Posted by bowdwn5

You have to understand that I exclude God from everything else (meaning that he has more ability).

Well of course you do! You couldn’t very well believe in Him if you saw him as just common energy converted to matter, and back again, and you couldn’t be in awe of him if you had to apply logic regarding Him.
You say you don’t believe energy has always existed but you have no problem believing God has always existed. Fine - That’s a paradox you appear to be comfortable with. Just don’t expect Les or anyone else to believe you want to learn anything.

However if you do - consider that we discover more about matter and energy everyday. We believe the smallest particle of matter may be a quark, yet we don’t understand much about it yet. The quark may just be a point of reference for matter to “congeal” around. It’s possible that an even smaller particle of matter exists that has no solid anchor in physical reality and causes matter and energy to �blink� in and out of physical existence. Quarks may have this property. If that is so, the universe is constantly being created over and over again, as though for the first time, nearly instantaneously.

The only thing we know for sure is that we don’t know for sure how and why we are “here”. That’s why we need to keep open minds so that when answers are possible, we’ll recognize our chances to discover them.

You may want to check out these websites to learn more.

What is the smallest particle of matter?

Inquiring Minds

Matter and Energy

Theory: Leptons

Theory: Quarks

Another idea to ponder and then I’ll pause for a while:

The size of a letter on this web page is about 10 billion times smaller than the Earth. Yet, the size of this letter is about 10 billion times larger than an atom and 100 billion times larger than a neutrino, not to mention a quark. There is a universe in any direction that we look, an infinite texture to every object. As far as we know the universe is not only infinitely immense but infinitely enduring, and possibly reflects limitless design and variation potentials. What kind of God would give us a religion that would deal with only a tiny portion of time and space that we can hope to physically verify. Why create a reality for us and give us such a limited book reflecting such confined beliefs, events and characters as the Bible to describe it?

Maybe this God was created within the boundaries of our perceptions and shrinks in pertinence the more we learn of our large and small surroundings and intrinsic viability.

Brock,  Your opinion that my thinking is paradoxical doesn’t have anything to do with my willingness to learn.  The worst case scenario is that I’m in error in what I think.  People make errors all of the time, smart and stupid alike.  It has nothing to do with my genuine interest in learning. 

I appreciate your input…I’ll take the time to surf’em and hopefully learn something.  As long as I don’t start jumping to paradoxical conclusions. 

Anyway, your key points appear to be related specifically to matter (quarks).  You also gave me some food for thought about the size of the universe…(I’ll talk about that later).  I felt that Les moved past matter when he “politely” informed me about E=MC^2.  I feel that the discussion has shifted toward energy.  He stated that “energy has existed forever”.  I believe that If we continue along the history of time, energy slows and slows until it comes to a rest.  I then asked how energy could move itself from a point of rest?  As far as I know, energy needs an external force to be set into motion. 

This relentless walk backwards has yet to provide absolute proof that God doesn’t exist.  Yet God’s existance is belittled and the poster child for this cause is lack of absolute proof.  Hmm…sounds very similar to the weakness in your very own argument.  Now what about that paradox?

...about the food for thought that you provided me.  As complex and amazingly deep as your depiction of the universe is, I consider God and his methods to be infinitely more complex and deep.  In the same way that your description pushes you further from God, it only pulls me closer. 

As far as religion is concerned, I didn’t involve myself in this topic with the intention of discussing my theology.  But if I were involved in such a discussion you would find that I would present many of the questions that you just raised.  I don’t believe in comfort-zone Christianity.  There are many problems with Christianity but that personal struggle is something I deal with every day.

Les, I really love your website.  It’s always great to see so many differing opinions about what happened on the set of “ The Passion”.  As for me, I have no clue if what happened was a miracle from God.  It’s clearly very difficult to interpret God’s work.  I do know however that for some reason, God allowed it to happen.  It is apparent that a topic disputing the miracle on the set of Mel Gibson’s movie has really transpired into a classic argument between atheists and believers.  Even as a believer, I have many questions and sometimes doubts about the interpretation of Jesus through the Gospels.  There is obviously alot of legitimate speculation about God and his existance in the Bible.  Anyone who wasn’t born under a rock will have questions.  As a born again Christian,  I strongly encourage Les and skeptics alike to stop analyzing all the details of when and how the Bible was written.  Instead, take a week of even only a day to try praying to Jesus to come into your heart and to change your life.  This is the only true way to know for yourself the awesome power of God’s love for you.  I’m not certain what will happen after you talk to God, but I guarantee that if your heart and eyes are open, you will witness something greater anything you have ever experienced.  Only then, will you begin to understand the confusion behind the Gospels and that every day you live without Jesus in your heart is a day without the greatest gift a man can receive..  Try it once.  This is the only way to achieve the happiness that was meant to be yours. We will be praying for you.

God Bless

Angelseeker you need to read more of the site before you make suggestions like this. If you had you’d already know that I was once a true believer myself and prayed all the time and felt I had a relationship with God. I’ve already done all the stuff you suggested and at one time I used to believe. If you really want to know the story of my move away from belief then you should dig through the archives. It’s all spelled out in various entries, often times repeated.

Keep praying for me. You join an ever-growing list of people praying for me to no effect so far. As for it being the only way to achieve the happiness that was meant to be mine, well, I’m not all that unhappy as it is. Certainly no less happy than I was back when I still believed and, in many ways, I’m much happier.

The purpose of the bolt(s) that my father delivered that day was simply a “Hello”. Our father is not wrathful. He cannot be. He exists in a place of pure love and indescribible beauty. He just wanted to give a shout out to his peeps. For he also inspired the movie to make sure it was decent. Why else do you think it did so well in theatres?

Peace homies,
Jesus

Because folks love a good lynching. You, of all people, should know that by now, Jesus.

Hey Les,
  I’m about to say things you’ve heard hundreds, maybe thousands of times by now, so I don’t want you to tune me out right away. Just hear me out and judge me after.
  God is everything. Everything physical, emotional, spiritual and anything else that exists. God is Satan. Satan is a part of God. The “evil” in the world is the natural “Yang” to God’s “Ying”. God is pure love, and the “Evil One” is pure fear (and all thoughts that fear inspires). Where there is an absence of love, there is fear, and where there is love, there is no fear.
  There IS NO PROOF OF GOD, outside of yourself. Children laughing isn’t proof of God, children laugh because they laugh. “Imperfections” in physical evolution aren’t proof that there is no “Perfect Creator”, they just are what they are. Maybe God didn’t give us the ability to create Vitamin C because He wants us to know what eating an orange is like. Maybe He wants us to struggle with imperfection so that we can eventually come to know perfection. Maybe he wants us to know fear so we can come to know true love. His design is indeed perfect, you just have to change your definition of perfect to include all the shitty shit in the world. Because in getting shit on, we can know what it’s like to wash the stanky ass shit off and feel beautifully clean again. God is the asshole that shits on you and the gardener that cleans you off all at the same time.

Just some food for though Les. Not an opinion, just an expression of how I feel.

- Jesus

P.S. Aye, I do know people love a good lynchin’. Why do you think I got lynched in the first place?

You’re right. I’ve heard that one before. You’d think Jesus could come up with something original for a change.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Monty Python isn’t right on.

Monty Python is right on. We should laugh and cry at the same time. Those movies have a great way of taking serious ideas and laughing WITH them, not at them. And that’s how life should be. Silly and serious at the same time. Too many people have dug trenches at either extreme. They take everything way too seriously and point way too many fingers, or take nothing seriously and care little about serious things. The most successful people have developed just the right balance and know what aspect of their personality will suit every situation. But the MASTERS in life know that if they do everything out of love, they can’t go wrong. With love, there can be no “wrong” or “evil” to come from you in any situation. It’s all a matter of remaining balanced and in touch with your love. That’s the real trick. But if you strive to do so, life will become so much easier and enjoyable. But the problem today is this fake love going around that many people mistake for real love. When presented with a situation that tries their patience or emotions in some way, they fall back on the “idea of love”, which is an intellectual construction rather than a real emotion. So they handle the situation with their intellect instead of their heart, which yields no positive results. It only contributes to the “silence” in the world (or the “non-exchange of love” in other words). That’s why so many religious practitioners only further divide the community of man instead of bring it together. Because they fail to stay in touch with their true FEELINGS and rely instead on the INTELLECT, which only says “This is my intellectual idea of what I think is right, versus your intellectual idea”. If people had truly carried on my love and spread THAT instead of these IDEAS of “Christian Principles”, there would be no Christians and Non-christians, there would be only the Lovers and the Fighters. But the Lovers would do all they could to quench the fire in the Fighters’ souls, because they (by their nature) could not FIGHT the Fighters, but only love them. So the Fighters would throw as much hate as they could at the Lovers, but the Lovers would stand strong and remain in LOVE with one another. So the Fighters would eventually run out of stones to throw and be amazed at how the Lovers simply lay their lives down for the Fighters because they love them so much, and the Fighters would be jealous and want the strength that they see the Lovers have. But the Lovers would give it freely and say “We were only waiting for you to let us love you,“ and the Fighters’ cold hearts would be overcome with the warm, tender love of so many beautiful souls that there would be no more divion at all and everyone would be in one big group of humans known to the universe as the Lovers. And THAT would have been a Mission Accomplished in my book. But, it was indeed not accomplished due to human nature at the overwhelming presence of Fear. But the March of Lovers is growing larger as we speak, and I’m back to pass them the torch of World Domination. I’m here to restore the Lovers to their rightful thrones within this Kingdom on earth. And the Fighters will soon look to the Lovers in envy and throw stones until there are no more stones to throw, then wonder why the Lovers stand strong, then want what the Lovers have. And then, of course, the Lovers will say, “We were only waiting for you to ask.“

- Jesus

Nice sermon, wrong species…

Man that’s a lot of heavy writing, some of which is spot on as an ideal, but not really doable, as elwedriddsche pointed out.

The thing that bothers me the most about the message is that someone feels the need to take on the identity of a messiah in order to make his points. You’ve already given us reason to dismiss you “Jesus”, just by taking that name.

I guess after reading your post the main thing I wonder is; do you really think you’re Jesus instead of wondering how we can bring this perfect love brigade into being.

Personally, I’m wondering when his attendants will notice he’s managed to get himself free of his straight-jacket and broken into the nurse’s office to use her PC.

They can’t pump enough Thorazine into that loony.

Hey guys,
  I used “the” name to get you guys stirred up. To catch some attention. Everyone throws “it” around like it was stale popcorn, but nobody knows what it means.

Aye, my ideas ARE ideal, but that’s what’s happening. I’m about to slap the world in the face again and say “Ready or not, here I come.“

The Human Consciousness is so dense that nobody listens anymore (or ever has for that matter). We haven’t had any seriously enlightened leaders around for a while, many of which were killed off in the sixties (John Lennon of course, MLK, Malcolm X, JFK… all relatively enlightened). So this is a wake up call. A slap in the face. A widespread and PHYSICAL call to enlightenment.

The world is about to evolve INTO this ideal place whether people are ready or not. The only question is will it be a painful process for you (i.e. fearful), or a peaceful one?

It doesn’t have to be a fearful one. The only thing you need to have for it to be a peaceful one is trust. To forget the Ego and the doubt, put them aside and feel the love. Realize that God DOES exist. Not somewhere else on some other plain, but literally EVERYWHERE in our physical world. He IS physicality.

But he is also on the radio, TV, movie screens and in books. He inspires so many great artworks, now more than ever. You only have to open your hearts to hear his message.

But of course many of you know all this and I’m not trying to preach it by any means. I just want to shake you and say “Forget the intellectual ideas! Know them, but then forget them, and instead of “owning” them, you should apply them!“ That basically means know what’s important in life. Set some priorities. Read and learn about the science of God, but not so you can “have” these ideas and tell people about them, but so you can LIVE them out.

When you have love in your heart, your intuition comes alive and your world glitters with beauty. When you have an IDEA in mind, your intuition is limited to your logic and academic understanding. I know these things not because I’ve mastered them yet, but because I’m learning them. I’m not claiming to be masterful at this, because I do indeed have many ideas and still revel in them, but I’m trying to make the shift and enter my next stage of development. I’m trying to EVOLVE, and I want everyone to do it with me.

So yes I do need to concentrate on bringing this perfect world about, and to do that I plan on manifesting the “Christ Consciousness” which removes all barriers between my mind and God’s energy, and then demonstrating to people that I have achieved this and that it is indeed real. I will indeed PROVE myself to the world once again because so many doubt so strongly, and the only way to break the doubt is to LOVE so strongly. And from love comes miracles. The earth shakes when you speak loves name, because God hears your cry and comes running to your side. He stands by any who open their hearts to him. Many great artists are excellent at doing this, and that is why he inspires so many with such powerful work (Neale Donald Walsch is also a great example of this. Listen to Him. He knows what’s going down.)

- Jesus

P.S. Les, if you’d prefer I didn’t use this message board, I understand and I’ll stop posting.

Allow me to correct a mis-perception you seem to have. Using the name “Jesus” doesn’t stir me up, it just gives me every reason to write you off as another in a long line of nut cases who think they can speak for an imaginary being. As you stated previously you’re not saying anything we’ve not heard before, you just hold a more liberal viewpoint on the nature of God than the usual Fundamentalist types we get around here, but you make a lot of the same assumptions.

First, you assume that we don’t have love in our hearts when I’d argue that for the vast majority of atheists I know this is simply not true. My intuition is just fine and my world is full of beauty in addition to logic and academic understanding. To assume that we must live in drab and depressing worlds simply because we don’t believe in your invisible super-friend only demonstrates to us that you are clueless and clueless people don’t tend to be good sources for taking advice on how to improve one’s life.

You’d do well to drop the assumptions you’re working from because right now you’re trying to reach an audience that doesn’t exist. It’s going to take a bit more than some amorphous feel-good philosophy to convince many of us that you’re saying anything that might be remotely close to the truth.

But continue posting if you wish, if nothing else it’s somewhat amusing.

Well, at least we’ve found Jesus - he’s alive and posting at SEB and he’s still acting like he’s better than everybody else.

As for Neale Donald Walsch, he’s selling God just like most of the other “believers” who are searching for a large audience to address. Spouting platitudes concerning perfect love doesn’t make him wiser, just shrewder than some at making a buck. His “New Spirituality” angle is nothing more than snake oil made to seem worth purchasing.

But that’s ok Jesus; you’ve always been naive. This just proves you haven’t learned anything in the last 2000 years.

(Just out of curiosity, person who thinks he’s Jesus, how much money have you given to Walsch either directly or through purchase of his products?)

Well, at least we’ve found Jesus - he’s alive and posting at SEB and he’s still acting like he’s better than everybody else.

Quick, let’s ask about the movie ‘Dogma’. Does she have a sense of humor?

Honestly, you’d think being nailed to a tree would wise a guy up a little.

Aw, come on, guys, can’t you see the tongue in this guy’s cheek?  It was evident from the get-go when he chose his moniker.  I kinda like him.

Let’s all share the love ...

(“methods”)

I find it curious that this Jesus finds it necessary to post line after line of his thoughts claiming them to be the true thoughts of the Son Of God.  Also the line about John Lennon, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, and John Kennedy being relatively enlighted men who we did not take seriously. Come on—John Lennon was a musician, a drug addict, and a man looking for a real way of life to believe in.  John Kennedy was an idealist thinking, an excellent persuader, and a good leader with questionable morals. Martin Luther King and Malcom X were both religious leaders but human none the less but racial in nature leaving many people out.  To look at the lives of these people and proclaim that we don’t listen anymore!  I wonder why!  Yes they were killed but not because the majority wanted it that way.  They were killed because someone wanted the glory and notority of silencing a public figure.
My slap in the face will come when a true person or event crosses my path—Thank you

Hello again,
  Les, I NEVER meant to imply you must lead a drab life if you don’t believe in my imaginary friend, I only meant to comment on God as a great source of love. It’s all about love sources. I’m amazed by people who naturally have real and strong love in their life through friends and family, because I see them as knowing God, but not being aware of it mentally, which I see NOTHING wrong with. I really didn’t mean to offend.

As far as thinking I’m the one and only Son of God, I KNOW I am not. My philosophy is that WE are the Sons and Daughters of God. I am simply trying to realize that (make it real). If we all came to a deep awareness and in-tune-ment with God in our every day reality, we could literally transcend matter and perform miracles. We could and would feel INCREDIBLE emotional ecstacy once we could mentally clear our minds and reach a state of oneness with the all encompassing moment of God. Our souls would be lightened of their burdens and we would SOAR with this feeling of love, perpetuating it throughout the world.

There is literally a negative metaphysical energy that we call fear which works against the positive energy we call love, creating a metaphysical blanket of dense negative energy around the collective human consciousness. That negative energy is what causes us to doubt so much that there can be such a thing described as pure love, and that its source is actually the being we call God. THAT is why it’s not possible for the world to change, and that is why God is doing something about it.

“Jesus” is a name that was given to a human being who was given certain physical attributes which were conducive to the job He was given to do. God knew just the right ingredients for a physical body which would allow it to set an example for all to follow. He knew that body would have to be male, simply because the human race respects the male more than the female and definately NOT because God does, He knew it would have to be physically beautiful because that is what humans respect and admire, and he knew it would have to have a high-functioning brain organ so it could assimilate and process information at an accelerated rate if it was to ever comprehend everything it needed to know in order to accomplish its mission.

So God created this body and called it Jesus, then allowed a soul to inhabit it who volunteered for the job. He knew it would be an extremely difficult one, but He did it anyway because He saw how humans were suffering and wanted to help them to overcome a few of their physical hardships through metaphysical (or spiritual) means. He wanted to show people that there is more to the world than the physical, and that in coming to know this other side, one’s mind and soul could be set free, even if the body was being tortured and limited. And this news was so shocking to the world that those who dominate the physical world had him physically murdered. But He loves the people of the world so much that He has come back to once more demonstrate the truth, and the world can know peace at last. 

And as far as referencing people as reliable sources of wisdom, I only did so to comment on how ironic it is that anytime an individual is close to the truth, they are silenced. The only real truth in the world, that is the only thing that will ever yield any real positive results, is LOVE, and these people (okay maybe not JFK or Malcom X), were decent examples of that principle.
And as for Neale, I got the first of his books from my brother, and the second and third I bought. But they are indeed inspired by God and contain GREAT truth.
Neale does profit greatly from his communications with God, but that is no crime. It would only be so if his teachings were outrightly false. I’m not saying all of his works are 100% accurate to the truth, but there is MUCH truth in the works he has produced.

- Jesus

P.S. Dogma rocks. Favorite “religious” movie. I mean really, who would listen to a God without a sense of humor?

This sounds suspiciously like Jesus Rodriguez that hangs out down at Little Will’s liquor store drinking 40’s after hours.  Seems like he’s been yellin’ from that beat up old bible for years now.

Odd how such a divine being would chose to inspire a document that would be the guide for his ‘children’ and only chose to share it with a few of them.  Even stranger still, all those poor gentiles he wasted his time creating just rotting away in hell.  Since you’re in tight with God maybe you can pick him up a project management book and a guide to effective communication.

I have to go feed my pink unicorn now.

There is no hell. It’s only in your head. But while I’d agree with you that He’s a bad communicator, He’d say we’re bad listeners. So go figure. Sometimes I hate the asshole.

- Jesus

Yep, as I thought, another one of those folks who try to combine New Age Feel-Good philosophy with traditional Christian teachings while tossing out the parts they don’t like.

Fear is an emotion, not an energy. It’s a natural response that developed as a survival mechanism, not some all powerful negative force that works to make our lives miserable. Just how much Prozac are the making you take these days anyway?