly common knowledge if you’ve ever watched much tv.  I’ve heard it so many times, I couldn’t tell you where I first learned of it.  Pedophiles and rapists are considered scum by the rest of the prisoners.

Just one more thing to confirm for me that Texas is just generally really fucked up. 

Ragman says:

...Pedophiles and rapists are considered scum by the rest of the prisoners.

I haven’t heard that about rapists, especially when so much of it happens in gaols.

However, I now know that when it comes to children and their abuse (sexual or otherwise), some prisoners have a strong sense of justice.

zilch says:

So, faith, you’ve stuck to one kind of heinous crime, and gotten away with it so far?…

Du bist mir ein feiner Freund!

You assume way too much. 

Better to concentrate on your intrument making than the wayward ways (or lack thereof) of women in another hemisphere.

You might also consider avoiding the over consumption of unfiltered water over there.  From what I’ve seen on the news, it transforms men into incestuous fiends...and stay away from quaint villages!

Next thread on here might be about you.

“He was always the quiet sort, kept mostly to himself...”

in aller Güte

Faith- du mir auch.

Yes, the Austrians have been in the news lately, haven’t they?  I suppose you’ve also heard about the man who was embarrassed about his business losses, so he killed his wife, his seven year old daughter, his mother and father, and his father-in-law, with an ax?

Actually, though, Vienna still has the lowest crime rate of any large city in Europe, as far as I know, and the water is excellent.

zilch says:

...I suppose you’ve also heard about the man who was embarrassed about his business losses, so he killed his wife, his seven year old daughter, his mother and father, and his father-in-law, with an ax? ...

Nope.  Only sex sells over here.

Some of history’s greatest ethicists were atheists, however theists argue (correctly or incorrectly) that the basis of those ethics is the Bible.

Huh, so there were not ethics before the bible?  I find that hard to believe…

Its more beliveable (and probably provable—is that a word?) to say that the basis of the ethics taught in the bible were those of the precieved ethics of the time.