nowiser- That was a good a chuckle but it’s not everyday that one stumbles upon plethysmograph.  All I could ascertain from the word was that it had to with measuring the size of something until I looked it up.  Too damn witty for your own good.

The thought of calibrating that instrument made me cringe…

I wonder what type of readings it would produce if you applied it with that new circumcision device Les posted awhile back?

*gaurgh!*  Oh man, If I saw that circumcision device headed at me, while I was wearing a plethysmograph, we’d be looking at negative numbers.

Shrinkage—would—occur!

Asking to describe my experiences of God is like asking someone how they know they are in love.
If you believe in love, you can believe in God. You just have to feel it for it to be true.
It was arrogant of me to think I could be convincing through logic.

But as far as physical manifestations, I have only ever experienced His communications through art (songs and movies especially), texts and subtle comments or conversations people happen to be having nearby. And in every case they have communicated something to me which I was dealing with in my head or having confusing feelings or thoughts about. They have basically been numerous and frequent correlations between outside sources of communication (the radio, billboards, movies and all that) and thoughts in my head. But of course if you are not open to the possibility of someone or some thing trying to communicate with you through the world around you, you will only ever see things in relation to man.

That is all the proof of Him I have experienced in my life, but it has been more than enough to have a relationship with Him. But as far as the love thing goes, I have reached states of ecstasy through meditation, which have been by far the most undeniable experiences of what I would call God.

But that’s cool you say you are open to the possibility of a God. That’s good enough for me.

I really just wanted to offer the idea of God saying “Hello” with the lightning bolts. So take it easy ya’ll,

- The guy who thinks he’s Jesus

I’m curious.  Would you be willing to commit your life to a spouse based on similar evidence of ‘love’ and support her financially?

Just want to see if there’s an untapped market out there that I’m missing.

I suppose it goes without saying that you obviously have a much lower standard of proof than some of the rest of us. Which is fine if you’re happy with that, but don’t criticize the rest of us simply because we hold to a higher standard.

It’s not difficult to imagine how you might think you were hearing from God in the random coincidences of billboards, music, or conversations being eerily similar to thoughts you’d been having, but that’s not proof that God’s talking to you in any real form as much as it’s an indication of the powerful pattern matching ability of your brain.

Before we installed version 1.1 of the script that runs SEB here everyone who commented had to enter a captcha and it became common practice to state what the word you had to enter was at the time because it often seemed to be related to the topic or point being discussed. Was this God trying to communicate with us through a security feature on a blog? You’d probably think so, but me… not so much.

As for God saying “hello” with lightening bolts, well, I think most of us would prefer he/she/it would stick to postcards.

Another fun song to sing, for those of you who are parents and have had the misfortune to have to endure Barney ...

To the tune of Barney’s theme (also known as “Yankee Doodle”):

Jesus is a sa-vi-or from our imagination /
He’s the kind of guy you’d call a mythical creation ...
Jesus can be your God too, if you just make-believe him!

Ever notice how well Barney fits as a Jesus figure?  He comes to life when the kids call for him and believe in him; otherwise he’s just a stuffed toy on the set.  He makes magical things happen and gives everyone a hug.

It’s downright scary.  Suffer the little children, and all that.  (Make the parents suffer too, while you’re at it.)

(“being” - I kid you not)

When the pattern of coincidences is so numerous and pervasive throughout the reality in which I live, I cannot deny a design or purpose to them that transcends random ‘coincidence’.

And when I hear about things happening like this lightning bolt incident, I can’t deny that the puzzle pieces all fit together in a way that makes very real sense. I see Him working in many ways all over the place toward one common end: to convince everyone that He exists and is indeed a loving God, just to provide some peace of mind. But He goes further and gives people tools with which to overcome mental anguish, just so our experiences can be a little more pleasant.

But yes, of course, if these things are coincidences to you, that is what they will be. But in my mind, why believe they are merely coincidences if they do indeed make sense on a grander scale, and actually improve the quality of your specific state of mind?

But as far as believing in Jesus to make him come true, of course you do. For someone or something to exist to you in some real way, of course your mind has to believe in it. That is true on every level of creation.

For some “traumatic” event to be or feel “traumatic” to you, you have to believe that it is traumatic for it to have a realistic negative effect on you. And for something “good” to happen to you, you have to believe that thing is a “good” thing. Like if someone tells you they love you, and you don’t believe in love, you won’t feel their love for you. But if you are open to it, you might actually feel it. Unless of course they are lying, but there is a discernable difference between saying you love someone and feeling it (which is detectable by the mind machine =).

When Jesus was getting nailed up, he actually asked forgivness for the people who killed him. He was still able to feel love for these people as they were mocking him on his cross. I believe this was possible because he didn’t believe in the trauma of the event. He realized it was a temporal, physical occurance with no real long-lasting effects.

And you know how we (and when I say “we” i mean me and other people I know, so I include myself in the human race. Why is it so strange to think of each other as one collective unit. Brothers and sisters? WE all occupy the same physical space in the universe, so why not treat each other with some love and respect?), anyway you know how we tell kids “don’t think about it” when they get cuts and stuff? Because it’s true. If you don’t concentrate your mental “energy” on the “trauma”, it will become less traumatic or even not at all. And there’s all sorts of incidents of people overcoming diseases through positive thinking and living.

So yah it’s true that you have to believe something for it to be true to you, but its existence does not require your belief. Merely its existence within your perceptual framework. Just because Europeans didn’t believe the lands of the Americas existed, doesn’t mean they didn’t. And when they ran smack into them, they had to shift their perception of the world to include this whole new “reality”.

My blog word is “having”. I can’t find any meaning in it, but maybe someone can.

- The Jesus Douchebag

P.S. I am not trying to criticize anyone. I’m just talking about what I think is true.

And about “being closed off because my world would make no sense without it”, my mind isn’t closed to any possibility. I have just experienced things in a way that has lead me to this perception of reality.

At one point (only about 3 years ago) I was strongly agnostic, believing that if there is a God, it is too far beyond our powers of perception to waste time thinking about, so I didn’t. And futhermore, I believed that if He created us in a specific way so we could behave in a specific way, there’s no way he messes around with our world by breaking physical laws and whatnot. That would be impossible.

But I began to have undeniable experiences of a God-like force making itself known to me, like a slap in the face (but a loving one).
So I haven’t grown up as an indoctrinated religious person, because I was raised Catholic and called bullshit on all of it and refused to get confirmed or be part of the church just out of principle. But I came back to “spirituality” after I started having these experiences. I haven’t gotten my ideas of God from a textbook or manual given to me by my parents, but from my own experiences and intuitions. And THAT is the only reason I believe in a spiritual world at all.

My word is “figures”.

- Jesus

When the pattern of coincidences is so numerous and pervasive throughout the reality in which I live, I cannot deny a design or purpose to them that transcends random ‘coincidence’.

Who said it was random? What is your obsessing on the idea that if it’s not directed by God then it must be random? Randomness in reality is actually pretty hard to come by. Even random number generators aren’t truly random.

And, again, just because you insist on attributing something to God for no reason other than you can’t think of another possibility doesn’t mean that it’s really the work of God.

And when I hear about things happening like this lightning bolt incident, I can’t deny that the puzzle pieces all fit together in a way that makes very real sense. I see Him working in many ways all over the place toward one common end: to convince everyone that He exists and is indeed a loving God, just to provide some peace of mind. But He goes further and gives people tools with which to overcome mental anguish, just so our experiences can be a little more pleasant.

Um, how does zapping someone with a couple of lightening bolts for no apparent reason show that he’s a loving God? Simply because he didn’t kill the guy? What about the poor bastards out there who have survived dozens of lightening strikes, sometimes being burned in the process, how is that proof of his love for those people? Why doesn’t he show his love with something that can’t be ruled out as a coincidence like, say, zapping EVERYONE with a lightening bolt that doesn’t kill them all at the same time? Imagine the news reports: Yesterday at exactly 3:03PM Eastern Standard Time every single person in the world was simultaneously struck by a lightening bolt from out of the blue for no apparent reason. Now THAT would be difficult to write off as a coincidence.

But yes, of course, if these things are coincidences to you, that is what they will be. But in my mind, why believe they are merely coincidences if they do indeed make sense on a grander scale, and actually improve the quality of your specific state of mind?

There’s the problem: You don’t seem to understand that these things don’t make sense on a grander scale to the rest of us, nor do they necessarily improve the quality of our specific state of mind. What makes sense to us is that they’re coincidences and our happiness isn’t diminished by this realization. I think my happiness would be diminished if I actually believed there was a deity out there who might zap me with a lightening bolt for no apparent reason as a sign of his love for me. With friends like that…

But as far as believing in Jesus to make him come true, of course you do. For someone or something to exist to you in some real way, of course your mind has to believe in it. That is true on every level of creation.

I went back up to read some of the earlier replies because I honestly can’t figure out what it is you’re trying to say here so I’ll just say: What?

For some “traumatic�? event to be or feel “traumatic�? to you, you have to believe that it is traumatic for it to have a realistic negative effect on you. And for something “good�? to happen to you, you have to believe that thing is a “good�? thing. Like if someone tells you they love you, and you don’t believe in love, you won’t feel their love for you. But if you are open to it, you might actually feel it. Unless of course they are lying, but there is a discernible difference between saying you love someone and feeling it (which is detectable by the mind machine =).

Time to suggest you study up on psychology it seems.

Belief does play a role in many emotions, but it’s not a requirement in order to experience them and emotional states can be faked very effectively by many individuals. Hell, many major movies wouldn’t work if the actors weren’t able to fake their emotional states in a believable manner and history is replete with examples of scam artists who managed to perpetuate their crimes by convincing others that they truly loved them.

For that matter, belief can lead one to experience emotions from others that aren’t really being expressed. The whole “I feel the love of God” experience is exactly that sort of situation, but it also shows up among many victims of spousal abuse.

When Jesus was getting nailed up, he actually asked forgivness for the people who killed him. He was still able to feel love for these people as they were mocking him on his cross. I believe this was possible because he didn’t believe in the trauma of the event. He realized it was a temporal, physical occurance with no real long-lasting effects.

It’s also possible he was just a masochist.

And you know how we (and when I say “we�? i mean me and other people I know, so I include myself in the human race. Why is it so strange to think of each other as one collective unit.

I don’t think it’s all that strange to think of us as a collective unit until you start making claims about what “We” think and what “We” feel about a particular topic. This singular “We” you keep speaking of consists of a collective of individuals who will vary in thought, opinion, and feeling on all manner of topics. So when you over-generalize and ask questions such as “why do we learn something, or even a few things about our world, then automatically close our minds off to other realities or truths, claiming that we now know all there is to know” as though it were an established fact that most people think in such a manner when the truth is that quite a lot of people don’t think like that, well, I end up taking exception to that generalization. In other words, avoid over-generalizing and there won’t be a problem.

Brothers and sisters? WE all occupy the same physical space in the universe, so why not treat each other with some love and respect?),

I don’t see anyone here who’s advocating that we shouldn’t try to treat each other with some love and respect, but for me these are things you must earn from me as I don’t just hand them out without good reason. There are plenty of people in this world who have demonstrated that they are not worthy of my love and respect and as such about all I’m willing to give them is my tolerance.

For example, I’m perfectly willing to tolerate you running around thinking your happy thoughts and marveling at how much God loves you because he secretly talks to you through snippets of music and literature and overheard conversations and wouldn’t it be wonderful if the whole world would get together and give itself one great big group hug and then sat down and sang positive and uplifting songs together around a bonfire all you want to. Hell, I’ll even pull you from a burning car wreck if I happen to be in the area just because that’s the kind of guy I am.

But if you want my love and respect, well, you’re going to have to earn that.

anyway you know how we tell kids “don’t think about it�? when they get cuts and stuff? Because it’s true. If you don’t concentrate your mental “energy�? on the “trauma�?, it will become less traumatic or even not at all. And there’s all sorts of incidents of people overcoming diseases through positive thinking and living.

Wow, that’s a stunningly gross misinterpretation of how pain works. Sure, not thinking about a cut will help reduce the pain. Not because of the “power of belief,“ but because that wonderful “sensing device” you keep going on about is pretty piss-poor at dealing with all the sensory information it takes in. Your brain can only deal with so much data at once so when you focus your attention on something else you’re effectively limiting how much pain data your brain can process. Again, however, this isn’t to say that belief can’t have some impact on pain as the placebo effect clearly demonstrates that it can. A positive attitude can help, but it has little to do with removing the “mental energy” from the “trauma.“

So yah it’s true that you have to believe something for it to be true to you, but its existence does not require your belief.

This is almost as good a line as your “everyone is confused until we are not” one was.

Merely its existence within your perceptual framework. Just because Europeans didn’t believe the lands of the Americas existed, doesn’t mean they didn’t. And when they ran smack into them, they had to shift their perception of the world to include this whole new “reality�?.

There’s a subtle, but significant difference between running into a major landmass right in front of you and having God communicate through various coincidences. One’s tangible, the other isn’t. That’s called comparing apples to oranges.

P.S. I am not trying to criticize anyone. I’m just talking about what I think is true.

That’s fine, except when challenged to back up your claims with some sound reasoning you avoid the issue by resorting to overly generalized criticisms of how mankind supposedly thinks of reality.

I was right in predicting you wouldn’t answer my last question in my previous reply to you. Two replies later and you still haven’t addressed it.

And about “being closed off because my world would make no sense without it�?, my mind isn’t closed to any possibility. I have just experienced things in a way that has lead me to this perception of reality.

Yeah, heavy drug use can do that to a person.

I’ll skip the “I used to be an agnostic” anecdote without comment.

But I began to have undeniable experiences of a God-like force making itself known to me, like a slap in the face (but a loving one).

You keep claiming these experiences of God are “undeniable,“ but you refuse to answer the question of how you know they are from this God you believe in. Define “undeniable experience” as you see it.

So I haven’t grown up as an indoctrinated religious person, because I was raised Catholic and called bullshit on all of it and refused to get confirmed or be part of the church just out of principle. But I came back to “spirituality�? after I started having these experiences. I haven’t gotten my ideas of God from a textbook or manual given to me by my parents, but from my own experiences and intuitions. And THAT is the only reason I believe in a spiritual world at all.

And this supports your argument in what way?

What’s all the fighting about? I just want to dance, wave my many arms and break stuff. Sheesh.

There is nothing I can say, or want to say about my “undeniable experiences” at this point. They’re too personal for me to talk about them in detail, but suffice it to say they have to do with experiencing feelings of pure love and joy for no apparent reason. It was like being struck by lightning with no thunder clouds around.

I know the words “true love” and “pure joy” don’t even have much of a place in reality to most people, but I am a witness to their existence.

I brought up the denying Catholicism bit just to let you know that I’m not speaking from experience, not indoctrination.

And as far as the lightning bolts, I think each divine incident has its own purpose. I think the bolts were more of a “Hello” than an “I LOVE YOU, SUCK ON THIS!“ But everything within this system is a part of God, so just because we perceive certain aspects of nature to be dangerous or harmful doesn’t mean there can’t be love behind them.

God’s love isn’t demonstrated by his destructive storms and earthquakes, it’s demonstrated by the fact that he gave us life and a chance to experience all it has to offer (the good with the bad). So just millions people died in the Holocaust (and however many millions die a year from whatever), doesn’t mean God didn’t love them enough and so allowed them to die a horrible painful death. It just means he loves us so much that he has given us his creation to work with and allows us to excercise our free will, no matter what we choose to do. So if someone says, “I feel like cutting my mother’s eyes out of her skull,“ God will say,
“Ok little one, I respect your choice of action, even though I know it will not make you (ultimately) happy or yield positive results. But I will allow you to live and learn, and decide who you want to be in every choice you make.“
And God knows that it truly doesn’t matter if the mother dies a horrible and painful death, because the second her body is dead, she will be met by the most ecstatic feeling of freedom, bliss, joy and love all at once. And as far as the loved ones of the mother, God sees how it will effect their life stories, but he knows the pain will only help them grow in the long run and in the end they will see her again.

My sound reasoning for God is definately not what you would call “sound”, because love is CRAZY. This world is crazy, and everything in it can be called “rational” or “irrational” depending on who’s looking at it and how. So I’m not saying my personal reasons for belief are what you, Les, would call “sound”, but they are very REAL. “Sound”, “sane” and “rational” are words which describe things or events that “make sense” to your perceived construction of reality. Americans do lots of things that I’m sure doesn’t “make sense” to many other cultures, and vise versa. Accounts of events or experiences will never “make sense” from one person to the next unless one person can relate to the experience of the thing being described, or at least the idea of it. And it will only really be real to you if you can relate to the experience on an emotional level as well as intellectual. That’s why so many Christians have to fake their “love for Christ”, because they don’t know what true love FEELS like.

As you said, someone has to earn your love or respect. Which, I assume, means they have to match up with some personal idea of a “lovable” or “respectable” person. So if someone or something does not meet certain criteria in our minds as being “rational” or “sane”, then they are put outside of our “sanity” bubble and become defined as “insane” or “different”.
If you met Salvidor Dali when he was unknown, and he came up to you spouting all kinds of nonsense about some tangent he was on, would you stand there and be open to this man and his ideas, or would you place him outside of your “rational” bubble and maybe even call him crazy? And if you chose to call him crazy, would he actually BE crazy, in some objective sense? Or would he just be different? Could YOU be the crazy one for not believing in his ideas? Or is he the crazy one for having them? ... It’s all relative to perception.

To me, a poem or song about an experience of love IS a rational account of an experience of God. A beautiful painting of some strange and intangible object that is called “The Divine Encounter” IS a sound account of such a divine encounter, if it was indeed the artists’ intention to account for such a thing. And while this might be a “lower standard” of proof to you, I perceive it as the “highest standard” or measure of a person’s experience of the divine. And your “high standard” of proof, such as the simultaneous worldwide lightning storm, is what I would call “unreasonable expectations”. It is presumptuous to demand God be a certain thing as a prerequisite for your belief. How would you feel if you told a someone you loved them, and they said, “Prove it by selling everything you own and buying me a diamond ring.“ Wouldn’t her expectations be unreasonable? And if you didn’t live up to them, would it be a sign that you truly don’t love her, or just that you don’t want to give in to her absurd demands?

I believe if something such as the worldwide lightning strike occured, many people would still doubt a higher power’s influence. I think for someone to truly believe in God, that person has to know what God feels like. And unless you open your heart to the feeling of God, and your mind to the reality of God, you will never believe no matter how many miracles you witness.

But what is the question you had for me? I try to answer them directly, but there are many posed in one post. As I’m sure you’ll agree about mine.

My blog word is “bring”.

- Jesus

Not fighting Shiva, just talking.

My blog word is “door”.

Coincidences?

Now I know why they crucified this fucker!